Episode #2- Wing Foil Basics

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about Wing Foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Alright, hey everybody, how's everybody tonight? Hey Luke, glad to be back for part 2. Thanks for hosting again. Absolutely. Thanks for joining.

[00:00:29] I'm just in my car here so don't mind the sun and the awkwardness of a term by video off. Alright, maybe what we'll do like we did last time is do a quick walk around the room to see who's with us and see where you're from.

[00:00:48] And then last time what we talked about was we talked about boards, what boards to kind of get into Wing Foiling with. We talked about a little bit of foils. This time we're going to focus a little bit more on wings.

[00:01:02] And also going to impact this, it's all that kind of other stuff, the accessory stuff for learning. But if you guys obviously want to talk about boards especially because some of you guys

[00:01:11] are new this tonight just let us know and we can always get a lot of experts here so we can kind of talk about that leisure but maybe we'll start. I don't know if everybody can see the screen here but we can start clockwise so maybe

[00:01:27] we can use the lens on the top left. We can talk just introduce yourself and let us know where you're from and where you're at for the journey. Just let me know from the Sunday. And I remember when's your fur and I'm new to Wing. Wing surfing.

[00:01:48] Okay, that's awesome. Where do you go out into back? Sanjani, in Laxanja. Laxanja in Sanjani. Mainly. Very nice. Very nice. All right. All right. I'm from Victoria. I retired in Victoria two years ago.

[00:02:14] It was a nasia for the last 37 years and I'm kind of border, kind of border. I'm new to Wing Foiling. I managed to master the beast I think. In the middle of this summer.

[00:02:27] So, I'll be spending a bit of time at Ross Bay managed to get away from the calpentan get out in the waves. Yeah, the calpenters and things. I know how it's said so it's been a process but hopefully this winter will be fine. So, yeah, awesome.

[00:02:45] Yeah, thanks for sharing. I don't know if it's Olivier or Oliver. Yeah, it's Olivier. I'm from Grand B, Quebec, not far from Montreal. I just started, I just started winning this summer and I do not master the beast for the moment.

[00:03:06] So, in the learning process, starting like, did a few flights but short distances. Okay, awesome. Hey, thanks for joining us. Thanks. We're going to go Thomas Pachtue. That's Tomatoto. Hi, guys. Thanks. So, from what I love, I'm a caterer for it.

[00:03:27] But I don't kite you all that well. I kite mostly when they are good winds and I went forward on my radar and I was lucky to try last winter at Elmera with my storm girl that I really liked it.

[00:03:45] And I had the few try with on a set but had problems. It was too small of a board. I tried also e-foil, which was kind of the blast but also the board was small. So, I just got a wing. I bought one.

[00:04:01] I was able to get one. I'm looking to the next to use it this winter on the lake for the lake. But most importantly, maybe for spring to go and find a board and I'm looking forward for a tips on woodboard to maybe start with. Yeah, okay awesome.

[00:04:21] Awesome. Well, yeah, thanks for joining us. Thanks for sharing. All right, Peter, you're up next. All right, hi, everybody. I'm Peter. I'm out in near Calgary at Go Slake and so that is where we winged behind me. And just new to it this year, I'm a surfer.

[00:04:45] And so, was able to get going and looking to figure out how to get a set up for the that'll let me wing in like eight not winds, 10 not wind. Are you an intermediate level wing foiler looking for an epic adventure this winter?

[00:05:04] If yes, I suggest you reserve your spot for the wing foil expedition hosted by Agua Salada. Baja California sur adventures this coming January. This trip is going to be absolutely amazing. It includes oceanfront accommodations, airport pick up and drop off, fresh locally made food

[00:05:24] and snacks created by a local artisanal chef, yoga, massages, five days of wing foiling, and the best part over 100 kilometers of boat assisted downwinders. Just imagine the freedom and peace in mind that will provide. I look will be one of your wing foil coaches on this trip.

[00:05:43] So, be a great time to not only enjoy the downwinders but also ask questions to prove you're writing. Our trip will take you on different parts of Laventana and Baja that you would not otherwise be able to access without a boat. To learn more, visit winglifepodcast.com

[00:05:58] and click on trips in the main navigation menu. Once again, visit winglifepodcast.com and click on trips in the menu. With only eight spots available, we know it's going to book out fast. So we recommend that you act quickly. I'll see there.

[00:06:13] Here in Alberta and trying to figure out the density of air and the long things to go and all that stuff. Awesome. Cool. Well, we got a good crew. We did it. It definitely helped you with that. We got Tom. Where are you at tonight? There's Sir Tom.

[00:06:36] Am I muted? No. You're good. You're good. Okay. Great. Still in March, unique tonight. Hi everybody. I'm nice to meet everybody that's new here. I am my name is Tom. I'm living in March, unique at the moment which is in the Caribbean.

[00:06:53] I'm from Montreal before that. So I'm here a lot of Montreal and all of the past two and that results. And I've been in the wing game for quite a while now ever since we got

[00:07:04] kind of first prototypes for wings because I was writing through Do It on At The Time. And I was really fortunate to spend most of my first couple of season winging working at a

[00:07:16] shop. So I got up to start kind of different years to try and I kind of stuff. So if anybody has questions about specific equipment that they are interested in buying,

[00:07:26] a slide and want feedback then I'd be very happy to help with that. It's cool to see that we have a lot of new people that want here last time and I think let's make an effort to really

[00:07:37] like if you have a question really make yourself heard so that you can get your answers to last time and kind of ramble along and all kinds of things are sure interesting, but I think people

[00:07:46] that had specific questions that we didn't get the answer. So definitely make yourself heard. Awesome. Thanks Tom. All right last mic. Hey there. It's Mike here from the Quarthalake's just north of Toronto. The wing for a year now started last November.

[00:08:09] Had a blast in the winter time on the lakes, the frozen lakes up here and got into wing foiling after I was competing weightboarding as a kid and then I progressed into weight

[00:08:21] wakesurfing for the last decade or so and I switched to wake foiling and now into wing foiling. Awesome. Awesome. Well hey thanks for sharing. Welcome to the group. So if we're going to start

[00:08:36] talking about wings tonight, does anybody have any questions to start off? Hey I have a question. It's no idea I didn't get a turn yet to intro do so much. Oh sorry no yeah, no problem.

[00:08:53] Uh, pervert example here. If you have a question one thing that you could do that would help is to either turn your camera on and put your hand up like this or there's even the feature way

[00:09:06] you can like raise your hand. I'm doing it right now and then I believe Luke gets a pain with says so and so once you raise the hand. True. Anyhow my name's Noah. I'm also

[00:09:18] like some of you a light wind wing foiler I live on Solts for Nailum. Actually, lucky enough to have Luke stay in with me for the last couple days which was cool.

[00:09:26] We got to really narrow that hard going to the bath windy or in all so I just kind of enough to appear again. Excuse me background. I think I got two kids but yeah I like to win

[00:09:37] foiling up into a couple years and yeah like this for others as well and then learning journey. And Noah you have what's your other wing foil group also it's the wing travel. Yeah we have we

[00:09:51] have a local group called Vancouver Island's wing foil that you're welcome to join if you're not already in it that's a bit of a hub here for the wing foil crew but then I also

[00:10:03] started a new group recently it's called wing foil travel and that's really a global group the people have to share information about wing foils spots and like I'm so curious about Tom spotting Markton. For example there's lots of chit chat about where to go and when and what

[00:10:20] is good for and whatnot yeah Luke just shared the name of it in the chat there anyhow looking for it to hearing more and chatting more with you all. Okay we got two how does this work oh you got

[00:10:35] Thomas all right sir and then we'll appear next. All right so this is Tommy B calling in from Ottawa to this awesome talk show thanks for doing this again Luke's been fun. So yeah I was on

[00:10:49] last one at a great time and we made a document on that one which will share later point and Tom and the Caribbean did some awesome editing on that with me so that should be out here if you want

[00:11:01] like a written doc to produce yeah I'm just you know first year wing in and totally addicted making my own boards in the middle of making a board right now and so we it'd be fun to talk

[00:11:16] board construction in one of these down the line. I think we will do that yeah we can book that in and then get a little show and I think Tom we're also going to do some gear as well go through

[00:11:28] some wings and go through some boards with Tom from Martinica thing or should be awesome as well. Cool thanks Tommy all right Peter sir do you have a question. Yes so I've got going this summer

[00:11:43] here it goes late and I have a I ended up I have like a five meter sail or a five meter wing and a gofoil what is it a 200 like one of those big learner like it's a giant like it's a it's a big

[00:12:05] it's a big monster machine and I couldn't really get up unless I was doing like 15 less it was 15 gusting to 18 knots and we got a lot of kind of eight to 10 knot winds so what I was wanting to do this

[00:12:19] here was to go and I don't want to go foilset up so I was thinking about going to a what are they called the GT 2200 they're coming up with a GT 2600 and then getting I've red online somebody was like an

[00:12:34] eight meter wing and so trying to figure all that out and plus where we are here we were about like four or five thousand feet above sea level and a friend was saying with wind surfing like you have

[00:12:47] probably like 20% less power because the air just isn't as dense as that the ocean and so you got to take that into account so just looking for advice of anybody who's dealt with that before

[00:12:58] and then I have another question about winging on the lake in the winter time I'd like to ask whoever mentioned but this is the first one for me right now just trying to get a set up for next year

[00:13:11] okay do we have any gofoil experts in here Tom if you're written gofoil I have written gofoil I haven't written any of their new GT range even though get friend of mine and yours as well Luke John is all over those and he's really liking them

[00:13:30] I think first and foremost what's really important is to set expectations realistically at the first season I think that forling in eight to ten knots is gonna be a pretty big challenge

[00:13:43] that's not an awful lot of wind and you know if you have a base of eight to ten and it's destiny in 10 or 12 or 13 something like that and it starts being a little bit more realistic but I think that for a first season that's gonna be quite challenging

[00:13:59] maybe after I talk maybe no I can kind of comment on this as well because we've been chatting and he's really into that super light one stuff because that's what he's got at home

[00:14:09] but I think the the name of the game for super light wind is having a board that's got a lot of volume and good amount of length to help you take off you need a big wing depends on your size

[00:14:24] I think in eight meters probably a little bit too big you might want to be looking more into the seven depending on how much you weigh and how tall you are and that could be a good thing

[00:14:33] actually for you to can jump in and answer here so how much do you weigh? Okay I like six to 200 pounds I I've foiled this summer so I've got I can go regular and go like I can go switch

[00:14:48] like both ways and I can stay out of the window and feel pretty confident and in the board I have as like a starboard seven foot like in like the last year's version of the wing foil board so 140

[00:15:04] liters super stable yeah beautiful okay yeah yeah and I think at your size and eight meter would be totally appropriate in that case yeah that would be a good move and I think in eight meter

[00:15:18] like the strike CWC is probably going to be a really good option for it there really you know there are wings that are very easy to use really easy to take off with and they

[00:15:33] stay relatively nimble for their size eight meters is a big wing there's no way around it so you know regardless of how nimble it is it's gonna feel a lot bigger than your five meter

[00:15:44] that you have now but if you want to be kind of pushing that lower end you know around the 10 knots or whatnot that's definitely gonna be a huge help for you I think you have a good size

[00:15:57] board for that so that's gonna be really really good you know it lots of volume and good good amount of length so that helps take off speed and that's gonna be really important if you're looking at getting into foils like that gold foil GT that you're talking about

[00:16:13] because they do need a little bit more takes a little bit more board speed to take off if you have if you have kind of that high-rass bike foil like the GT so I think that's that would

[00:16:25] be a good combination I didn't hear initially are you already on gofoil or do you have or is there something you were looking at? No I'm on gofoil I think I have the what they call the

[00:16:36] malloc the camera the name of it is the Melyko Melyko 200 okay yeah the Melyko 200 is already a nice big wing so that's great I think I need I can get back to you on the sizing of the

[00:16:54] of the GT I don't know them by heart but we can also connect you with with John Peter our buddy from Toronto he's been riding gofoil for like two what two three years now since the beginning and he's

[00:17:08] tried a whole bunch of different stuff so we can connect you guys as well to ask some questions for him that would be great yeah yeah there's also a crew in Lake Eury that are all riding gofoil

[00:17:19] and there's a number of them that are pretty big guys as well they're mostly into when surf wave foiling but the way that they do the the way that they're riding their boards it's actually pretty

[00:17:30] similar requirements as for winging so they would have really good input on bigger foils as well I think that anyway you look at it that kind of a foil it's kind of higher aspect and a little

[00:17:41] bit quicker is going to be really good for that really light wind stuff just so you have enough glide to accelerate and you know pick up that apparent wind and at that point you can start riding

[00:17:55] is the 8 to 10 knots so you get is that kind of like a stable 8 to 10 knots or do you get gusts that are a little bit higher or oh yeah we'll get it's 8 to 10 with gusts to 15 but I can't

[00:18:07] okay so that's a totally different volume okay that that's super doable so if it's gusting to 15 especially with that big wing and a big board you'll have enough time to accelerate in the dust

[00:18:21] as you pick up a little bit of experience and at that point it's totally reasonable to keep flying and in an 8 to 10 with that kind of a big high aspect falling a big wing that's super doable

[00:18:33] okay yeah because right now with the five like I need like a 18 kind of gust to kind of get this foil off and go in and so nope but that's that's great if it's possible to connect me with

[00:18:48] Tom I guess in Ontario whatever whose kingdom that would be great yeah and then yeah it's been a good thing yeah and also especially like as you're learning I think it took me

[00:19:06] now I think Tom you had a little bit more water time and hey Mike welcome thanks to Dr. we had it took a few years to figure out how to push the board forward and how to pump your wing

[00:19:18] so at the start I was almost sold a little bit more if you can go in later win but then it was almost like I was win surfing I was sit there not know what to do and the wing would

[00:19:28] pull me forward it's only now my third season when I've had quite a bit of water time that I've been able to learn how to pump my board and as you pump your board you're able to

[00:19:37] circular kind of pump your wing a little bit and then you can get yourself down into that later range but at the start you almost want to be in-staplaying kind of thing like you want to have a decent

[00:19:47] amount of power and which does make the learning curve a lot easier because you have no idea what's going on at the start and that is 100% normal because it took yeah it took like two and a half

[00:20:01] seasons I think just to figure out this pumping because there's so much go on oh yeah yeah it's so yeah that's okay yeah I think that was a little bit more connectivity okay 100%

[00:20:21] and then yep so we'll go ahead well the second question was to go on the on the lake in the winter time I've read a few places that you want to be like in that you know if you want to go on snow

[00:20:34] with a pair of skis or snowboard you probably want to be like 70 meter sail in those kind of same kind of winds and in fact can't remember who said they do it in the winter time already on

[00:20:48] the lake but yeah it was me yeah I actually I was using my five four a lot in the winter time but I was I think what is the most relevant is the type of snow that's on the lake so I was

[00:21:00] trying to key up a lot of hard packed days and not go out when the snow was fresh obviously the bigger sail helps but I was having a lot of fun on my five four actually

[00:21:11] and what were you on your skis or snowboard or snowboard actually yeah snowboard okay and just to sort of go back and eat the last point but the two trains of thought so I have an

[00:21:24] eight meter CWC and I can use it in the I'm also the same stats as you them about six two 200 one nine two two hundred so I have my eight meter that I'll pair up with maybe my my 15

[00:21:39] 25 high aspect and I'll have a lot of fun on that on a 70 liter board but as I've gotten better what I found is my school of thought has changed to I bought the CF 2400 foil and I've been pairing

[00:21:54] that up with a mid sized board I think my mid size is 99 and I'll use the 99 the five four handwing and the 24 foil and that is to me more fun than trying to lug my eight meter around

[00:22:11] on my high aspect 15 25 so I've been balancing between those those two schools and I think I would rather have a larger foil in a smaller handwing at this point just for pumping around and

[00:22:22] the maneuver will do so and you've been doing some good testing there in the core of this for that yeah yeah like very very similar wind conditions I'd say my average is eight to 11

[00:22:34] and then gusts up to 20 but mostly to 16 to 15 and that's kind of the bulk of the days that I'm getting out of okay awesome thank you awesome thanks guys thanks great hey welcome absolutely

[00:22:50] all right who's up next can you hear me? All right can all right so just just to follow up on winter use of wings oh it's been that it's pretty big here in Ottawa use this the same

[00:23:12] river we wind surf on and get some good wind there's a huge um citing crew that's doing a lot of snow citing there so a lot of them are getting curious with use of wings and I would

[00:23:25] concur that snow conditions is really important if you want to go fast and have fun on a wing the crustier hard packs know are the good days for that they can get down using smaller ones skis tend to be a little easier to start with of course

[00:23:41] and you can you can get going with skis by doing a little skate skiing motion to get just sort of unstuck which is a lot harder to do with a snowboard after your point of good

[00:23:52] snowboarder I think to to be able to jump on a board and use a wing so skis are easier and I think skis are probably a little faster but if you're a big dude I would maybe use the wings

[00:24:07] sometimes when the snow is just a good but I would definitely just get a kite windwork windwork waterway faster way more power and it's relatively easy because you don't have to worry about falling in the water and drowning and getting dragged in too many

[00:24:21] kite mayors and so that's a some of us are doing using the wings sometimes just for novelty but kite snow citing in the winter is way more fun than we more power.

[00:24:32] That's actually what you add to that thanks Thomas one thing to add to that actually skates as well like I was doing yeah wing skating is super fun and you can get out and next to no wind

[00:24:46] you fly up winds and that is something that's super that's that surprised me of how I would enjoyable that was so that's always another option as well. Now the only thing to look

[00:24:56] out in the winter especially is the wings if you have windows in them just to make sure that they don't crack and knock on a thing. Yeah but I think the rest of them are fine.

[00:25:08] I see the wing skating is the most graceful and the most speed and the transitions are smooth and you feel like you're floating but the problem is finding good conditions there's so thick old tired and the other nature can take them away in hours. Yeah it's hard absolutely.

[00:25:30] Any other new guys that are just going up tonight you guys have any questions about how to how to get started or where you're at specifically we're happy to to kind of jump in and help out.

[00:25:41] Sure, are you? Yeah I have a question regarding my wing quiver so I live in a light wing area and I wanted a wing that would be powerful enough to get me in lots of conditions and also

[00:25:56] to use it in the winter. So I bought a six meter and after I bought a four meter but I find I have a big gap between these two because when it's like between 15 and 25 my

[00:26:10] my four meter is not enough but I'm fill it overpowered with my six so I was wondering if that quiver is a good choice or maybe I should go with a five or a four or five something

[00:26:26] complete. How much, how much do you weigh in how tall? I'm six two and I weigh 180. Okay and what's your end of wings are you on? I have my four meter is a

[00:26:40] a sling wing. And the six is a F1. I have a S type starboard foil, 2000 and 110 liter the dashboard. Okay and the sling wing that's the version one. V2. V2. Okay okay because obviously wings plays a huge difference if some wings like the F1s

[00:27:10] you'll find that they pump extremely well. I'm writing KT this year, Tom you're writing on right as well on wings. Yes this year and I find the KTs, the strikes, the new dootones that are coming out.

[00:27:24] They pump super well. I've tried the V2s from sling shot. They pump fairly well as well. That'll definitely help. What I'm finding with the KTs and other people can chime in

[00:27:36] about the other brands but KTs, the five and the four meter are actually spread out nicely. They're kind of like Windsor-Sale and because I found the strikes were a little bit closer so the five

[00:27:50] meter to a four two strike. I found there was a decent amount of range. I could have almost went with a three and a five. For example I'm 155 nine so I guess I'm just one wing down from you

[00:28:01] but I did find that the four two and the five were so that's 0.8 was to wait too close or I would have went a little lighter but it's hard with certain brands obviously but what about

[00:28:13] on wings, Tom are they a little bit closer in spacing or yeah so I think before I get to on wings there's two things to think about is that if you're doing a quiver with two different

[00:28:29] companies you really need to try the wings first so this kind of thing doesn't happen. As Luke was saying the strikes or the F1 wings in general they have a very different kind of low end

[00:28:41] than a lot of other wings and they pump really easily and they can be you know you can really they really do well underpowered I find they don't do that well overpowered in my opinion

[00:28:53] whereas the sling wing I find works really well in kind of like medium power at the V2 I haven't tried to do it three yet but the V2 works pretty well in kind of like medium power to overpowered

[00:29:06] almost so I think the issue here is not the gap between four and six meters because that's usually a decent gap in most companies anyways. The bigger issues that you have one wing that works

[00:29:18] particularly the well in the low end and one wing that works particularly well in the high end and so you have this gap between the two of them. And I think so I think that's one that's your

[00:29:29] bigger issue than to me I think the biggest issue is the 2000 square centimeter foil to feeling overpowered in 15 to 18 on a six you can't you can't shut off that power as nice when you're on a 2000 square centimeter foil so I think that's maybe where you're topping it too.

[00:29:52] Yeah, right sure and that's actually the other bit about that foil is that as if I'm in sounding correctly it's kind of a low or aspect high surface area foil and those foils are

[00:30:02] a little bit draggy so when you get overpowered you just have all that power in the wing and you can accelerate and kind of relieve that power in the wings so that's definitely a point there as well

[00:30:13] however that foil should be helping you with the four meter to get up and going earlier so you should be able to fly before 25 knots on a four meter you should be flying in about 20

[00:30:25] at your size so it could be you know taking thing a little bit as well that and that'll that'll you know that'll come with time that doesn't nobody's born knowing how to do that so

[00:30:35] that's that's something to consider as well so I think what I would say for you is you know already what people are working on your technique and kind of becoming efficient with that smaller

[00:30:48] wing it's a really really big difference to be riding a four and a six you know it's a a little bit of a different pumping technique it's a really different feel and air so I think

[00:30:57] using that for even if you think it's a little bit marginal sometimes it might be a good call and I think adding a foil I didn't catch who that was I made that comment that was a great

[00:31:08] combination she out of bit of a smaller foil it'd be around 1600 or 1500 or something like that or even you know a bit of a higher aspect for lots of little quicker that's going to allow you to

[00:31:18] play around and fill that gap a little bit if you don't want to be changing the wings that you already have okay here you're welcome yeah I do find that those strikes they have a very good

[00:31:30] low end like the V2's for a sunshine they're great they just they don't they don't pump quite as well in that low end so that makes sense thank you question them hey Luke

[00:31:46] yes hey it's Noah I wanted to add one thing and I also asked Tom and Caribbean Tom a question so I guess my the thing that I wanted to share is that I've had this experience getting into

[00:32:00] the sport trying to piece together the quiver with used gear and some new gear I guess what I've learned and also heard is that I used wing can have a decrease in performance over time

[00:32:14] especially if it's a man's job that especially if you've gotten it from a pro who has really used it heavily and so if I don't know your exact specifics but if you were to say pair are used when with a new wing

[00:32:29] then that would also amplify the difference in power potential obviously some new stability one overpowered yeah and then Tom so the question that I wanted to ask is maybe could I would love to know more about the difference in technique pumping a small wing in a big wing

[00:32:50] I just kind of go for broken and give her so I would love to know some of more refined points you yeah actually I think that we could cover yeah so this is kind of what works for me it might

[00:33:04] not necessarily work for everybody but I'm a bit of a smaller rider so when I'm on a bigger wing I don't necessarily have the size or the strength to pump it super aggressively and I think this

[00:33:18] is the case for most people on their bigger wing because it's so big that you end up either catching the water with the wing tips or you just can't pump as actively as you would with a small wing

[00:33:29] so I find that with a big wing you kind of have these big slow you know constant pressure pumps that you can then slowly accelerate and after that you can you know once you start moving

[00:33:43] then you can pump the wing a little bit more but it's really more of a passive takeoff with a big whereas with a little wing initially when you start pumping it you're going to feel like there's

[00:33:54] really not that much in the wing but the more you pump that thing the more power you're going to get in it you can just really build up your apparent wing and accelerate really really quickly

[00:34:05] I've used the parent wing now twice I don't know if everybody knows what that is but basically you have your real wing which is the wing when you stand on the beach and you feel that wind

[00:34:13] and then apparent wind is the wind that is created when you're moving so it's the combination between that wing that you're moving and creating and the wind that is the real wind that is

[00:34:24] your apparent wind and that's what you're riding on that's what, citing your riding on or when surfing or any any sale power sport you're actually using your apparent wind and the reason

[00:34:34] that's important when you're on a foil is especially in gusty conditions if you can keep your speed up your apparent wind stays up so if you have a big dry leaf foil and really gusty conditions

[00:34:46] then you can't go as fast which means your apparent wing can't go as high which means that you can't just burn through the walls easier there you go so that's apparent wind and then just a little

[00:34:59] quick note on the stretcher in the wings yeah that's definitely a thing the catapazes on basically all wings these days are a little bit of x-block coming in but I'm gonna ignore that for the moment

[00:35:11] because it's it's a little bit more niche but basically all wings have that ground canopies which means that they do stretch over time and you know each company has a little bit of a

[00:35:24] different way of dealing with it I know that some of the earlier dew atones came too flat initially and then break in and you'd have kind of the shape that they're supposed to have

[00:35:32] and after that they blow out some companies come and they have a really you know perfect shape right away and then it'll stretch from there and it becomes less great you know it doesn't mean that

[00:35:46] the wing just stops working but it definitely changes the performance and especially when you're overpowered I find one of the wing kind of stretches and gets baggy it flaps a little bit more

[00:35:58] and it's a little bit less stable and it doesn't accelerate as much more pull so you feel overpowered more often and as Noah was saying if you buy your wing used especially from a pro

[00:36:11] you know that you can stretch out a one pretty quick like I remember getting a new dew atone when it was a four meter and in one session I noticed that the wind stretched because

[00:36:21] I wrote it overpowered and I was really pushing it that session and I noticed that it stretched then so you know it definitely can go really really quick if you have somebody that is pushing

[00:36:30] hard I just learned a little bit about the different kind of materials are using as well from Colmox type repair this here because they have some that have I think it's the double stitch or

[00:36:42] something and there's triple stitch coming through to the table it's the um what's it called it's alluding me right now grip stop triple or double or single grip stop that's it

[00:36:57] KTs are doing three the I know the ocean rodeos were two now he showed me something else that he wasn't allowed to show me but that was a pretty cool material so we don't know what if

[00:37:10] that's gonna come out there in the next year or so but apparently that stuff didn't stretch it all so who knows but I know the KTs are the threes they're not as tight as the strikes

[00:37:21] so I haven't noticed much of a stretch yet but the archriple stop versus doubles so I'm curious about that as well to see how that goes obviously they still tear relatively easily um they all all the

[00:37:36] ones that I've tried at least if you drop them on your foil or the foil drops on it they're going to get it but repairings pretty quick measy but stretching is an issue for sure okay is anybody else

[00:37:53] have any questions yeah just have fun funny comments on one of the forums that that I chat with some people are thinking about because they're good so we're thinking of taking in a seam

[00:38:07] or taking in some fabric and to retite in their wings so I'm curious to see which one of them takes that plunge and does it first not sure if anyone's done it yep what does it a thought sure enough I might change the pumping dynamic

[00:38:25] so I might type you up if you knew what you were doing yep I think with the what they have sure everything and you have on most wings you're going to have to take quite a few steps

[00:38:37] sure actually Andrew and Chris hello hey how are you heard my name on the left of your talking to me were asking me something no yeah just like you came in kind of a few minutes in

[00:38:57] so just want to say hey and welcome and see if you any questions thanks um yeah no I appreciate the input from last week I picked up the the foil the the sap foil 1100

[00:39:10] which I have it for hadn't really had a chance to try just because it hasn't been windy out here you know this is in Victoria but yeah looking Monday so it looks windy how to use it yeah

[00:39:23] we might get 20 to 30 on Monday apparently no I was saying okay yeah I may actually have to go pick up my wind surf gear and I might actually get the play around Clover Point that would be awesome

[00:39:36] yeah nice well I've tried going out on the board in just minimal wind and it's not a board it can stand up on so it's just gonna be it's me with a board that is plus 22

[00:39:50] over my weight you know plus 22 meters so I know the recommended is probably 30 35 for someone who's wind surf before so I think I'm gonna be fonding around a little bit but yeah looking forward to

[00:40:05] figuring it out I figured it out and drop in and see what you guys were discussing today absolutely we're going to be looking into well we started talking a little bit about wings and then

[00:40:16] and then just answering some basic questions around that stuff but Andrew did you have did you have a question or welcome to the group yeah I know I'm just kind of looking to make

[00:40:28] the transition into winging and looking to buy some wind gear so reading lots just trying to be a sponge taking in all the information is there a branch we should just stay away from that are really

[00:40:42] not good like now if you want to bedsheet buy a Nash and they'll be great in 40 knots but you won't be able to get going until 40 knots but some reason he loves that stuff but it all depends

[00:41:01] honestly and what you like I guess we could transition into the different kinds of handles and all that kind of stuff we all kind of ride different brands and we all like different brands for one

[00:41:12] reason or another I personally like soft handles because they're easier on the hands especially when it gets into cold water I've tried the booms and I've tried the small handles the hard just small handles and I'm not as much of a fan as just a comfy little

[00:41:32] handles that the strikes have or the KT's have so that's handles and stuff there but there's such a variety it all depends on what somebody likes some of the wind surfers and I'm

[00:41:43] a wind surfer but they love the booms like Tommy liked the echo at the start a and Thomas you like the what was the one that you got there that had those harder handles the cabrino with

[00:41:54] sort of this mini hard handles I like those yeah now apparently on the on the dootones and new dootones there's one wing that came into a comox height repair the guy let go of his leading

[00:42:08] edge hand with the hard handle and it it completely ripped the center strut out the whole wing just separated in two because the hard handle but that's just a poor design though it'd be fair that's

[00:42:25] not a hard handle issue yeah I think so so I guess it depends on for me it depends on how light of when do you want to go what brands are good for pumping what conditions do you like

[00:42:39] riding in because there's so many things invariably to consider some wings will sit behind you when you're surfing a lot better some wings are good for low end some wings are good for high end

[00:42:49] you got all these different variability and handles as well and I think all of us would probably say we love our individuals I'm riding KT love those and they flag well and they're relatively

[00:43:01] light the strikes are still I think the lightest in the class pretty much are they still leading the way not if you're considering the lool of wings but in the true kind of the

[00:43:13] any wing that's using just background I think yeah the strikes are quite light I know the onwings are pretty similar weight wise there's maybe 100 grams or something like that difference okay precise so quite similar I think the KT is pretty similar as well from

[00:43:28] but we would also recommend that in a way so there may no longer be ones yeah I hope sorry Tomica yeah you know nor is I have a bit of a lie guys so sorry if I'm

[00:43:39] kind of cutting people off or people are cutting off there's no problem it's not it's just the answer that's a little crappy here but um I had a good oh sorry

[00:43:50] no worries just to have kind of round up that V1 question I think yeah most V1s are not great I think the F1 V1s are pretty good if you find ones that aren't too stressed out yet

[00:44:03] and potentially the V1 O's ons are not that bad but other than that most of the first generation wings are not that great having said that there's a lot of companies that came into the game

[00:44:17] a little bit later so their V1s are not so bad like on for example came in later into the game so their V1 kind of came out when most V2s came out or maybe like V1 1 1 half that's

[00:44:30] and then that wing you know is kind of in that ballpark and kind of like uh first first and a half second generation one so it's already a pretty decent wings so from the big brands

[00:44:41] that kind of came out with it right away I would definitely say V1s for the most part are not great has anybody written the what is it north and Nova yeah that's that that I would consider as

[00:44:55] a newer company that came into it and that's a pretty decent wing at the V1 okay okay yeah the KT's just came out this year and their V1s were great just be careful buying I guess we're

[00:45:09] all coming from a used classifier but that's the thing right like be careful what obviously ask some questions and see how on they've been writing the wings and why they're selling them it's always nice but yeah the V2s and then obviously there's a few brands but

[00:45:23] I think overall now people are catching up a little bit it just depends what you want to do with your wing but Chris you had a question well what was it that you didn't like about Nash that's the one

[00:45:33] I have oh okay 5.3 and you said it was a bit like a bed sheet or something it wasn't true how different how other wings are different because I haven't used other wings so are you around this weekend

[00:45:49] in Vick or Monday I should be okay because I have if if we end up going to Ross Bayer something I'll let you hold the VKT and you can demo that so the main difference now I tried a Nash

[00:46:05] I think it was last year but so it was pumpability and the stiffness of the wing to generate that power because I found that on the Nash I would just you could pump but it would the wing was

[00:46:21] so soft and the canopy tension was so like so stretched yes that I could not generate any power whatsoever okay so it was more of a higher end wing and things were kind of switching to that

[00:46:34] kind of terminology now one wing is amazing for this and for high wind and stuff like that the Nash took a great but if you're looking to get out in light winds then you're going to have a very

[00:46:43] hard time from my experience on that wing pumping I couldn't pump it at all okay yeah yeah you have the same experience as well that's your experience as well Tom yeah I got to try the V1

[00:46:58] in the V2 Nash and they both were kind of that you know pretty dead in your hands you like their stable if which is nice but you they really don't respond very well to pumping so

[00:47:12] if you have enough wind to just kind of sheet in and go then yeah it works but I would really encourage you to try and take a look up on that offer and try the KT wing yeah it's a night and

[00:47:25] day difference for for pumping and I think there was an interview with Robbie and he said he just liked the feel of that wing and he wasn't interested in getting modern and techy like the race

[00:47:35] when surf sales kind of thing he just liked the fact that that it was like that but yeah so that that'll make learning a bit harder as well yeah LA okay any comment on the Armstrong V2

[00:47:56] foils yeah no the wing so the oh I haven't yeah the arms strong wing the hand wings I haven't written an Armstrong hand wings as anybody I have an either I think that their first generation was not very well received and their second

[00:48:15] generation is pretty similar to the second generation ozone which was quite well received yeah they've got good foil I like their foils for tight foil I'm in all this and and nice product very streamlined on but I'm not sure about the yeah

[00:48:34] their wing altogether but fair I finally got to I finally got to try their their boards actually a 60 liter board oh yeah and dumb was nice it was a nice board yeah I've got the 90

[00:48:49] liter board okay yeah so okay well you might get the chance to try the 4.5 V2 and Ross Bay there you go go thanks hey you welcome so anybody else have some questions for us

[00:49:09] or if anybody actually we got a nice panel are you are you guys noticing build quality because I hear a lot of wingers are beaten up their kites pretty good with what the wing through them so

[00:49:21] that that's is there a big difference in quality of the wings I know that that's yeah summer belt lighter summer belt tougher summer belts like I did check out the KT's

[00:49:38] that just happened to be writing those this year but I found the construction was a little bit heavier um now I heard the new CWC like G's out in Ottawa that thing the material started to

[00:49:52] stretching I think or it was more the sewing started to undo but overall Tom J. have any Jemmy input on that one look I don't know if you were talking to me there but it totally cut out is okay

[00:50:15] no no worries um and did you want to repeat your question for yeah I just wondering about build quality on the wings I know a lot of guys are putting their foils through their wings and I know

[00:50:30] looks like ocean rodeo is also coming up with that new material that they had at the AWSI saw the videos on YouTube there that they're saying it's going to be a oil group so it just kind of

[00:50:40] curious on the different constructions on the wings yeah totally I think the um the foils through the wings is not really a build quality issue in my mind that's more of a durability issue and

[00:50:57] apart from those new materials which I personally haven't seen or tried yet they're I think it's pretty similar I mean if you if you put your wing into the edge of a sharp foil it's

[00:51:07] going to rip basically regardless of what wing that you have in terms of build quality there are differences for sure and I think in the material choices kind of like Luke was saying some companies

[00:51:21] air towards a little bit more robust some companies air towards a little bit lighter I think that kind of the best compromise in my opinion is finding a wing that's built with a relatively

[00:51:35] with as durable of materials as possible and just has as a little as possible on the wing which makes it light um someone's have just a lot of buckles and belts and all kinds of handles and stuff like that

[00:51:48] and that adds weight all that stuff so finding something that's kind of really you know very little handles as simple as possible and just kind of good build quality um good materials

[00:52:00] is kind of the way to go and that that'll hold up the best in terms of stretch over the long term and in terms of abrasion against the board and just in normal use but in terms of accidents like

[00:52:13] a foil going through it I think that you know regardless of how much you pay for the wing you're probably going to tear it. Now apparently that new ocean rodeo material supposed to be tear proof

[00:52:25] but you can't fold it or something so we'll see but if you compare if you add that with a lula you're probably going to be looking at the price of a small civic or something for that wing.

[00:52:36] Yeah, it depends on how much money you want to spend to there's some wings like that come in at the decent ballpark range where you don't feel so bad buying something new and you can spin it for like 60 whatever, 70, 80 percent and it's doable for somebody starting

[00:52:53] but one thing to keep in mind if you're going to go out and buy a $2,500 or $3,000 wing like there's not a lot of people that would buy that use when they can go out and buy a brand that's

[00:53:04] quite good for cheaper so that is one thing that I've found that's a bit that's a bit scary I find when wings start to get that expensive um but overall yeah it depends on how light you want to go

[00:53:21] strikes of the lightest and some others that are the lightest but obviously if you look at how they're constructed, if you're a bigger guy then that will you will put more wear in that vehicle

[00:53:31] no different than taking a Honda Civic down a logging road versus and f250 or something your suspension just built a bit more I would consider this almost the same thing. Okay yeah yeah. But that being said right D and Thomas and stuff another guy's an Ottawa who were 200

[00:53:53] to around the 200 mark were using the striacate meters and those things were going very well and those are fairly like construction now I'm not sure how many years still last and how long

[00:54:03] they'll take until they stretch out but um but that's just yeah one thing to note okay does anybody have any any other questions where we're just cracked the 906 mark so happy to kind of do a

[00:54:24] final round and go into even leashes and stuff like that if anybody wants to know more about those things why don't you why don't you talk about leashes that up some things like that. Sure um I use a waste coil for me I find that's been pretty comfortable

[00:54:46] I did try a shorter coil on the ankle the other day and that was kind of nice when you're learning I find that the waste is quite nice for myself and other people can chime in at what they like best

[00:54:57] but the waste was kind of cool because it does keep everything out of the way so you just have your one wing tied to your wrist left or right wrist depending on what you prefer sometimes how

[00:55:07] I tie my wrist leash onto my wrist is based on the wind direction and when I'm coming in sometimes it's easier for me to have the wing downwind of me and the leash tied to that same wrist

[00:55:19] so if I'm going out like I kind of set it up sometimes for coming home especially if you have a little short break it's just a bit of a pain in the butt having your wrist kind of thing and everything

[00:55:31] tied across when you're coming back in but that's that's fairly fairly minor but waste leash I found has been awesome coil I like coil because it kind of stays out of the way

[00:55:42] if it's just a long surface it's a lot easier to get wrapped up in your foil wrapped up with yourself and minds of Velcro one so if anything happens just a little handle on it I can kind of Velcro

[00:55:56] keep in mind that those boards will take off so you want to have a leash that's strong enough to kind of hold it you don't want to go too small because if that thing does snap

[00:56:05] you will most likely not catch your board this year I was on a lake on Vancouver Island I was getting my mom a lesson and I guess I must have not tied the wrist strap well enough so I fell

[00:56:19] and then my wing was three feet in front of me so I could see it was just in front of me and the wrist strap was just lying there in the water so I swaned to get it sure enough a swell would

[00:56:30] take it it would push you a little bit and then my wing caught some wind and it just took off so make sure when you're putting on those leash is both wrist and waste or whatever that they're

[00:56:40] on well that they're properly fastened especially attaching to your board normally what I do is if I'm attaching a piece of rope to it I'll take all burn the rope a little bit to make sure

[00:56:52] that that knot is super strong and I test that thing quite a bit all the little things you want to test before before going out because losing a piece of equipment like that based on what you have

[00:57:04] if you lose your board it'd be a lot harder to get in especially your wing it's a little bit easier you can kind of just swim back in but that's what I've noticed with leash is so far

[00:57:16] it's anybody else have any other comments of what they use and why they elect them? Ale? Any drawback having the waste attached to your wing instead because you've got your waste to the board right? I think maybe for paddling you'd be free to move your arms around

[00:57:39] but any you guys like it? I don't have a set protocol yet yeah some some guys seem to like it I've tried it once where I just tied for swimming in like I just took it off my my

[00:57:55] wrist and I put it down that was kind of nice because it allowed me to swim in faster this was just in the swimming kind of a thing other times I would just take it off my wrist and put it on my ankle

[00:58:07] okay so it would it would free up some actually there's one good point to mention obviously the the leash is all different lengths so the kTs are 120 and then they go up to 150 so they are relatively

[00:58:20] long so you can swim with them a little bit easier but some of the shorter leash is our very difficult to swim with so it really does depend what you're comfortable with I like having it

[00:58:31] attached to my wrist just because it is one less thing to get wrapped around the board in that kind of thing and then if your leash just get twirled together that's a bit of a pain in the

[00:58:42] butt because if you're in stronger wind or if you're stuff like that and you happen to sing oh whatever I'm just going to take my wrist leash off or this off to untangle it and then you happen

[00:58:52] to like look somewhere and you drop it well it's gone so those are all things to take into consideration but some guys do like that that waste waste combo so yeah so there's no there's no real protocol

[00:59:08] you know said it's a preference and yeah fine but when you're writing down when you've caught a wave and all this and you're just flagging your your wing uh do you find is there any other one where the other

[00:59:21] I'll have to call in to see if there's anybody else because for me personally it's been the kt's you can kind of even let them go and you can kind of hold on to the leash and they fly behind you like when I lost my wing

[00:59:33] I actually had to luckily my mom was downwind to me so I went and grab and I bored her four meter

[00:59:38] I went down to mine I tied the four meter to my wrist and I used to five and I flew back up with both wings and the four flew perfectly kind of behind me so it really does I think for that particular situation

[00:59:51] it's more the brand of the wing that you're choosing and how comfortable and how well it flies while it's being flagged and then in the rest situation but um but I don't know does anybody ride with

[01:00:04] the wing on their waist okay I'm the only one yeah if it's comfortable I didn't know which way to go so I just pick one okay good yeah there's nothing wrong with it I think it's awesome

[01:00:22] I did ride it and it was very nice to not have like you're just more free right yeah yeah and I always try to keep my obviously the leash for the board behind me so I did tie it to the front of

[01:00:34] me and I find that was okay so yeah whatever you feel comfortable with I think a friend of ours even John there and Toronto he had a like a little spring retracted leash like a little bucket or

[01:00:49] whatever and nothing curled in he seemed to like that I guess in last year what I did is I used a surf leash and I went and got a tactical military belt yeah with the deering on it

[01:01:01] and I did that for last year and then this year I switched I could always post it on the group we could always do a post of all the stuff that we're using if people are interested and

[01:01:10] and seeing where we buy them and how much are they that kind of thing because I got this one from a shop in Victoria in Cabero Bay and it's I think it's it's a Hawaii product but it is pretty beefy

[01:01:23] yeah because I'm always looking at the joints and how long I've been to take before I replace it because that's like three four grand a test your feet you don't know these that well no yeah

[01:01:35] I had I had the wind ripped off my hand I had about a second hand and the Velcro was worn out a little bit and the leash carved and it was a three meter and it just flew and just disappeared at the end of

[01:01:49] the bay and it was a sad sight to see I freaked out yeah well that's really pretty is winged for a little bit that's good yeah Lily at least we were still at I luckily was able to catch mine because it was still I was

[01:02:08] in the center of the lake but if I hadn't had somebody else with me out of it and it's a lunch so at that point you're pretty disappointed but yeah awesome yeah awesome awesome hey you're welcome

[01:02:24] impact best obviously and helmets are another good thing to talk about helmet that kind of goes low in the back of your spine as well one of my buddies here this year he was downwind of his board

[01:02:35] and what happened is is the the board flipped and the fall came up and the fall kind of came down while we could actually do next time is go into maybe some of the safety stuff

[01:02:45] basics about that kind of thing where to position yourself should you be always upwind of your board downwind of your board how is easiest way to get on that kind of thing we can kind of talk

[01:02:58] about as well because there's a lot of techniques at all of us have especially based on if you're learning like I was teaching I've been teaching for two summers part time and I was

[01:03:07] able to watch a lot of clients on the jet ski and stuff and see how they learn and and everybody does it slightly different and there's some techniques and stuff especially when you get into smaller

[01:03:16] boards or even just learning on the bigger boards that'll help you progress a little faster so what we'll do is we'll book that in for next week and what we can do is talk about some of those points

[01:03:26] but helmets are super important and then impact best are also quite nice at the start as well especially when you're starting to get into some as turns on your board I was teaching at

[01:03:38] elevation for Marie this spring it's hot for her for about a month and then last year I was teaching and trying to create an Vancouver Island so I don't think I'll have time next year to teach just

[01:03:50] because we're schedule online just kind of exploded but I was teaching for both of those schools and it was a super fun experience seeing kind of that transference of joy and seeing people light up

[01:04:02] as they learn to sport that has done so much for me and all my buddies it was super fun experience to do but but impact vests as I was going on

[01:04:15] as soon as you start to go and then your your your four well your boards get light and you're not sure how to control it at the start it's a really good idea to have that best on in case you do

[01:04:24] kind of come down it will definitely help with float obviously to help you get home but it will help with board impacts I took the board to the gut a few times the first time as I was

[01:04:35] trying I think it was heel side tax and regular tax when I was up and riding for about a season after a season I started practicing some of that stuff and I found that the impact best

[01:04:46] and obviously helmet combo were definitely something that's comfortable I don't ride with impact as much anymore because I like to be a little bit lighter and it gets it just gets too hot in the

[01:04:54] legs but normally if I'm at in the ocean I have a vast on in case anything happens if I'm in a safe lake I don't worry about it as much so anybody else have any points on on leashes

[01:05:09] or any of that kind of safety gear yeah I can maybe comment on leashes I still my wife for me because my yeah mine that's okay yeah I think the I'm a big fan of the waist leash as well

[01:05:29] as you were saying and I think a coil for the board is a really good option I don't know if I this was mentioned or not while I was gone but the risk leash I think are most of them are

[01:05:41] really not very good and the only ones that I've tried that have liked are the F11's which are kind of like a rope with a bungee integrated into it that seems to be the best

[01:05:53] risk leash I've tried I haven't tried the wing on the on the waist yet but there's definitely people that like it the biggest thing about leashes is use them because there's a lot of people

[01:06:04] that are not using board leashes and the first time that I tried winging somebody else was trying it with me at the same time and he would then 15 seconds he lost the board and was never able

[01:06:19] would never have been able to catch it there was a kite that helped them to pick it up but they just take off so really definitely use a leash and you know try to experiment there's all kinds

[01:06:32] of different options try to work it out and see what works for you but find a system that works for you and definitely use the leash mm-hmm the KT leashes are actually pretty good they got a good

[01:06:44] good like wrist hold as well and there is that little pivot kind of material there or metal piece or whatever I can't remember what you call it but there has that joint where you can kind

[01:06:54] of swallow a little bit swivel that's it yeah so they do have those things built in but some of them they don't like at least the F1's you can put them on and there is that buckle there so you

[01:07:04] can kind of wrap over top some of them are not made like that and just be very careful with that velcro sometimes what I do is I put it on I velcro it and I move my velcro side to side

[01:07:14] just so that it catches a little bit more because some of them they will undo and explode them once they explode they're gone so especially with gusty conditions if you're getting into higher wind like the wind does definitely catches that wing and it'll toss it forward

[01:07:31] it'll toss it forward quite a bit oh yeah totally a few loser wing there's no air you're getting back to it unless it's super super light wing yeah they they just catch a little layer plan take

[01:07:44] off so well guys if nobody has any more questions we might wrap tonight's call up and what we can do next time is go into some even just getting on the board all those kind of

[01:07:55] different basics and safety basics as well kind of wrap in do the same thing kind of question format so we can do it just keep the floor open for a few more minutes and if not we'll we'll call

[01:08:07] the night and I'll see if I can catch a fairy or if I'm if I'm sleeping somewhere else tonight no me alright guys I think we're pretty much good then thanks a lot for joining us tonight

[01:08:29] if you have any questions through all them up in the forum as well more than happy to answer answer answer any specific questions for you and then even point you towards people that can't answer those questions if we can but we're building a pretty good community there so

[01:08:46] everybody's pretty stoked to help each other out so thanks a lot for joining and we will hopefully see them some of you next week. Thank you very much everyone. Absolutely thanks for your support and thank you for joining us on this episode of the Wing Life podcast

[01:09:18] on the next episode we're going to be talking about once again Wing Forlling basics going deeper down that rabbit hole helping you find the exact information you need to get it yourself on the water stay tuned and I'll see you next time