Episode #12 - Max Robinson

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing-foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Oh, I don't know. When you're looking to the right, you kind of look like Drake left and no.

[00:00:21] I guess you should write that. Right, this is a line up on the beer. So I just noticed that now. Thanks so much. Oh, I'm actually just thanks for joining me. Man, man, especially with Tom. Tom has been like, feel like it's been like years.

[00:00:45] Yeah, I don't know what the last time we talked is been way, way, way too long. It's like the beginning of wing-foiling this way. It's gonna be talk less. That's back in the day and that's making fun of wing-foiling. Still in, man. Still in there.

[00:01:05] Man, there's some great story between our dynamic, I think. It's like really man, it starts with Tom being like, you know, Max. Like it's the future and like, man, why? Why is it the future? Why? Doesn't do anything else. And like, look where we are now.

[00:01:29] Look where we are now. Yeah, it literally does everything better than everything else. Oh, my God. David. I mean, you're also a big roguie, but I was like, Tom, you're insane. You know what you're talking about? Get this. Get a re-flare your board, man. You get it going.

[00:01:57] You're going to be a real man. So is Tom your the reason Max is on the pro tour right now? Is that what we're here? Oh, yeah. There you go. I'll take all the credit for that. Nothing is good. It's good luck and the stability. No. No. No.

[00:02:16] Tom was the first one. I don't know if you guys have talked about this in the podcast. But Tom was like the first one to basically win. Like within the Eastern, you know, the great legs community.

[00:02:30] Like he was the first one really like winning a lot, I would say. I think I started in, I want to say 2018. I might be off on that in 2019, but I think it was 2018. And that was like when the first year when things were launching,

[00:02:45] it was impossible to get wings unless you got prototypes or lived on Maui. And we ended up getting a prototype, dual tone and a huge fanatic stop with like a really big,

[00:03:00] oh no, we didn't even have a foil with that. I think we were riding a wind foil. Like there's the 1980 for something that, and that's what we rode for the mid summer. I want to say 2018 to the end of that. And then 2019 rolled around.

[00:03:17] And no, so it would have been 2019. Yeah, it would have been 2019. And then there was COVID that showed up. And then obviously all winter, nothing was happening for us because it was all frozen. And then when spring showed up, there was zero gift. Nothing was available.

[00:03:33] It was impossible to get anything, especially anything when related. And somehow managed to get some demo wings. And yeah, as Max was saying, I was riding a wind foil board, which was in the, I wizard 125 at the time, which was just huge.

[00:03:54] Like it's just not the right board for where I was at when winking. And I managed to find a used little surf or board. Like 40 readers or 45 readers or something like that. And I just remember the first session I had on that board. It was maybe 20 or 25 knots.

[00:04:12] And it was basically immediately up on my feet and like whole in these smokes. This thing is going to be nuts. And yeah, I think that's not the thing. It was just like, I, nobody else was winking.

[00:04:25] So I just looked at everybody was like, can't be like, who is this guy? Like what's the deal here? Like it looks so dumb. Like he just keeps swimming and getting washed by waves and kind of watching. And he should be watching. It's like, what is his deal?

[00:04:41] And then slowly it kind of started to catch on. But that session on that 40-liter kite foil board, correct me if I'm wrong, was at sandbags. No, like, I'll go to spot for a wave running.

[00:04:59] I had, I think I had one or two sessions before that on that board at Champagne. It's not like kite foil board. So I had a little bit of the length which is really good. That had been a kite foil board.

[00:05:09] I'm not sure I would have been able to be successful as quickly. But the first first session I had on it, it was just basically quite windy on Lake Champagne and really flat. And it just worked amazing. Like a total mind blowing moment.

[00:05:28] And that's when you knew him and then we were still doubters for like two more years. Basically, yeah, yeah, basically. I was like, I just understand why I'm a thing man. Like it's 20 knots, like, one to go inside. Why aren't you on surfing?

[00:05:48] Like because the waves have no power men and I want to actually ride the waves, that's why I'm not with surfing. Yeah, I'm not going to get that. That's how it started. Yeah, Tom, you got me into it. For sure.

[00:06:02] And I think what's the really cool thing about this board and we have said this before. But it's made, you know, mediocre conditions super accessible and super fun for just everybody. And it's so easy to launch with compared to a kite foil.

[00:06:18] So much easier to deal with than a one-file. It has so much range. It's just, you don't need to think about it. You always put basically the same board, the same foil, the same line that you just go and have fun.

[00:06:30] And that's really what got me at first. I totally remember in the early, the early days being like, you know, launching and always riding the same gear and having one surfers spend half their time deciding if it's going to be four two or four five or five.

[00:06:49] Oh, no, actually the one down is going to be four seven and like guys go sell but it doesn't, you know, the wind surfing just doesn't have the same range and neither does kite surfing.

[00:07:00] So yeah, I think that was a huge eye opener for me and what was possible. And I'm actually really sad that I kind of stepped down before things got interesting when we're because there's so many people doing it now in such a cool community.

[00:07:17] I got a little taste of it when I was back in the great like, so you're a go but. Yeah, it's like fun. It's like the old wind surfing community that was always traveling to like shirts and their sand banks.

[00:07:31] But now it's, you know, three quarters of them are wingers and then there's more people as well, which is cool. It's definitely, there's definitely quite a bit more people now like hitting those spots and you know obviously with John Booth. The catalyst. Yeah, so much energy.

[00:07:51] So I think the water and it's minus two and it's crazy like. They're writing right now. Yeah. Like it's like this season, doesn't end there now. I think that's really, really cool. Yeah, you love it. I still have a February day.

[00:08:15] I know the February day back home still. And like, yeah, everybody. Yeah, but just you know, Chuck John all these guys that are just after it literally every single day. So there. Yeah. Amazing.

[00:08:30] But I think that's actually a really cool segue maybe you can tell us where you are max and like what are you up to now? Because you come a long way from being a really really really good one surfer and laughing at one year.

[00:08:41] And now you're a really really good one year at the back of the day. So what are you saying? Well, well now I'm in Mexico. I'm like I'm training for the next GWA stop in New Zealand and I've got an even nowhere to go.

[00:08:57] That's where I am now. But where it begins, I guess it's still a top. That's what it's all about. I'm going to be an absolute cook. Why aren't you win sir, man? I'm trying to wait right in like 20 knots. Like what's the hell wrong with you?

[00:09:12] And then I'm just like okay well now it's time to try this for myself. Um, no but I mean when I started it was actually in 10 or even.

[00:09:20] So like, uh, it was at one of the last days I was there and 10 or even doing a do a ton of clay actually a clinic for Vincent. Uh, I don't know how to say a lot.

[00:09:31] I'm correctly, um, kind of reef for a bunch of people from Quebec. And so, um, I did a win surfing clinic, um, two different clinics over spent two weeks and then. Uh, the second last day before I was supposed to leave to come home.

[00:09:50] Um, it was really like wind and I think our clinic got ended and I just tried it out for the first time when I was like, I don't really understand why I would ever do. I mean, I went out, I went out, fell, came back.

[00:10:07] So when I felt like he went back fell and I was like, oh man, so we had to drive and I walked up to one of the guys that. I had done a few times before one of the pros all in the guys that trained in 10 or anything.

[00:10:19] He was like, I asked him how long took him to learn how to drive me said one day. So I was like, I have to let him drive now. So I went upstairs. I went straight up through where we were staying.

[00:10:31] What on YouTube, like this like washed a bunch of videos and how to make how to how to drive and I figured how to drive. Um, same day which I was super stoked on. And then I came in and I'm like, he learned how to drive day one.

[00:10:45] I have to learn how to attack. So um, I should actually come back to didn't figure out attack. But it was just like, I was like, oh, it's actually like, you know, this is like if you can win for felt pretty intuitive right.

[00:11:00] So that was the beginning and then I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I'm sick once after that. Like it was like six seven months I just didn't touch it after that trip.

[00:11:10] And if you're going to put a little parenthesis here for people that don't know you match, but um, realistically normal human beings don't drive on the first day when he.

[00:11:19] And actually the pro win surfers he was doing it on the big campaign at the time or just before. Got a ton ton ton of experience when falling. Um, and that's kind of I think what got you, you know, that much success early on.

[00:11:34] And I think that's what helped Luke so quickly as well in myself as well as like a good solid foundation of win falling. That really went a long way especially, um, win surf way for, like that's so predominant and a great like.

[00:11:49] Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean we had you know, you myself Luke we all have quite a bit of time on the foil already. Just kind of felt like, uh, I just felt like a loser win win, win foil really like there just wasn't no mask, you know, connecting.

[00:12:07] Totally. Our power source to our boards and so I've had to be a little bit more agile, I guess, um, through the transitions but it came.

[00:12:16] It came pretty quick and um, yeah, like I was saying that I just didn't touch it for like six, seven months until I actually. Um, spraying my ankle super bad trying to do a push loop win surfing which is basically just a back flip.

[00:12:34] So when I spray my ankle like barely putting any weight on it, um, I've talked to balls and you learn a little bit about, you know, he had an injury that was really similar.

[00:12:45] Oh, you guys got on the podcast one day because he's an amazing amazing stoked people. Yeah. Yeah. And um, he's like, yeah, man, like, strapless strapless foiling of any sources the way to go.

[00:13:00] Um, so that's when I started doing some strapless win foiling and then on top of that it was right at the period when silent sports who is a shop sponsor from Toronto. And like what we needed somebody to start promoting this sport that nobody does.

[00:13:17] It's like, uh, okay, like let's go, you know, so they helped they, something with some gear we did a bunch of drone shoots. Um, in the early days of when they were first getting their first waves of equipment.

[00:13:34] And yeah, so that's when I started just doing a bunch of strapless wing foiling around the great legs we're shooting, you know, once or twice a week.

[00:13:43] Um, and then finally as I started to get healthier is when they got that quad show wing drifter which was like the old team. It was like pretty premium board at the time. And um, uh, then it had straps.

[00:14:00] It was like, oh, like, I haven't to like start trying jumps and things like that. I was, you know, my, and I thought we started feeling a little bit healthier and it's still seem easier on my body than Windsor freestyle for sure.

[00:14:18] And I, you know, I was doing a few jumps on that board like one day I learned a rally in the next day, you know, like 360s air jobs like the first moves that you would learn doing jumps.

[00:14:30] And um, so I'm going to say it felt like within like a day you were doing tricks like he weren't jumping or you're doing tricks with him a day and you can.

[00:14:42] Honestly, like I think what was critical in in the early days of like doing the free so I was just the bigger board and like not being afraid of the bigger foils well.

[00:14:55] I mean, a lot of people and maybe they sway away from it because it can be you know, a lot of weight underneath your feet a lot of weight on the ankles, but I was really used to, you know, wind surfing which is obviously we're out to have a lot of time.

[00:15:10] I mean, we're out to be heavy equipment and it didn't feel any like any more weight underneath my body than that. So you know, the big board made it a lot easier to make mistakes and they get going again big being one 15 at the time.

[00:15:28] Yeah, you know, the I used the Neopide medium slim foil. That's like it's wall 50 I think, you know, short mast and just yeah, this was like okay like that's the start hockey and see what happens and you know, it came pretty quick and came pretty quick.

[00:15:50] I got like, yeah, so that quadruing different one 15 like a five to five meter. Like a five meter wing from Starboard like the OG one, the air rush one and it was like yeah, it was.

[00:16:04] Yeah, decided to come pretty quick and that's right. So anyways, like after a couple sessions on like here went down the shirts and shore is actually I think it was about to get back into wind surfing but it was just like too light for five to there's like just too light for five to win surfing.

[00:16:19] But it was like still pretty proper windy. I brought the wing gear with me and then Adam, what Koiak was there he was always doing a lot of footage with myself. And so I had that one 15 in the mediums the Starboard five meter wing.

[00:16:39] I was like my first time really doing like big really like basically the first day doing railways. And some like big 360s in front of the camera even tried like the ride 360 move.

[00:16:53] And he was filming all of it and so I got all that footage and I was able to make a little real out of it and that's when the brand manager why from St. Shot reached out.

[00:17:07] And he's like hey man, like it looks like you're kind of learning pretty quickly if you want to go on the team. And I was like yeah, I'm all in and I'm super cool.

[00:17:20] I never really expected to you know my first professional contract to be with winging but yeah let's go for it. I'll see where this goes. At the same time it was after that happened.

[00:17:37] It was kind of like the you know one of the reins of pours sort of effects. So the same thing happened with Sabrina and the same thing happened with North and Mystic at the same time.

[00:17:49] So the way up yeah yeah so I'd awake a couple different contract offers but the end of the day.

[00:17:55] And I think I was a right fit for sure and I've been with them now for like two and a half years I think almost two and two years in a bit. And yeah it's like the opportunities is keep.

[00:18:09] Keep growing with this sport like I never expected from those days of being on like the Re4 or 125 leader no straps like having no idea why anybody would do it because it just didn't do anything better.

[00:18:23] So I mean it's like you know jump three times as high as I can on a win server and. Two backflips and fun folks and stuff like that like it just it seems really surreal like I did not expect this at all.

[00:18:37] And yeah I have to apologize to Tom for chirping and so much. So man this sport makes no sense at all. Yeah here we are. It's the pro winner. Yeah. No I mean it's all good to reach every other all of it. Not really. Super fun yeah.

[00:19:04] Yeah but that's cool though so you how many competitions that we've done at this point like I can't keep track if you're like you're. You've gone to a bunch of them this final. Yeah it's some so the first one I ever did was the cut in 20. 21.

[00:19:26] So that was like yeah now just like when is that a year and a half the almost like almost two years it was like April 2021 so it's just coming up in two months. Almost two years. Almost two years crazy.

[00:19:42] And yeah so I did that one then to refund and last year I did the entire tour so in 2021 I did two events. France and to Rifa. And then in 2022 the tour had I believe five events with France. Switzerland lands are latte.

[00:20:06] And I think it's a great gift for Rifa and Brazil. So that's seven events in total. And yeah like like I said the next one is in the azeline.

[00:20:17] Yeah I think I mean every single event will get hard to and it's just like you know it really is something where you have to be fully committed if you want to be able to keep up now.

[00:20:31] So I think I remember that first one in France it was like so your handful of guys could land at 360's man.

[00:20:38] It was the level was so love like and everybody was charging everybody was super stoked at the time but now it's you know everybody who's kind of in that you know in that top to your group.

[00:20:53] You know that's what they're doing. I would say like if they're on the water and they're like a water sports athlete like that you know it's it's the one sport that they're probably doing.

[00:21:03] And maybe they might be doing their old sport like five or 10% of the time but you know most of these guys and girls are like you know they're all in. Well you're trying to have to be.

[00:21:17] Yeah I kind of have to be and I mean as you're saying it just blew up so fast especially the freestyle and aerial aspect of it like I totally blindsided me like to me I didn't see that happening at all.

[00:21:31] And it's just it was you know it went from 360's and six months later everybody's back flipping. How did this happen like so crazy.

[00:21:42] And I you can totally see it watching those early events you're like as you're saying people were you know 360 was like well I think it moves and now I can't keep tracking you're doing minimum doubles now as like kind of standard level. Yeah.

[00:21:59] I think well now they cut the tour from 48 to 32 athletes that can have a seat and event. And like all those 32 athletes like I would say you know if it's a surf freestyle then that has a lot of applications.

[00:22:15] I would say at least half of those people are doing 720's like you're saying like and. Yeah and now it's like and not just seven's what you're saying back folks front flips as well I like becoming a standard move. And it's like okay like what's next you know.

[00:22:37] And I didn't expect that that's why I mean for me like that was the reason why I was like why why would I want to do this like it's not it's not self like when surf freestyle which I could do it in 15 to 16 knots and I super stoked on.

[00:22:51] Still I am but it's. Yeah, it's like. But once the freestyle so like you were everybody was talking away riding as okay cool whatever but you know a rather just go freestyle windsurf maybe like you know hacker couple waves my freestyle windsurf here.

[00:23:12] And that was the freestyle of this sports hard to explode and you know there's sensations beyond nesting the rotation 360 for for example. That's when I think the stoke for myself and I think a lot of the athletes that do it now. It started to rise up.

[00:23:30] And a lot of it was like the innovation and gear too like in the beginning let's be honest like the gear really wasn't there for.

[00:23:37] And I mean, and I mean, I mean the most of the moves at least across multiple brands like maybe a few of the brands had.

[00:23:44] You know how the carbon foils had this smaller more compact boards but thanks for most of the brand that's pretty pretty recent I would say.

[00:23:57] And yeah, that's pretty recent and it's under that I mean and early on I don't think anybody no brand had a board that was small enough wood footsteps and a carbon for and a wing altogether like you definitely had to.

[00:24:11] As you're saying kind of fake countries between different brands and even then I don't think the boards existed I think the only company that was really making small boards early on was a fun and they didn't have footsteps.

[00:24:23] I mean, I think the market just did the market didn't know where it was going to go. I guess I don't know you know like we you know when I got sponsored initially like I.

[00:24:37] There was a ride engine prone for board that I started I was supposed to start with that 35 leaders like there's that was all we had. So I'm letting so that was ended up being the board that gave to Jeremy.

[00:24:53] There's a team made of mind but he's now he's focusing on bigger kidding but you know he got like it's. Yeah, and then we've now we have a full line like every size.

[00:25:07] A board that you could possibly need to be able to you know to be able to do free style in winging as well or way fighting with straps or whatever but yeah even when I started it wasn't like you know. I want to make this.

[00:25:25] It weren't fast it weren't really.

[00:25:28] And you have access to everything just do you guys like how does that kind of component of it work for all of you riders today just bring all the equipment you guys get to kind of swap trial the stuff all the time where.

[00:25:40] Are you talking about here in Mexico now like as I'm. As you're training or yeah like I for a lot of us we have no idea how that pro world works. Could you give us maybe a bit of a bit of a peak behind the curtain.

[00:25:56] Yeah, for sure. So I'll tell you what it's like here in Mexico and then if you want to ask any questions about like. The equipment that I'm allocated is something that let me know but sure your Mexico like for instance why it has.

[00:26:12] And resort called Pro Win surf lava antenna we joke because I'm pretty sure that that D is going to replace with a G pretty soon but. Yeah, anyway so like we.

[00:26:27] So now it's basically sling shots winter headquarters when it comes to testing equipment so during the summer everybody is in hot river Oregon it's you know.

[00:26:39] I'm a lot of people listening this probably know the gorge which is the Columbia River gorge super windy there and sling shot has their headquarters literally right beside. The river it blows you know like close to 30 knots from I don't know basically all year but it's more similar.

[00:26:59] Yeah, from June to like October. Um, I made a October and then during the winter a lot of the people from such a headquarters they come here to to live in 10 on Mexico. And so on the water.

[00:27:16] Uh, sorry, um, so basically in just down right beside the water. Uh, why it has all of his gear like all the equipment from basically all the years at St. Shots been you know making foil boards just unrax.

[00:27:35] As well as foil's in his garage and so and also all the prototypes and stuff that people are hoping to test down here that stuff is just brought down by the.

[00:27:50] By by like some of the engineers or just team riders that are staying in Hood River and we just basically swap the equipment out test everything like.

[00:28:03] For instance, we have a bunch of new front wings that we need to testing a bunch of new wings that we need testing a bunch of new wings that we need testing.

[00:28:09] Hand wings and foil front wings and so now it gets confusing everything being called the wing now.

[00:28:16] But um, yeah, so that's kind of the process we're going to do right now this winter and so definitely like really like I mean not even trying to plug it like the new gears really great.

[00:28:28] Um, and so I'm super stoked about what's coming from from kind of our our new equipment that will be coming out next. Yeah, um, next fall.

[00:28:40] Um, but that's just kind of how it is like it and I think that's how the cycle works here every year so people are testing in the hood river throughout the summer. And then once a cut and it's always just working on new things new things new things.

[00:28:57] And it really does the stop there. I think they're typically working about two to an half years ahead. So like if we're you know once 23 23 hits, they're thinking they're working on 2025 summer, you know. So yeah, so we're not that stuff not isn't necessarily being tested at that point.

[00:29:17] So it's a lot of time, let's say it's 2023 you're testing 2024. But um, what they're working on is you know two and a half three years ahead a lot of time. So okay.

[00:29:28] And so you're you're doing this pretty much full time then like like throughout the year as you did all of 2022. How much time was allocated to all of your kind of responsibilities I guess for this cool job.

[00:29:44] Yeah, so my job is a little interesting beyond actually just being a competitor on the tour like that was so my contract this year has me allows me to 10 mostly events on tour, which is awesome. And that's where I'm putting most of my focus.

[00:30:03] Okay, but I'm also here doing a little bit of testing. But and then on top of that, I'm also medium managing sing-short wing and a sing-short wing team.

[00:30:17] So everybody who is the team rider basically just you know I work with everybody to make sure that the contents on point we schedule our posts everybody's posting on different days or not. Basically, clumping, pumping the gram with the same thing.

[00:30:35] So we, yeah, so it's a really cool job because ultimately it's just basically just working with all of our team getting everybody and like being stoked everybody about their new content and new moves and.

[00:30:47] I mean a resharing post and making sure that you know, sing-short wing is seen as much as it possibly can be and that's that's like for me it's just it's thought like organic to take on the role and when I propose the idea to my the brand manager why it.

[00:31:04] And so it's been pretty seamless so far I mean we're like two weeks in so this is for early days now. Pretty fresh but everybody's been really on point. I hope it stays that way. You know, but yeah, it's just basically I'm your accountability buddy.

[00:31:28] You got to make sure you're posting on your day. Wait a second, max, so that means you have to be on time all the time. Yeah, I got to be on time and we were like. I got to be on time.

[00:31:44] And it's like six months later man, you know, Max, you ready for that podcast. Yeah, we're covered. We're covered. Yeah, that's cool though. Yeah, it is cool and it's cool to see it develop as well with them. Well, the athletes is charging and making content as well.

[00:32:07] So yeah, so that's like that's a stitch for real like it's the other tour making sure everybody's on point with my mini-imagining. Testing some product here and then you know there's going to be the tour. It's crazy. It's 13 events this year.

[00:32:24] And it starts in New Zealand then right away we have to fly. We have to allow us to. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry you have to. Yeah, right now. So sorry, this New Zealand then we go to keep ready.

[00:32:40] Okay, which looks amazing to be honestly like the way they look so sweet. It looks a little bit like it's going to be dangerous to wing but let's go whatever. And then after that I said, I think there's a place it's close to Puntipata.

[00:32:56] I just did like see I can find it really quick. I just we had a meeting with the riders committee just a few days ago and yeah, it's a. Kalinta Funda or Santa Maria. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:33:17] So I don't really know the spots. I've done my research yet, but yeah, it's not when it. Yeah, that's good. When you better would be. Right. I'm going to do this like a big slow. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:34] I think most most pros that ride up like that, that spread at the end of going with two three kids and they all get demolished out here just for a couple pictures right. Yeah, that's kind of a synosis.

[00:33:46] I think that's a win surfing to on the top right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're like we're trying to like ride ways and stay in critical sections and then like. You know, like we mess up.

[00:34:00] That's you know, that's that's a board gone for sure probably a wing as well. Yeah, you know, so I don't think that's going to be that. That is one thing that I have to say is a bit of a job act with the winging is that you really.

[00:34:14] And mess up on a critical wave because if you do, you like for me anytime. I've really blown it on a critical kind of section and with a little bit of size in the wave, the wing is just dead. Like, nothing to do.

[00:34:28] The boy goes into it and your does. Like. Yeah, well, I see right, like I feel like as much as the swirl running. The swirl running and maybe like not so critical ways is really fun. Like to really push the sport.

[00:34:43] You want to be able to go into those critical waves. But at the same time, and you do that, you know, that's the could be at the cost of equipment.

[00:34:51] A lot of time it could be a big cost for equipment and you saw that and like the last of them in Brazil. You know, we're in Taiba.

[00:34:59] It was hard to get for me to even get to the short break when they did, you know, to actually have a high scoring way to you have to push. Push pretty hard into, you know, close to the beach.

[00:35:12] And a lot of the time, you know, people might may have gone for an aerial, my stuff. We got pushed to closer shore, hit a rock, you know, fall, fall, fall in a critical section and they're winged.

[00:35:25] It just, you know, they come up and their wings into it's just, you know, that's part of it right now. Which is good.

[00:35:34] It's going to be interesting to see what all these new materials do for that because I know when surfing was kind of like that for a while as well.

[00:35:40] And we got, and they kind of have the way you're pretty dialed at this point where you can get washed pretty seriously. And as long as you hold onto your hip up really, you're pretty good shape.

[00:35:51] But there was a while there where, you know, before skin masks and before X-Li and all that kind of things like everything which is below up. Like, you couldn't handle it. Yeah, this is like everything was monofil and then everything was falling apart.

[00:36:09] So, but yeah, I haven't had that. I'm pretty lucky. Maybe I'm not charging hard enough. I don't know, but like, in Tiber, I was pretty lucky with my wings. And I think like the materials are getting there. It's just, you know, like at the same time too.

[00:36:25] I get, you can't stop a foil from going through your wing unless you fall in a certain way and things like that are not up and with everybody, you know. No matter how strong the material is.

[00:36:38] So those are just like the risks that are going to kind of continue to pop up as the level gets higher. We push them where like, normally conditions and we'll see what that turns into.

[00:36:50] Like, I don't know, it's even for me was it was tough because I literally was like, I didn't ride waves. I don't know what I was doing basically now, but I mean, that something that happened to focusing on at all and this time here the last,

[00:37:06] they've made really the last few weeks and maybe like, colder high shoulder high sets. It's been super fun like I'm really falling in love with it more than I have with any really almost any discipline, which is crazy to say.

[00:37:24] But it's just like the deal to, you know, go out come back fish basically doesn't have to be the best best set and still have like a blast, you know, making tons of turns.

[00:37:37] It's just, you know, it's like what other sport can you do that with right now, right? So.

[00:37:44] Yeah, especially in those conditions, you know, like you can if you have like a really stellar set up and citing and when surfing, you can have a very similar that actually say a better experience and like really really stellar setups.

[00:37:58] But I mean, you can count those places on two hands, you know, where that happens and never mind happens regularly.

[00:38:05] So I think at the end of the day as much as, you know, for me, you know, way when surfing, floating rise just the pinnacle of wind sports like waves.

[00:38:16] But it just doesn't line up that often for it to be good whereas swinging just turns everything into super fun.

[00:38:24] You know, good. It's like, if weing was, you know, you think it is like let's say when surfing 10 out of 10 like you're with winging it might be eight out of 10, but you're going to entertain, you know, four or five days and a lot. Yeah, exactly.

[00:38:42] So, I think that's not a good, like twice a year. Exactly. But the thing is like, I would say the same thing like doing a bomb turn going to a critical section hitting the lip on a wind surface.

[00:38:53] Or at least when it comes to wave riding is just definitely tops here. It's like definitely top here.

[00:39:01] It's for me also still the most fun way of riding for sure, but laying is yeah, it's just, it's just so like the other days on I was on a 700's and music or fun wing.

[00:39:16] It's like a nice, I knew set up that was just like really really stoked on. And it was just wave after wave.

[00:39:23] It's like fully felt like, you know, the surreal flow state mode, like disowned into this, these amazing conditions and it just kept coming out, wave after wave, you know?

[00:39:35] And I think that's going to happen a lot more for a lot of people in this sport that it's worth surfing for sure. I think it's going to allow a whole group of people who are either a pushing too hard wind surfing where they could have gotten hurt.

[00:39:52] Now they're going to be able to push winging, but it also opens up the door to like foot high waves that you can still ride on the right foil and you can get a second or two a glide and like that stuff was not as accessible.

[00:40:09] I think it's going to bring a lot of joy to a lot of people, especially because it's booming so quickly. And our demographics of our podcasts like we check the other day and it's a lot of our listeners are between 45 and 60.

[00:40:22] So kind of that age or retirement kind of thing and there's a lot of people looking for something to do, something that's exciting, something that allows them to travel.

[00:40:33] Something that you can do with the family, like there's so many opportunities at this sport is allowing people to have. And it's just cool that that demographic is like popping up near 60, like you're not.

[00:40:46] There's a lot of people who are still charging at 60 when surfing but you could probably wing till year well if you can walk you could wing. Yeah. Like we're good till night.

[00:40:59] That's the thing, I think the wipe out still can be kind and gnarly with winging so like if you're on flat. Oh, there's the listeners like just be careful while you're getting into it make sure you say that again, Tom, you say.

[00:41:12] Oh, as I said that that as long as you're you're respecting the conditions, so if you're on like a flat water bay and like. You're not like, yes, the wipe out's candy, but if you've got 30 40 years of experience under your belt.

[00:41:28] Your wipe out will be a lot more well you'll follow a lot last after 40 years. Yeah. Yeah, if you're like, do you watersports personally you're coming to winging I think like for sure you know.

[00:41:43] I'm going to super gnarly I think it will be a bit more and two but still this definitely. Take it easy in the beginning once you start to look at it learn the foil first.

[00:41:53] What's that happens and for sure I think you can do it for a long time. Especially if I think I do think I'm actually saying though there are you know once you start getting into jumps and rotations and stuff like that you can definitely.

[00:42:07] You know there's a reason everybody almost is wearing helmet doing it and yes, if you look at all these athletes. If they were citing or when surfing before they weren't really wearing helmets but a lot of winners are wearing helmet when they're giving free stuff.

[00:42:24] And personally, you know I think because free style and jumps are so accessible winging compared to when surfing for example.

[00:42:33] I felt more inclined to try it whereas something that wasn't ever really my focus when surfing and so I've actually had some pretty decent flimes winging like much more so when surfing.

[00:42:46] Just because it's easier to get up you know easier to spin around easier to get yourself into bad position though.

[00:42:54] Is that to our standard that you have to wear a helmet now on tour okay I think it's pretty cool I like that so I was training with them anyways but yeah like I'm taking some big stacks. Like and I think.

[00:43:14] Yeah I mean like I'm getting into all the time ankles like right now I can't jump because I was toast brain.

[00:43:21] And that's the reality that I was a sportsman to escalate you know watch citing like I don't know if you watched the king of the air this year but it's like everybody's doing like double loops and now there's as loops as well and it's like it and the height is absurd.

[00:43:38] And people yeah like the people that putting their lives on the line like inciting for sure I don't know about winging for like inciting. Oh yeah. Citing like a loopy they're going.

[00:43:52] Yeah and so make a mistake at a height or critical mistake at a height like you could I you know so it's like that's where we are right now with like with extreme wind sports and I don't know if Williams gonna get there but like for sure it's.

[00:44:08] I would think so I mean winter thing is there as well like you know there's bruised that almost died trying to triple. It really wasn't far off and like the amount I remember chatting with.

[00:44:23] And I'm trying myself and and bruises there as well and they're kind of talking about you know getting jumps and double stuff like that and they were talking about you know getting.

[00:44:33] And my lead can cost you not really knowing where they are on a fairly regular basis learning how to double like you. That's intense. Yeah. Yeah. Tom how's your front foot attorney going front loop journey going when surfing. Oh I gave up on that ship a long.

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[00:46:14] I think it was totally doable I was like you know how to actually committed to doing it I don't think there would have been any issue there but I just been so concentrated on waves for so long and then when you came by and totally distracted me from when to then.

[00:46:34] I mean I want to like somebody who just like was OG what's it has it lost any of the stars you or you or that's still the thing you're doing the most now and are you doing it all for you.

[00:46:45] So my the because of you know other projects that I have going on right now I'm actually not spending a lot of time at all on the water and it's something that I want to change because I'm really missing it.

[00:46:59] I have to say that it as much as winging opens up conditions that are you know more mediocre in terms of them and to super fun.

[00:47:11] I do feel like it's going a little bit the way that when surfing went for me where you know eventually you kind of you are looking for those better conditions and you're always wanting to kind of push and.

[00:47:23] You're way as much as a little more in love of our selling one win but yeah bigger ways and so I do think that. I'm kind of natural progression is that in the first year I was just so to be on the foil.

[00:47:38] I was just so stoked to be able to ride around and see all the freedom of winging and you know pump pump through the laws and just all that kind of aspect of it and then after that you know being able to ride and look we're saying wanted to flip little swells river swells and like oh my goodness actually lighting away in one to all like how this happens.

[00:48:01] And then. And then you know as time goes by you're kind of get disynthedized I think a little bit it's kind of like when you're riding big ways a lot of certain points you don't feel like big ways and it was just feels like riding way so.

[00:48:19] I do think that the natural progression of everything is that it becomes you know for me anyway it seems like it becomes more normal and so. You keep hunting I guess what I'm trying to say. I think that's what I think a lot of the people.

[00:48:41] The goal anymore it's like getting like just cruising back more than the foil like it's not the going more for yourself. I think that's what's I will. And I think a lot of people. I'm not going to be here and proving so much.

[00:48:59] What's cool though with the those different between that and when surfing is like you can get up on the foil and mediocre conditions like you can get.

[00:49:09] And yeah, leaning and moving in six to eight knots right so you didn't have that before early and now that we do. I think it's still like. Yeah for sure like where people are going to go and start to get picky but.

[00:49:26] About day is still pretty solid day compared to how it was before. So I think that's what I totally agree and I and I think especially in dusty conditions because you know a lot of a lot of the foil talk.

[00:49:43] It's kind of like wow we can go out and super light winds you know like under tenauts so fun blah blah blah but the reality and a lot of these in landspots is that.

[00:49:52] The wind not actually that light it's just crazy gusty and so if you have you know six gusting to 16 knots.

[00:50:00] That's also on the winter like you can't really do anything you stop in the laws and then the gut is your overpowered is you know some massive sale to get going and and you know.

[00:50:11] But on winging you can ride a wing that you can get going in the 15 not gusts you can be on a little fingerboard with like a four or five or five oh and you keep going through the laws you know burn right through it especially with these faster soils that are more efficient.

[00:50:28] And they're coming out these days so yeah totally and I think there's definitely. Still has it's a little hard to go out when there's basically no wing wind and just cruise around. And just you know there's no load on your body just so cool.

[00:50:49] And I can be like. Well yeah I think I'm going to have to start setting you a daily challenge if you're bored because there's that. Thousands of things like a tack and giant variations. As well as you would do it.

[00:51:03] I would love to be bored right now and I would love to take up those challenges because we super find and so not bored right now. But you're busy building.

[00:51:16] Yeah, when your house is done when your water house is done though like that thing is going to be. Oh, the channel and all the challenges. Yeah, I love it. I'm on the side of your way. It's all.

[00:51:31] And even better show up and I'll post you on my floating wing platforms. Oh my god. I'm all in. We're both as dirty here. I'm on the table. After on the table, you can all hold me accountable for it. That's what you all man. But I'm. Wow.

[00:51:58] Like here. I don't know if that's going back to your. Yeah, let's go back to your tour here. I want to kind of like New Zealand number one, Calbo second. Do you want to just walk through those other two or dates for us and our listeners?

[00:52:11] Yeah, for sure. So having over the down here is New Zealand first, then Cabo France, then Greece early June. So there's a gap like almost a two month break after France, which is April 4th to 10th to Greece,

[00:52:27] which is the 6th of June to the 11th of June. And we have the mall dives from the 16th to 23rd of June. And then it gets kind of crazy. So there's three. I can really tell up and go that. It's it's it's yeah, it's it's not so.

[00:52:47] I mean already. More creative is three surf freestyle slash surf song big air events back to back in the canaries. So first it's like in the beginning of July,

[00:52:59] basically to the end of July, it's lands are out to Grand Canyon area and then four to venture all back to back like family any time in the town. And then so and then right after that like a week later is Rio. I think.

[00:53:19] And then three weeks later there's Denmark and then. Which is like the beginning of September and then that late September there is. Doc La Morocco. And then. So that goes in the first October and then 10 days after that, there's the trees going pro.

[00:53:43] And then there is Taiba which is a month after the Typhoon, and then the next day, there's a lot of things going pro and Brazil in November and then Kate town. Which is still not on the sides.

[00:53:58] A lot of these aren't confirmed but when I was talking to the guys on their eyes committee they were saying. This one is probably the least likely and that's supposed to be in December.

[00:54:08] So it's it's pretty absurd like like I said it's really proper full time like they're the breaks in between the events. You know after France is is six weeks before after start flying it out again.

[00:54:22] So and then every other event you know the dates are so tight that the flights are going to be basically backed back to the next the next place. So I really like right behind. Back in Toronto. You know short-stint August and then maybe a short-stint in October.

[00:54:46] Months to be there. Yeah, yeah. You've already been seeing you there too. But yeah, you can see on this. I hope I better be seeing you there. It's the best month. And it's a good month.

[00:55:03] Yeah, and it's I noticed a lot of a lot of a lot of names and a lot of dates but that's they check it out. Wing for a world tour dot com slash events.

[00:55:15] And you can see all the event dates, all the ones that are actually confirmed on the website.

[00:55:21] I mean, I mean, you guys a little bit inside scoop if you want like I got to say them on the where I just committee and so we do talk about the events and kind of what they.

[00:55:30] The odds of them actually happening are I don't know when this parkhouse comes out but. Most of them are really likely the ones that aren't are the mall dives and. And Cape Town and roads.

[00:55:44] But a lot of these are super likely and I think that's just crazy even more crazy. It's like not just like one to I thought this 14 events scheduled it's like 14 stocks for people.

[00:55:59] 14 stocks across the group with most of them actually likely being confirmed like well and so I'm already.

[00:56:09] Yeah, so you have ever thought would you have ever thought you would get to see some of the best like wind spots in the world like before you know Tom kind of strong arm you into this like really shabby sport.

[00:56:24] And what's the thing I think that I know I know it's still. I remember well, the thing when I got the offer I'm talking Tom first I was like a Tom and like.

[00:56:37] I don't know man, I got to kind of surreal like you think this is going to be something that you know I can. I should continue to do anything to push you know like shit.

[00:56:48] I think I was kind of like a conversation like this like it, you know like. This is happening like I don't know like what do you think about the sport and it was a conversation with the phone. I was driving a little shirkstone to win surf. And.

[00:57:03] You just like, yeah, man, you're getting in early and it's really the future. That's kind of what I remember from that conversation. I was like, okay. Yeah, you were like right at the right time. Right. Perfect.

[00:57:18] And you dedicated so much time into it and I mean you're super talented. So that's like you need that for sure, but you put in so much time and you're really there at the right time. Yeah, I'm super stoked if it's helped turn out.

[00:57:32] Yeah, I think we all are. Yeah, we all are. Thank you guys. Yeah, I didn't. I really didn't expect like professional win sports. Create a be with Duke wing but. Whatever man you never know. It's um and yeah, this all these like talking about the two or like.

[00:57:54] I mean for instance, last year being able to go to all these places. I only dream about going to. Win surfing, you know, and it's kind of crazy not bringing the wind surf gear a lot.

[00:58:05] But like for instance, going to Brazil, like going, you know, being a couple hours away from Jack the Korra. And a place called Patacuru and Taiba which was like, you know. The 15 to 20 knots every day and just perfect little kicker waves and it's just like, you're just like,

[00:58:25] Wow, like, and I would see these videos of these guys win surfing these spots and going nuts and doing like air cab or koochi is which are just. Yeah, I mean yeah, you have to look that one up. If you want to understand what it is.

[00:58:41] But it was so cool to see and I was always dreaming about going to this place.

[00:58:48] You know, to win surf and then, you know, to have the opportunity just to be there and see all these places that I had only dreamed about going especially like Jericho Brazil for instance.

[00:59:02] And then, so I'm going to say, you know, and then also like a big one where I've been seeing the last two years of the bunch of the pros that do the.

[00:59:11] You know, do the IQ foil event was silver plana which was like, so real beautiful, you know, and I just yeah, I feel super super lucky because I did not expect any of this and now it just seems like it's.

[00:59:28] You know, there's just going to be more opportunities and I, you know, I really just this year as much as it's, you know, these opportunities are super amazing. I do also really, really want to do really well.

[00:59:39] So on top of having this crazy opportunity to travel the world like I really want to focus super hard and get a and get good results and do the best I can. So.

[00:59:51] That's that for all of us. That's yeah, you know, and actually be able to ride away rather than straight line it so. So yeah, yeah, I'm going to make this happen. It's very, very well deserved. Yes, roller coaster for sure lots of spray and ankles.

[01:00:16] So what do you, um, do you have any tips for people getting into freestyle like how do you set up your gear and what do you do to avoid injuries like what can you do. And I think you can get people. Really good question. So I would say.

[01:00:36] Getting into freestyle when it comes to setting up the footstraps. You know, I personally especially it once you've kind of gone your jumping down you feel comfortable with the size of border using you can actually make this trip.

[01:00:49] I just have to say a little bit narrower so that your foot sits. In the footstrap but also gets pinch a little bit on the sides.

[01:00:58] So when you do your areas, you know you're not going to lose the board because you can feel the board wrapped around your foot, not just the top section of the strap going over your foot.

[01:01:08] That is what ball does a bunch of the, you know, Wesley a bunch of the pros, especially the ones from wind surfing and I feel it helps a lot with board control.

[01:01:21] Be careful if you don't sit them up right, however, you can have one footstrap get stuck in the board and it's happened to try to mind recently and you can you can touch your twist your ankle, but I personally find it's better to fall and make sure that you have those that cinch those footstrap.

[01:01:37] cinching the size of your feet in a way that you don't lose the board at all. And so at least for the small, like your first maneuver is for sure you don't have much to worry about.

[01:01:51] And then I just have to go bigger and smaller, I think it's, you know, it's even more relevant like now I'm using a 50. And I can crash with my feet in the footstrap, no problem and I don't you know I'm with spray and ankles I'm totally fine.

[01:02:08] So I say that's a big one when it comes to footstrap foil like it's you know you don't really change much is not if you have a balanced foil it's fine you can even move a little bit further forwards so that you have a bit more fun foot pressure.

[01:02:23] And that just allows you to have a bit more spring on the take off but a neutral foil position is fine. I like a wide stance now for a little bit more control as well.

[01:02:38] And yeah, I think that most of it, I mean when it comes to the size of the foil is super important to say like if you end up jumping with something there are like. 124 hundred and the beginning it's okay.

[01:02:54] But you'll notice that like once you start to kind of build your level performance you're going to want to use something smaller so less likely to break and you'll be able to go a little bit higher and faster in the moves.

[01:03:09] But in the beginning I would say like it's okay to jump those 1500 CM squared foils. Yeah, just feel it out first like do some straight errors and then like you feel like you're landing in the photos and feel like it's throwing you into what could potentially.

[01:03:28] You know, because for twisted ankle or to. And maybe go for a rally or go for 360.

[01:03:38] And those are kind of the first moves that most people will go for and there's so many videos online now, it's time people have to do that I won't I won't go for you guys or that kind of stuff but.

[01:03:49] Yeah, like having you know a board that's around the same size in leaders as your body weight to like for me I feel like I was a go to for me that I didn't have to continue to always crawl up onto my board after every year time like I could make a couple.

[01:04:07] You couple mistakes and then you know still kind of save it a little bit so not going too small to soon was I feel like really beneficial for me in the beginning for those early. For the more basic maneuvers.

[01:04:24] And then as I started to like wanting to push more radical moves that you have to go smaller like you can't be doing like you know 10 foot high front foops on a nine new leader board it's is you know definitely a cause for disaster as much as I was like Tom why you need to go so small.

[01:04:49] I'm not going to make it. What does make it sense now like now yeah for sure going with a smaller board. Smaller foil you know. Smaller floor hand wing once gets starts to get really windy you have to.

[01:05:04] Beginning yeah I'm not really close I was doing 360's with a 150 meter board to start and then went to a 90 liter 90 liter wing class in the same shot. It was perfect for my first like you know it would have been perfect for my first 360's.

[01:05:20] And free style maneuvers and then I used like the fan town in 96 front wing which is 1250 c on square approximately.

[01:05:30] And surface area and those are great culmination like it was perfect to be able to start doing some some free style and I was saying whatever's equivalent to somebody else and in their body weight.

[01:05:42] You know it's like somebody's you know 70 kilograms they get on the 70 liter board and maybe a 1000 100 CM squared front wing 82 CMS for a little bit more control. You know it's yeah you know that will be a recipe for success for sure. Okay.

[01:06:02] I definitely found that having a bit of that board around your weight is a really really good thing for learning free style moves.

[01:06:11] I have very little experience in free style and very much a coupe and free style and it's so like you know just on the landings it would forgive so many errors.

[01:06:19] Whereas before that I scared of spraying ankles so I would just use my little board and I could feel the rotation the easier for sure but I would have to log it perfectly otherwise there's no way. It was going to work. Yeah totally. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:06:38] Like I'm glad like you're going to talk some of your big believer in the small boards and obviously like it is the way to go once you get a session but for learning like.

[01:06:48] For sure I would not have learned as many moves as I have but if I did jump too soon. Um, but anyway yeah and now it's just like the moves that are going to be scoring high on the tour or just the ones you have. Words were like.

[01:07:04] It was the early days like it got still beyond my 75 and I'm the leader board a lot. But now I can't really use much bigger than a 70 or I'm not going to be able to keep up with these 16 year olds that are doing you know, installed front flips.

[01:07:21] Yeah. Yeah, cadence coming for you and we had them on a little while ago and the stuff that 13 year old can do is going. He's going to come shopping at a lot of the holes I think. Yeah, he's gone. Yeah, he's been back of both ways.

[01:07:41] You know his just these are super stylish and thinking about some sevens on him too. Why? Oh yeah, he's talking about his training is like yeah, I just go out and like I tell myself I have to at least choose. 720s on every tack.

[01:07:56] You guys are like you're 13, dude. Like what's going to happen when you're 25, you know. Wow. I think it'll be super fun to see. That's the very side of five years. Yeah, those like Chris, you know, like Chris is actually here in Laventaine.

[01:08:13] Chris McDonald, he was fourth on tour this year. And I'm a senior in the hood river like this year and a half ago on the game. Like at the AWS side, which is like a trade show for all the water sports brands or wind sports brands.

[01:08:28] And he was just like, I'm like, oh man, when you go on a tour, he's like hopefully soon like this kid with high voice like 14 like you know, ever. Super small and then I see later that year. He went to Brazil.

[01:08:42] He's crushed it and then he just the next year. He just kept on getting better. And you know, now he's for sure one of the best wing follows in the world arguably, you know, definitely talk a top three rider most of the most time most of the time.

[01:09:02] And the first guy to land a probably a relatively dry 1080, you know, it's crazy any six times. So I mean, yeah, we're going into three rotations now and it's like. It can and it's still not so much for real like it's it's.

[01:09:22] I mean, if with kickers for sure, 1440 is possible, like, you know, guys going full charge out of ramp and Maui 1440 for sure is possibly.

[01:09:32] Yeah, it's like it's just like that what we're talking about like just how far are we are you know how quickly and how sooner people going to be playing the lives and I guess.

[01:09:46] You know, it's like, yeah, really want to be going full tilt at like what like triple overhead waves 30 knots and then trying to do for rotations like I don't know what it's gonna look like.

[01:10:01] King of the wing is coming here and I heard that first that's for sure. Yeah, it's definitely heard but that's what happened. Still working right it's like 1440 is now it's like we're doing what 1880. It's crazy. It's not and it's like snowboarding. So I can even control that like.

[01:10:26] I don't know man, like I have a self-time with seven silly, you know, so I mean, I don't know. You're asking me wrong. You're going to get enough. Yeah, I get that.

[01:10:39] Yeah, I mean the 10 I don't know when but for sure, I was over rotating some 7's recently, but not a purpose. Yeah, I'm so yeah the 7 is coming for sure. The 7 is.

[01:10:53] It's okay, but the 10 I don't know when but I want home in mind Wesley is on two or he's on do a tone team and he like he's a second guy.

[01:11:03] I think to be like throwing them down and where they're looking clean like they look like he's getting the full rotation of the year and I feel like he's going to be able to to play an out of one actually pretty soon which is really cool.

[01:11:14] I haven't seen anybody properly playing out on a one. Crystal's dry but still wasn't planning. I think Wesley might get the first planning on which is crazy to think, doing them on flat water. Yeah, so that's where it's at man. Real. Well, hey, Chris.

[01:11:37] Yeah and thanks for just hopping on and chatting with us and for those people at home that want to learn a bit more about you or start following you. Yeah, how are you the best of follow me on Instagram.

[01:11:50] So it's at max j like the letter and Robinson to R O B I N S O N. And the I like that's I'm posting monster twice a week. Okay, but yeah also like fall to do a good events.

[01:12:08] You know, like I'm trying to attend most of all in this year. And yeah, I appreciate all some work. Yeah, it's an actually thingshot way. Got some new stuff in the pipeline and pre stoked about to get some new stuff dropping shit soon from sing shot.

[01:12:28] Which is probably using the sewer right now like the go to is the javlin for sure. Javlin in the G 700 900 CM square front wing and the wing crafts V 250 and 60 liter and 70 liter.

[01:12:45] Those are those are my go to pieces of equipment at 90 to 95 kilograms, believe it or not, but yeah like 1215 knots and that that kids doing the job for me.

[01:12:59] So yeah, so I'm getting into freestyle one of starting the one to push that that gears work and see for me so definitely higher recommended. At the can you give us any boiler. Can you give it any boiler for what's in the pipeline?

[01:13:17] Oh, we have I will give some spoilers. I don't know if why's going to get mad but whatever. Yeah, we got a so we got like this hang here downwind air wing such way riding wing front wing.

[01:13:36] For the foil I just like I have no idea what we did but it's just it's so fluid through the water it glides forever somehow it still turns and so it's sick it does does everything well and you're like, let's just compromise if you just don't know.

[01:13:52] And I just like I love we haven't found it.

[01:13:56] Yeah, we have found yeah I mean I'm not jumping it and I don't know if we can I don't know if it's something that because it's like the aspiration all that I don't know if it's something that I will jump or should jump so maybe that's the compromise but you could jump it if you weren't like 100 kilograms maybe I don't know.

[01:14:14] But yeah, it's just I'm sorry. I'm not gonna let you know. Yeah, the stuff I'm riding now.

[01:14:25] Like the same shot it's really robust like Tommy used around in the nose so it's stuff is it's holding up really well for sure like there are things that are breaking you know after a bunch of free stuff sessions for sure as is how it's going to be but quite robust stuff now and.

[01:14:42] Yeah, but then like the that is super awesome I think like you know it's a it's a year out but like for sure like. You know the next. That's a media mask like when I'm yes. What's that?

[01:14:59] It's that's a media mask big thing you're talking about I'm yes. Yeah, media. Media. Yeah, I want like the one that's like first while riding and stuff and XC. Yeah, we can well that's like the mid-high mid-high. More of more than that. Yeah, and then also the.

[01:15:21] So there's that was a new tail that also just on top of that is just like it's like the perfect combination. And then there's. Yeah, and I mean I've like obviously some new hand wings that were developing which are.

[01:15:36] I can't say anything about those those about two boats like you know that's the one thing I shouldn't talk about and those are. Those are really on point there's one that. Okay, I'm really, really excited about as well. That even I have to still wait for so.

[01:15:53] But I. Maybe like a vague question on those like are you guys taking with the multiple wings and the lineup kind of concept for you have you know one wing that's more free styley and one wing that's more kind of all around.

[01:16:09] Yes, we are doing that so I'm an obviously there's one that will be targeting kind of to have a performance free style of performance wave and then there's going to be one that's going to target. more towards.

[01:16:26] Casual downwind riding and casual wave riding it's like it is a more stable and more user friendly wing. And then the free style one is like it's a it's still user friendly was just slightly more radical doesn't like let's say.

[01:16:44] I can't imagine the style enough muscles to say anyway. I say it doesn't like like the free style one print functions like might not flag as well. But yeah, like for for it's not meant to.

[01:16:58] Yeah, same time I got speed the wing that doesn't find us to super well it's speed. Well, still allow you to ride way as well right like so because ultimately like you kind of need a little bit.

[01:17:13] You don't want to wing that will flag too well necessarily if you're trying to ride way as radically because of the drag from the wing. That makes sense. Yeah, and it doesn't follow you when you're changing directions quickly either. I remember when I was too well.

[01:17:31] It was kind of funny. But it's true like I remember on the early due to owners there were that which is what I was riding kind of early on and they flagged.

[01:17:43] I think it's really poorly compared to a lot of other wing models that were out at the time.

[01:17:48] But I remember them being so much more maneuverable than you know basically any other wing and so that comes with its own benefit, especially an onshore and stuff like that we have to kind of.

[01:17:59] You know muscle the wing around a little bit or so around so yeah I can totally see what you're saying that you know that's not the thing that's just parked there and said behind you. It didn't always wait a long time for you.

[01:18:13] I would say probably it's like 80% of the users you know us like that's what they would want right. They just like swallow away. I would say I would wing that you can like sit and forget.

[01:18:25] For myself like, you know no it's not really necessarily what I'd probably gravitate towards but I mean maybe there's some conditions like downwinders 100,000%. 100,000% right but like yeah. If I'm trying to do like some really radical turns or whatever I need our. I thought so whatever it might be.

[01:18:47] I definitely need something that you know wants to wants to spend lots of turn wants to rotate right so. So I think like. In the market. Thanks for sure you know you can make one or the other do all but it's nice to have the options.

[01:19:03] And so we're that's what we're doing. Yeah and I think it's a direction a lot of companies are taking and I totally agree with it because I think there's.

[01:19:11] The reality is that there's a ton of people getting into the sport and their needs are not necessarily the same as a lot of people that have.

[01:19:19] You know already went for a year to and are progressing and want to keep pushing them so people pushing once possible for them with the sport. So I mean that makes total sense.

[01:19:29] I really hope that we don't get into what we have in citing and when surfing like or different programs or five different programs and then just over complicate everything.

[01:19:38] But the only thing that might do that is the tour because like we have surf freestyle and we have surf we have freestyle, and then we have a lot of surf freestyle and we have the most long wave and now we have big air as well.

[01:19:51] So we and the wave discipline is new now to all I mentioned that, like so they just stopped to wave discipline specifically just wave so I just what I've been training in the ways. And nobody enjoyed it not to just but but yeah.

[01:20:07] So like the end of the day like you have to you know one might do something better than the other like a wave wing if it's pure wave.

[01:20:17] You know my freestah like I might not necessarily want to use the job and like that's what I go to like I use the job and basically everything like it's fast fast wing it's really good for rotations but like.

[01:20:31] With super light and we're just like you know riding waves like the V3 has more low end.

[01:20:39] Let's say I need to get back up when I need to get you know I need to like get to the next set or whatever I'm not going to be using the wing to do any freestah on moves.

[01:20:47] And flags pretty well like I'm just going to use you know so that's the thing like you might have packed different wings now depending on the spot or the event.

[01:21:01] So yeah, you know they're definitely that definitely might happen for you know multi discipline riders I think our already has.

[01:21:13] But hopefully yeah hopefully it doesn't get super niche where like everybody wants to have like a quiver of waves sales and a quiver of free style sales and a quiver of songs sales you know it but wings instead. Yeah, you know.

[01:21:31] 15 wings and we'll see yeah, I do think that there's you know in real kind of stand out wings and it's the same thing for kites and for when searching sales as well like I think if she got a really really good weight really really good.

[01:21:46] When a kite or sale it's going to work really well in a range of conditions you're obviously not going to be saw embracing with a kind of free free style or way of sale but you know you can pretty comfortably say that I'm not going to get 100% free 100% way of 100% free ride out of the same sale but you know 80 85 90 yeah absolutely.

[01:22:11] Yeah exactly that's kind of like yeah that's kind of like I gravitate towards the job and now it's like it does all that stuff for me.

[01:22:24] Like that's the space it spins really well and it flags nicely like it doesn't lag in the flag as well so I feel like it's faster. You know, few of my turns and stuff like that and I love the boom so I know yeah.

[01:22:43] Oh yeah, it's hard handles or boom like to me just make a lot of sense so it's been my come to not for sure just direct feel like you know what kind of response you're going to get out of the wing when you go for a job as well and you know how to it's easier with the boom too to like make sure that.

[01:23:03] When you want to control your pitch of the board and you want to drive the wing down for instance there's no lag in the handles so just like you drive the wing down and you're pours me down and then you're driving up and the wings going up and the board's going to come up.

[01:23:15] You know, so if you as long as you time it practically with your your body weight but you don't have to worry about the wing causing any issues with that and you have the you know heart handler boom and so it's. It's for me it's.

[01:23:29] And I find it easier to recover as well because as you're saying there's no alive so when you're you know at first every little movement you make.

[01:23:37] It's stabilized because the wing is reacting but once you get used to that you can recover from positions that you never be able to recover from with a wind that has soft handles or is more stable. So there's definitely. Jamming your knuckles and then the center shutter so.

[01:23:56] Yeah, what's to the round turn turn turn. Exactly. There's like I don't know I are for your on booms yet or not Luke but yeah it's first sure I think like.

[01:24:08] I say nine out of ten brands are going to be going to hard and those left exterior like I can't see. Okay. Yeah, I really think that hard handles are moving I'm not convinced that the boom is the best option now that good hard handles are available.

[01:24:24] But yeah either either boom or hard handles is the way to go. And I think our hands are great too. I just like the one thing is for sure like being able to like ride with one hand, that's rather my GoPro and the watch.

[01:24:39] Like moving and like if you drop out like for instance like I can keep going doing that if I have to like do make those adjustments on another wing after you like find a piece of swallow or something.

[01:24:51] And then after make those adjustments where I switch them a boom you can make those adjustments on the flying still be you know, talking up wind and gliding and do your Instagram lives and stuff yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[01:25:07] Why don't we for the grab the boom is the way to go for sure. You're going to be a pro right on the ground to need to be heard of his hair for.

[01:25:17] But I bet for you know I can see in freestyle one handed moves and stuff like that are going to be a thing and. The shirt grabs. I can play how it's possible. Yeah, without a blue might just don't see it happening.

[01:25:33] You can do the hard hand those but during your rotation so like a lot of things like you're going through the rotation and the wing. You know, it's it's not actually part of the maneuver anymore.

[01:25:47] It's just a back flip like you go up where you can the power of the wing.

[01:25:50] Sorry, you go up using the power of the wing once you're actually flipping you know you're depouring the way so that's when you can let go of your hand for instance like I've been trying one hand a back flip. And it boxed up.

[01:26:00] Balls is one hand a back flip. It's one hand in front flips even during that like rotation period when the wing goes neutral or the wing has no power in it. A lot of time you can you know style it out and grab the board or whatever.

[01:26:13] But if it's like a powered maneuver like a 360. Yeah, for sure you like having a boom where you have to have power in the way the entire time you're doing it up in 360.

[01:26:25] It's the only way really you can kind of maybe muscle around one with one hand or do a quick little board top but to actually have a stylish one in 360 will you need a bit or a handle. Or handle that.

[01:26:42] Which I'm surprised isn't really a thing like I guess it's like just why. It's a group. Yeah, it was a bigger person. Like the old. Basically it's like so. It's like the dos you handle and put something in the middle that would be perfect.

[01:26:58] What do you mean, bro? What's like I just said. That's a great idea. It's like there's like one obviously there's like one long bar. But it's like do for is there any reason that people want to handle them? I don't know maybe it's a bit more rigid.

[01:27:16] I don't know you know but I'm just saying like they did that before they had like six handles on the middle of a strut on the center. Yeah, yep. So. But they were all soft. Yeah, but there's still six. And that we still for too many.

[01:27:41] Yes it was. Yeah. I got super fun. It was good. And it was good. And you on. Yeah. It's super cool that we finally got this going. We keep talking about you on the podcast. So it's good to be finally made it.

[01:27:58] If you were just looking for it, you know, so I'd say. Oh, they just you know people want to people want people to talk about their passion. Yeah, right in the wing. Yeah. There are people so I'm going to start to.

[01:28:15] Chair that still can be passionate about it with you guys. And we really cool. Yeah, well, we'll schedule that in that and have you come back. But he thinks a lot for talking with us tonight. Hope you got a good rest. Good time tomorrow. Yeah. Thank you.

[01:28:31] I miss you. I really hope we might be able to rip together again soon because. You know, as a major. This is all been like you know, the most memorable sessions always with like the people that you start outing with. Yep. And like I love. Sure.

[01:28:46] Still like you're saying Tom, like you said it a couple times, but like that your most memorable sections are like. Wave days at sand banks. You know, you have this just had a high. It's just like, yeah. You know, the community and.

[01:28:58] And I don't know the vibe within, you know, that community is really special. So I hope you guys. And we can make the half. Yeah, really.

[01:29:07] We just need that we just need a sponsor for the podcast and then we can fly Tom out for like three weeks in October and I'm on the end too and. Fly on back. That's all we need. Let's do it. You can make it. I'm going to cover.

[01:29:21] Like would be sick. Like let's try. Yeah, it would. I think I should be if everything goes well. I should be launching the new boat then and that would be okay. I'll run this time to be leaving. But it would be yeah, it would be perfect.

[01:29:42] But what could be super fun as well is we can turn the new boat into a floating wind arc and we come visit you. If they're both of you on board. Bring down some toys and. Bring some cameras and make it happen.

[01:29:59] Yeah, I'm going to start with a little practice to trip on. Oh, I'm spot. Totally. I mean, why did I photoshoot on what's the. I'm going to come. And. Dawn's broke. No, why not see that lot. The wind here. Beautiful. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it's a cool.

[01:30:23] It was a close. You're like, really. Another of. You got setting up in the house. No, I would. I would love to be where they are. It's during the Pacific and yeah, like. The. The dream and we'll get there one day, but we're we're not there yet.

[01:30:38] We're in a future. Yeah, so still not too shabby. Can't complain. No, it'd be worse. It'd be worse. We could be a Montreal right now. Yeah. Hey, I'm not in Montreal, but I'm close to Montreal. I'm just, you know, like, you guys get after a Wednesday or

[01:31:02] plus 14 degrees Celsius for first time and all winter. So. Yeah, it's going to be. Yeah, and yeah, and yeah, they're going to be. It's for you. Where are you at right now? No, I mean, I'm in Toronto, apparently. It's minus like one or two today, but.

[01:31:22] I think it's going to go up to like plus we were just talking to the living before you were on. I think it's going to go up to like plus 12 or plus 13 for a day and travel.

[01:31:32] Yeah, we're hoping message just did stays cold because I was supposed to go like in in three four days. Try to get a bit of hiking in do some back country. I reached that to Andre too and.

[01:31:43] And hopefully we get some something a little a little fun, but we'll see with the it's supposed to get warm. So we'll see. I just got closer from him saying that the back and three conditions are really good right now. They were fine. We're still hanging. All right.

[01:32:00] So, okay. Perfect. Yeah, you're going to also just go on the water. You got a lot of it. Yeah, yeah, or you can come down to the Caribbean. That's. I'm going to make for the dates on. But, you know, let's do you guys go away. Thank you.

[01:32:17] All right, but this. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for joining Tom and I in this episode. We hope you enjoyed it and we'll see you next time.