Episode # 34 - Steve Maier

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing-foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Well, quite the honor to sit down and chat with you. Nice to see you again. We'll start off with that. You can see your teamwork.

[00:00:25] Nice. How did a WSI turn out for you guys? It is pretty welcome. Being up in the parking lot would be a lot better than it's not really good.

[00:00:35] We got quite a few masks on the water, a lot of people got them on the water, a lot to like them. So it's in buzz. And since then we've been rather slammed. Yeah. Okay. Oh yeah, it's been pumping about 50 masks a week out. Oh well.

[00:00:52] So yeah, pretty happy about that. Yeah, that's pretty cool. That should be in late season. Nice. So how's Maui treating you? Maui is always good. We start doing some winter swells, which is nice. Let's start on season bumps.

[00:01:06] And then true Maui fall, we get some bumps and wind goes away. So they've made a person in the sheen days. Oh yeah, I don't do it. They're going to milk it and not it up on the rocks. Fair enough. So where are you sailing?

[00:01:18] Most of the time in the winter, I'm much of got a call. Um, just a little bit of a buffer there. And the set of ways get to kind of outside. So you have a chance to know too. Um, just when I just got back here,

[00:01:33] most of it can all hot upers. So as part of our physical ways are doing downwinders. Windsurfing or getting on that winged thing? I'm pretty much a striking wing in these days. I had to get the knee replaced a couple years ago.

[00:01:46] So my wings are in days or a number of days. Oh really? I can still win surf, but I'm not allowed to jump. Okay. And I don't know why I would win surf if I could jump. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah, fair enough. Still want to move along.

[00:02:01] No, I guess not. But how's winging then there? I've heard some spectacular things about winging in Maui. Winging on Maui is really good. There's some really great ways, spots that are two treacherous. I mean, they stole her sketchy. But just there's a, it's a really good winging environment.

[00:02:21] I mean, can I hollow it down through? Pier one is really good winging conditions. If you want to be brave, you can go chase them really big. So I could keep in that type of thing. But I'm also learning why the guys at chase out stuff.

[00:02:34] Do not have leashes on their wings and add a big old down yesterday from that. So oh yeah. Oh yeah. When the wickets trapping, you know, and I plus white water just starts dragging you. Oh, it's taking you drag into what I'm finally going to lose.

[00:02:51] It's not like it surfboards that will pop out eventually. That was a long, old down fair enough. They got my attention. Oh yeah. These bigger days I may start going with that. Oh yeah. I guess everybody boardleashes well or they cut not to. Not boardleash I'm okay with.

[00:03:12] The board doesn't pull that. It's not much different than surfboarding. Okay, but the wing leash kind of like it's just kind of gets tumbled and tumbled and hold the white water just you're getting dragged about a foot already.

[00:03:22] So the water and just nothing going to do about it. Oh yeah. Yeah, I guess Reese from Ocean rodeo is developing this new release system. And I hadn't. Yeah, I think they're just starting to use that on wings and they're going to make it so

[00:03:35] a lot of brands can carry that as a mix. That. Yeah, that'll. Yeah, that does make a lot sense. Well, I was getting dragged as like okay how am I going to get the leash off by risk is knowing what to do it.

[00:03:47] Oh, because you're other I'm just flailing back right. Well, you know, you know, you know, strapped on your wrist and even got the bulk of it. It's like a come over your hand. You say. And like this is a good situation. They should.

[00:03:58] How long are you down for? You know, I must have been through four days without a problem. I was probably about 20 20 second 30 second old balance is a long one. Okay. And it's long enough that I ligarget. I need to relax more. Something like consuming oxygen as much.

[00:04:13] Yeah, let's think about it. Just kept hoping that we would pop out of the white water. Well, it's good for us to know because it's not really something that for those of us who aren't in white water as often and get a little ante and excited about it.

[00:04:27] I think all these are new. New problems are new things that we got to keep in mind. You know, it was about a year or so ago. I'll probably punch like that. One guy's routed out of the other. They're the other. And big conditions.

[00:04:43] Yeah, I saw some video from there and then you know, one guy got a bunch of just doing up in the air. It was like, why is he around? And now I'm kind of understanding why is not around. Lish. How are we? Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah.

[00:04:58] Think once he gets much over, you know, head and head and a half. And especially, really have a lot of white water. I think it would need to be an issue. I think. Okay. Yeah, good to know. Good to know. And become a better swimmer.

[00:05:08] Yeah, that's on the to do list. Yeah. Definitely. Well, hey, can we take a step back into history and talk a little bit about how all of this got started? Of course. This started innovative composite engineering. I see back in 1990. I was born in Arizona, Midwest.

[00:05:38] I was living back in Indiana. I wasn't in a wind surfer. I hate to say this by the since 1978. Yeah. Good to know. I think I was better than I should be by that still suck.

[00:05:49] But I learned very early on in Lake Superior out of wind surfer and kind of kept chasing all the problems I've seen. Got up to the garage couple of times in the mid 80s and just cut over time, you know, through some work changes.

[00:06:06] Listen, that I found it just as hard power at the Amazon Mail Company. And so I kind of decided where I want to be, which was the garage may have lots of sense of the time.

[00:06:16] I mean, when I moved to Hud River half a downtown was boarded up and was able to rent 5,000 feet in the work of 5,000 square k from $50 a month. Well, it was a great place to store the company. Oh yeah. And so I basically moved there, started the company.

[00:06:34] The intent of the company was to build composite parts and use the technology I knew for my previous history working in an industry to bring higher-ranking pods this down market. And when surfing the knowledge side came about mostly because I was out of maths.

[00:06:52] I broke my last maths and I knew to math, I'm like, okay, I was supposed to be a composite guy, she didn't speak at all math. And so I got a tool and make a whole math and it's like, keep saying it. It's like being a bum.

[00:07:04] And then guys on beach right before like what is that? And I talked about it like, hopefully make me one. Sure. So I go and make math at night and it's a lot of beach for everybody during the day.

[00:07:13] And that's kind of how no one really started to get a name and start having. Oh wow. So that's pretty good. But the real start of the company was mostly building antennas for self-armed broadcast. That was the first real work that we got. And that was just in 1991.

[00:07:36] Just when self-armed started become something real. And we built hundreds and hundreds of thousands of ten for long to a shiver, two for self-armed broadcast for many years. Okay. I got really good at making tubes and making math.

[00:07:54] And then slowly over time we branch out into aerospace and military and all sorts of other fun things. Interesting things. Yeah, because I was just checking out your website and you got a bunch of different categories. And cool to categorize under recreational too.

[00:08:08] Like it's not just not just when surfing or now weighing. It was also biking and some other things. Just do it. Yeah, we've done a lot of stuff in the bike industry over the years. I'm way back in the day. We worked with specializing there first carbon bikes.

[00:08:23] We worked with trackway back then in which there's carbon bikes. I've set up several carbon fiber bike manufacturer operations. Your recyclables will probably set up that kind of day and double their stuff. Independent FAB IF, we built their carbon stuff.

[00:08:38] Apparently I'm on most recent thing in biking was we were doing all the organ out frames for a few years until we finally transitioned all that stuff to them. We got them to make their own frames so I'll let you just kind of nice.

[00:08:51] We've never made a all they were ever made a set in bike industry. Okay. But we've had an off on it. Oh yeah, I guess it would be. So how did you kind of gather that knowledge initially was that. Um, engineering.

[00:09:04] I've got a BSNIC Ag large in airing. My master's work was a composite. One of my first jobs was doing bar armaments for the Bradley and M1s. So as early as I can pause and stuff, I'd still have to go back and need. Got it. Med 80s.

[00:09:21] Okay. And then also work with their 16 programs and father stuff and some very time. Oh wow. How is that back in the day? Okay, from just being a win surfing but that just came from being a win soon. But I'm like, you know, straight and glute.

[00:09:34] And then the no limit skinny 340 was born. The skinny. Um, you want to strain the skin? I would love history and the skinny before we get into wing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The waning podcast. That's a strength win surfing. Yeah. I'm going to be win surfing around. Yeah.

[00:09:55] Um, the skinny came about thinking 92. This episode is brought to you by Saladida Kiteschool in Laventana, Mexico. If you caught some of our stories yesterday on Instagram, you'll have seen that. I just got in a couple epic days of Dan Winding.

[00:10:12] We got a 10 kilometer Dan Winder done with my buddy Mickey from Salt Spring Island. Today I got an epic one with my friend Britt. He went from Latuna all the way to the beach and back. Heck of a fun time.

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[00:10:53] So if you want to grab a beer after grabs on my screen, grab anything. It is a nice little hub there. So you're not just stuck in the middle of nowhere. So they have you covered if you want to learn a kite foil or looking into Dan Winding.

[00:11:06] They got top quality gear as well. So don't hesitate book your lesson today by visiting SaladidaLaventana.com or send them a message on Instagram at SaladidaKiteschool. At SaladidaKiteschool. There's an individual down in Latuna, a George Greenhouse.

[00:11:26] Interesting character that then built it all by his own gear for years. Had really kind of wild like whole shape and boards you made. They were like six feet long. And he like ground his own fins out of stainless steel. And George was really neat guy.

[00:11:43] And he decided to make his own mask because he wanted to kind of weird banker thing. And to make masks, he just took a piece of plastic plumbing pipe. And started laying up on it and dried it down to get the benzoywantage.

[00:11:59] Yeah, so I built a bunch of masks that way. And then there's a wildfire brush fart down there that kind of wiped out all of his winter vinkier. And burnt all his masks up. And so he got a whole robust and got a whole man today.

[00:12:16] I need some more masks and they kind of spanked me with him and doing it. I might go get it. Interesting. As a guy, but you know, he picked me some masks. I just don't want to deal with all the sediment stuff again.

[00:12:28] And so I looked at what he'd done with having smaller donter thing that he'd done in old straight and weird. And I kind of stepped back and looked more at the basics from an engineering standpoint. And if you go back to nearly 70's on the winter course design,

[00:12:45] the developer level thing, he developed the banker if you wanted this difference he wanted. And he'd get that run engineer who then designed a mask tapering mask out of fiber out space and the mechanic properties of fiber.

[00:13:01] And so that's what that's how the traditional mask came to be. It was designed from the start to be a fiber out smashed. Over history as one surface, we started at a carbon fiber to mask and the carbon mask.

[00:13:16] And then the mid 80's, a lot of carbon masks are out there coming out. And all these guys doing carbon masks are just copying the exact size and diameters as the matches both in fiber hours.

[00:13:28] And since carbon fibers much stiffer than fiber hours that you'll fit in thinner walls. To make them done right. Oh yeah. And that also led to more mass breaking step-by-step. You know, back in the early 80's, the take of all masks was the Emperor Greyweight.

[00:13:48] So I'm not sure if that could interview you in order to have a great way this. But it was a fiberglass mask a week, 10 pounds and it was indestructible. But it was a beast and it was all designed to all fiber us.

[00:14:00] And so I looked at all that data and we're done the same thing making all of the match, so we used the same diameters. And we knew from making different masks, you know, three pound race mask or a five-ton way mask. We knew it was strong, what wasn't.

[00:14:16] What wallfingers' work didn't. And so I kind of just took the, what back the drive board to the properties carbon fiber, the stiffness and strength of carbon fiber. Kind of the wallfingers is going to work well for strong mass. And did the engine have been scratched.

[00:14:34] And that's what actually ended up being the diameters that had been skinning. Wow, there was a much smaller diameter mask than the material stiffer. So I had to go to the Swarred Emory at the Bend Wright. I made a couple of compromises in there.

[00:14:51] I just wanted to make the work with existing windsurfing gear, right? So we had to make it with work with base of the base of the bones. And so I had actually increased the diameter of the base a little bit.

[00:15:02] So it fit inside of a standard windsurfing base, right? And then the boom area actually came up with the shim material that we could buy. So I made the diameters of the, the boom area the mask to work with that shim so it would work with standard bones.

[00:15:20] And that's kind of how the diameters all came about. And there was different than when George wanted but it was close enough that he said, I got to work for him.

[00:15:29] And so we made a tool, made the first mask, first full mask, bent them, they done good or they look good. And we had a machine with milk back in the day that we used to break masks, we're seeing how strong there'd be.

[00:15:44] And then basically we were put a mask, you know, we found them in the machine and just start pulling out. There'd be this big curve, right? They're finding them bent enough they're blowing up. The machine we had had about a five foot stroke.

[00:15:57] And most masks would, like a race mask would be about two feet of stroke or blow up. Most of the good way of passing made were about three to half feet of stroke and blow up.

[00:16:05] And that point I mean you're talking about three, four feet of bend in the mouth. And so we threw the first full mask, the first couple of shims on there. Ran that whole thing completely compressed it. Mass just sat there. This huge, huge sat there like whole crap.

[00:16:22] So release that and modify them, put some pre-bent in the mask. You can further further, further the point with the ends were only like two feet in touch or you've got to go up. Wow, wow, this is a way story that we expected.

[00:16:35] Oh, and so that's kind of, so we're pretty happy about that, get strength. The next big one was we didn't know what we're going to need to get sail, make your homework with us.

[00:16:44] Because of course the skim masks made it different sail, at least we thought it did. I actually took the first mask, the first full mask we made, went out on a doctor's whole session and used them to just just sail there.

[00:16:58] Which is the time where some water else I think. And I was shocked that the sail felt the same. It didn't feel like it different.

[00:17:06] Other than I'm also out there and you know, a big day, you know, at the edge on the three-com masks instead of five-metre mask. Oh yeah.

[00:17:15] And I was like, wow, it's actually a chill. So it seems to work and a couple of guys I know that when we're being named this,

[00:17:21] I showed up and they asked what that was. I gave them what those masks and told me to go out and break it. And they went out there and just poked it and poked it and poked it.

[00:17:30] Just underrooking forwards over and over and cannot do anything to us. Including actually doing an endo into the rocks at the point. Yeah, that was, as I said, this person that we were being named. Sorry, not with the smartest blue ever.

[00:17:45] But they couldn't break it and those are going to get this thing to work.

[00:17:49] And one order to hudriver and what to see people say, I'll make it as I knew and took a mask with me then to them and show to them that I got this and never worked.

[00:17:58] I said, well, can you if we've really got up and look at it? And got them to rig it up and they're like, you know, let's say we're excited to see great. So the depot, like I think this thing is working with standard sales.

[00:18:10] And that's kind of how the whole thing came up. George himself, he wants him to record some weird girls when they did those weird girlships. They're down there and not destroy it and he still sales those to the state.

[00:18:21] And we start making this game as hell in no way. And at the time we made pre-preq masks and power, it's made pre-preq masks.

[00:18:31] And I knew that the other mask company, the big dog in the room was going to come back with a media list if they heard about it. So I actually said all the design work to power racks.

[00:18:42] If here you guys, that's a push-out can show with the massive same time. And that's what we did. So I gave them all the design work they actually caught through the mask exactly and we showed up in the next trade show 92 with weird unknown,

[00:18:54] but skinny in there, power x, where shall we? Oh, that was smart. So yeah, so it generates some, this two companies do it, I'm not just seeing something new, guys with a block. Yeah, fair enough.

[00:19:04] And power x was like out east here, power x was carried by a lot of people. Oh, power x made good crops. Don't know the principles for that company well and they were great people. They're really good stuff. Really good stuff. Oh wow.

[00:19:20] So that was a good ripple then into the industry? Oh, we definitely changed industry a lot. Yes. I mean, being the year-wits or if you know that about every mask out there now, they reduced our verbats, and that'll happen without students in it.

[00:19:33] And we definitely changed industry over time. Did you think that starting I see there and would lead to such a big, that's all the fame stuff, man? Yeah, yeah, that'll never happen because if we can control the one surfing holo thing,

[00:19:51] you can look when that went up off line and see what that's all about. Oh wow. That's pretty cool though. And then so just sticking on those masks for a second. Yeah. So all the thickness and how it was built, all that stuff and Ben curves,

[00:20:10] all that just came with how you wanted the sales, how you found the sales would perform. So you would just then customize how you built that to just... In terms of the performance. Just tweak the lab and tweak where the material was, change the bins, all that stuff.

[00:20:28] Back in the day, there was a select stopping policy curve mask that was it. And then a bunch of sales makers started out with what they wanted their own stuff to be. Dave as he was probably the first one who really did that.

[00:20:39] And so then we worked with Dave and made masks for days. We worked with Jason, made masks for quality. I don't think we could make custom benches for those guys, but they wanted.

[00:20:49] And we still do that to this day, we sell them companies up to the sales maker who make custom benches for that. So they won't work in court. You know, we just tweak our design and dial on the Benningo. And it's actually pretty cut and dry now.

[00:21:02] It's pretty easy for us. Oh yeah, I don't do it after all that time. That's pretty cool. It's all just an Excel spreadsheet and just plug and plug and plug. It gives you the answers. Yeah.

[00:21:11] So are you making masks in for a bunch of the major winter for manufacturers? And we're going to get into wing in a second. For a couple. For a couple. This couple we did do these days here. I'm like everything. Everybody starts going offshore to get things cheaper.

[00:21:26] Okay. And so that's what we've the civil brand that we've supported in the past. We've gone offshore on the get in the main cheaper out of Asian. And of course, those masks are as durable as what we do. And that's okay.

[00:21:39] Because we've discussed earlier that's one of the things in the states. We made it our masks are too durable. They they last for way too long. And you have people coming up to the beach ask if they should replace a clear or mask.

[00:21:52] Like, yeah, they'd replace them asked. Like, why is it going to break? It's like, no, I want to buy a six pack next month. Go on, buy another mask. Come on, make some distance here. Prices have gone up. Yeah, exactly. Six pack from eight bucks these days.

[00:22:06] Yeah, exactly. And you know, and then especially if you're well, I guess you're base out of the states for us. Canadian, it's even more with the exchange rate and whatnot. But yeah, better. That's, that's hurt.

[00:22:19] Okay, so you when did, um, when did you start venturing into making masks for, uh, for winging? Winging? Um, they were probably a four to five years now. Yeah, I can't even remember it's been a while. Um, I, I lived in the garage for from 1989 onward.

[00:22:41] Um, you've been to the garage. Or just, whether most speak back to a past year fight in the world and the summers. The winters are brutal and can be very brutal.

[00:22:52] And so, um, my wife retired about nine, ten years ago and after Queir, she said, I'm not staying here anymore. And when is this sucks? Uh, she was a pilot so she was always offline so she never noticed that about the winners were. Oh, yeah.

[00:23:04] And, um, so we, we've been coming to Maui a lot with being coming to Maui for several weeks a year for, for since 1990. And so it's about the hours he ended up out in the winners. So we made the move here in the winners.

[00:23:20] Um, Ken winners a good friend of mine that then friends with him for 30 plus years. And he was way into the wing thing. Obviously still not way into the wing thing. And so he kept bugging me and I should try winging.

[00:23:33] Like I told him I was still a wince of her. And, uh, finally when there was no way, but when I was just bored to death because of that, I mentioned I don't like them other than that.

[00:23:43] Yeah, I've finally got some gear from Ken to start weight and that's probably about four years ago. Yeah, kind of I figured out the whole wing thing and then I've picked up some gear from a company we made undamed

[00:23:57] and uh, first and those just how bad the match was. Uh, the match was just a new all the foil want to go wherever it wanted to go.

[00:24:08] Um, I'm trying to learn how to tap and drive and go to a tap or drive and think just has a teaching and pops. Like this is stupid. And so that's why my kind of set again was gonna make a mask is I did some research and everything

[00:24:23] out there was pretty banded on. Uh, they added to at that point their industry was a mask no matter only the four armators. Actually, I also heard that some people were saying that the whip was on purpose that it was supposed to help you power up into corners.

[00:24:40] Yep, I heard that one also. Yeah, I like yeah but I don't like the fact it's unpredictable. I'm doing a bottle of chair now I went and hooked up and if she's getting hooked up. Yeah, no exactly. I don't want to get munched. Now yeah.

[00:24:53] And so that's kind of how it started. When she initially we tried to work with like a couple of the OMS. We actually did OMS, but we did masks for them as if your demo purposes and they liked them a lot.

[00:25:06] But never kind of came to the table because we made an EOS or we always made an EOS for like I said any offshore that's just not my game. And they didn't want to pay the money for it.

[00:25:18] They wanted to buy a, you know, they can buy a set for one through the price out of Asian. They want to make sure they have made the margins all the way. That kind of we went on that path for about a year plus.

[00:25:31] Do we finally just attack with it and came off no limits? Okay, into ourselves. And so pretty good to use on this thing so far. The lead to is doing very well. V1 was a good mask, saw the mask. We had some issues early on with some adhesive,

[00:25:49] which was that's the only story I think, and into too much. The major kind of info to rockets kind of freaked out. We decided that we signed up on an ESA that we thought was all safe. We didn't like solved environment.

[00:26:01] And so we had to miss you there and we had, but you know, we took care of it. We made sure that they were at new masks. We made sure they made a lot of possible replace of oil with your care people. Okay. In general.

[00:26:13] Uh, coming from the winds of inside and ordering their reputation. We were making the best gear we can and if some, you know, stuff for eggs. People are always going to break things. That's how you take care of the oil when they break things.

[00:26:25] Yeah, that's true actually because one of the guys that I know that on the store on Vancouver Island there, he'll, he'll just come out and say, oh yeah, they're warranty programs amazing. Or their reputation is this. And then so they'll, and everybody, all the stores do this.

[00:26:41] They'll just gently steer you because they know they've been dealing with every manufacturer in every brand. And they're like, what happens if something happens? And you're like, oh, okay. Sure. I'll go this route. Yeah. So what you're saying matters yet. Yeah, you can pay once.

[00:26:57] You can pay a lot of times. Yeah. That's true. And, you know, but they have a mask as all the masks are done well. They're light. They're stiff. My biggest concern with the one where when we did that design was getting stiffness out. And especially the torsional stuff.

[00:27:15] Because I ate it when the floor was just doing its own thing. That didn't work for me. I wonder, make sure I was in control of where it was going, not adding control of me. I'm old enough now I don't get much by way.

[00:27:28] I don't think any of us do. So yeah, that's true. In my younger years, it didn't bother me. Yeah. That would for it's a lot more. Yeah. But so yeah, so that was a big part of that. And RV1 mask. It was light.

[00:27:45] Toriously, the stiffness thing out there. Benning stiffness was good and brought us not as stiff as they access the moon or something. Which we got feedback from some of the surf guys that they, you know, be nice to have a little bit stiffer.

[00:27:57] But that's where you want to be too. That was a big part of the focus and making sure we addressed the areas we need to address for the design. Okay. So one thing I read obviously, and I'm just learning more about this.

[00:28:10] Even though I'm on the show, I still look at myself as a bit of a novice. But so there was obviously flex and then rotational flex and then ventilating as well. Yeah. The ventilation is the biggest part of my opinion check.

[00:28:24] That is the same role most important thing I've asked me. And our V1 mask, if the surface finish wasn't right on the money, or if it got some coil on a light deep on something you grabbed your mask, that would cost some ventilation issues with it.

[00:28:41] And ventilation is just no fun. And so that was my number one focus for the V2 design was eliminating ventilation as much as possible. So what is that for people I don't know? Um, ventilation is basically, you know,

[00:28:57] if you go through the way, you're hitting chop and different sides, so you're getting little pockets of air inside the mask. There are what you do when you're getting little pockets. And when a mask bill, they actually suck that air right down the mask to the foil.

[00:29:08] And then just drop out from when you like didn't exist. While the foil is under the water. And yeah, oh, so basically it gets sucked on the mask too. And if the mask can reattach flow rapidly, that won't happen.

[00:29:23] If the mask cannot reattach its flow once it separates, then you get sucked down. And it's a problem that, you know, a lot of brands have had. And there's ways around this way to fix it.

[00:29:38] And there's some brands out there who try things like putting fences on, so it can't suck down. And that's kind of funny to me because it's essentially taking heal your mask over all. You know, another lifting body you're dealing with, which is a control.

[00:29:51] And I have other new issues and, you know, that people who try different things and try different tapers to stop it. But it can be designed out under now. I do it dynamically. It just takes a lot of work.

[00:30:03] But yeah, so so if you're falling along, it all is in your whole foil. Just drops out from when you're for no good reason you don't know why. Probably a violation. So that's a mask issue. Yeah, but use it to mask it. It's also something that happened.

[00:30:16] You know, if you're breaching a tip of your foil. And some masks will breach a tip and be able. There's other or some, while you breach your tips and they don't notice. Other, of course, you breach a tip and where you go to hell.

[00:30:29] That's actually a foil violation that's sucking it down the whole. But some don't have any issues that they can breach tips all day long. You know, if I go rockstar and really mostly the gear and 70 dusty or fours on that case.

[00:30:42] Yeah, not my V1, my V1 does not do that. But I think the next foil I buy it will probably perform. Definitely, but when I've said on the V1, the big thing we had is just surface finish.

[00:30:56] And if the surface finish wasn't right, they were valid and that's where we kept telling me just what sand was from corner six and a grit the wrong goes away. That fixed on the one all the time.

[00:31:05] But you don't want to have your customer who's what send them out. Actually, I had George on from Delta Hydrofoil out in New York state there. Yeah. He mentioned the same thing about foil that a lot of the time you should be doing the same thing

[00:31:22] because the finish throws off and just improperly since that happened. Very much so. And the light wet sand here also gives you like a little micro triple air wrecked surface that actually keeps it there. Water attached better, good for all. Okay, good to know.

[00:31:39] You really want your stuff to work really great, you know, wet sand with six hour grit and wet sanded opposite the direct drift flow. So along the lake of things is one of the little micro trips.

[00:31:48] Got a little beach, urban some surface and then it just keep it at the end of each year. And that will do what for somebody. You see my black stare. It will make things work just to touch better. All right, fair enough.

[00:32:03] For somebody like myself, I don't know this. But if you want to be the fastest guy around the course and the ultimate and performance that's how you get there.

[00:32:14] Okay, you know guys like you know like came to wild racing or costly just really tuning the gear and make sure it's absolutely perfect that way. But that's how I'm adding. I'm actually embarrassed how bad my foil is looked from how many times they hit Reese's.

[00:32:30] So, my foil is like horrible. They're just hammered all the time. I've never done any of the bottom. I just write them that way. I don't care. Could you tell us what you're writing? I currently mostly run as a Kubernetes 80. Okay, I just really liked that foil.

[00:32:42] It's a really surfi foil and with some tweaks to the angles and came till I'm writing. It's a really fun foil still fast and gladi that you can give rid of the funky stalk here. Trust me, I think had straight out of the box.

[00:32:57] It's a really fun foil. And you're writing the V2. I think maybe out there hasn't, yeah. Okay, but maybe it has a to come in on any way you're rid of our Apple Black from our Apple F spares. I love that foil. Oh, awesome.

[00:33:10] And it's slightly the whole, there's a big crowd of to come in on any of the V2 and the water around here. Some people have known that my gear too and they're like, oh my gosh. They get it. But yeah, that's one currently writing. Okay.

[00:33:23] But also I've really been playing for the F1 skates. Those are pretty sweet. I like those a lot too. But I'm a way if I'm not, I'm not worried about the opening light and not I asked like I'm I'm struck it about chasing ways again turns up.

[00:33:37] Oh, it's fair. And so many different disciplines here, you know? Yeah, no fair enough. And if we're on the winging train, can we talk about how a winging mast is made? Oh, we just saw some straightened into a mold and it comes out perfect.

[00:33:52] What we are doing, what I see is doing is we're actually ready. We do it with what's called prepreg. So the rest and it's pre-impringated in the fibers. We don't do any wet resin work of a sort. I saw that stuff often. I started the company.

[00:34:11] I've done lots of years of wet resin and it's not the way to make a part. It's just hard to control. So, we start to use prepreg. We have to make it a hollow section. So we have an inner tool and an outer tool.

[00:34:27] We're doing that because if you have something in bending of beam and bending, the center of the beam does nothing for bending. It's just the neutral axis. So I have a matured on center of aiming and bending. This is just waste and mature or wasted, waste and weight.

[00:34:45] In our case, since we're building it in the US, it's waste and money. You know, having people lay that stuff up. And so we actually have an inner tool and an outer tool. We lay the material around the inner tool.

[00:34:55] It goes into an outer tool, all compression mold together. And then that pops out a mold we pull the inner piece of stuff and lift it up for the hollow mass section. With prepreg, we need heat and pressure to cure it. That's a problem with the material.

[00:35:10] And so we cure all the stuff in big, impressive, big high-touch presses. Put about 150 PSI on the land that on the material itself during the cure. And cure them about 280 degrees to our highest. Sure. And then that pops out the raw mass. From there it's sand and finished.

[00:35:30] You know, grapher certified paint supplied. We are using a aluminum baseplate. We're doing that on purpose. I'm not, I'm a really bad prone slorter. I'm trying to become better my goal for this winter is actually becoming a decent.

[00:35:49] Well, to go from really bad to just bad prone slorter against my goal. Good first step. I don't mean decent's not even trying to get there. But in that, it also, you know, done when, when Dean was supports all that,

[00:36:03] the drug it take off is a pretty big deal. And so the bigger baseplate is, the bigger areas that baseplate, that's a lot of dragging the water. You know, people talk about falling in with your up falling and that'll go away. But under getting started, it matters.

[00:36:17] And so we've actually gone to a metallic baseplate on purpose. These we may get better and tighter if you could have composite baseplate. We are playing with some bodyplate design trying to see if we can come up with the desired work. So we can keep streamlining.

[00:36:30] Right now, we went with metal and purpose there for a reason. So that's bottom of the mast. We actually foam solar mass, the hollow cavity. We only do that because the noise, the first, first mast you put in the water.

[00:36:46] We all, we've all experienced your noise in the form and vibration before oil. Is it? And a hollow mass, it was just an amplifier. It was so loud. I remember right around the hatchery and when the first mass,

[00:36:59] they'll just stare at like what the hell is wrong keep. The thing was just really so noisy. And so we foam fell those and then we made massive fill with about any brand.

[00:37:11] So whatever brand it is, you're buying the mast for where we will bond that infinity and that in the mast. And that's how it should stop the door. We don't have a universal compatible mast.

[00:37:21] I wish we could but we connect it off of the solution that meets our door builder requirements. Without making the mast a lot thicker.

[00:37:28] That's a, to make that work we have to go to M8 bolts and to make M8 bolts work you need to build up right out of 18 millimeters stick to the mast. That's just a much dry drill so we're going to do that. We'd rather compromise than another grashi.

[00:37:44] That's not like compromised with me. Okay, fair enough. So going back to the attachment for the board attachment and stuff, making that out of metal instead of carbon. Some brands are obviously everybody's doing every which way, but you're thinking this is the better route right now.

[00:38:03] For us right now it is. I said we're working. We've been doing some work on a carbon base attachment that we're still up after where we have to go thickness and size wise to make it structural. Okay. And metals of pretty straight quarter perch of that.

[00:38:19] Fair enough because you would lose stiffness and then drag. What do you be amplified? Uh, if we go small enough to keep the drag down we're going to use stiffness. If we make it large enough to get the stiffness where we want to be the drag goes up.

[00:38:33] Okay. And like I said again a lot to like, well it doesn't matter it's all the water but. Must as well say that don't prone for don't prone soil or sub-downland. They did their deal of the difference really quick. Hmm. Okay, fan us.

[00:38:48] Me, you know if we look at the whole trend and you're downwind subboards or getting longer and narrower all the time reduce. Perfect for take off. So if you're hanging something to really drag you right then ball the board in the back. That's all you got idea.

[00:39:01] Yeah, no, especially if you're you're looking to shave anywhere you can possibly shave well. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Well that's pretty cool. So then in then you make all the custom master adapters so that you can hook that up to most. Most major brands you're saying. Most major brands.

[00:39:21] I don't know if we do everything because it seems like there's a new brand coming out every week. But basically all major brands we have adapters for. And even and we even do all that working house. We don't even send that out.

[00:39:33] We want to control that so if we screw it up it's our fault. And if we need to make a adjust, we can make it quite lit. Again that'd be a place we could say money is the having.

[00:39:43] Those pieces all made in Asia but again we whatever do all ourselves keeping in house and do it right. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Yeah. And continue to be made in the USA is nice at least then you know and it's a dependable product

[00:39:56] So we're not going to get worried as much because stuff is slowly create like with new composite wings they're rising in prices. So I think what's going to happen is people are just going to get used spending a bit more.

[00:40:07] And and there are once I like something made close to home that I know I can I can depend on. That's important to me. And also does it's just keep in jobs and you know that's you know it's important to keep people employed.

[00:40:19] Let's say a big reason call this is to give people jobs and give them way of having a family way to anything by house or family and feel good about life, you know. And do good things people enjoy it. Yeah, that's fair. Be part of it. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:40:32] Is there anything you can share about what's coming in the future that you think changes in how things are going or how building might change. I'm hoping I'm hoping to get more control in big ways. Okay, good.

[00:40:47] Once you're talking about heading ahead and the half double headed gets to get to the sketchy. That pride doesn't affect the rescue people. Yeah, no. That those times where you kind of look back like I don't know your wallet back at the sketchy.

[00:41:01] Keep by it together and not blow up right now. Oh, I was on the great lakes what two weeks ago. And we had two days where I blew through the night. So it was about it must have been looking for some ways.

[00:41:16] Yeah, it was like six, seven feet, right? So it was pretty decent overhead. And it was my first time in bigger stuff like normally I'm on lakes and smaller things or whatever. So I'm chumming around some of the best wind around but not the biggest swell.

[00:41:29] So here I am on this stuff and girlfriend was out there with me and I'm like, Hey, did I, did I turn? No, you just straight line that thing. And here I am, really. Okay, you got this man.

[00:41:43] You got this and just focus and they look back and it was like, I thought I was turning but from this amateur level to pro level where they're turning, like on critical sections of the wave and like some of this new stuff where this crazy barreling and

[00:41:59] they were okay. Yeah, because you're where you're at. You put in a lot of time and dedication to get there. It's impressive seen with one another. It's really impressive and it's essentially we got a wave then just the level of people you see out there.

[00:42:13] People there are just like some straight landing run away just trying to survive and then other come on the next, next to us way beyond it way they're way just right in the pocket right in the pit just ripping it and I think.

[00:42:28] That's awesome. That's what I'm hoping we get to have you seen it obviously you should work really well with that. You've obviously seen a big change in Malay right with from 90% winter thing to what 90% league now. Well, I mean, that's as many exciting.

[00:42:43] Okay, to probably more like probably 30 to 40 percent players now. Wow, big job caught, which is to be strictly kind of beach. You will see maybe if there's one or two kits on it, they give a dead shock in there. And you're still there still not a win circles.

[00:43:03] I think the median age of the win circles right here is probably 7. Still that's impressive. It's impressive to see these people out there say, I mean, I was out. We're probably three weeks ago on a pretty big day at Uppers.

[00:43:19] I mean, it was overhead high at Uppers and there's a couple of win circles out there and one of the girls with their win circles. I talked on the beach later. She was 68 and she's out there getting captured.

[00:43:28] I mean, in the critical side of the goberlaked up, awesome. I'm 60 so I'm not too far behind or I still pretty thin stoked to see that. I got a few more years maybe. Oh, yeah, for sure you will.

[00:43:40] But yeah, but the progression's been an inch you know over here. I think the progression I've seen in the goages has been more inching to me though, because B. over here, you know, things are progressing very quickly over in Maui and went back to the coach.

[00:43:55] Oh my god, no one back there knows what it has a clue what they're doing. And you know, I was I got the hat during the like 2 through 2 a week on the hat during

[00:44:04] Dr. Edd and once of that, you know, the guys that didn't give me a hard time about it. I actually felt like I knew what I was doing. I wasn't had no clue to it. But then the next time I go back, like people got a lot better.

[00:44:17] And this time I'm back there and people are just ripping in the goages show. Now the progression I saw on the goages is very accelerated. I'm afraid of what I saw in Maui. But they took a few years over. I feel really start pushing things in the ways.

[00:44:33] Yeah, fair enough. But yeah. And as you know, I mean the old down and down one thing is just huge. I think that's actually one of the bigger progressions I've seen. The gorgeous how late will we're down one in there now?

[00:44:45] It's just a purse with easy but it's down one. Oh yeah, it's phenomenal for that. Where's your fair Maui here? Your model have two miles offshore doing that. So it's up to yourself. It's not good. Yes, we're going to go to your never more and half-lob them short.

[00:45:03] Yeah, the sure it's not as bad of a swim even if you get drifted down somewhere or up or whatever. It's not a huge deal. No, you always climb with the rocks that we're going to get out and hit your right of some work.

[00:45:16] So focusing on R&D obviously you've gotten the chance to see a lot over your pretty cool career doing this stuff. Do you have who's given you good feedback or R&D for your weighing mass? There's been a lot of people involved, especially the V2.

[00:45:36] The V2 was actually on the water for the first time in June of 22. And we didn't release it to the public until June of 23. That kind of goes back to more of our winterfing roots that we would test something to death before it released it.

[00:45:54] That was not the case with V1 because people wouldn't need them so quickly. That was a little bit earlier, quicker than you expect. Yeah, V1 or V2 tons of testing came to while it's been fantastic. A lot of great data from King.

[00:46:09] Probably the most sensitive people there is to change his to any piece of gear. Yeah, he's... And he is constantly testing. I mean, you see what the B-Charm H2-3 rounds come in tweaked some truth-earth.

[00:46:22] You never seem to go off for long sessions, it's always just constantly tweaking tweaking tweaking. Out loud. It always trying to gear. So he's been super helpful in that development. Mr. Bennett, fantastic feedback from him.

[00:46:37] We got some early master him, he really liked how it's all one of the worst stiffness. So we're a lot of stiffness to him. A couple of gentlemen in the garage I can't name, he's a red for a 40-spotter team. I'm sort of the people.

[00:46:52] We have a couple of words guys that got us along with feedback early on also. Those were a lot of early-dont patrol sessions, so people didn't suit their on and you were the point that it's describing mass for them who we needed to.

[00:47:04] We did that as well, apparently, they were a care amount of a couple of people. And who else... Casey Houser, Erdell? You just think good things for us. Hopefully Casey is doing well. Yeah.

[00:47:21] We covered him from some of Erdell's shelter, but he definitely got some good feedback to us. I'm going to need to as well. Really helped us out there. Awesome. And then, truly, I pretty much would be at the beach with VTunes any day that was anyone.

[00:47:36] And if I be getting some aid of testing to get out, I would. Okay. And I would frequently actually, especially if you got later in the process, you're not going to be on the right side of the road.

[00:47:46] I was looking for people that were, or beginner to intermediate wingers to do some testing to make sure we weren't going too far. They made it too stiff and too tweaky. So my history in Winster, and I know that Winster can kind of hurt itself because they made

[00:48:03] it a sport too technical. And I would obtain the general public. But I want to be very careful with that. It was me too. We didn't make those mass so high I'd perform it. It just learning could really enjoy it. What would that relate to performance too?

[00:48:22] So, mass gets too stiff and can just be too reactant. Okay. It won't dampen any movement of anything. And if you know how to win, at first you got to say, I got a little sketchy, pitchy, this and that.

[00:48:36] But it's about two runs like, oh man, I really like those. But some of it's, you know, beginner to early intermediate, they're like, I'm going to get on top of that pitching lesson with sensitivity that quickly. And so that was a concern we had.

[00:48:50] We actually bought a couple of mass that were over the line. They were so stiff that they were hard to control. Is there was any little trippinant in the water or just nothing, though? Oh yeah, I didn't forget about trippinant too.

[00:49:09] And I think there's a lot more of that over here, I'm valid a lot of places. Because you know, we have a lot of, you know, a lot of things on the ocean floor all over the place and water is moving up and down sideways.

[00:49:21] It's not just nice calm water flowing one direction. There's a lot of vertical movements of water over here, it's free quinoa. Yeah, that makes sense. Actually, a lot of tests we did at Uppers was because of that.

[00:49:33] Uppers in Omaha has just turned the big boy over rocks on the stuff that I mean, you can see a way of going to just see this big bubble ball in surface from where the sweat is going over.

[00:49:43] There's a lot of vertical movement there and things are too stiff, they can be kind of their ankle or defy style on the beach ball without a control at that point. Yeah, you can just watch. Yeah, watch the 75 year old wind surfers rip it out by gas. Yeah.

[00:50:01] Which is good. That was a little bit. All right, so R&D was then those were some pretty fantastic riders that are helping out with that. So they would come up, ride something, let you know how does it go from there to development

[00:50:15] because obviously you're not making a series of, you know, a series of custom masks, right? How is that process work? Oh, we did a lot of custom masks, yeah. We, we would make something tweak it. You know, again, being the way you do our own manufacturing. Oh, yeah.

[00:50:30] We want to change something that's like, you know, you give a speed that feedback at nine in the morning about something you didn't like. Three in the afternoon, we're sending out on the next iteration to test. No, so there's a lot of tweaking, we're changed.

[00:50:45] Maybe I have to change materials, change angles, listen that or top, to change them based on dial and things that. And that was a big part of it then. We probably went through, I don't know, 25, 30 iterations of V2 before we probably set on the release.

[00:51:03] And what's your release cycle? Because I know it was talking a key to have been Maui there and they were on like a two or even three year, but two or three years cycle on some stuff. What do you guys do? We don't. Okay.

[00:51:16] We kind of do, we kind of live at what we have and if we need to improve it or not. I guess I was what he said to me. We're constantly making tweaks. Yeah. Um, you know, we're constantly improving slightly.

[00:51:28] Um, since the two released, we've actually gone to using four genes for our base settings instead of just machine and my big blocks of limit. And that's something that worked out for a while, it took a long time to get a company

[00:51:41] to make the four genes to our quality. When you forge, no, you actually push it and flow it. But I do that, we're able to get actually even more straight up through the tapers that fortune, the base.

[00:51:51] And so it's just one of those things we've been wanting to do for a long time. We're finding out a company making good fortunes for our company. So the, uh, I think the current shipping B2s have now four traits. I think it's never machine and peer-to-peer machine.

[00:52:07] Oh, cool. So we're constantly making little things to change all the time. So you just as you make them the next shipment will go outside. They different. Yep. We'll go outside. You know, if we make low improvements, we do. You know, there's not any major block changes. Okay.

[00:52:24] And that's true. That's true in the entire water sport industry. Um, you know, it's, you know, just feel a Keith and you know, I mean, every batch and boards they get in are sliding tweaks slightly in for the constantly getting better.

[00:52:35] If you, you know, I like this stuff there, but, oh, you know, we're not a product company where we're about engineering company. So as we can make improvements, then we're breaking something new to the table.

[00:52:45] We can make something better enough just going to come out with something different. You can buy something different. That's why the knowledge skates are still the same. They have to fit for a long time. Let's look at that beauty. Yeah. So it's so much fun with that thing.

[00:52:58] But, um, can you explain to me? Because I have no idea. Why would it be like a wider at the top and it taper down at the bottom where it goes to attach the foils there, reasoning behind? Obviously there's reasoning, but look, doesn't know.

[00:53:12] I, um, different people have different theories on that one. Um, if you, you can do some paper that way. If you tapered some pad the top, down the bottom, less drag underwater from a thinner profile. And then more stiffness up top.

[00:53:27] So you get overall your overall mass to stiffer. Um, you still have a more bending down low than I probably use a little bit of stiffness. Uh, there's some people think there's some hydrodynamic benefits of the tapering mass. That one. I'm not, I'm not convinced on that. Uh,

[00:53:46] the, thousands of pages of testing that the Navy has done have not shown that. That's for sure. Um, we'll look at American's cups and I tape right there. They're struck see there. So there's a lot of, I think that just very congesture.

[00:54:04] Um, the reason we actually have some tapered our mass is mostly to make an easier range of action to be honest. We are, our view on this dead straight. And as I mentioned, we have an air tool and an air tool.

[00:54:16] Getting that air tool out is a pain about it's dead straight. I put in just a little bit tapered, then once it moves, we can pop it off easier. So part of our, our tapering mass is actually to actually help us make fashion mode as well. Um,

[00:54:31] the bigger thing for us was we wanted to keep it thin as much as possible. Um, a lot of industry talks about how you should be riding the top third of the mass or the mass and that's where they were. I'm not that good.

[00:54:47] I try to ride it at the top of my mask, but I'm not that good. Yeah. And I'm frequently burying my mass to my board even with times. And you know, I want something that is not draggates in the drop in the water. It's getting still down,

[00:55:00] but I don't want to be noticeable. And I mean, even just go out, you know, when you go out through waves, that you're going from very little mass in the water to the home. And then you're going to try to put your top away, if you know,

[00:55:12] unless you're trading your jet ball out of stuff. But some type of a bet, titanium neon on the chum. So get through that. So, so, to me, a big part of it is also to keep the old mass. It's possible.

[00:55:25] That have a big blow up top slow and drag it. And then just thin down bottom. It also goes back to the producer first in the sub guys to some take off. We're dragging the water. The harder it is to get, you know,

[00:55:37] you're going to have to speed up the water. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. So. And are there, can we talk a little bit about the different kinds of carbon that you can use? Like I've heard some brands are making foils with ultra high modulus,

[00:55:49] is that readily available or is it? Oh. Okay, we're doing carbon, carbon less and less and less to the meat for the real year. There's, there's many, there's many different drinks and stifiness in the carbon fiber. Um, what's known as standard modulus carbon fibers about a 33 million. TSI,

[00:56:14] Majus fiber 33 MSI fiber. That's got your standard modulus carbon. Um, some people would call that high, some people would tell call that high modulus because it is a very high modulus. Compared to something like fiber dots which is either 10.

[00:56:27] So it's a bill or even called a standard modulus carbon fiber high modgets. So the law of its marketing crappy gotta be careful of. Um, but from there, in the aerospace industry of standard modulus which is 33 MSI, what's called air, immediate modulus fibers and juicy about 42, maybe 44 MSI.

[00:56:47] You get into high modulus fibers which are, you know, in aerospace or 50 to 55 MSI. And then you get into what's known as pitch material, which are all five modgets is which you may have to up to 10, 12 gauge I. They're very, very high. Um,

[00:57:06] so the industry itself I know a lot of other saying the use high modgets fiber now. And I, and very few are saying what that action means. Okay. Um, so it's kind of a, I don't know what I buy there. Um, the nomads mouse were doing those,

[00:57:25] most then masses may be behind modgets of 52 MSI fiber. Um, we are using some 110 MSI fiber in the as well. So, but we, both those materials are material use consistently all the time for aerospace parts. So for us it's mature we have,

[00:57:48] we haven't stocked the heat and we frequently actually are able to cut patterns from mass out of, waste material from military hardware. Or you're actually using materials would have been scrapped otherwise, which is nice. So some green resource to let you know.

[00:58:04] So I mean that kind of, you know, the whole story here. Um, I do know one brand that was claimed they were using M55 J fiber, which is about a 68 or 70 MSI fiber.

[00:58:19] And I know that perhaps it would be us because we do a lot of work with M5J for satellite, for programs. And it's a heavily controlled fiber. Um, if the program we're working on does not have a government rating tied to it,

[00:58:36] we can get the fiber, we can buy it. It's only sold from military programs and hired level programs. So some of you say they're making mass out of that, but it's, if they are, they're probably going to go into federal tends,

[00:58:49] and we can all the other get in the journal. So because it's a resource that they can't overuse them assuming is that wire? Exactly. It's a limited resource. Okay. Very low that, but there's very low that fiber actually made.

[00:59:02] And then the resource that must go the right for a range. Hmm. Okay. But um, but I am aware of one of the companies and some 110 level side fibers, well, and there's one, some 110 and a 5,5 is more affordable out there. And by a 4, one,

[00:59:17] I mean, there are $100 a pound. So they're not, okay, that's for sure. To act. And for those of us who don't know how that applies to making a good mass. Um, the, the stiffer, the fiber, the stiffer, the mass. Okay. You know, pretty straightforward there.

[00:59:39] But the issue also with the really stiff fibers, is that they're usually pretty weak. Their strength goes way down. Those are stiffens, it goes up, the strength reduces. And so you have to balance your strength with your strength. Okay. Um, if you're making a solid mass,

[00:59:56] a solid length like most mass are out there. You don't really worry about strength is your basically building up, you know, baseball bat of a mass. So you can use weaker fibers and get by of it. Then use higher marginal fibers that way. Um,

[01:00:11] in our case we're making a very light mass where if then walled, we have to really balance our strength, our stiffness. That's why we use a combination of, well, high-moges pretty high-stree fiber and some very, some ultra high-moges fiber that's really weak actually. But it's stiff.

[01:00:26] We use a very selectively worrying stiffness. Because you guys are, we're just showcasing that one as a, as one of the lighter mass out there. So strength and light. I think we're about far of a light at actually. Oh, good for you.

[01:00:41] We, that was a really, we were, we wanted to make a light mask because the way the mass does matter again is the something people will say, it doesn't matter. But it's all mash-up accelerate. It's all mash-up to change direction with.

[01:00:57] But the lighter it is, these are just work. And you know, again, when surfing, when surfing spends a massive amount of effort making really light boards because they sail there. And they think of a floor. I mean, I'm writing a sub 10-toned floorboard right now. It's just spectacular.

[01:01:17] It's a little bit larger board, but it's so light. It just, so wippy. The chills are going to be around 35 liter boarding. About 75.0 board. Can you mention to us what that is? A George Foster. Okay. He's like custom voter hair, Maui. Oh, nice.

[01:01:32] In, in, I've worked with George on construction salmon. So I've told somebody why we've thought to new ideas are making some really light boards. And they, they work well. And so yeah, so to me, you know, keeping mass, I was that's very important.

[01:01:50] I mean, that my, my whole, my full up gear, my board, wing floor mass on and stuff, ways less than some, you know, a lot of those boards forgot that. Yeah, let alone with surfboard on it. Oh, yeah. And the lighter it is, faster,

[01:02:03] get tough going, jumps on the water and goes. It's true. Knees here, it is to, when you do your walk a shamp. Yes, you do. I did a big one of those two weeks now. You personal best. How's she? She's a big walk. Yeah.

[01:02:20] Do you wear like an an Apple watch or any kind of GPS watches and stuff on your own, Maui or I've seen that increase. They know I'm not smart enough smart, I just want to get one. I want to get one.

[01:02:31] I don't want people to know how far I had to walk on. Hey, honey, it wasn't a long walk today, but it was really fun. Oh, you're wasn't the fun when that was that, that was the bad day. It was a shit.

[01:02:42] That was a die that was a very light. Okay. Well, those days were like, if I fall off wall, I'm probably screwed. Oh, shit. Yeah, I guess that happens there. It happened to your lot of special when you're chasing weights and the ways are good and

[01:02:56] you stay out there longer than you should as it went straight to shut down. Just because the ways are good. If I fall off wall, I'm screwed. It's too good. I can't go. Just don't fall. So what you're telling me is that feeling

[01:03:07] of getting the next one never goes away. Just one more. Just one more all the time. Yep, nice. Just one more. Nice. I had something but I blanked. I was not going to say. Actually, it's fine with the drift one more statement. Yep.

[01:03:21] That was literally the last way that was catching myself home. Okay. I was riding with a ride and somebody y'all at me on the back. Oh, what was that? And I look back and say, oh, I didn't. Just like the back of the trail, I fall out.

[01:03:34] Oh, God, no. Yeah. That then turned into an hour of paddling and a long walk back. Oh, yeah. Was that, do you got dragged under for that? Did you? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I got my feet beatings on that day. Like I came at a pier once. Yeah.

[01:03:52] There's a long walk. Fair enough. Have you tried downwinding? Downwinds up? Yeah. Not yet. Okay. That was, I was, I'd said the goal for myself. That's both working on the summer and the garage. But the wild part, and the words that changed my priorities.

[01:04:07] So I'm not trying that yet. And looking forward to trying to see if I can learn that skill and embarrass myself for a while. Well, maybe because I was talking Alex there and he said he gave me a tour of the factory.

[01:04:22] So maybe you know, I'll do that next year. I'd love to try to that. It too. Because I got to demo your foil within F, or sorry, masked with an F1 foil at a WSI this year. And yeah, it was pretty cool. Yeah, it was good.

[01:04:42] Yeah, because I was thinking it was three or four. A couple pros that I recognized there. And it was like shoulder high swell that day at event site and with that current, you just keep riding and riding and riding. Or you can go on a rail.

[01:05:00] I see why the people that do it are really addicted to it. I mean, here I'm mow it, crazy in the days that we go for wing down wingers. I feel like when they only wing or out there anymore, it's a constant stream of guys on stuff,

[01:05:14] we're just flying by the idea. So where are they starting? Like, how keep a kind of that area and just starting down? Mostly something Maliko, Maliko, which is just past so keep a nice Maliko voucher. Okay, they go from there down to their,

[01:05:27] not all the way down the harbor. Okay, but they have to go out. How far you're saying? Like a kilometer? They most of the guys are doing that stuff for riding about Maliko half-three miles out. Oh, like two miles. So what is that? Like four K?

[01:05:40] Well, yeah, they're out there with us. Okay, that's what the big system is. That's what the guys are going to out to. Okay. Now, what does Big Mean and Maui Hawaii terms? Well, there's some days out there that you're definitely you know, heading at half-swells rolling.

[01:06:00] Okay. So, you know, three to four meter of small, they're rolling on them. It's an, I've dropped out on the waves. I'm just scared of death. Like, oh my god, don't blow up. You're just because it's set the big,

[01:06:11] long, or after you're just going to know your miles and out, it's not like a big wave, or you're working the face of it. It's just, like, hanging off for their life here we go. Yeah, that's when you got to deep breathe deeply. You can focus.

[01:06:26] Or crash enough to win their self-mab breathing. Yeah, that's true. That happens to have been stew. Well, for people who are looking to buy a foil and it's going to come with whatever mass comes with it. I guess is there anything that you can say,

[01:06:43] anything that you can recommend that would, open the door to you getting a little more beer at eight dollars a beer now. You know, I don't, I don't think there's a brand out that's forcing you to buy their mask with a foil at this point.

[01:07:03] I mean, they're selling anything separate. It, in there, there's some brands that are knocking main brands who those good and bad, but it's some that make good mass. Not to go to mass. And most people can find that out with a pretty quick Google search.

[01:07:20] There are no big talents and forms. And, you know, we're making masks for a lot of brands and we're doing them because you know, people want higher performance and something lighter and stiffer. There's also some compatibility things you can do with our mass. Jim String fellow, Stringy parts.

[01:07:40] He makes a lot of adapters that we're going to ask. But we get one of our masks like to come with three whole on it. You can then also buy adapters for less in that one and access in one month.

[01:07:52] So you can make one mass work with multiple brands. We want to have multiple brands and this option there as well. Yeah, I will say that the people have a mostly spec coin and cemetery. The ones I see in the beach testing all the time.

[01:08:05] And those are the guys that I have a huge oil respect. These are other work and working, working there out there on the water themselves. Doing it, you know, Alex with new go-fold. Same the beach, hotseeing dust. Testing boards, foils, waves, everything.

[01:08:19] Now those are people they're putting the time in their work and art. And you know, I've a huge lot of respect for that. And it's such an art. So you'll just, that's hard. It is. Yeah. It's hard and everything acts differently.

[01:08:33] And then, you know, if you're not at the right of yourself, I, you know, I don't. I'm not going to really pay attention to your designs. So, Try and ask. And there's a lot of different disciplines also. And that's a living part of it.

[01:08:46] And Alex is one of those guys. He does basically all the disciplines. Pretty cool. You can see them out there. You know, in the waves of coin, they say about winging. Same downwind, you know, he's doing all the stuff. It's difficult.

[01:08:57] And they're doing all the disciplines all the time. Always testing. Have a huge of our respect for those things. Yeah, that's a lot of time. There are the ones driving things. Yeah. Oh, it is. Yeah, that's our lives. And it's awesome.

[01:09:10] Yeah, I still have to put in those my time designing, say I like to rock it. So, I don't know if you'd play where you get a chance. But try and ask. I definitely try and put in the time of the water test on.

[01:09:19] Making sure I know what our career is doing. And I write a lot of other people's gear. I write a lot of other forums, a lot of other masks. I mean, I'm one of those guys that somebody often be there stuff on the beach.

[01:09:29] I'll be in the water before they, Thank you. Like one of them should offer me this stuff on the beach. Like, go up our trip. I think yes. Yeah. And then bring that stuff. Yeah, just get see what that rides like. Get your ideas from. Okay.

[01:09:42] Now for different disciplines, are there different masks that will be made or that you do make custom for certain athletes that will perform better. For there's not going on that path yet. Yeah. You know, different disciplines. You know, shorter masks from pro and longer masks, or, you know,

[01:10:00] maybe once you're falling, or waiting or hiding that type of thing, I'm calling. Um, we did most of our, and the based on a stiff enough mask, the 93 cent of air lake that works well. We're a little bit nervous about whether that would be two stiff at 72,

[01:10:15] but it still works fine 72. Yeah. We can make a slightly less stiff amount of 72. There's still work fine, but do we need to do that to pull another, you know, 53 hundred grams on the mask, probably not worth the effort. And so we have a gone there yet.

[01:10:32] I could see that happening in the future though. There's this things more and more specialized. I could say that, but we're trying to keep some of the sports still simple. Yeah. Like, you know, all boards are the same pin box. Let's keep something standard. Okay. Yeah, that's true.

[01:10:51] Yeah, that's true. Well, Steve, been nice. Is there anything else you'd like to chat about? I certainly got to learn a little bit more about masks, which is pretty exciting. Yeah. It's, I'm, A they all on me. We're just we're out there having fun.

[01:11:08] Just trying to push sports though. Not much more to have from there. So, you know, we're keep doing things or keep innovating as we can. And then it's fun being part of this for right now, but this is growing so fast. Oh yeah. I mean,

[01:11:22] I probably two times two to three times a week. I see some brand new piece of gear. I've seen your courts big. Yeah, it's really bad. Oh yeah. You're at the Maca. Is there anything you can pop out of there? Let us know what you've seen.

[01:11:36] Always curious what's coming out of that place. Actually, I just saw one of the new access masks that's kind of a backwards airfoil. And that I thought was really cool. A good friend of mine is Paul Beaker.

[01:11:51] He's one of the lead for other VAMSists for team oracle for various cowards. Yeah. And when I talk in quite a bit about, you know, masks design all that stuff we were doing. They told me if we're going just a little bit faster,

[01:12:05] actually they've already used a triangle from what the research is about. We're not going to fast up for that yet. But seeing that mask that accesses down that's kind of a reverse wedge type of shit. Oh, like, oh, that's a shit.

[01:12:18] So I'm looking forward to actually trying to, I'm hoping to get on that to be this coming week. Okay. I'm hoping to drive. Yeah, let me know that that was pretty cool. That was pretty cool. But that was cool.

[01:12:29] Some of the new new four of our senior pretty interesting. I don't think there'll be, I don't think there'll be the public's going to see in front of the year plus. But just some of the words and the fours are gone has been pretty interesting.

[01:12:43] I wrote a little 750, I thought a week and a half ago that I swear to have more or less than my 1980. I could not believe I was right in that small world because I don't know if that's just the least fast and really fun to her.

[01:12:59] So it's constantly evolving. Yeah, I guess so that must be pretty funny to be able to see all that. And I'll just be happy to get my hands on some handwings because I'm kind of, you're limited right now. What are you writing, hang way wise?

[01:13:17] Anything ABA gives you right now because I have done. Okay. I lost a couple of the sever because the fire and then I kind of had a bad day at upper is about a month ago in my beloved 35 F1 strike version one became a 1.75. Oh, no.

[01:13:42] Completely torn and fast. Yeah. And yeah, so it's then I've been trying to find a new stripe B1. I can't find those other ones to start point two. Really? What's all? You're right. Yeah. Are you going to sell? We thought. All right. We'll talk in the gorgeous. Yes.

[01:14:03] But yeah, I just speak that way. But I have been testing some of the arm strength stuff and the new arm strength wager. Paying to asking them I have been really impressed with those. But again, I'm a wave guy.

[01:14:14] So all I'm worried about is something that's disparaging the wave well. It has good punch to give me out where it's all between sets. Okay. My discipline a lot different than I was just. Do you like the wing? Because the strike just sits there in the pocket.

[01:14:27] It doesn't. The strike is too much. It just stays. Yeah. It'll be three. Well, I don't like that. I want to stay or what this fear. Mmm. It's kind of my thing. Again, like said, I'm chasing away. It's very specific discipline. I'm doing it. Yeah, no fear.

[01:14:45] I'm happy to see F1 kind of coming out with stuff. They're starting to separate into different disciplines. I was happy while I saw that one doing that. You know, first with this skate, there's skate balls. So actually guys, I'm just we're more surfaced.

[01:14:57] Now if their new swing that came out, which is kind of more folks in the wave ground. But I can't find a swing V3 anywhere to even put my hands off. Yeah, they make good stuff for learning. I think they're one of the top. I love those wings.

[01:15:14] That's what I learned on. I got other family members have them too and they're amazing. Yeah, like I said, I just like something goes away. So fair enough. But yes, say I was riding in the old wing I'd have. Old D1 wasp.

[01:15:31] I remember why that has nothing blown up in three years. Sorry wasp. It was it was just the biggest bag that the Nussi except for McMurray. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm like, oh God. Okay, it's one of that thing. What?

[01:15:46] Well, the Nash V1's were were of that. Of that one. I remember one of our buddies on the island got one and he was so excited. I'm going to go out and learn and 12 knots. And I was like, no you're not.

[01:15:58] And he's like, yes, I am and he comes back to the beach. He's like, can I grab your F1s? Yeah, yeah, here. They're good and 30 plus like when it's power. They're great overpower. They're great. Yeah, I'm absolutely amazing overpowered.

[01:16:14] But it says that I was fascinated by that. How certain brands came out with wings with I guess it's the same as those little. The old like super Nintendo games and stuff and you know,

[01:16:24] the Nintendo games before like you could pick your car and some had good steering and high end and low end and all that. I related to that. So bad wing and just depends what you want to do with it. Exactly.

[01:16:36] Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's I mentioned can whereas give current in mind. I write a lot of stuff for example, a lot of you know, test out stuff for him. And I'm amazed at how well those do a tones go up wind.

[01:16:48] How fast they are, how stable are there? Can say that's I can this is nuts. But it doesn't be here the way I want to be. I want to be the way to behave for the ways. As they do have that, though, okay, here we go.

[01:17:01] And I'd add a little bit of sway. I'm strictly focused on that way and not what the wings do it. Oh yeah, fair enough because when you're getting into like, Great, like, swell or smaller, like, swell like we get in the island.

[01:17:14] I like that because it helps initiate my turns and I'm trying to be more quick and snappy because that's all that's what I'm getting. So I can do that but I can I can see that because I use this strike.

[01:17:26] If you want this summer and I went to tack and it was still sitting in the other in the other area where I wanted. It's kind of a straight feeling, yeah.

[01:17:36] It's like, where oh yeah, it doesn't it doesn't follow me around in that way but as we said, it doesn't matter. It's based on that so. Yeah, good friend. Oh yeah, exactly. It's like, start everyone here to like do the baseball flick with the rear hand.

[01:17:51] You can get action go or watch go. If you don't have a little baseball flick, it just stay there and it doesn't care. Yep, definitely experience that but I guess we've covered a ton and is there anything else specific that you think somebody at home should know,

[01:18:07] probably not? We can. I might say no if I had nothing specific anywhere in this brand. Yeah, no, that was good rambling. I was, yeah, it was just it's it's not going to talk to you. It's just a point out there for me to get answers.

[01:18:20] So it's okay. Oh yeah, fair enough and here in the East Coast we have had two days in three weeks. I'm waiting now my next session. Water just got cold too. So that's good. They use your more floatation. Yeah, has true. Sounds good.

[01:18:38] It's a good drive suit on. That's another six five four with the holes and then I got this two males shirt and then I'm starting to think, you know, there's warmer places in the world day. Yeah, how is not far away? Max goes in the world.

[01:18:53] What suits in the world to the matter? See, they tear you know, though these seasonal limits mask and on break at least I know I'm safe with that but these wet suit's in all the. They're there. See, again, they're smart.

[01:19:07] They make sure you buy me whatever couple years. Yeah, that's it. So I guess what we can say is you got to keep the support triangle and but I just want to say I'm behalf of the people.

[01:19:17] I'm not sure if you can say like thanks for for doing this. You didn't necessarily have to. And just looking back at this, I think that there's so cold to be able to talk to you with with that whole history and then.

[01:19:27] Contribute it to a heck of a lot of fun out there for a lot of people. That's pretty awesome. Yeah, we have to have fun. That's for sure. We have to have good good choice play with because we don't have much time to play it.

[01:19:39] So yeah, that's true. I never liked to swim back in the winter. And back in the winter, and days that to me it's like I especially what I was you know, winter, the Midwest safety. It's so good day to get three or four good days a year.

[01:19:51] People break your gear one day. It's like they're going to say if I'm 30, 3% you're saying you're saying it from here. Yeah, yeah, I'm working on a break here. I always want to make sure you have a very trust. Yeah, actually. And that's why I just had.

[01:20:04] Oh, men of foils on. Yeah, they make well, yeah, you make their their masks. So that was, that was pretty cool talking to them. And I think they're, yeah, they're bored to manufacture by apple tree. So another kind of cool the A's all.

[01:20:21] Yeah, we were making the words for it. Yeah, so that's pretty cool. They're a good guy. It's like, let's go. I like, let me go. As you guys. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to get back to Vic there in the spring. He's going to take me.

[01:20:37] We're going to do some prawn and also just a minute. I mean, demo that thing and see how that feels like because you're using stainless steel. Make sure that plus carbon. Yeah, yeah, they're just machine things going on there with the structure.

[01:20:51] Yeah, I'm looking for it to see that closer. Yeah. Yeah, we do the masks and then we do a couple of bits for them. We're going to fund fun partnership, get that stuff for them.

[01:21:03] And they definitely benefit from all of our, are your plus of effort on the V2. Well, that's the thing. And that's exactly what he said because it's like I can, I said these guys are running such a high quality product.

[01:21:19] That's manufacturers and then why not want a form of a relationship with them and then help bring that product out. It can make sense for companies.

[01:21:28] Definitely make sense to then yeah, and then you're not, I guess your business model grows and then obviously more and more companies do that. Then we can. Yeah, okay. The the REC side of our business we've always looked at it.

[01:21:44] Some way just keep people busy when they have nothing else to do as we do. We do it because we love it. We don't do it to make them. Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's what I heard there. So making satellites and what else is your main maker?

[01:21:57] Although we do some military stuff. We don't really kill people. That's kind of why my thinking of Nervon. I've been one of those in my sense of weapon. I just I feel that if you're getting kills, I mean you go up close and personal within the kill.

[01:22:10] I'm not doing it from a thousand miles away. So, so but we do some military stuff on the defense side. Do some we do quite a bit stuff for a no rocket company done Southern California that lands rockets that we can't name.

[01:22:23] All the landings, somebody all at the link for them and much stuff on the upper side of the rockets. Oh no. So we're going to come in as we build parts for hardware and spacecraft. We got some, yeah, we got a lot of fluttering space.

[01:22:37] I'm still feeling on the flame on the planet, that's the thing. Which is that cool to say because they go up part three and made it actually on another planet now. Did you get too marms? I can't answer that. NDA. Yep, NDA.

[01:22:52] But we do a lot of satellite work. We go a lot of satellite private structure. Which is very intricate. I'm very, I mean, very light little pi and detail parts.

[01:23:04] I mean, some of the parts that we make actually are so delicate that in first gravity of one g of gravity, what actually tell the part of a problem or interaction. It will only survive into a job in space. One survivor just job on partners.

[01:23:18] So if we build some days, it's just kind of healing and balloons. They never feel the pulling the earth's gravity. So much. And some of those parts are made with the most expensive material we use of 8,000 dollars per pound on those little terries.

[01:23:39] Which is the kind of disturbed sheet. It has some dollars on the pound. Yeah. So highly regulated then. Very highly regulated and very, in various, good-a-game materials. You look at it wrong in the bricks. It's so rich and so, very.

[01:23:56] But that's, you know, we do a lot of stuff. We're also just in fun industrial work, uh, makes something, you know, different across lava industries. And all. And like I mentioned before, America's Cup. There was a lot of America's Cup boat out there in the past three gaurons.

[01:24:10] We went in a part where I'm, oh yeah. It's important to, a lot of different things. So we just stayed diverse across lava industries and, and recreation like I said, we do recreational, keep the fun, keep pushing the industry.

[01:24:22] And, you know, pop absorbs them over here, give them a stuff to do. And you rent a obvious still 50 bucks. So it's not too bad. We rent a 50 bucks of anything up there. Yeah. That's all, yeah. We actually have a 65-thats curve curve.

[01:24:36] So we go, purpose-built just for us all, looking the woods. We'll see if we can happen the woods up in White Salmon. So you see it looks real pretty good. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I'm going to come take it to our LB super cool to see. Yeah, awesome.

[01:24:49] Yeah, awesome. Be good. Looking forward to it. And if you make it to Maui, in order to find me, we're going to do such. I might be coming out this winter. We'll see. We'll see if I can organize it. But if so, yeah, that would be super fun.

[01:25:02] If not, it'll be hood next year. I would mind spending a month there. I'd mind spending a month there. It's so close to Vancouver Island. It is so close. Yeah. It's pretty cool. In summers, it's hard to be that place in summer. So, so beautiful. So much fun.

[01:25:17] Yeah. When does the current slow down? Is that June Jalaicone thing or September with so crazy isn't saying? It's hardly nuts. I mean, they control the current, sadly, there because of the fish. Yeah, fair enough. They will, the current will change based on the fish runs. Yeah.

[01:25:35] May June is always high current. We have so much snowm up there to get rid of it. But then, you know, June Jalaicone September, they kind of control the run. They settle to a fish. If there's many fish movement, they put more water through. It's not up.

[01:25:48] They hold the water back. Okay. Try and not. One of the good reasons for dams. Yeah. Yeah. I guess so. I guess so. In all the power of the generator, that's all in the story. Yeah. We can talk about that next time when your feet three comes out.

[01:26:03] There you go. But then we may all just be living on some of the power source. You never have. Yeah. Or maybe Mars. Guess what else to see with that happens? There's no, there's no lakes on Mars. That's one of the epicbower right now. I know. No lakes.

[01:26:18] No wind. Oh, there might be wind. But there's lots of wind. Lots of wind. There'd be no lakes. Yeah. Now that would not be signed on. Have you sailed up on Vancouver Island? Not to the Mars sir. No. No Mars it. No.

[01:26:34] I've not sailed off a Hoover Island. Let's sail for the Washington. I just went to up that Oregon Coast. Okay. Yeah. There's a couple of cool things. Hold spots. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this knit now does I guess one can mention it's fairly what it's pretty warm.

[01:26:50] This summer three, two, four, three kind of thing. And it's just a fan. It's not huge, chop. But you're in this old growth rainforest and you get to rip around. It's pretty special. Oh, that's cool. Yeah.

[01:27:02] We had a couple spots in the woods where you can make these little kitchens and kind of. You're completely removed. You just be full kind of remote off grid camping. Now it's changed a little bit. It's a lot more regulated.

[01:27:13] But for a few years, you would pull up. Do this path through the woods. I hope to not get eaten by a cougar because it's pretty much North America's cougar capital. And you just sit up there and then you'll see like 50, 60 guys first thing in the morning,

[01:27:28] ranging from 20 all the way up to 70 as soon as they see the first line of win. Because it's a thermal everybody's sticking their heads out. Pretty cool. So it's definitely a cool spot. And yeah, if you're ever in the area, let me know.

[01:27:41] You find to get your little son of a pretty sweet. You can obviously different kind of riding it's super crazy, but the wind is just if it's gusting more than one not people complain. It's a fan. I think yes, yes, he was from 6 to 24.

[01:27:58] Oh, how long did the six last? A time is long ago. So there's like, oh crap. Yeah, okay. They stay on the bump otherwise you're off oil. Okay. Yep. And then you got to what?

[01:28:13] Chicken, jib or what happens if you're getting close to a set and it's starting to, you just, oh, you just dive under. Obviously, but they're not sure. Yeah, dive under without weighing that or work.

[01:28:25] No, it's pretty much yeah, you're just, there's a big set of the scary kick and you have to just either get on the try you over the shoulder or you drive on it, go. Okay. Yeah, fair enough. Even if you don't want to.

[01:28:39] If it's doing, if it's doing this and big, I want it anyway. Yeah, let's fair. Even like what happens if there's no wind in your boards on the water? And you're just like chugging out.

[01:28:50] I guess you could try to, you could flat water, you could flat water, jib and then try to pump and then catch it. It's so pitchy, you'd kick it. Yeah, no. Going with it, it's not too bad.

[01:29:00] If you keep your, you get together and just kind of stay forward in the board. You can take off in those ways without anyone. But you need to be prepared for the consequences that you screw that motion up. No, on move up. Yeah, that's one thing.

[01:29:19] That's one thing my brother and I practice a ton is super light wind dry driving like when you're on on the water and just jibbing around around. I was telling some guys because I'm back and out of it for a little bit.

[01:29:30] And there was some guys who were saying like you're going out and pretty light wind and you can't get up and this and then that's not worth it. That's like, well, it's not, it's not for today.

[01:29:39] It's if I'm in slightly bigger swell even than like on terror other spots and it doesn't And I need to turn around like all these little pieces, I think because exactly what you're talking about now,

[01:29:48] if you want to go out and have fun in those conditions for beginners, it's all that stuff. Like it's not a waste time. Like none of that stuff is a waste of time. And I can now flat water, jib to say my butt at something like that.

[01:30:03] Yeah, yeah, it's some I've been working on recently because of very recent. It's when you're just sitting there slagen, each other again, we're like I need to go get the sinker down quickly and I can do it on a board that floats but I'm thinking about it.

[01:30:15] Oh yeah, I was going to ask what kind of what size and was it sinking or not? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And about 75 in a way, you know, 90 kilos so it's sinking. Minus 20. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that'll be how do you water start that thing?

[01:30:33] I can get on top of it and get moving. Yeah, all that little bit of a puff I could go. Okay, can you start or? Can you start yet? Can you start yet? Okay. Cool. Well hey Steve, thanks for joining me. Yeah, I'm much appreciate you around here.

[01:30:49] Yeah, sharing all that with us and hopefully it's interesting to somebody out there. I think it'd be interesting to a lot of people. Yeah, definitely since the V2 just came out and there's a lot of people talking about it. So thanks for sharing all that.

[01:31:04] How was made and then going doesn't into some of the history as well? Pretty cool. Yeah, that would do. Awesome. Well, thanks everybody for joining us tonight and next time we have Steve On. Maybe we'll talk about the V3. Alright. Cool. Thanks, like they were very well-talked soon.