Episode #3- Wings & Boards (Video)

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing-foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Okay, thanks for joining us. Hey Tom, how's your day? Good, I did some sanding and some fearing on my book project today.

[00:00:30] I only did it right, so that was fun. Yeah, that's cool. I brought winter wooden. Got that stuff going to organize. Tom's in Martin Meep right now. He was living in Montreal and then Tim and his wife won a sailboat and they ended up sailing down there.

[00:00:44] So they're doing that dream right now, which is pretty amazing. Pretty amazing. So what we can do, and if you wanted to start, you could tell us a little bit about your where you're at.

[00:00:58] I know you had just set it before, but you could always just repeat where you're out in your kind of winging career. And then if you have here, if you're looking for gear and I can't think.

[00:01:09] Yeah, so yeah, I started last year to do some wing skiing on the other way over. And yeah, I saw that on Facebook. So it was really nice to do that. And this is my time to do it.

[00:01:28] I was away, but next summer it's my project just to go back this winter. I need to buy a wing for that and yeah, I'll make some of the underwater. Awesome. So you have a wing? No, I don't have a wing yet.

[00:01:49] OK, so you do have an idea which brand you're looking at by? I can't tell myself. I look at the silver brand, it's just yeah, what I wanted something that can see what the winter and the summer. OK. So yes, and something average for the wind.

[00:02:21] So I don't know what I was thinking about for 4.25. I'm wet and I'm five foot four, something like that. OK. OK. Oh, we're not allowed to ask, but how much do you weigh? Yeah. It pounds. I know idea. It's fine. 59. 59.

[00:02:50] I would definitely want towards the 4-2 if you're looking at a one wing, whoever. Yeah. But I guess since you're an auto on, you're going to be learning and trying to get up in the summer that maybe a five would work as well.

[00:03:09] But five four, tall, you can be tall enough to ride a five without really having much issues. A lot shorter, you might start having some issues. But I thought you should be a what have you tried so far? I tried on this on ski.

[00:03:27] I tried the 4-2 and I think it's five. But it's different than you into. I think that once when I was in 4-2, it was more windy than the first one. Yeah, that makes sense. And you have any idea which wing you tried, which challenge? I tried F1.

[00:03:52] I liked it. I think I tried the stinger, the green one. But I think I didn't love, I prefer the F1. I said, right? Right. And it's right by basically everybody that tries it, especially for a lighter rider, really does work for.

[00:04:21] So yeah, so I don't know which brand I better than all of those. I don't look at the difference between all of that. There's a lot of, there's a lot of variability in the brands. F1 is one of the leading companies I find for entry into the sport,

[00:04:39] for good power, high end and low end power. The handles are well positioned, they're very light. So overall, like that's the wing that I started on and I think Tom and I even started on some swings, which is the first version of the F1s.

[00:04:54] That's the first wing that I bought. So you will not go wrong with that company. They're also well. Are you an intermediate level wing foiler looking for an epic adventure this winter? If yes, I suggest you reserve your spot for the wing foil expedition, hosted by Agua Salada,

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[00:05:29] Five days of wing foiling and the best part over 100 kilometers of boat assisted downwinders. Just imagine the freedom and peace of mind that will provide. I look will be one of your wing foil coaches on this trip, so be a great time to knowly enjoy the downwinders,

[00:05:46] but also ask questions to approve your writing. Our trip will take you on different parts of Laventana and Baja that you would not otherwise be able to access without a boat. To learn more, visit winglifepodcast.com and click on trips in the main navigation menu.

[00:06:01] Once again, visit winglifepodcast.com and click on trips in the menu with only eight spots available. We know it's going to book up fast. So we recommend that you act quickly. I'll see you there. Right. And then today we tell Fairly, decently if you do wish to

[00:06:17] try a new version. And my mum, she's has a 4.2 and she was learning on that. So that was a good size. How wide-tawn was relating to live meter and sometimes if it's a shorter

[00:06:32] rider, sometimes the wing tips will actually touch the water and it's harder to get it going and it's harder to pump. That's why a smaller ring will be a little bit nicer. Especially in Ottawa as well because the winds do go up and down quite a bit.

[00:06:47] You want something that has good low end power. So by low end power, we mean that it could pump well, it generates power well and then it holds the power so there's other wings that are

[00:06:58] better higher end so they're not going to be as good for the low end distribution of power. So I mean this harder to learn on. Oh, yes, they don't, they don't work as well. Okay. And which one are those?

[00:07:12] Well, like Ocean rodeo, they're great wings but they don't they don't have as much power on the low end. Haven't striped stingy yet but a buddy did like them, but that's a set. What's that sort of?

[00:07:29] I don't know if I'd say that they have less power necessarily. They have a flatter canopy which means that you do need to pump more dynamically to get power out of them, which is not over as a beginner and that's where Luke is coming from.

[00:07:45] If we win the ferret beginner, having that they do have a very light feeling in your hands which is nice for smaller riders, especially if in gusty conditions or whatnot. So you know I think you can make it work with either a flat plurphata or deeper profile.

[00:08:03] You just have to size your wing appropriately to that. So if you're going with kind of a deeper profile wing that has a little bit more low end grunt and basically kind of fills with not that much wind and just starts pulling,

[00:08:16] then you can go with a bit of a smaller wing. If you're going with a flatter profile wing you're going to have to get something that's a little bit bigger.

[00:08:26] Yeah, so if you go with the F1 and F4 tube, probably be a decent option. If you're going with another company that has maybe a bit of a flatter profile, you can be looking more at maybe a

[00:08:36] F4 5 or a 5 row and that'll you know still have to be up for high end control. So you're going to be able to get a good range out of the sale and it's got a bit more surface areas to take

[00:08:50] off in a little bit of lighter wind as well. What do you think about the this tab or the wing? Have you tried those times? I haven't tried them. I have a good friend of mine that works in a shop in Florida that

[00:09:08] is a very good one. You also teach us and he's had a lot of teaching people what those wing. As they're very, very, so they have a lot of low end power. They're very stable.

[00:09:21] They just kind of pull you along and you pop up on the foil. They don't pump very well but because they're so deep and so powerful you don't really need to pump as much.

[00:09:33] So from what do you have a lot of success with those beginners? I think they have windows. Mind you, there's a couple of versions that I'll come out. I believe some of them have windows

[00:09:45] and that's something that you're going to want to look out for in winter conditions. When the windows get cold, they become a little bit brittle and they can crack when you're

[00:09:57] folding them. They don't take a very, you know, a lot of care to fold them really well. So that's something to consider. If you're thinking about a primary usage on snow at least to begin with, maybe a wing without windows would be a good option.

[00:10:15] Yeah, we don't really need windows in winter. No, and they will. A friend of mine has had one in Ottawa and they crack pretty quickly. Yeah, so they didn't want to long but no, I don't think I don't think you would have any problems with

[00:10:31] strike whatsoever. It's a beautiful wing and they are well priced and they're excellent beginner. So I don't think you would have any problems. I ride KT in Tom rides on wings. So just different

[00:10:47] ends. So it depends like the KT wings I really like as well, the handle they're long. They are a little bit heavier but they're very well constructed and I find they flag very well.

[00:10:59] So all the stuff that you'll be doing when you get after your first season in winging, there's certain wings that do that a little bit better than others. But I don't think you'll

[00:11:08] have any problems most of the guys that we're all riding in Ontario were all on strikes. So yeah, yeah, you'll only have to say about the F-1 wings is that they are their biggest priorities to have the lightest wing possible. That means that their construction

[00:11:27] is maybe not quite as durable as some other. So again using it in a snow application, we kind of tend to think of snow as this like soft kind of nice thing but it's actually very abrasive.

[00:11:40] And having a little bit of a section on the wing tips can be very helpful. So you and in person I know the on-winds have a pretty big KVLAR patch on the edges

[00:11:54] and they were developed in Quebec, snow-kiting being used on snow quite a bit from the first generation. So you know it's something to think about. There definitely was a name on kiteboarding. So it's full disclosure I work to develop wings with them. So I'm a little bit biased.

[00:12:16] Insighted. What's that, sir? That's an insider trading. It's that a trading, yeah. But I think that it's something that you know we really try to work on with our wings because it's as it is wings are fairly fragile things and the weight is just so

[00:12:36] important. Like the lighter you can make thing better at work, sugar, listen how good or bad your design is if you can make the wing light that's going to work a lot better. So it's really

[00:12:45] balance of using, you know the best materials that you can find for a reasonable price and then combining that with a decent shape. So I think that F1 has took basically all of the boxes

[00:12:56] possible with all of their models except for the durability box in my mind other than that fantastic wings. And those wings like the on I just checked them out here like the the

[00:13:09] formula is 675 something. Yeah so that's the other thing there I didn't want to do too much of a plug but oh well really. That's fine. Our pricing is pretty darn competitive so it's

[00:13:24] for kind of getting into the markets or trying to keep pricing low and we have a new version of the version three soon so the stock that's left over the version two is pretty heavily reduced. So yeah the fours and a girl are just under $700 a Canadian.

[00:13:44] Quite a bit cheaper than the most brands. Can you put them in a go-up site on in the chat box? Sure yeah I can do that actually here we can do it

[00:14:12] we can do a quick share as well I guess now that we're in a showcase this we can go over to the wings here on kiteboarding.com but here all of the wings. Let me see how it's going to be there.

[00:14:30] Yeah there we go okay I just put it in the chat. Okay so let's just take a quick look at the four meter so how's the leash on these things Tom? It's the one thing that I'm not super fond of

[00:14:46] you guys we're working on a new one for the next model. I'm actually not entirely sure what leash is supplied with the wings at the moment with a production ones but there that's the one thing I'm not super stoked about other than that. I think in that picture

[00:15:06] you can kind of see the Kevlarian for some of it on the front. On the wind tips you have nice couple of reinforcements as well right along the seams so they're quite solid and you can't

[00:15:17] really see it in this picture but on the kind of the side of the wind tip there's also Kevlarian forcements which is those kind of black happening so all of that just kind of works together to

[00:15:30] you know protect the most there you can see it a little better there to protect the most fragile parts of the wing while you know keeping weight down so you can see those patches are very

[00:15:42] localized and as small as possible so that they do their job without adding too much weight. So what's going on with the handles here we got like we got that. You can go

[00:15:54] set up we're actually modifying that for the V3 and we're gonna go with two rigid handles okay I have a check out of the way forward but what's kind of neat about this handle setup is that

[00:16:06] you have that intermediateary handle which I haven't seen on other wings and that when you're walking on the beach or flugging the wing especially in on short conditions gives you really really really good control over the wing and keeps the wing flying really well.

[00:16:20] In addition to you know going all the way forward to that front handle and the leaving edge might not be exactly what you want to do. Other than that the handles are fairly long so you can move

[00:16:33] their hands around and do what you want to want to do and we do have the why option some riders like that I personally don't but that's also an option there if you want to use it. Sure.

[00:16:50] One thing to mention know about these wings is that they have a relatively flat profile so they do need a bit more of a dynamic company to get going. Having said that I don't know if you

[00:17:04] can tell from the picture but the leading edge so that that inflatable part of the front and the boom and inflatable part of the middle are huge so they're very very stiff which means that when

[00:17:15] you do pump you don't really lose any energy it just kind of accelerates and you really take off. So it's a very it's a one that rewards pumping really well. Okay yeah nice yeah never had seen too many of them. Hopefully your you're still following

[00:17:36] here and the story of we're getting a little technical here and it's my experience but we're getting a little yeah a little techy but um so that's an option for you. I want to do is go over to Jesse's site really quick and show you the

[00:17:58] here the KT wings that I'm riding now and then we could always answer any questions about the districts as well. These wings are actually he has a couple here he has the due a ton of units

[00:18:10] which are a nice wing as well. The 22 is actually quite nice they're a bit more expensive but they are they are quite nice with with the handles I've flown in this year the canopy is quite

[00:18:24] tight and they do pump fairly well it was a big improvement from the first version of the due of it on let me see here where the other wings are here. The KT handles which is something that I have

[00:18:39] to get used to you're very long so I wonder if we can see KC here riding in beautiful Hawaii here. So the KT's have three handles but that first handle kind of like Tom like Tom's the on wings

[00:18:54] they have it to so they kind of spread it all the way to the top so this one has a very long front handle and has a very long back handle so the nice thing about that is that you can really choose

[00:19:04] I was out in in 25 not yesterday or the other two days ago in Victoria and I was able to put my front hand near the leading edge and then bring my back hand forward and it really decreased the power

[00:19:18] in the wing really well so that isn't always an assumption if you have longer handles or if the hand or if you have a third handle like on the on-wing so then you can you can handle more wind

[00:19:29] with the same wing because you're stuck to a six inch kind of moving around on this one it's like almost two feet or something that's a pretty long handle so that's always really nice and then these

[00:19:43] ones here this little center handle that you can see with little straps there that way you can kind of when you get a little bit more used to it you can kind of flag out that wing and ride

[00:19:52] one hand it which is kind of nice as well so that's always an option too to get used to stuff I started doing that a little bit more this year when I was surfing a little bit so that is one

[00:20:04] wing that I ride for them so I'm on the opposite thing so it's the same thing that will be a little bit um but just because that's the gear we ride so that's the gear we like but

[00:20:16] hi great can we hear you? No what you can do that's okay what you can do is it's post post some questions in the group on there and or what you could do is um did you want to just try

[00:20:39] to call call me and we can talk on the phone and we can kind of be here you or if not we could always just post questions on the group and we could always just answer them for you so if you decided

[00:21:00] and what kind of board you were thinking to getting and we're kind of not at all okay you have a lot of options there you have a lot of options for files

[00:21:12] a lot of options for boards um for the last two groups we kind of ask people what they started with if I haven't started yet so I don't know I just I'm sorry what I meant to say was that

[00:21:27] we asked them what gear they started with and why they liked it so it'll depend on I guess it depends on a bunch of factors depends on how much you want to spend if you want to find

[00:21:39] some use gear if you want to find you if you want your foils to last you a couple years or if you want to get something cheaper just to see if you like it there's a bunch of different factors that

[00:21:50] tie into to picking the gear because what I did as I started on a kit that was great and then I used it for a year and a half and then I ended up selling and upgrading my foils to the same

[00:22:01] foil that I'm using now um and then same with the board I've been through three boards so far in three years so my first board was 105 later I'm 150 pounds so I used 105 later board at the

[00:22:15] start that was wind-surfable and wingo bowl so it was a combo board so I used a wizard 105 and then I switched to a quadru 80 later and then I went down to a 72 and Tom's going to tell me

[00:22:28] I should be riding a 52 but that's okay cold okay so that's what I did now Tom what was your progression of your boards if you don't mind yeah so I I was getting into it when wind boards didn't

[00:22:47] just yet so we didn't really have the option of riding a wind specific board so you're just going to road what what we had and at that point I learned on a subfoil board with a really huge one

[00:23:04] 145 liters 7 feet long cutting and that sounds massive but it's actually ridiculously easy to learn on because it's super stable it's long so it kind of has really good speed on the water

[00:23:22] and tracks and a straight line really well so hour in the wing you're generated into forward motion really easily and not thing just you know anybody to get on that foil so you know if you're

[00:23:39] there's other people around you that are looking to learn how to win as well other members of the family or whatnot that could be an option to consider having said

[00:23:50] that that kind of a board is not going to be a great thing to progress on long term because at a certain point it's just going to become big and cumbersome especially as a smaller person if the board's

[00:24:02] really long the size adds weight as well so a smaller board might just be easier to maneuver to just walk down to the beach getting out of the water all that kind of stuff so what in

[00:24:17] necessarily recommend that as you know if only you learn it you want to keep the board for a little while that's not the best move after that I played with some wind surf just windsurf or

[00:24:32] lingboa is kind of like looped it and then I use some prone surf boiling boards to get onto something a little bit smaller and you know since then wingboards became a possibility so I've been

[00:24:44] writing knows I wrote that the KT I'm writing KT wing sorry the drifter full now which is prone surf board prone is kind of paddle in like a surf board and I have a wind drifter 80

[00:25:02] which is the same board that Luke was writing the cultural board so those are really great probably both are not really board secure again I want to be looking at right away because

[00:25:15] they're a little bit more advanced so that's the drifter full right there that looked full up so you can see it's like a really small little board so four eight meters and then the bigger sizes

[00:25:31] you know you start getting into something a little bit more easy to ride around 90 liters remember five liters having settled that though these boards are kind of intermediate to advanced boards if you don't have any boards for the experience at all

[00:25:48] which is actually a good question do you have any boards for the experience? Did you went surf or a kite before this, did you surf? No. No, okay we're going to make Enya what is that what's the option that you saw Greg that just slingshot something?

[00:26:12] Yeah the stretch thread sled from slingshot that could be an option um if you're looking at something sand to begin with there was I think the first generation of J.P. subfoil boards I want to say they're around

[00:26:31] seven feet on a quite light and they're a little bit narrow and those are really the easiest ride and I'm sure you could find something like that used for not too much money

[00:26:44] because they're kind of not very useful unless you're going to be subfoil and then nobody really subfoils in Ontario or very few people but you can see that they have their kind of

[00:26:59] foil box really far forward and they're fairly narrow and drawn out and it's kind of the direction a lot of boards are going these days a little bit instead of going with that ultra compact

[00:27:13] shape if you have a little bit more length to take that so it makes it a lot easier when you're learning oh probably I don't remember the the volumes prior heart okay here is the

[00:27:28] hour and then there's seven oh would probably be what you're looking at at your side now it would be a really good option or you know 126. I forget which one I tried one of these

[00:27:41] kind of early on when they are coming out is seven or the seven two I don't remember which one I was really impressed with it I thought that it pumped quite well it felt a lot smaller than

[00:27:51] it was in the air and it was really efficient for these issues so something in that kind of if you can find that used and not it's too much money for it that'd be a fantastic first part

[00:28:03] otherwise Starboard has some really good wind boards that are a little bit longer again and just a little bit more user friendly so that's that's also another good option

[00:28:27] let me know anytime if this is too much of something I can go on for hours so yeah we can just look at it and just look at it years always thoughtful at see what Starboard has in their

[00:28:40] side here okay so we're going to have more boards and play the balls huge hard boards all right where are there's is it the hyper now or the surf foil there's a hyper foil which looks a little bit racy yeah that's the one oh the wind yeah

[00:29:29] is it a little bit more what is it what's in in fated one I don't think that's a good thing what I don't know if it's a little bit actually I personally not a big fan of them I think that there is certain ones that are

[00:29:50] decent but they're not really a great beginner board because they're not very forgiving when you touch back down on the water and they kind of stick to the water so they make it harder

[00:30:01] to take off and you're less stable on them as well there's always a little bit of that movement for your feet a little bit of a wobble and to be able to be stiff enough they're really really thick so they put you up really high

[00:30:18] above the water with the board less stable as well if you can avoid the inflatable boards I would definitely recommend to do that yeah in these starboard boards and it gets the six seven or something to that effect that would be the size that you're looking at

[00:30:41] yeah so we have a six seven okay the six seven 28 wide yeah sounds like a good like a great size for somebody who doesn't have any boards for experience yeah I don't know to get into it here it is okay so the six three one two

[00:31:06] these guys are that's 6 350 liters is probably what you're looking for yeah and then foils range foils range on a lot of it can be cost it that depends on how much you want to spend I learned on slingshot in section 9 now I write Armstrong

[00:31:36] the Armstrong foils are like the cattle lack of foils I find so for that especially because I write insult water quite a bit now that very very nice that those screws don't ever get sticky then our oxidized nothing happens which is amazing with the carbon

[00:31:55] and titanium so that's why I spent a little bit of money and I spent it early and I was like I'm trying to get a good kid and then I'll forget about it

[00:32:03] yeah that's one option there are a little bit more but there are some popping up used nice of aides um it all depends if you're going to sell primarily Ottawa then any kind of foil works and then it

[00:32:16] you can come down to how much you want to weigh and you can get as technically as you want but you will be able to find some decent foils on the class of ibs in the run the Ottawa Toronto kind of area

[00:32:27] that might be selling for I think we're sold maybe one or the decent slingshot kit for about a thousand so it depends on how much you want to spend and what the size is there are we thinking for well let's hop over to another

[00:32:46] centimeters I'd say squared surface area for that front wing for you and that would probably be a good size to it's alert on and you're going to once you get more proficient you're going to want a bit of a smaller front wing

[00:32:59] but that bigger wing is going to stay as good light wind option actually my buddy in Ottawa is selling let me see if I can find it here um he is selling a aluminum

[00:33:20] a blood he is selling in 99 which is a pretty big wing which would be great probably a big one to learn on I just don't know if I can yeah it's a pretty good way to learn on though as much as it's big it's

[00:33:35] we're called the hover glide system let's see if we have the hover glide here and then okay what it goes over to silence sports and on sports has most stuff uh foiling the what was the other one Neil prides were pretty good to it not like I think

[00:34:12] max started riding those at the start and I kind of liked them they weren't too good yeah Neil prides had a pretty decent run of foils that were basically copies of the early generation gofoil and then they kind of modified and went from there

[00:34:29] you just have to make sure that it's not really early race for us from them which are pretty distinctive so you're probably not going to find those anyways because never really worth that but the that general that glide generation

[00:34:44] of Neil prides foils yeah it's quite easy to use it's a well made system there's a bunch of different wing size options so if you can find that that would be a good foiling

[00:34:55] found for a while so you could probably get pretty decent prices on it um i as much as I like this slingshot hover glide system if you can if you have the money to spend a little bit more

[00:35:10] and buy a system that you can then kind of keep progressing with i would definitely recommend that you don't necessarily have to go with a full carbon you know I'm stronger or whatever

[00:35:22] yes that's a little bit more um that gives you a little bit more room to develop the slingshot system is I think great for what it is if you want to buy a kit that you'll

[00:35:40] learn on and then they themselves somebody else at the beginner i think it's a great system that works but you are a little bit limited by just how the foil is built once you improve a little bit

[00:35:53] and it's quite heavy so for a small fighter it's maybe not necessarily the best option I think that when we can i were learning it was one of the only good options that wasn't carbon

[00:36:08] options have come up since then that are that are quite good as well so if you're looking at new i would say you know maybe getting a bit of a better system like that neoprid system or

[00:36:24] access has some new aluminum foils on actually has a decent aluminum foil but we don't have a uh yeah we just have a 7. I heard about the Tacoma you think about it?

[00:36:39] I've never tried it um i've heard very good things about it and i think that they're a fairly well designed system it's definitely a better you know mass juicer that those early slingshots

[00:36:53] and they have a lot of different wing sizes so i think that's that's the system that would be interesting to look into for sure I saw some arms strong stuff on the wood store do you

[00:37:10] well that's a good question as well is there a store that you normally buy from right i guess if you're just starting not yet yeah we just need to get our nine okay um here let me let me just quickly scroll here for you because

[00:37:26] i thought i saw something the only thing about this classified is that it doesn't allow you to search very well. I may have to grab my charger my laptop start to get you know but let me see if

[00:37:39] I can quickly find something he was so so it's no good. It's in my big Tom um a friend of ours Thomas and Ottawa he has an access foil that he likes i could always be something that you could look at to see if you'd like them um

[00:38:00] stab foils a lot of friends lead rods saw and they like them yeah that's a really good setup there it's basically the earlier design the of subfoil was called Moses and those wings were very very

[00:38:14] very good earlier generation slingshot wings but on a considerably better mass than choose a so that's that's a good system to look at for sure and i actually know the guy posting on

[00:38:27] their Andre first some way and he's a good guy so if i don't know what size foil it is that he's selling but that could be a decent option for you to consider. Oh if you want to smoke a T-board

[00:38:42] I'm not selling that's mine let me see here i found it was a full iron strong kit but it was a little bit small it was a 1250 something bigger would be nice but that was selling with two grand used

[00:38:58] so it depends on if they would be willing to sell it without that front way you're all show it to you it depends on java ballpark of what you'd like to spend no that's really it just

[00:39:12] if you want to do whatever you want like this could always be 60 i use 72 mass to make condition so if you had like a bigger obviously this would be going catalog from the start

[00:39:35] but if he was willing to sell this kit without that wing get a bigger wing that could be an excellent start or if you wanted to spend a bit more you could start with this and just buy

[00:39:46] a bigger wing separate but that would be probably close to three grand but it's a 60 fuse you got a good i think he's even selling two tails now so that I think the biggest benefit that you get

[00:40:04] out of line for like that is the weight because compared to a solid well-being weight of that system you're maybe not a half the weight but you're not far so it's a really

[00:40:18] big difference in weight but it is also double the price you know so yeah i do think that if you look at kind of you know wings and boards and four all that kind of stuff you can very quickly

[00:40:36] spend quite a bit of money yeah if you're looking you know where's the best idea to invest money from the beginning i would say before is probably what you want to what is the difference

[00:40:54] in H a and H s the high speed in the oh well it's not just high aspect versus medium or lower aspect so H s is also high aspect on the Armstrong's yeah let me see here they have gone to a

[00:41:19] little bit more high aspects of wider and narrower H s it looks like a more medium aspect I think it depends on which inversion you're looking at the same H s 1050

[00:41:34] they just in 50 I would have to go on their side or do you want H s with the arm what's a little bit confusing with Armstrong is that they have they don't come out with

[00:41:50] or they didn't come out with full wing line all at the same time they came out with two or three sizes at a time and so and their earlier wings like this H s 1250 for example

[00:42:03] it's it's a little bit hard to tell where that wing kind of fits in because this generation of H s that you're looking at is kind of in that mid mid aspect ratio a little bit mid high aspect

[00:42:16] ratio and other H s wings can be mid lower aspect ratio so anyways there it can get a little bit confusing the bottom line is that you don't want to get really thick low aspect foil and

[00:42:32] you don't want to get a really thin pia aspect foil either you want something around that middle range that's kind of the most versatile most easy to use when you're starting there's a lot of talk about pia aspect foils right now and I think for what you're

[00:42:50] for your concerns at least for the first year to that's not something you should really consider but if you're getting a foil and you're thinking about the future a little bit more

[00:43:05] than having a system like Armstrong or like some that we were looking at before it just gives you a lot of options later on so you can get those higher aspects later or not hopefully that

[00:43:26] makes sense to you recommend any brand for like a medium lesson honestly I think that there's a lot of good stuff out there today if you're looking at you gear most of it is fairly easy to

[00:43:46] learn on most of it is fairly decent if you're looking at used stuff earlier generation used stuff and we were talking about the earlier generation the old pride stuff which is pretty good

[00:44:02] this linshot have a glide system which was pretty good you know if you want to spend a little bit more money on it there's there's Armstrong which is fantastic but expensive there's also lift

[00:44:17] the uh there's a carbon foil again but a little bit more affordable so she can find some of those as a good option um I wrote the fanatics this year for my most teaching on these ones

[00:44:32] they were okay like they certainly it was low but my students like them yeah they're not very heavy um they're they're solid like they're their well built so that's true the fanatic air-o series is quite it works well it's a good system yeah I did it's a great

[00:44:58] of the way of the Armstrong is unbelievable how light they are and how well they glide um actually one of the buddy in mind that was on a late in northern Vancouver Island this summer

[00:45:13] he had a first generation stinger foil which was same with all the first generations but he hopped on that one and I tried that one and I had a really hard time getting it going because it was so

[00:45:25] slow good for what it was he learned really well on it but um but to swap over obviously if you're going to combine a Cadillac you get all the Cadillac traits right but have you ever tried the

[00:45:40] reading the Friday Tinnon? I haven't no. There's a pretty new one on the market yeah it's I haven't tried it either I personally wouldn't buy that foil the reason why is that a reading is not

[00:45:59] a foil company um what I'm trying to say by that is that reading makes cites and they make wings and they make all kinds of stuff um if you're looking at a new foil I would look at something

[00:46:13] that's made by a company that's making only foils or at least foils for a while the reason being is that they'll have a well established mask and fuselage system and so in the future when you

[00:46:26] want a smaller wing or you want to hire us trick-waring on another wing altogether for the foil you won't have to buy a full setup you can just buy that frontboard as opposed to engine the whole kit

[00:46:40] so I'd be wary of companies that uh like reading for example only have one size wing or two sizes of wings and are not really uh you know not the focused on making only foils unless you're looking at

[00:46:58] kind of an entry you know first foil you're okay with selling it as a full kit maybe with a really beginner board in a year or two and buying something else I thought that that boy

[00:47:09] sure that becomes more of a little bit of an option this one for 2,100 is not bad like the one that we were looking at for Armstrong here like he's selling two tails like this

[00:47:36] tail is about $300 new he's selling this tail which is what I learned on the 150 pounds it was a it's a 23.2 232 you are getting is this the V2 fuse everything here is the V1 well that's the V1 V1 okay so to be one which is the same that I'm

[00:47:59] which is the honest yes just screws we'll never matter for me oh if you're riding them bigger high-ass big wings especially if you want to jump it or if you're a heavier rider than yeah potentially but even the V1 mass system like that is more

[00:48:17] solid than basically any other foil in the market so no two can sort of look at that so that is that option for not two of these and Armstrong for KBS a competitor that would be compatible right if we want to if we do whatever

[00:48:42] what's uh or compatible yeah I tried I tried the V2 1550 or my V1 I was planning I think I also tried the 925 life this summer and it was fine as well I think they are yeah

[00:48:55] yeah yeah oh let's say I buy a like if we want a fuse rod and then we later I buy V2 from wing and the every that's that it's gonna be they're gonna be competitive right with all

[00:49:09] these ones yes they are the is kind of the first ones the jumped on this concept where they basically develop their mass and fuse lodge before developing their foils and the idea was that

[00:49:26] if you make a good mass and a good fuse lodge with good connections they won't need to upgrade that system in the future and at Apple you can you know invest a little bit more and a good mass

[00:49:39] in a good fuse lodge and just keep upgrading the wings as that technology evolves and to keep with that mantra and to keep with that kind of you know idea of not having to change anything the V2 stuff is still completely backwards compatible with the V1

[00:50:02] no problem at all go foil which we kind of went over Luke and a scrolled over there also is all kind of forward the backwards compatible which is really nice and that's a good

[00:50:15] system what is the main difference between we are an MP2 so the V2 arm strong stuff has extra bolts basically to kind of stabilize the mass the fuse lodge connection and the front wing

[00:50:31] to fuse lodge connection and the idea was that if you're a bigger rider and you're riding higher aspect wings which have a much higher force on them or they apply a much bigger force

[00:50:46] on the whole system than these earlier generation medium to lower aspect wings did then they just wanted to stabilize that joint a little bit even more again if you're not a huge rider

[00:51:03] riding huge wings are not really really pushing jump in and stuff like that this is a totally fine setup as the V1 and I grow as far as saying if it's a better setup as the V1 then most

[00:51:19] systems out there today so I wouldn't worry that that all is left to be as a first where are you in your progression brine oh i started with the home setup i started with a

[00:51:39] low aspect and i just played to medium aspect i'm riding a 1500 the scarce inch meters from me and i really enjoyed and maybe next year i will get the house but high aspect like a 900

[00:51:56] square centimeters okay yeah for now 1500 is a great for me yeah i think that it's don't don't rush into getting into those high aspect wings necessarily i think it depends on what you enjoy when you're winning not necessarily everybody enjoys the feeling of a high aspect

[00:52:20] wings you don't have to go on that direction it's not that you know all the good riders are going high aspect wings and that's the natural progression i think that there's different styles of riding

[00:52:31] and you know aspect wings are very popular right now because they're new and they're allowing you do things that you couldn't do on medium aspect and lower aspect wings but they're not necessarily better you know it's just a little cooler when people carry their

[00:52:46] body with the high aspect it looks wow it is amazing all do the same there's definitely the cool factor yeah better but i think realistically speaking you know a lot of people end up buying gear that's two bands for them or they buy a brace

[00:53:08] on you know what they think they should be riding as opposed to you know realistically what their levels at and to be you know totally honest you're going to have a lot more fun if you

[00:53:22] kind of buy something that fits your level um i'll give you an example i'm riding the CF 1200 as my main foil from Armstrong and the CF series is kind of like their entry level easiest foil

[00:53:36] to ride and i've been riding that for three years and i absolutely love it and i enjoy it more than a lot of the newer foil so that i've tried so it's not necessarily because it's new

[00:53:48] and you know trendy that it's going to work better for you. That's a good point tell me I've started riding in the 1550 first version of Armstrong and i've tried the V2 i've tried the higher it's like 925 or 950 and i love the first version 1550 it gets me up

[00:54:07] in next to no wind and it still performs because i'm running a 1 foil quiver right now i haven't purchased any other front wings and for what i'm doing it's perfect like i wrote this smaller foil

[00:54:21] i need a more speed to get up. So i lost some low end on it it did it did fly very very well like glit and i was gliding very very well but i was still pretty happy with my first version

[00:54:36] so you don't necessarily need as Tom said to go in and get the newest and brightest um i was i love this surf capability of that foil and and so far i'm still riding it

[00:54:49] um i've tried the V2 just to see and i found it was a little bit wider so i did not turn that as quickly for that bigger foil so i prefer mine so yeah this is good point i'm going to

[00:55:05] chop my my tail though in the 232 i'm going to chop it down a little bit so i'll turn a little bit better but the rest of it i'm happy. This is a very good point i've been riding with the lowest

[00:55:16] back to 2100 the square centimeters okay and also a tag out in the tag and the curve very easily and i switched it to low medium aspect the 1500 i took much less than my old one

[00:55:36] yeah i'm not used to yet but i don't know what's the most easy thing to do with low aspect see i found the opposite because i was so used to riding a medium aspect that turned on the

[00:55:47] dime it's like riding a civic versus riding a bigger bus so i had a hard time even on the school foil this summer when i took it out because my body went to turn and then my foil didn't

[00:55:57] turn so i go and fall off the slide oh right i can't turn this thing so i had to initiate the turn and it's like okay if it's like you're riding a big jet so if you're used to that then yes the 1550

[00:56:11] medium will turn a lot faster so then as soon as you initiate your turn your board will turn and that will be harder at the start of 100%. Because i bought the medium aspect with a long

[00:56:24] like 95 centimeters length okay maybe this the reason i cannot turn as fast as my low aspect yeah i just took a little more than there's a low motion and i got the low motion okay just to make sure i can take off a faster

[00:56:48] because of reason i cannot take it. I think that's the easier as the other one. There's a lot of different parameters to win design apart from just the aspect ratio and i think

[00:57:00] looking at it is just you know high aspect medium aspect ball aspect is a little bit of an over simplification realistically of the situation but you know if you want to if you're

[00:57:12] kind of thinking about how well does this is going to turn and all of that i think the wingspan is a better indication of general speaking than the aspect ratio or even the surface

[00:57:24] of the wing so if you're just going to throw out a number let's say your lower aspect ratio wing that was say 2000 square centimeters and it was 90 centimeters wide for example if you throw in something that's 1500 square centimeters but as a meter wide then it's not

[00:57:50] necessarily going to turn even better and it might actually be less turning than your bigger wing that you know you thought all if you downsize you're going to get more turning more active so not necessarily but anyways all to say i think i didn't catch what foil system

[00:58:09] you're on right now is it are you still on the gun system yeah yeah so gun has a huge amount of front wings and tailwinds and fuselage lengths and stuff like that

[00:58:21] and there's a lot that you can do if you want to if you like you know the glide and the speed of that higher or medium aspect 1500 but you want it to turn a little bit better you can change the tailwind

[00:58:34] for example um to a smaller tailwind and it's going to make it faster and it's going to make it more turning or you can shorten the fuselage and it's going to make the hook the setup a lot more

[00:58:48] there's actually a lot of fine tuning that can be done to accomplish the feel that you're looking for but more especially yeah so the way that it generally works is the longer the fuselage

[00:59:08] the slower everything happens and it really stabilizes the altitude control so the up and down if you have a long fuselage then it's going to be very stable up and down and all kind of

[00:59:25] banking and turning is going to be slow down so you're going to have a delayed reaction on other things if you have a short fuselage everything becomes a lot more lively everything happens faster

[00:59:36] and the up and down stability is going to be less easy to maintain the tailwind has a similar relationship where basically the bigger it is the more it stabilizes everything so everything

[00:59:51] happens slower it also has more drag so you're going to be moving slower as well and it's going to stabilize a lot the roll so the left and right kind of motion of the foil can do so I do feel like

[01:00:07] for example you're on a foil that's very stable and in roll so left and right and it's to be able to turn more and bank more then getting a smaller tailwind is going to be able to

[01:00:23] is going to allow you to kind of roll that foil over and and bank it harder without losing a lot of up and down stability if you find that your foil is very very stable up and down

[01:00:39] and it's not that stable in terms of roll left and right and you can shorten the fuselage and you gain more reactivity without losing more stability left and right if that makes sense. So some more of a step you can drive faster and control better than people want.

[01:01:16] Does it make sense? The smaller tailwing well, why is it so far as it does allow you to turn yes, yeah absolutely little faster that's on the Armstrong it lasts like there's no

[01:01:28] I think the cutaway version and it did turn a little bit. Sorry my reception is really really bad you guys kind of cut up or you mind repeating that. He's just asked whether or not like if you're

[01:01:48] going to change is the tailwing the easiest thing to change to be able to turn a bit faster later. Yeah probably that's probably going to be the easiest thing to change first and then if you change

[01:02:06] it and you find that it's not it's not doing enough that you're not turning as much as you want to be turning still then you can also shorten the fuselage. The other thing that you can also

[01:02:18] do is shim the tail differently I don't know if you're like with this or not, but basically more neutral the tail angle is the less the tail has an effect on the front wing

[01:02:33] and the less it stabilizes the foot so if you shim your tail it's about it has a more neutral angle when you draw I mean more parallel to the fuselage then you're going to have a faster foil

[01:02:46] that's more reactive without even changing your tail and changing the trim angle of that rear wing by one degree is going to make a huge difference already on the right so that's

[01:03:00] not really the easiest thing that you can do on the least expensive and then after that it's going enough without it's the flair. So you're saying from like a zero degree to a one degree

[01:03:12] we'll make it get more loose and a little faster and all that yeah quite a bit one thing that's worth mentioning is that every company except for own strong and I have no idea why they do this

[01:03:26] but basically Armstrong's plus one for example plus one degree or plus two degrees is actually a minus one degree or minus two degrees which makes absolutely no sense of her

[01:03:41] the owner of the company tried to explain it a few times it makes no sense they should just change the way that they do their annotation because every other company when you have a plus one for a

[01:03:51] minus one it adds more tilt or reduce his tilt so you're adding more degrees or removing more degrees whereas Armstrong it's the opposite tricks absolutely no sense but anyways all to say removing a degree or adding a degree either way it makes a huge difference on how the

[01:04:15] four-alright's not to regard this of what company you're writing what four-alright in what tail when you're on it really does make a huge difference. So yeah for me you can add a new

[01:04:25] degree can you do it or you have the purchase and you so I'm not familiar with the gone system I don't know which one that you have I'm not mistaken that has two screws on the tail one right

[01:04:44] let me see if I can find you know what which one you have right I've afraid the XRT you have to move it if it can you have your stabilizer has two screws

[01:05:02] holding it down and the stabilizer is on top of the fuel ice right that's right okay so if you want the foil to be more reactive and faster but you can really you can put a small shame like

[01:05:18] it's not like the thickest credit card for example or something like that under the front screw of the tail wing okay well wrongs for you okay so is it okay so here's

[01:05:41] do they have shims on their gums? I don't know if they have them or not but basically the idea is that you're adding thickness either in the oh no you can't trim that you can't trim it one piece

[01:05:56] that foil you can't trim but I think the thing is that screws that hold the actual wing onto the fuselage but if your foil if your tail wing kind of slides onto the fuselage and then it's locked

[01:06:10] in place by two screws like the one that Luke just showed in the picture you can't trim them there's no shimming happening there. Is it a one piece is it a one piece Brian is that

[01:06:27] the tail that you have? Yeah I'm telling you one piece yeah okay yeah you can't here I'll show you I don't know if you have the shims if they have the shims in their website here

[01:06:41] yeah they do yeah but I think it's really the most companies the way that they mount their their wings either tail wings onto the fuselage just two screws through the actual wing

[01:06:58] itself and the wing is sitting on top or underneath the fuselage and the screws go through it you sort of through the large and if that's the case then you can add a little washer or a

[01:07:12] little piece of credit card or anything to just give you a little bit of a gap between the fuselage and the tail wing either in the front or the back and that changes the angle of

[01:07:27] attack with that wing and I thought the gong has to just like that as well maybe they maybe it's just a different system or the one that you got and by doing this you're not going

[01:07:47] to change the before you know no there's no problem in doing that just keep in mind that again one degree or even half a degree makes a lot of difference so don't add a shim that's three

[01:08:04] millimeters thick you know like you want something that's maybe half a millimeter to a millimeter not even even a millimeter is a lot so you know really really small increments and as long as you

[01:08:17] do that you still have lots of screw going into the fuselage and you're not going to have any issues if you tried to add like a half an inch or something like that yeah you're going to have a problem

[01:08:34] that help a little bit brand yeah the herbs to for the mask I was writing it's just a five centimeters and I upgraded to 90 centimeters and I found this much easier to glide

[01:08:52] I can go up I can go up and down really a lot with the shoulder mask I sometimes I wipe out the easily because of the big waves or yeah for sure no mask I found it is really more than a minute

[01:09:11] minute walker definitely so I think that the you're kind of at the two ends of the spectrum with the 65 being very short and the 90 being fairly long I think that around 80 is probably

[01:09:27] a really good middle ground that's still fairly tiny without being you know super short which makes it less easy to ride as you found so basically the longer the mask is the more margin for air you have

[01:09:43] and the shorter it is the more direct the foil feels and the more reactive and turning it feels I have both the 72 and an 83 mask I the vast majority of the time I ride the 72

[01:09:57] just because I prefer how it feels but it definitely gives you a lot less margin for air than the three that you can fly a little bit higher the foil could be a little bit deeper under water

[01:10:10] just have more margin for air basically right actually in the beginning I made a mistake when I praise on older I put change the surf for which is 65 centimeters and then later I other just a mask 90 centimeters yeah that's really good especially with you know systems

[01:10:36] like gone that have so many different options on moan and it's a really good thing because you can play around you can buy different wings you can try all kinds of different stuff without having to

[01:10:46] change the whole foil system but on the other hand it's you know hard when you're when you're starting especially with an online company like gone where you have more of it less customer support or maybe a little bit less direction when you're looking at stuff initially

[01:11:05] so it can be definitely hard to know what should I be buying out of these 15 different wing and 20 different mass options yeah yeah but but circling back to your you know reading foil

[01:11:22] question I think coming off of a system like gone which is a fairly decent entry to middle level foil with a lot of different options and wings and stuff like that I really don't see the

[01:11:35] interesting going to reading I think if you're gonna change companies or change foil system go with a full carbon system that's you know out of a reputable company that's really developing a lot

[01:11:48] and there's a number of those but definitely go with a company that's been added for a while and it is going to develop because the next kind of mass fuselage system that you invest into

[01:12:01] you're probably gonna keep it quite hard. I'm sure we said the overpriced for what you get I'm sure you still like a top quality. I completely actually I think that it's actually if you're looking at a high end carbon foil it's basically the same price as everything else

[01:12:25] and it's a much much better construction it's they've put a lot more attention into choice of materials so that they don't corrode and they don't use overtime their connections are better made than the other companies and their veins are better built. They're really solid

[01:12:47] really light and they come out to about the same price as any other high end carbon foil which is not cheap we're definitely on the same page there it's not a cheap foil but I think

[01:13:01] in terms of you know over under price that I don't find it over price at all I think that it's what a high quality carbon foil costs and it's kind of the best system on the market

[01:13:11] I think. Yeah and just by the way I'm not I paid for my Armstrong foil I'm not sponsored by them or anything like that. I paid for mine too 2500 yeah yeah there is that foil in the class

[01:13:27] five for twenty wine which is a pretty decent it's a pretty decent price for what you're gonna yeah and actually at the level that you're at Brian you didn't really say what how much

[01:13:37] you weigh but that 1250 HS wine is super super versatile that's a kind of a one-wing quiver that works really well the 72 masks maybe a tiny bit short but definitely doable and it has two tailwings

[01:13:53] so you can kind of play around with it and yeah that's actually pretty good a pretty good deal it could be interesting for you okay he says can 2100 yeah yeah I'll try to find it on here for you

[01:14:09] it's on the plumb of class of five so I think it's yeah I'm looking at it okay how does it be a little block from me so yeah he's a ball here he's pretty far in Quebec

[01:14:20] well actually unless they come out to sandbags or anything this fall we'll have to see if they ever come out but I thought there was one more Armstrong for sale you could check out the Armstrong

[01:14:33] there's an Armstrong foil group as well right I've seen a Armstrong on Facebook and there's there's a ton of stuff for sale on there a lot of people are stepping to the V2 staff for

[01:14:46] have been so there's a lot of V1 stuff for sale now how much do you weigh though Brian are we 140 pounds 64 pounds yeah okay yeah so that 1250 would be kind of like

[01:15:01] easily a one-wing quiver for you no problem okay yeah okay so this is HAA 925 so this is a high-orescathed right I tried this on this spring I just a body of mine had it and I want to see if

[01:15:19] I get the wing tips out and continue on my curve and my turn obviously you can um because the medium aspect if I get the tip out of the water I fall but it was a super

[01:15:30] nice wing I did like it I just didn't like the fact that I had to go faster to get going and I do love the the slow stall speed of my 15 I just love the fact that I could chuck along it like four knots

[01:15:43] not so far foil but this thing was awesome it was super fun I just needed to spend more time on it and that's all yeah I think that Armstrong's high aspect wings are a little bit more advanced

[01:15:58] than a lot of the other higher aspect wings out there on the market today um which means not necessarily that they're better uh just that they're harder to ride and so I wouldn't if you're

[01:16:13] looking at an Armstrong and you're thinking about you know like what wings am I looking at in our sprung specifically I don't think that I would recommend the higher aspect wings wait till the second generation high aspect wings come out they're going to be easier to ride

[01:16:27] and they'll be probably not really ready for it. There was super tricky I've been riding for three years so I was able to kind of get up and it was almost like a bit of a fucking bronco at the start

[01:16:38] and then I got it figured out but um it's definitely a lot more technical to ride you got to have more speed it it is twitchy um you're up and down it's twitchy the board slaps back down on the water

[01:16:51] if you're not going fast enough um but it was super fun when I was riding but it was definitely it was definitely a lot more technical agreed yeah there are there are some higher aspect

[01:17:04] wings that are not that hard to ride though um you know like access for example has their ART wings and even their you know uh BSC and all that stuff there are not high aspects they're

[01:17:20] fairly high aspect and those wings are way way way easier to ride so you know there there are options out there that are higher aspect and easier ride but I think if you like that kind of

[01:17:32] 20 surf you feeling you're gonna have a hard time finding stuff that's much better than the Armstrong um if you're looking for something a little bit less expensive though because they are

[01:17:46] expensive I think go foil could be something to look at if you can find something used go foil you not that could be interesting you know a little bit harder to come by in Canada especially

[01:17:58] but that could be an option and the other one is lift lift is a company out of Puerto Rico that makes some really good foils and those are really good bang for your back and they work quite well

[01:18:13] yeah lift is a quite big in Quebec too yeah it's uh 13 knots as uh allowance push them hard and for a while and for good reason I mean they're good foils and they're cheap and yeah

[01:18:26] where they're quite popular for a kai foil yeah yeah yeah yeah I think they initially when they came out there were almost the same price as a high-end aluminum but full carbon and light

[01:18:40] and well built and good foils so it was kind of a no-brain on you know but having said that I do still think that the Armstrong fuselage must are a better system than the lift there's

[01:18:57] stiffer they're gonna last longer you know that's why I was saying before then I don't find that it's over price I think it's just a different product that comes with the price that

[01:19:06] it comes with because what it is okay so the guys is selling uh HS250 with the two step fuselage and must for a turbo 100 is a good deal you found. I don't have enough sure

[01:19:25] I haven't been in Canada for a little bit so I don't know what the retail rate prices are now with COVID and inflation and all that fun stuff I honestly don't know what retail is

[01:19:39] I'm generally speaking news Armstrong stuff if it's in good shape or the at minus 25 to 40% from retail so if it's in that 25 to 40% off of retail it's in a decent shape then yeah that sounds fair but at the kifors the same setup they're selling for like a 3500

[01:20:04] so the sound sports here in Toronto on the screen you got the HS250 with an 8500 this is three grand. Oh, he's adding a two step. He's adding a lot of stuff.

[01:20:20] Yeah it's about 300 I think for a few uh for a um of course they realize it so yeah that sounds to be like it's about you know 30 35% off that sounds good yeah yeah you want to know

[01:20:33] yeah that would actually be a pretty decent pretty decent setup because you're looking at this three grand plus tax it'd be 3300 plus tax for a new and normally silence their prices are normally pretty good so you're looking at what's 33 yeah they're pretty deep usually

[01:20:48] yeah because they they've got they buy so much in bulk so you'll be looking at like 3700 dollars for that kit so um 1600 bucks off is pretty decent yep yeah you do you do need to see

[01:21:05] that it's in you know these shape obviously but I you know I have this treated my setup and it's going strong so I have a lot of confidence in those from that system

[01:21:24] yeah I guess you've hit a few corals. Okay reefs. Yeah the only thing that I will say is that the 72 mask is maybe a little bit short. Yeah I'm not sure where we'll ride it and kind of what you're

[01:21:42] doing but the 72 masks it's not super long it's gonna be easier than I was five but it's not super I'm so used to riding with the 90 centimers to mask yeah so 72 would be very short yeah I think that

[01:22:00] regardless of what you get there's going to be an adaptation period even if you get the same like mask that you change a foil like it's they're each foil is so unique that there will be an adaptation period and you'll figure it out regardless of what you get

[01:22:17] but definitely count on there being an adaptation period regardless of what you get having said that if we're staying within the arms from eco system let's say the 83 I think would be a better choice for you yeah 83 centimeter mask or maybe

[01:22:42] right whichever one it is but either 82 or 83 centimeters I think that's their medium-sized mask that's kind of the all around there I think that's what Luke has as well yeah I think 83 85 or something and it's a I like it I've ridden this 72 and

[01:23:01] it just gives me it gives you a little bit more room to play especially when you're getting out into stuff that has a bit bigger chop or you're just falling less at the start

[01:23:12] so it it is a little bit more forgiving hey yeah you definitely have more margin for error I mean as I said earlier I have both I do ride both I prefer the 72 because it's

[01:23:25] I find it more fun it's more turning and more direct but it's definitely you know I found in conditions where it's a little bit tricky or really big waves and I'm trying to you know

[01:23:37] keep things on the control more than make things more interesting than the 83 is definitely what I'll use and it sounds to me like you're more in that part of your progression right now and make things easier more than let's make it more interesting

[01:23:59] here's your bit of food for thought there Brian are you kidding? it gives you a bit of food for thoughts yeah there's a lot too with those isn't there yeah for sure yeah what kind of board do you guys are using though

[01:24:15] um here I guess I can show you one of both right and key both right and key T's I think okay oh yep he's from Maui KT yeah they're there also yeah KT I think is and anything wave related these about as good as it gets

[01:24:37] in terms of there's no T's reviewer okay P yeah yeah of course absolutely so I ride for dirty mermaid water sports on Vancouver Island so we ship across Canada oh yeah ship my buddy aboard an Ottawa he got 105 later

[01:24:56] and I know I think that we did a little bit better than this price form but I am why I'm selling this I'm riding this one the 72 later this year I switched from an 80 last year and I just love that board it's it's unbelievable

[01:25:13] it's so light it's um the deck is quite nice I was very very impressed with with the board and the construction of it so no complaints there from my end okay have we ever tried on

[01:25:28] home board I did I tried the 60 later Armstrong I preferred the KT I think the KT was a little bit wider and a little bit shorter okay some guys are like in the narrower and a little bit longer

[01:25:40] for me I don't mind having the little wider whatever it was still a beautiful board don't get me wrong like but I think I was just biased to my own setup because I was just used to it

[01:25:53] but they are a little bit more expensive I think the Armstrong but they're both beautiful what border you're riding now Brian I used to ride a nice board 99 later and then I suited to incredible a cone 70 later and I'm thinking of a downgrade to maybe 45 later

[01:26:17] and I'm looking into Armstrong's third port wings report okay 45 later is a really good volume for somebody your size as a first small board I would not down side for that board until you're at the point where you're making basically every transition on the foil if you're

[01:26:40] not at that point yet then I wouldn't recommend to down size the board stay with something that's bigger and more flotty because you're you're just gonna spend so much time getting back

[01:26:52] on the board and taking off and so much more energy than you would on a bigger board that is just not worth it if you're at the point where you're making basically all your questions on

[01:27:01] foil confident at that point getting to something around 45 liters for your weight would be fantastic it'll not really take that much more wind to get going then a bit of a bigger board

[01:27:18] that you're used to riding and it's gonna be a massive difference in field up in the air right I'm right now I'm at doing the transition and the ride on post-side the hillside but I tried my friends for the right engine 45 liter I wasn't for only one time

[01:27:40] I wasn't able to get up on the foil and going but the next session if I try again I am pretty sure I will go on the foil yeah I think there's definitely a learning curve with these smaller boards

[01:27:57] and when the first time you try it you want a lot of wind you want like you know you're about 18 to 20 knots well powered on like a four four five lots of power

[01:28:11] and once you get up and you start riding you'll get kind of your figure things out you'll figure out where the balance point is you'll figure out you know how to these start

[01:28:21] and all that kind of stuff but you really want to be powered up the first you know five sessions I'd say at least and at that point you'll figure out the board and after that I you know

[01:28:35] really firmly believe that you're gonna ride basically only that board the second that there's more than you know 1314 knots because you end up flying basically at the same time as a board that's

[01:28:50] that's bigger but it's so much easier once you're up in the air it's so much easier to maneuver the board I find that I fall way less on my small board than I do on the big board and it's

[01:29:03] so much easier to pump but it does take more energy to pop up on the foil for sure especially if you're not used to kind of the balance of the board and all that kind of stuff and it is

[01:29:16] smaller so it's a little bit trickier to get up on so you do need to get used to that so I'm thinking just to keep my seven-year-old and buying a small board for

[01:29:31] with a strong end yeah I think that that'll probably be your kind of first step so between 45 that's a really good jump you know that's a worthwhile thing to do I think that if you told

[01:29:48] me that you wanted to buy a 60 or 55 and I tell you not back great of a of a call but 45 the 70 that's that's fantastic and those are complementary boards so in the future once you get

[01:30:03] more efficient I do think that you're gonna be riding that 45 basically all the time and at the 70 it will still be a good option for super light winds or really you know flukey

[01:30:15] and you want to get out on an offshore wind or something like that so yeah I think that's that's that makes a really good clever and don't sell that it just yet because you'll still be using

[01:30:29] so I'll have a dilemma right now I'm just shopping around the walking board I need and I can't really try there's so many options out there there's a fiancicer there's an Armstrong

[01:30:42] circle and there's a north seek and there's a slingshaw there's a right angle there's so many options I don't know what to choose if there there is a ton of options I think that

[01:30:55] something that could help you narrow down your search is to target in on a volume that is gonna work for you which I think you've already done around that you know 45 liters I think is a

[01:31:07] good volume from there you need to look at the length of the board because that's gonna make a huge difference and how easy it is and how hard it is to ride because you can have 45

[01:31:19] liter boards that are four feet long and you can have 45 liter boards that are five feet long and there's a massive difference how easy they are to ride I wouldn't go any shorter than like

[01:31:30] 47 you know maybe 46 but don't go shorter than that any shorter than that it really becomes a lot harder to need start so around that you know I'd say 446 47 up to about 410 that's probably the

[01:31:48] length that you're looking for and try to get an uh a board that's not a surf foil board or at least a wide surf foil board so if you're looking at the KT lineup for example just because I know it

[01:32:02] well you basically have the drifted sling it because the chrome foil board and it's a little bit narrower and a little bit longer for a little bit less volume they have the driftor full which is a

[01:32:16] bit of a wider board and a tiny bit shorter which is what I have as my smaller board and then they'll have the wing driftor which are the bigger boards which are more similar to

[01:32:28] that dashboard that you have or the 70 liter probably that you have now so I think that you know medium outline like the driftor full which I think was actually consolidated into the wing driftor this year if I'm not mistaken I look

[01:32:51] yeah so KT here I'll put it in our chat here for you yeah I think the 410 driftor full or it's just wind driftor and then driftor wake yeah okay so the 410 wing driftor is what was the driftor full last year or 4

[01:33:14] if I'm not mistaken and I think that could be a really good option for you so here there's also the 48 which is 38 liters little bit smaller but it should still be

[01:33:28] doable for you as well I think Jesse said he had a 70-inch stock the 42-50s of the driftors I think he said he had a few of these in this range here

[01:33:41] I gotta say I've tried a number of boards and that that driftor full shape is awesome like really really good it's just so forgiving and it's so efficient through the water and you know nice concave decks so you know exactly where your feet are all the time

[01:34:02] you have foot-strap options if you want them it really is exceptionally good board so I would definitely recommend that board about the jiu-su or tru-su stream oh the jitsu I wrote this year I found that it railed very very well side to side

[01:34:26] it popped up I didn't find much of a difference getting off the wind I didn't find a huge difference but the rail I think I'm going to trade mine in next year I'm going to trade my driftor for um urgency just because I love how it railed

[01:34:44] it was a little bit more responsive and that's pretty much the only reason I think I would transfer over everything was fairly comparable if you're carrying the board to the beach the driftor's easier carry because the weights just debuted from evenly from

[01:34:58] nose to tail where this other one was more nose heavy so the nose of your board would go down a little bit um some guys were complaining about the fact that you couldn't sit back on your board

[01:35:10] but I'm light and I was on a 72 or a 70 so for me I had no problems water starting and there was no big deal whatsoever um so it felt big though it felt like a big board because it

[01:35:24] was heavier on the front so maybe that's what I was feeling it wasn't as light as the driftor but it is just because there was more nose there and I think that's what I picked up as it felt

[01:35:35] like a bigger board but it wasn't yeah I think it's also the construction on that board making and heavier it's a much more so than than the the driftor pros so it's going to last longer for

[01:35:47] sure but it is a little bit heavier. I was going to see here if you had anything on there but I don't know the driftor slim that you were asking about Brian and is really a

[01:35:58] surf foil specific shape and you'll see that they're longer and narrower and lower volume so yeah I don't think that's a good compromise for winging specifically because you just don't need that extra length per volume as much as the driister slim is. If you were trying to prone

[01:36:21] so you know paddle into a wave with your hands, prone foil yeah sure that extra length is definitely going to help you but for winging I think the the driftor fall or which has become

[01:36:34] the smaller sizes of the wind driftor is really really a good compromise and that jinsuit of force 740 at leaders probably a good option as well. Yeah that could be a good option for

[01:36:46] if you want to go smaller and lighter and then play out that tail which would be I think would be fine yeah yeah the 72 is a 410 and it felt but I think it must have just been the weight

[01:37:01] but the railing it's so it's the width as well right like the if it's 410 and 72 leaders it must be quite wide yeah the width can actually really feel as well but seriously the

[01:37:16] that wing just shapes like I'm gonna keep coming back to it but it really was kind of an eye opening moment for me when I tried it for the first time it's just so easy and so forgive

[01:37:31] it's awesome how do you carry the board there's no groove on top of the board or bottom of the board yeah there's a groove there's a groove on the there isn't their narrow enough that

[01:37:45] you can just kind of hold it under your arm or you carry it by holding the front wing as the foil oh the smaller ones are like that you just carry like a surfboard okay but because of the foil

[01:38:00] it's kind of heavy right not if you have a wrong strong foot oh okay now you're commenting me to get done there you go that's the main difference when you go to a small board

[01:38:13] like I think with the drifter version one the blue one it was 11 pounds or something and then then the foil like the whole kit must have been like 14 15 pounds or something it was

[01:38:24] unbelievable like how light it was and even now because I'm writing this 72 and this one is still crazy light so when you're carrying your kit over a long distance and this is something

[01:38:35] to consider like if you're walking far enough with your kit then it is very nice to have that compound like everything light and then you're more or less likely to damage a wing because it's just everything is easier than maneuver yeah that's the same time

[01:38:52] however you want to use your brake as well sure walk if you're trying to get a gnarly short brake then everything being lighter on the second picture the lady was he's a

[01:39:03] carrying the wing and the board this one yep so yeah that's the 72 that has an handle or whatever all the smaller surf one doesn't so that's the main difference yeah okay

[01:39:22] basically just to give you a bit of background on this Brian there was the wing drifter line up which is the bigger sizes and the new wing drifter range and then there was the drifter full

[01:39:37] lineup which is the smaller sizes and the new wing drifter range and they kind of made hybrid sizes which is the 72 and another one which is kind of a mix of the two shapes

[01:39:50] and that came out this year but the smaller sizes and the bigger sizes or boards that already it's just before yeah so yeah stop right there look so if you look at the sizing the 34 38 42 and 50 those were the drifter full boards the 80 90 105 150 and 130

[01:40:19] were the old wing drifter boards and then they added the 160 as this year and the 56 52 and 72 we're all added so you can really see actually I'm wondering if the 56 was

[01:40:38] a drifter full as well you might have been because you can see that the the 62 and the 72 are considerably shorter and wider for their volume then the smaller boards after that I don't know if you notice that

[01:40:54] but it's right those are those crossover sizes so I think that once you drop down into those a little bit more narrow relatively more drawn out shapes and either the 410 or the 48

[01:41:09] that is probably the two sizes that can so near the most that's probably kind of the sweet spot for the smaller boards I think if you go with the 62 or the 72 or even the 56 really there's

[01:41:26] so wide that it ends up being you know not that big of difference so you press the more to the lower table shorter length but the wider right so much more stable not necessarily so if you if you notice you notice how the 62 is the smallest size

[01:41:49] that they made and that compact shape and then after that they go longer narrower and reason for that is that once you get under that 410 or much under that 410 you lose a considerable

[01:42:02] amount of stability when your knee starting so that's why they tried to keep the boards a little bit longer and they went narrower instead once you get into the smaller sizes and then until you get to the 34 which is just tiny that's like a full finger board for

[01:42:23] basically everybody at that point they're like a guy well if they're writing this board then they're pretty advanced it's fine but everything else is staying relatively long so that you have more stability on your knees

[01:42:37] you can start with the knee on the knee right which one well with a 34 you cannot start on your knee yeah you can you can I I haven't written it personally but

[01:42:52] it's I'm sure it's possible to do it it's just a lot harder as I said once you get under that 4647 it really does become a lot harder I've written a four foot board once and it's possible to knee start but man is it ever pain yes

[01:43:18] where's the difference between the wrong and squash for the tail the round and the squash yeah um honestly in foil boards I think that there's other aspects of the shape that are more important than the round or the squash to be completely honest with you and a surfboard

[01:43:46] you know it has a different effect but basically if you if you can keep the tail a little bit narrow just like the like in a surfboard it makes the board more reactive and easier to turn

[01:44:03] so and you can you can fly lower without hitting the water and you can carve harder without hitting the water so that's kind of the benefits of having a narrower tail a wider tail obviously has

[01:44:16] more surface area in the back more volume in the back so that helps you get up on the foil maybe a little bit more but the nice thing about those and this is why I like these part of

[01:44:29] why I like those drifter full shapes or those smaller wing new windrifter shapes is that they're have just a really good um relationship between length and width and it makes it and bottom shape

[01:44:44] plays in sort as well making it a really efficient board through the water or really efficient shape that just wants to climb up on top of the water and accelerate and take off as opposed to

[01:44:55] those more compact fat wide shapes that are less hydrogynamic and want to you know at a less less wanting to accelerate they're just you know they'll plane faster but they're not quite as

[01:45:10] a different kind of water stopping since do you guys use the footstress? I don't I just like the surfing aspect I tried footstrap once it was the it was the uh the 60 liter board from Armstrong

[01:45:31] and I felt awkward in them just because I had never used them but I know a lot of my friends love it but uh I just like the strapless aspect where I can move my feet around and if I fall I don't

[01:45:42] have to worry about it and that kind of thing yeah I think that if you're on a small board um with a relatively light board like foil then I'm not that worried about getting stuck in the

[01:45:54] footstrap I was initially um but I had a while where I was I just had a lot of flat water whether decent amount of wind and there wasn't really anything to surf so I was like a day

[01:46:08] well I'll put footstrap so I'm gonna learn how to jump why not and it's fun um I don't I don't think if jumping is what you want to do I think there's other sports that are better

[01:46:21] at it but it is fun to jump wings for sure and I think freestyle is a lot more accessible with winging than this would basically on the other wing sport uh wind sport so it's definitely worthwhile

[01:46:33] to try um but having said that I like Luke I'm definitely more drawn to the surf aspect of it so I generally don't use footstrap. I've been writing my favorite leader with a footstrap on only front and really saved the save me a lot of our waybals.

[01:46:55] Yeah there's some people doing that especially that's a decent compromise is having just the front one not where when you touch down and the board decelerates or less likely to fly off the front.

[01:47:09] Oh we lost some butt, Brian keep in mind with that front foot in the strap if if you get any kind of white there when you're starting to get in some some surf and your your front wing comes out

[01:47:22] of the water and you have a very quick be accelerated mean that it stops dead and you fly you might now be able to get that foot out and you could torque the crap out of your knee ankle or hip.

[01:47:34] I know I had a so much to keep my ankle. Yeah and I like ankle is one thing twist your knee twist your hip much different rehab for that so let's see only thing that I would say be careful

[01:47:51] for because my brother was learning how to cut foil and he just used the front strap and I think he twisted his knee to keep the quick and he's like screw this and he used a hook

[01:48:00] and then he went to Strapless because he had a couple falls where there were rotational falls and he couldn't get his foot out of the strap so that's just one thing to keep in mind but

[01:48:11] there's a lot of people that try it but that's either two or none for me personally but that's me. Okay yeah I think there's some error in what you're saying Luke for sure I think the

[01:48:22] worst thing I can imagine is falling and having only one foot strap. One foot stuck in the straps a much rather have two feet stuck in the straps than one but yeah I think there's there's

[01:48:37] definitely people using that front strap so that you can still move your back foot around and and have a decent feel while having a little bit more security from that front strap.

[01:48:48] I do think if you get on a board that bounces off the water a little bit better and it releases you know kind of doesn't stop as much when you hit the water it becomes less necessary.

[01:49:01] Especially if you have a decent amount of concave in the deck your feet are so solid on the board and so planted on there that it's less necessary but one thing actually I never did

[01:49:15] near because they did change the underneath on the drifters and they added a little they added a little rail to it and sometimes my feet would go over and touch the rail. Now you're

[01:49:27] not going to see it here I'm assuming but you might be able to see it on Facebook because I think I took a front shot of my board and I can show that really quick.

[01:49:40] I find I like that little rail lit which is pretty cool. This is on your 72. Yes they built in this little rail on it this year. Yeah I think they probably sort of the smaller sizes had a pretty heavy concave in their deck and

[01:50:04] I'm wondering if they just added more concave in the deck compared to compared to the original and dresser. This is an absolute fun. It's pretty flat and then right here on the edge as soon as you

[01:50:18] see the deck pad end it just comes up it's like it just comes up for a nice little rail so it's more recessed than what it is concave it is flat and I do like the flat deck.

[01:50:31] I wasn't I've wrote the fanatics and they had a bit of a hard time going to deck and I didn't like it as much I like to be able to initiate my terms on my own accord personally so I didn't

[01:50:41] like the fact that the board was forming but but other people like that so like this is a fun part of it there's it's so you have so many very abilities that you can just choose whatever the

[01:50:52] deck you like right so yeah I think that what it comes down to in the end is Lucas said there's a lot of options and at level that you're at you could try things and see what you like

[01:51:06] and see what you don't like that's really going to be the best way for you to choose. Are you Brian? Where about where best you let? Or part of it? Where do you let? I live in Montreal, Tivet.

[01:51:23] Okay I'm much better okay because like I do I will have the 72 liter available in Ottawa probably it's still in B6 and I have to fly back and enjoy it with a probably a new vehicle but

[01:51:37] I have I have the 72 liter which you could always try for fun and the 1550 V1 Armstrong just to get a feel of it I know it's a bit bigger but you could still just get a little feel of

[01:51:47] that new setup before you did buy something okay so it's not too too far you could always do that or if there's ever a nice day at Champlain or something that could always be an option to go check

[01:52:01] that. Plus for date yeah exactly yeah plus for a decent little spot but yeah so or if you're interested I could always get you a price on a smaller one from Jesse because he

[01:52:17] has some of these that the 40 liter or the 50 liter's okay I could always get a price one of those if he want just to see what it would be like to get shipped

[01:52:28] shipped in Montreal. Well I love his first yours maybe. Yeah you know yeah that's a really active design with like a concave so I don't really have to use the first one I can place my foot

[01:52:44] once I thought to the as I know this is the end right that's what I liked about it it was kind of cool because as soon as you got to the edge if I would normally ride my front foot kind of off to

[01:52:57] the side a little bit and then my back what would be more in the center where all the screw holes are it didn't really ever need to move my foot too much over to the side to initiate my turns

[01:53:07] because it didn't really need to but yeah it is nice sometimes when I'm moving around if I'm fumbling your feet do hit that rail which is super nice. And there was when you thought

[01:53:19] when you need you can just grab the as right yep yeah yeah when I was in the ocean when it's in the ocean yesterday before there there's some bigger swell so then yeah like I would

[01:53:32] hold the center handle of my wing and kind of hold that and hold the rail and kind of get myself before I was getting you going so that was it does help a little bit I find using your

[01:53:43] wing as a third leg is pretty useful I don't even sometimes I'll put a hand like up near the screw holes in the front here on the on the deck hold the wing but the wing definitely helps

[01:53:55] if you can kind of stabilize yourself with that. You should have some sort of Montreal you should try look up kite force I don't know if there's still selling KT and cultural boards or not

[01:54:09] but they were a year or two ago and they might have a demo of the fun. The owner are two he doesn't say KT. Other stop selling KT okay they they were before that's why I was wondering otherwise there's also

[01:54:28] too red where I used to work actually and I don't know what he has in stock in terms of demos but we yeah that you should see what would do know what if he's got a demo that you might be able to

[01:54:44] try. When you go to the end bank you can come in and see what try it yeah that could work too absolutely yeah I'll be going to send thanks as far so definitely I could all be bringing all my stuff

[01:54:56] so you could definitely we could always try it on on West Lake or you could try that at Sandbank there too so okay Brian are you I don't think you are but there's a Facebook chat called

[01:55:14] wing mania and it's basically a bunch of people from Quebec and Toronto and Ottawa that are all that a lot of them go to Sandbank so stuff like that it might be worthwhile for you to hop on there

[01:55:27] there's a lot of decent writers and good writers there and you might be able to try somebody's gear or get some more advice as well. Oh yeah yeah we can are you Facebook friends with Luke or

[01:55:44] with me not with me I don't think but we look maybe. Luke the hosting is here let me send you what's your last name Brian or here I'll show you on Facebook you I'll show you what my profile

[01:56:03] looks like so if you look if you look up Luke more and then you see that picture yeah that's me and you can just add me as a friend and then we can connect you okay sure I got some interesting

[01:56:17] people following me here I'm not sure who that person is but I don't think she's my friend some weird stuff but anyways um he's a random people anyways but it is getting light here in the east coast I flew back yesterday

[01:56:34] so I should I should get up get going there because I got to get up early for work but thanks a lot Tom and thanks a lot Brian for joining us and great chat and absolutely I'd be the Facebook

[01:56:46] all send you some details and then we can stay in touch I'll also add you to that wing foil chat as well with all our other buddies so you can ask some questions in there because a lot of

[01:56:56] guys they they love to talk here as well so that's somewhere where you could do and then we could get you set up on my 72 the Armstrong and try that out and see how you like it

[01:57:07] all right sounds good thank for the information absolutely absolutely thanks for joining us what are you doing smart time more sounding probably go that works okay thanks a lot enjoy your night good night guys nice job you both have a good day