Episode #44 - Balz Müller

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, welcome back to the show short update from La Ventana. I finally got on the

[00:00:06] water and had a few epic downwinders even got to downwind with Kane DeWild and Gabriella

[00:00:12] from Maui. They're running a clinic here in conjunction with Axis and Saladita Kite

[00:00:18] School. They're heading back home tomorrow. So I just wanted to say it was great to

[00:00:21] meet you both and wish you a safe trip back to Hawaii.

[00:00:25] Alright, this week's episode is with Balls Mueller. So we recorded this in the heart of

[00:00:33] Winter and we had a lot of questions about what it takes to Winter Wing. So we do go

[00:00:39] over some of that stuff in this episode and what it takes to be a Winter Waterman.

[00:00:45] So I hope you do enjoy it. We talked winter suits, gloves and then what it takes to

[00:00:50] get stoked when it gets cold. Now, if you haven't had the opportunity, I would also

[00:00:56] recommend that you give last week's episode a listen. It goes from Winter to Summer. But

[00:01:03] it was with Bomi and Vandralinden. We talked about the Wave Punta Preda. We go into

[00:01:08] what it feels like to ride that wave, her contest prep and we get to know her a

[00:01:14] little bit more. So that was a super fun episode.

[00:01:17] Now, don't forget if you want to support our show, there's multiple ways to do so. The

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[00:01:46] monthly subscription. So we appreciate your support and I hope you enjoy today's

[00:01:51] episode.

[00:01:58] Welcome to the WingLife Podcast, where we talk about wing foiling and the

[00:02:03] lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport.

[00:02:11] How's it going?

[00:02:12] Pretty good, man. How are you?

[00:02:13] Well, I'm fine. So, honor to join your podcast. We've tried for quite a long time, I

[00:02:19] guess. Yeah, that's okay. We always make it happen.

[00:02:25] Hey, thanks for joining me on this, brother. Like I'm super stoked to talk with

[00:02:28] you. I think it's going to be super fun.

[00:02:31] Likewise, because I'm at my wife's brother's place in the baby room. So

[00:02:39] that's probably the quiet, quietest room we get. And yeah, we've been on the road

[00:02:45] the whole day. Oh, yeah?

[00:02:47] In the month. I finally decided that it's probably time to decide that I have to

[00:02:52] put my surfboard in the garage and like, search under all this winter equipment,

[00:02:58] my old snowboard and gift snowboarding ago again. So we went ski touring.

[00:03:04] Oh, nice.

[00:03:05] Honestly, it needed a girl from South France, Flora. She's also well-known winger.

[00:03:11] Yes, yes.

[00:03:11] She's visiting Switzerland. So I was like, if even she's going into the snow, I

[00:03:16] guess something's wrong with me still sticking to the water sport. So I guess

[00:03:23] snowboard again ago and I love it. It's basically just frozen, I mean, frozen

[00:03:28] water. So it's a it all relates in a kind of way. And it was an epic day.

[00:03:34] Oh, how much powder did you get?

[00:03:36] Not that much powder, but we had a lot of fun.

[00:03:40] I mean, it was blue sky, not one single cloud.

[00:03:44] And where I live down in the valley, let's say in the big valley of Switzerland,

[00:03:49] it's fog and gray and cold since days.

[00:03:53] So it was just good to get into the sun.

[00:03:56] And it was beautiful.

[00:03:58] I mean, the Alps are beautiful and we we should take our chances and also do

[00:04:03] to snowboard. Oh, yeah, that's that's a world like world class over there.

[00:04:09] Like everybody talks about wanting to go into the Swiss Alps.

[00:04:12] I guess like you have to for us.

[00:04:14] Yeah, please go in them for us.

[00:04:17] You know, I think it's it's common when you're talking when you're

[00:04:20] talking about Switzerland, it's common that they think about snow sport,

[00:04:23] obviously, skiing especially.

[00:04:26] And and then I'm always telling the guys, yeah, but I'm I'm like 300 days a year

[00:04:31] surfing in Switzerland so you can do both.

[00:04:34] You know, it's not it's not that you that you're just limited to

[00:04:38] snow sport, which indeed is really nice or with the sports.

[00:04:42] Hey, but surfing in Switzerland is fun.

[00:04:45] And I guess. Yeah, I heard that also over at your place.

[00:04:49] There must be a switch with the storms and no one is sailing with the storms.

[00:04:54] They've they haven't gone into like I have some buddies that will go January,

[00:04:58] February, but I like my latest session this year was December 15th.

[00:05:03] It was five degree water, six degree air.

[00:05:06] And this is an excellent segue into winter winging.

[00:05:11] But so what we're looking at is like I was wearing an Excel six five dry lock

[00:05:16] hood. Yeah, yeah.

[00:05:18] I had three millimeter NRS kind of kayaking mitts.

[00:05:24] And that worked fairly well.

[00:05:26] And then I had old booties, but my five millimeter booties and my feet froze.

[00:05:32] But like we had three or four guys.

[00:05:34] And then a couple of weeks later, I'll give a shout out to John Vu and Marlon.

[00:05:39] He's surfed.

[00:05:40] He's surfed the Great Lakes or something on Instagram.

[00:05:44] I mean, just look that up real quickly for us.

[00:05:46] They're foiling all the time.

[00:05:48] The the leftovers of the storm waves are basically they serve every day on the lake.

[00:05:54] And that's foiling is a game changer.

[00:05:56] I mean, not every day, but we're foiling you.

[00:05:58] Bump foiling and weighty thing.

[00:06:01] You could probably surf every day on the lake.

[00:06:03] So I mean, foiling totally changed the aspect on on how to be a landlocked surfer.

[00:06:09] It's yes.

[00:06:11] But just as you open up.

[00:06:13] Five degrees, it's cold, but it's still doable.

[00:06:17] And my dad is always telling me if it goes below 15 degrees, I'm not joining the party anymore.

[00:06:23] So you're basically never surf in Switzerland, you know?

[00:06:26] Never.

[00:06:27] And and but what I realized that most of my friends, they do surf now the whole season.

[00:06:33] And especially the winter months.

[00:06:35] Yeah, the winter months are the best or the most exciting foil or surf months

[00:06:40] in Switzerland because we get those really big storms and we get some decent

[00:06:45] lake waves, lakes.

[00:06:47] Well, so winter surfing for me, it always been a pleasure.

[00:06:52] But now since a few years with the progression of suits of of the all the all

[00:06:58] I mean, the whole environment gets much better now for going winter sailing

[00:07:03] because I remember like when I was 12, my dad always told me,

[00:07:06] you're going to suffer a lot from these stupid cold sessions.

[00:07:10] So far, I haven't got any problems.

[00:07:12] But back then we were riding in like five millimeter suits with basically no

[00:07:17] isolation and now the latest six, five good suits and you even can put

[00:07:23] onion layers of of like thermal underwear underneath.

[00:07:28] You basically don't get wet anymore in these winter suits.

[00:07:31] It's true.

[00:07:32] So like what's what's your favorite brand?

[00:07:35] What's your favorite brand or what are you using for winter over there?

[00:07:38] Let's hop into this.

[00:07:39] I'm actually looking forward to this.

[00:07:41] Well, we're talking about we're talking about secrets for winter.

[00:07:45] Winter sailing.

[00:07:45] I guess there is no secret.

[00:07:47] It's just like bite on your teeth and just ignore ignore the the freezing

[00:07:56] cold temperatures.

[00:07:57] No, but I'm really lucky being supported by O'Neill since a few seasons

[00:08:02] now and they're firewall.

[00:08:05] I mean, it's their their wetsuits.

[00:08:08] They're a dream.

[00:08:09] Not only it used to be better when you're inside the water.

[00:08:12] So swimming in the water, you never got cold.

[00:08:16] And definitely I mean, now they're progressed also with the

[00:08:19] winter freak suit.

[00:08:20] So they also producing suits now which block the air quite well.

[00:08:25] So I'm a huge fan of the O'Neill products and I'm trying to I'm

[00:08:32] trying to convince them to produce some proper serious winter boots

[00:08:37] because that's the main issue.

[00:08:38] So winter surfing is no problem anymore these days.

[00:08:42] You can put socks like thermal socks and then winter boots on.

[00:08:47] So your feet are kind of fine.

[00:08:50] And then obviously those thick winter suits, but the hands they

[00:08:53] will always be the issue as you you always got them above your head as well.

[00:08:58] So you basically like get no blood circulation in your fingers.

[00:09:03] So the fingers are are always or will always be the issue.

[00:09:08] So what I'm doing, the best connection with the boom, what I'm mostly

[00:09:13] riding with these days is an open palm cloth.

[00:09:16] But the note to open palm cloth is ridiculous.

[00:09:18] It's cold.

[00:09:19] It's freezing cold.

[00:09:21] So it flushes every time it does.

[00:09:24] Yeah.

[00:09:24] But what I'm trying at I've been experimenting a lot with it is

[00:09:28] like some worker cloths like really thin worker cloths

[00:09:31] which are sealed.

[00:09:32] So at least like you have dry, dry warm hands and then the open palm

[00:09:37] is blocking the wind.

[00:09:39] This helps when it gets really radical.

[00:09:42] But I guess there's not really a magic trick.

[00:09:45] The only magic trick I'm always selling is go out there to two,

[00:09:48] three runs, get back to the beach, swing your arms, start crying.

[00:09:52] And then just do it again.

[00:09:55] Do it again over and over.

[00:09:57] And and as well, you know, it's it's it's all this episode is

[00:10:00] brought to you by Saladita Kite School in Laventana, Mexico.

[00:10:04] If you caught some of our stories yesterday on Instagram,

[00:10:08] you'll have seen that I just got in a couple epic days of

[00:10:12] downwinding.

[00:10:12] We got a 10 kilometer downwinder done with my buddy Mickey

[00:10:16] from Salt Spring Island.

[00:10:18] Today I got in an epic one with my friend Britt.

[00:10:21] We went from Latuna all the way to the beach and back.

[00:10:25] Heck of a fun time.

[00:10:27] If you're looking to learn, there's nothing better than

[00:10:29] getting a lesson from the pros at Saladita Kite School.

[00:10:33] They are positioned at Latuna and now that I've been here

[00:10:36] a little while, I've gotten the opportunity to visit to a

[00:10:38] couple different spots.

[00:10:40] It is one of the more beginner friendly beaches with some

[00:10:43] nice sand so you're not walking on any rocks.

[00:10:46] They do offer professional jet ski assisted kite and

[00:10:50] wingfoil lessons.

[00:10:52] So once again, they're at Latuna.

[00:10:54] So if you want to grab a beer after grabs a

[00:10:56] ice cream, grab anything, it is a nice little hub there.

[00:10:59] So you're not just stuck kind of in the middle of nowhere.

[00:11:02] So they have you covered if you want to learn how to kite,

[00:11:04] foil or looking into downwinding.

[00:11:07] They got top quality gear as well.

[00:11:09] So don't hesitate, book your lessons today by visiting

[00:11:12] SaladitaLavintana.com or send them a message on

[00:11:16] Instagram at Saladita Kite School.

[00:11:20] At Saladita Kite School.

[00:11:22] It's all in the head.

[00:11:24] I mean, if your mentality is, oh, it's freezing cold in the

[00:11:27] morning when looking out of the window, you're going to be

[00:11:30] cold the whole freaking day.

[00:11:32] It doesn't matter even if the sun is coming out, you're

[00:11:34] still going to feel cold.

[00:11:36] But when you get out there and you get up there fully

[00:11:39] hyped, sliding into a wet cold suit is probably even

[00:11:44] the best.

[00:11:45] Henning Nockel is always going into a wet cold suit.

[00:11:49] He's hanging outside his house.

[00:11:51] And you know the effect of getting into a cold suit but

[00:11:54] being fully hyped and pumped, like your body is

[00:11:58] generating heat.

[00:11:59] And as you're so hyped, you get out there and it might

[00:12:04] just needs the right person around you or the right

[00:12:08] surrounding as well.

[00:12:09] But if your head tells you it's going to be a good

[00:12:12] session, you're not going to freeze.

[00:12:14] I mean, definitely afterwards in the evening, your

[00:12:16] fingers are going to be blue and white.

[00:12:21] It's exploding.

[00:12:22] But also like just three days or three days ago, I tried

[00:12:25] to figure out what could be the solution.

[00:12:28] And from the moment I just forgot about my fingers,

[00:12:31] it got fine.

[00:12:32] And I've been riding for like 45 minutes without

[00:12:35] any problems.

[00:12:37] And in the very beginning, I was really looking at my

[00:12:39] fingers and when you even look at the fingers,

[00:12:42] that even gets worse.

[00:12:43] So I guess we're not going to find the magic trick

[00:12:49] here in this podcast today.

[00:12:51] Maybe not.

[00:12:52] But if I can give one advice, it's like it's the

[00:12:56] mindset as well getting into surfing and being

[00:13:00] hot, like pumped to get out there.

[00:13:03] And these sessions where you just think, it's not

[00:13:07] worth, then you just leave it and go home and

[00:13:10] dream about surfing maybe.

[00:13:11] It's probably going to be better.

[00:13:13] You know, we're probably going to have more

[00:13:15] progress than being on the water as a nice block.

[00:13:20] No, I hear you.

[00:13:22] I think I like that.

[00:13:23] So like, so you're recommending like a six five

[00:13:25] O'Neill hooded.

[00:13:27] I liked the Excel were the first year.

[00:13:29] My buddy and I just ordered some from Windspirit.

[00:13:32] I'll give a little shout out to Windspirit there

[00:13:34] in Quebec.

[00:13:36] So we bought some six five drylocks with hoods.

[00:13:39] That was really, really good.

[00:13:42] Now I'm thinking like, I don't understand why.

[00:13:46] Maybe you can let me know if you know any

[00:13:48] companies that are doing this.

[00:13:49] What happens if they had a five mil mitt and

[00:13:51] then a half mil or a one mil on the palm pre

[00:13:55] curved? No, not cut full neoprene on the inside.

[00:13:59] Very close but super thin.

[00:14:01] Yeah, super thin five mil on the outside.

[00:14:04] Like what do you think about that?

[00:14:06] Cause you would get it.

[00:14:07] I had it.

[00:14:08] Yeah, I get you.

[00:14:09] I have to, you know, I have to go back

[00:14:11] and once I can tell you an easy story why they're

[00:14:13] not they're not produced anymore.

[00:14:15] And the problem I face with O'Neill with the

[00:14:18] production department is simple.

[00:14:20] The warranties, it's so ridiculous stupid.

[00:14:25] But these, I mean, it's like, it's like,

[00:14:27] it's like shoes, skate bro.

[00:14:29] He wears his shoes two, three weeks

[00:14:32] and then it's gone to say with these gloves

[00:14:35] and the darkened gloves, I still have them.

[00:14:37] They're like super.

[00:14:38] I have like the four mil neoprene on the outside.

[00:14:41] They're pre-curved.

[00:14:43] So you feel like those kaya canoe gloves,

[00:14:46] which are like they're really like this.

[00:14:49] But the case, the case is that they always break

[00:14:51] here from the boom and that's probably

[00:14:55] the reason why they stopped doing it.

[00:14:57] And there's not one brand selling it

[00:14:59] at the moment anymore.

[00:15:00] And in my opinion, it would be a best seller,

[00:15:04] but you need to quarantine or let's say

[00:15:06] you need to tell the guys that if you use it

[00:15:08] multiple times, it will wear out and probably break.

[00:15:12] So that's probably the customer needs to accept

[00:15:14] that exact, accept that.

[00:15:16] But definitely that would be the warmest.

[00:15:18] And then my friend, he has these gloves

[00:15:21] and he put like a knit ball, you know,

[00:15:23] the air valve for blowing up the plastic balloon stuff.

[00:15:26] He put it here, he sealed it

[00:15:28] and then he's blowing hot air constantly inside his,

[00:15:31] his wood, yeah, he got like,

[00:15:32] he got like, warm fingers all the time.

[00:15:34] So he's fine about it.

[00:15:36] Always when I'm there with him, I crossing, he's like.

[00:15:38] Pfft, pfft, pfft.

[00:15:39] Pfft, pfft, pfft.

[00:15:41] That's a, that was a really smart

[00:15:43] and he even got into, like he even put tubes,

[00:15:46] like air tube through his wetsuit,

[00:15:48] which go into the,

[00:15:49] Oh, buddy of mine did that.

[00:15:50] That is blowing like the whole air.

[00:15:52] Through his wetsuit.

[00:15:55] And winging that smart, cause when you're,

[00:15:57] and then I'm always dreaming about the heated boom.

[00:16:00] I mean, come on, water sport industry

[00:16:02] that should be no biggie.

[00:16:03] Yeah, come on, come on.

[00:16:06] Electroshock once the battery is leaking.

[00:16:10] No, I'm fine.

[00:16:12] Warranty's lawsuits, it's fine.

[00:16:15] What's wrong with that?

[00:16:17] Also the heated pads, you know, for the feet.

[00:16:20] No, I mean, we're getting there

[00:16:22] and definitely the bigger,

[00:16:24] or let's say the more people are attracted

[00:16:26] by getting into these crazy conditions,

[00:16:29] therefore they could create a market

[00:16:32] and I was hoping so bad to join this podcast now

[00:16:36] and telling you guys that with O'Neill,

[00:16:37] we're at this point of having these gloves.

[00:16:40] I can tell you guys, it's in development.

[00:16:42] It's just a matter of time

[00:16:46] and that the development team

[00:16:49] is accepting the warranty pieces

[00:16:51] because it will break

[00:16:52] and it's gonna be a product which will wear out

[00:16:56] but how we need it, it's needed.

[00:16:59] So that can stop doing these wonderful

[00:17:03] brick-curved gloves which really had a thin,

[00:17:06] 0.5 millimeter nylon on the inside

[00:17:10] and as they were re-burnt.

[00:17:11] Yeah, yeah, as they were re-burnt.

[00:17:15] I had kayaking gloves, or mitts, sorry,

[00:17:18] and what I did is I cut the neoprene off

[00:17:21] and you know that like fire red insulation?

[00:17:24] I had that on the inside

[00:17:25] and it lasted like, I lost the mitts

[00:17:27] but they lasted two seasons.

[00:17:29] Yes, they tore a little bit on the side

[00:17:31] but they were still way warmer than my buddy's open mitts.

[00:17:34] Like they were amazing and I was like, where are these things?

[00:17:38] But I see what you're saying, warranties, returns.

[00:17:40] The connection between the neoprene and the nylon

[00:17:44] is basically where the boom is always,

[00:17:48] but that shouldn't be an issue.

[00:17:50] That's like, if you can build,

[00:17:53] it's like, I mean, you cannot accept everything.

[00:17:56] It's always a compromise, you know,

[00:17:58] but we're getting there.

[00:18:00] I see a bright future for stupid winter surfers

[00:18:05] which are just- Like all of us.

[00:18:07] Lost.

[00:18:08] No, it's, I mean,

[00:18:10] and it's, you know, we're not just a few

[00:18:13] and I realized today I was snowboarding

[00:18:16] and I missed the sensation of foiling

[00:18:18] because foiling is so smooth.

[00:18:20] I've been foiling yesterday

[00:18:21] and it's just like floating on my knees

[00:18:24] and hips they hurt today after snowboarding

[00:18:28] in fine conditions, but it was not prime conditions

[00:18:31] and snow foiling is yet to come, I guess.

[00:18:34] But I mean, it's just-

[00:18:37] I agree.

[00:18:37] It's next year.

[00:18:38] Yeah, maybe next year.

[00:18:40] I've tried it before, it didn't work out,

[00:18:42] but it's also, it's just another way to look at it.

[00:18:45] But I mean, I'm the sensation of foiling

[00:18:49] and what I've learned as well,

[00:18:51] downwind foiling, you're traveling with the wind

[00:18:53] so the relatively wind coming facing towards you,

[00:18:56] it's not a biggie anymore and it's downwind foiling.

[00:19:02] I'm calling it, it's gonna be probably

[00:19:05] the best winter sport

[00:19:07] because you're so pumped from actually paddling up

[00:19:10] on the board and then-

[00:19:11] Oh yeah, good point.

[00:19:12] Climbing on the board.

[00:19:14] So you're warm from the first second

[00:19:16] and then once you're flying

[00:19:18] you're not facing the freezing cold wind chill

[00:19:20] anymore in your face.

[00:19:21] So we've did a downwind just a few days ago

[00:19:25] and it was freezing cold wind chill way minus zero

[00:19:30] but it was no problem

[00:19:32] because we were traveling with the wind downwind.

[00:19:34] And as I was always pumping, connecting swell,

[00:19:40] I mean, we can always go on smaller foils

[00:19:42] and then it's gonna heat up.

[00:19:45] You're gonna boil in the winter suit, that's for sure.

[00:19:47] I even had to open the seat

[00:19:49] because I was so hopped in my six-five I was like.

[00:19:53] Oh, that makes sense.

[00:19:54] Yeah, and I guess your face is covered to here

[00:19:57] but your face is fine.

[00:19:58] Yes, and you're traveling with the wind.

[00:20:00] With the wind.

[00:20:01] And the hands are less of a problem

[00:20:05] because you can basically swing them lower

[00:20:07] than with the wing or the windsurf equipment

[00:20:11] above your head.

[00:20:12] So maybe this gonna be the best winter sport activity

[00:20:17] even for all my freeride friends

[00:20:19] which just wanna have this sensation of floating

[00:20:23] over the water and freeriding, true freeriding.

[00:20:26] I found proof.

[00:20:28] I mean, for me, I found downwinding is like

[00:20:31] the best sensation even though it looks ugly

[00:20:34] and it doesn't really like,

[00:20:35] it doesn't really attract people.

[00:20:38] When I looked into downwind and I was like,

[00:20:41] oh, this is gonna be another endurance sport

[00:20:43] for like the guys wanna kill themselves.

[00:20:46] And it is.

[00:20:47] In the kind of way you go into downwind,

[00:20:49] racing it's hard work

[00:20:50] because you're gonna be pumping and paddling your ass off

[00:20:54] to get going.

[00:20:55] But the sensation, the way I look at it

[00:20:58] is just floating down the water surface

[00:21:00] and this is insane.

[00:21:04] I guess we're not on a downwind, Portugal.

[00:21:08] What's that, sir?

[00:21:08] Whoa, yeah, we can talk anything.

[00:21:11] We can talk windsurf on this thing.

[00:21:12] We can talk foiling.

[00:21:13] We can talk travel and backcountry camping

[00:21:16] because I just saw one of your videos yesterday

[00:21:18] with Damien and Gwen shout out to those boys

[00:21:21] from doing amazing videos.

[00:21:23] And you had a really cool board bag

[00:21:25] that you could put on your shoulder

[00:21:27] because that's my problem on Vancouver Island.

[00:21:29] Like we walk like 10 to 15 minutes into our lakes

[00:21:33] and I have to carry a shoulder strap

[00:21:36] plus my foil stuff.

[00:21:37] And I'm like, how do you, but I love that bag.

[00:21:40] So we could talk about that later, but yeah.

[00:21:42] Yeah, the idea of that bag actually also happens

[00:21:44] here at our lake.

[00:21:45] We have one lake where we got to climb

[00:21:48] basically to the water surface

[00:21:50] and it's like a 50, 60 meter climb in height

[00:21:53] and it's ridiculous climbing down there

[00:21:54] and we always have to bring all the stuff with us.

[00:21:57] So my idea was of creating,

[00:21:59] or let's say the idea of this,

[00:22:01] of the foiling board bag is like that we have a bag

[00:22:04] that carries everything in the easiest possible way.

[00:22:09] And it's definitely a good,

[00:22:11] a good us's work to have.

[00:22:13] And as well, and my dream is to travel.

[00:22:17] I love traveling locally and foiling.

[00:22:20] It definitely changed the game.

[00:22:21] I don't need to go to Hawaii anymore,

[00:22:24] although it's beautiful in Hawaii

[00:22:26] and super happy what we got here.

[00:22:29] And I really wanna explore also the local playgrounds

[00:22:35] and this bag and also the reach up trial trailer

[00:22:38] for my bike.

[00:22:39] It's ideal so I can go to the furthest off mountain lake,

[00:22:45] bike up there with maybe not so ecological electro bike

[00:22:49] but definitely I mean it opens up new perspectives

[00:22:54] on how to get into watersport.

[00:22:57] And that's my dream to become more and more

[00:23:00] like a Swiss waterman.

[00:23:02] That's my goal as well.

[00:23:03] I wanna be a waterman based in a landlocked European land

[00:23:09] which is, yeah it sounds weird

[00:23:11] and probably seems awkward but it's possible these days.

[00:23:16] I think that's, but like our goal with this

[00:23:19] like we're all out there to push stoke

[00:23:21] and to help people get into this sport

[00:23:23] and you're doing an amazing job

[00:23:25] and I love your bubblegum shrimp hat by the way

[00:23:27] that thing's awesome.

[00:23:28] So, but like the only way to get new people

[00:23:33] into the sport is to help people access it

[00:23:36] and where they are and to appreciate

[00:23:38] what their local conditions are like

[00:23:39] and then to say okay so I have a little lake,

[00:23:43] it's gonna be, it could be a family trip right?

[00:23:45] You can bring your kids, you can hike in,

[00:23:47] you can camp, you're how like I can't imagine

[00:23:51] like how old is your little one now?

[00:23:53] She's now two and screaming around.

[00:23:56] I can hear them in the back.

[00:23:57] It's great, no but she's screaming around

[00:23:59] she's doing fine.

[00:24:00] We're expecting the second child on it's way.

[00:24:04] Yeah, in like two in three months already.

[00:24:07] So it's gonna, maybe it's gonna change.

[00:24:09] Maybe I get less water time

[00:24:11] but definitely wanna keep the quality of water time

[00:24:14] and my dream is to get her involved as well.

[00:24:17] If she wants to, I mean we already put her,

[00:24:20] the other day we put her on a snowboard

[00:24:21] and she was like,

[00:24:22] she's definitely feeling the stoke already

[00:24:27] and that's what I wanna share.

[00:24:28] And just as you mentioned like it could be simple

[00:24:31] but these in I guess winging,

[00:24:33] it definitely attracts kids as well.

[00:24:35] Even just playing at the beach with the wing in their hands.

[00:24:38] Also a lot that she can play not for hours

[00:24:41] but she's playing a long time

[00:24:42] with the wing in her hands already

[00:24:44] and with NCS we would produce 1.8 meter,

[00:24:47] 1.8 square meter wings so proper baby wings.

[00:24:51] Not only for the, we expect the big storm in two,

[00:24:55] three days so I'm already freaking nervous again.

[00:24:58] That's what I live for.

[00:25:00] That's what I live all about for,

[00:25:02] I mean these big winter storms.

[00:25:04] Though they're fun.

[00:25:06] No but it's true just as you mentioned

[00:25:09] like trying to make it accessible for many people

[00:25:14] and that's what's so wonderful about winging

[00:25:16] and almost I haven't seen any water sports

[00:25:19] which gives you this sensation of progress

[00:25:22] in such a quick time.

[00:25:24] It's not gonna be easy learning wing foiling

[00:25:26] but once you get into it, you dive into it,

[00:25:28] the windsurfing takes you 10 maybe even more years

[00:25:32] to be an advanced rider in wing foiling.

[00:25:35] You can become, I would not say professional

[00:25:37] but you can become a really good wing foiler

[00:25:39] within one season.

[00:25:41] We've seen it.

[00:25:42] That's true.

[00:25:43] We've seen it in the last summer.

[00:25:45] There were so many new young talents

[00:25:48] but also all the guys picking up the sport

[00:25:50] from ground zero to an advanced level

[00:25:54] where they even forced themselves to do the first jumps

[00:25:58] which in windsurfing, I have many friends,

[00:26:01] even like persons like my dad

[00:26:03] which are just going back and forward for a long time

[00:26:06] never have even dare of trying, yeah.

[00:26:08] Even dare of trying a car thing 360 or something like this

[00:26:12] and somehow wing foiling opened up this dance floor

[00:26:15] in a whole new way and people get creative

[00:26:18] because the whole tool is made to be prune creative

[00:26:22] as it's not connected, it's not limited

[00:26:25] in terms of possibilities.

[00:26:28] I love winging.

[00:26:31] Did you think that winging would get to this point

[00:26:34] where we have rapid expansion?

[00:26:37] Like I watched like an interview with you and Damon

[00:26:39] from two years ago

[00:26:40] and just like all the moves and things that you guys,

[00:26:43] like I think you were just trying

[00:26:44] to get your first back flips then.

[00:26:46] Yeah, back flip was like-

[00:26:47] And your wife had mentioned tuck your knees.

[00:26:50] You gotta tuck your knees

[00:26:51] and that's gonna get you around.

[00:26:52] She said okay, okay.

[00:26:53] And now, and now I'm facing,

[00:26:56] you know in wing foiling it within the last three years

[00:26:59] I had like three times

[00:27:01] that I've got to force myself creating

[00:27:03] or like doing a trick which I cannot even imagine.

[00:27:07] I'm always like telling everyone,

[00:27:08] you got to dream the trick,

[00:27:10] you got to imagine the trick.

[00:27:11] And I mean I was trying to imagine the back flip for months

[00:27:16] and it just didn't happen.

[00:27:17] And now the same with the front flip again

[00:27:19] and then now with the backmops.

[00:27:22] But that's so crazy about this board

[00:27:25] and the potential is huge.

[00:27:28] And definitely I mean where this is all going

[00:27:33] or like heading to and it's my plunge.

[00:27:41] So how did you get like your first,

[00:27:44] cause I know you were talking in that video

[00:27:45] about visualizing so what was it

[00:27:47] that allowed you to get those moves?

[00:27:49] Was it like and how do you create them?

[00:27:52] You know what's crazy with the back flip?

[00:27:55] I actually had to get off the water to learn the back flip

[00:27:58] cause from windsurfing

[00:28:00] I have this like weird sideways shoulder rotation.

[00:28:04] So always when I jumped on a trampoline

[00:28:06] I was not able to actually do the back flip

[00:28:08] in a straight line.

[00:28:09] No, I took my 1.8 square meter wing

[00:28:14] I actually didn't put enough air in the wing

[00:28:16] so I kind of had like two, three PSI pressure in it.

[00:28:20] So it's hold the shape.

[00:28:22] And then I went on the trampoline

[00:28:24] and then I started jumping as I've seen stars

[00:28:26] for a few multiple times.

[00:28:28] But the case is when you go down head first on the wing

[00:28:31] as there's no richer piece on that old soft handled wing

[00:28:36] it was just like I was jumping

[00:28:37] and the wing didn't got damaged and neither did I.

[00:28:43] So I mean, I had to get on the trampoline

[00:28:46] that I did multiple backflips.

[00:28:48] Okay.

[00:28:49] And that definitely was the extra that I needed.

[00:28:54] So I am, and the kind of guy I always tell you

[00:28:58] to close your eyes and try to visualize

[00:29:01] but you also got to create

[00:29:05] or like do similar movements

[00:29:08] or find possibilities how to do similar movements

[00:29:11] and definitely most of these crazy tricks at the moment

[00:29:14] are trampoline tricks.

[00:29:17] And all these kids also Chris

[00:29:19] he's really talented on the trampoline as well.

[00:29:22] So that definitely helps.

[00:29:24] And I'm not this acrobatic gymnastic dude

[00:29:27] I'm rather the go out and send guy

[00:29:31] and just like see what happened.

[00:29:33] And with the backflip that's it kind of works

[00:29:37] but it's also gonna be very expensive

[00:29:39] in term of breaking leading edges.

[00:29:41] So if you're everyone, everyone out there

[00:29:44] listening to this podcast crew

[00:29:46] potentially land the backflip.

[00:29:49] I mean, it doesn't matter.

[00:29:50] I'm a hundred percent sure you could do it as well

[00:29:52] if conditions line up right and your mindset is right

[00:29:56] and you've done maybe a few on the trampoline

[00:29:58] and you feel natural with the movement.

[00:30:01] You get there, you boost

[00:30:02] and you bring your front hand above your head

[00:30:05] you look to the wing tip

[00:30:07] to backwards to the wing tip

[00:30:09] and you have it.

[00:30:12] And there's no way that you're gonna hurt yourself

[00:30:15] when you go for it.

[00:30:17] But the case is that most of the people

[00:30:19] they get into the rotation, they block

[00:30:22] they open their shoulders

[00:30:23] they look backwards to the side

[00:30:26] and then they go ahead first onto the wing

[00:30:28] which hurts a lot.

[00:30:31] But I'm...

[00:30:32] Yeah, I mean...

[00:30:33] What I commit

[00:30:35] commitment is everything.

[00:30:36] The same, the same

[00:30:38] I'm facing the same problem now with the backmip

[00:30:40] if I commit for it, I land it

[00:30:42] and then I like it's so easy

[00:30:44] super smooth, it's like slick

[00:30:46] it's there

[00:30:47] and then I try three, four attempts

[00:30:51] completely different

[00:30:52] like totally

[00:30:53] like from the take off everything goes wrong

[00:30:56] and different

[00:30:57] and then I break a leading edge

[00:30:59] and then I'm like afraid of doing it again

[00:31:03] for like two, three months

[00:31:04] because it's...

[00:31:05] I mean it's pain in the ass

[00:31:06] breaking a wing every attempt you go for it.

[00:31:10] So definitely

[00:31:12] when you decide to do it

[00:31:13] you got to do it

[00:31:14] and then you got to do it right

[00:31:16] and I would say these days at every

[00:31:18] at every

[00:31:20] at every place you almost find someone

[00:31:22] who can explain your backflip already on the wing

[00:31:25] so it's not

[00:31:26] backflip is not going to be the biggie anymore

[00:31:29] No, anymore

[00:31:30] What is the next

[00:31:31] the double backflip

[00:31:33] each one did it two years ago

[00:31:36] when you ask him definitely

[00:31:38] he was kind of scared

[00:31:40] but he told me that

[00:31:41] it didn't felt that crazy

[00:31:43] and he's even

[00:31:44] really?

[00:31:45] he even told me he's surprised

[00:31:46] that more people doing it

[00:31:49] and I'm kind of also shocked

[00:31:50] that we haven't seen more doing it

[00:31:52] but it's gonna happen for sure

[00:31:54] even out of flat water

[00:31:59] How was like how did the

[00:32:00] how did competition go this year

[00:32:02] you're like you run GWA and PWA

[00:32:05] like how did the year turn out for you

[00:32:07] well

[00:32:07] in a personal level

[00:32:09] it doesn't

[00:32:09] Yeah, from a personal level

[00:32:11] I feel like I'm still progressing

[00:32:13] but in a different

[00:32:15] I'm living in a different time zone

[00:32:16] it seems like I'm

[00:32:18] I'm growing older maybe

[00:32:19] that's the case

[00:32:21] but

[00:32:22] I mean these kids

[00:32:23] they just progress within a session

[00:32:25] and

[00:32:27] for the first time ever

[00:32:29] this especially this season

[00:32:30] I realized

[00:32:31] how hard it is to actually progress on human oevers

[00:32:34] and in my needs more than just one attempt

[00:32:37] and so far I was

[00:32:39] I was just probably favorite

[00:32:40] that

[00:32:41] tricks were just lining up

[00:32:42] and it was

[00:32:43] I mean connected especially with

[00:32:45] when I could relate to windsurfing

[00:32:48] so

[00:32:49] I mean but it's not that it happened overnight

[00:32:51] I'm

[00:32:52] I'm windsurfing all my life

[00:32:53] it's over two

[00:32:54] yeah over 20 years

[00:32:56] I'm already windsurfing

[00:32:57] so it's definitely

[00:32:58] multiple hours of

[00:33:00] of getting

[00:33:02] getting these tricks or like

[00:33:04] movements linked together

[00:33:07] now about this season

[00:33:09] you know I can only

[00:33:11] it can only get worse from now

[00:33:13] and that's how it feels for me

[00:33:15] because I

[00:33:16] I was at two years

[00:33:17] I was kind of

[00:33:19] there

[00:33:19] and I was

[00:33:21] I was doing good results

[00:33:24] and I'm a very eager person

[00:33:26] that's why I love competing

[00:33:27] like everyone who's

[00:33:29] facing himself into this

[00:33:30] ugly situation of competing against

[00:33:32] probably a friend of you

[00:33:34] but the case is that

[00:33:36] that what I love most about the competition

[00:33:39] and still do love most about competing

[00:33:42] is that it really like it

[00:33:44] it pushes anybody up to

[00:33:47] up and over his comfort zone

[00:33:49] and that's the best

[00:33:50] good point

[00:33:51] progress

[00:33:52] so this season I did

[00:33:53] I did

[00:33:54] I had humbling feelings

[00:33:57] where I was really not performing well

[00:33:59] in my opinion

[00:34:01] but in a kind of way

[00:34:02] it was also

[00:34:03] the guy kicking me in the ass

[00:34:04] or myself kicking me in the ass

[00:34:06] and then I did

[00:34:07] I wrote better afterwards

[00:34:08] so yeah

[00:34:10] and I guess from the very moment

[00:34:12] you just

[00:34:13] you decide to stop competing

[00:34:16] because that's

[00:34:16] I've been thinking all the time

[00:34:18] about stop

[00:34:19] stopping competing

[00:34:20] because it's useless

[00:34:21] almost in a kind of way

[00:34:22] competing against a 60 year old kid

[00:34:24] that does multiple rotation

[00:34:27] but that would be like

[00:34:28] deciding to stop progressing

[00:34:30] so I'm not going to keep progressing

[00:34:33] until the very end of my life

[00:34:35] and my main goal now

[00:34:36] is just to like

[00:34:38] progress every day

[00:34:39] either it is in

[00:34:40] maybe not with a double backflip

[00:34:43] but definitely with like

[00:34:44] the sensation

[00:34:46] and having fun on the water

[00:34:47] that's the

[00:34:48] the most

[00:34:49] the most important part

[00:34:51] yeah that's true

[00:34:53] so that

[00:34:54] and I'm very happy

[00:34:55] that for this season

[00:34:56] I have the excuse of becoming a second child

[00:34:58] so I don't

[00:34:59] have to necessarily do all

[00:35:02] all the events

[00:35:04] and I'm definitely looking forward to

[00:35:06] compete

[00:35:07] competing more this season again

[00:35:08] but

[00:35:10] and

[00:35:11] we will see

[00:35:12] I'm just super stoked

[00:35:14] being part of this revolution

[00:35:16] ongoing still ongoing revolution

[00:35:18] and my main goal is

[00:35:19] to actually laugh

[00:35:20] with quite a long list of

[00:35:22] probably possible

[00:35:25] dream tricks

[00:35:26] and I hope to make them happen

[00:35:28] can we

[00:35:30] can we share those

[00:35:31] or are we gonna keep those

[00:35:32] under your

[00:35:32] under your hat

[00:35:34] top secret

[00:35:35] I'm the guy who's top secret

[00:35:37] no but what I

[00:35:38] what I lately started doing is like

[00:35:40] very crazy like wing flips in year

[00:35:43] so and also in Brazil

[00:35:44] I had like the first

[00:35:46] time the

[00:35:47] the kind of sensation of doing like a tight loop

[00:35:50] where it feels like

[00:35:51] wing flips

[00:35:52] and then I started doing like those back rolls

[00:35:55] where the wing was flipping

[00:35:56] the other way around in the air

[00:35:58] it's just

[00:35:59] like it

[00:36:00] seems like the shoulder is

[00:36:02] totally

[00:36:03] dislocated during the move

[00:36:05] but then when you come around

[00:36:06] and you land you're like

[00:36:07] oh

[00:36:08] kind of possible

[00:36:09] like

[00:36:09] dropping out here like a cat

[00:36:11] and then

[00:36:12] I'm still alive

[00:36:14] whoa that would be pretty neat

[00:36:17] actually talking about family

[00:36:19] how is being a pro athlete

[00:36:22] and having that

[00:36:23] little one now with you

[00:36:25] to grow your family

[00:36:26] like

[00:36:27] how is traveling with your

[00:36:28] your family and stuff

[00:36:29] that must be pretty special

[00:36:31] it's so special

[00:36:32] the best thing is that you always have

[00:36:34] like I'm

[00:36:35] I'm feeling really blessed

[00:36:37] that I can bring the whole family

[00:36:39] to the

[00:36:39] to the beach

[00:36:41] and that it also works out

[00:36:42] because it could have been a total disaster

[00:36:44] but we've been

[00:36:45] on the canneries this summer

[00:36:47] we were traveling with our van

[00:36:49] and Lotta she's so in love

[00:36:51] with sleeping in the van

[00:36:53] that even now the other day

[00:36:54] she was telling

[00:36:54] it's freezing cold

[00:36:55] she was telling

[00:36:56] let's go

[00:36:56] let's go in the van

[00:36:57] and I want to go van tripping

[00:36:59] and then

[00:37:00] we tried to sleep in the van

[00:37:02] the other day in the Alps

[00:37:03] where it was like minus

[00:37:04] few degrees outside

[00:37:05] and we had the heating on

[00:37:07] but it was so freaking cold

[00:37:09] no but she

[00:37:11] she likes it

[00:37:12] and traveling as a family

[00:37:13] for me that's like the best thing

[00:37:15] that that was

[00:37:16] that's what I was always dreaming about

[00:37:18] like I'm

[00:37:19] for me I want to

[00:37:20] I want to enjoy

[00:37:22] enjoy traveling

[00:37:23] and share the stalk

[00:37:25] with the family

[00:37:26] I give this further to

[00:37:28] the next generations as well

[00:37:30] and it's possible

[00:37:31] it's only a matter of

[00:37:33] of doing it

[00:37:35] and if you have this comfortable life

[00:37:37] sitting around at home

[00:37:39] and everything is well organized

[00:37:41] and you're not expecting

[00:37:43] something bad to happen

[00:37:44] then

[00:37:46] you will be fine back home

[00:37:47] but if you go out there

[00:37:48] and you try

[00:37:50] something which might

[00:37:51] gonna not work out then

[00:37:54] well you're never gonna fail

[00:37:56] unless you're not trying it

[00:37:59] that is true

[00:37:59] and unless you're pushing your own

[00:38:02] psychological emotional limits

[00:38:04] and then pursuing those goals

[00:38:05] because you don't know what's beyond

[00:38:07] that fear or that

[00:38:08] how do you

[00:38:09] how do you handle fear

[00:38:11] throwing down

[00:38:12] like that's my buddy last night

[00:38:13] he said man

[00:38:14] you gotta ask him like

[00:38:15] how the heck does he handle all that fear

[00:38:17] cause he

[00:38:18] like some of our guys here

[00:38:19] they're afraid just doing

[00:38:20] like a little

[00:38:21] a job

[00:38:22] yeah

[00:38:23] fear is pushing

[00:38:24] fear can push a lot

[00:38:26] it's actually a good question

[00:38:28] I'm definitely also a person

[00:38:29] I like it

[00:38:30] I would love it structured

[00:38:32] and safe

[00:38:33] and clean

[00:38:33] and everything like

[00:38:34] organized

[00:38:35] organized

[00:38:37] but

[00:38:38] organized

[00:38:39] and

[00:38:41] as a freestyler

[00:38:42] I'm

[00:38:43] I'm always facing myself

[00:38:45] being out of the comfort zone

[00:38:46] and not

[00:38:47] not really knowing

[00:38:48] what comes tomorrow

[00:38:50] and I guess it's

[00:38:51] it's really nice to live that way as well

[00:38:54] because it's

[00:38:54] yep

[00:38:56] I don't want to force myself

[00:38:58] but fear

[00:38:59] and

[00:39:00] I get

[00:39:01] I get scared

[00:39:03] but scare

[00:39:04] scaredness is

[00:39:05] it always needs to be in a

[00:39:06] in a natural environment

[00:39:08] if you

[00:39:09] if you're scared of

[00:39:10] of

[00:39:11] for your life for example

[00:39:12] that's

[00:39:13] that can be

[00:39:14] that can be bad

[00:39:16] but it's also like

[00:39:17] you'll be always

[00:39:17] kept to today

[00:39:18] when we did the tour

[00:39:19] we were talking about it

[00:39:21] I mean

[00:39:21] I don't want to risk my life

[00:39:23] in an avalanche

[00:39:24] but yes

[00:39:25] like getting out of your comfort zone

[00:39:27] with your body

[00:39:29] in terms of endurance

[00:39:30] or like

[00:39:31] physically

[00:39:32] mentally

[00:39:33] whatever

[00:39:34] is not the same as getting

[00:39:36] getting at the limit

[00:39:37] playing with the natural

[00:39:38] natural environment

[00:39:40] and the elements

[00:39:40] because

[00:39:41] I'm not the guy

[00:39:42] who wants to fool around

[00:39:43] with the elements

[00:39:45] because I know

[00:39:46] nature is much stronger than us

[00:39:48] we can do whatever

[00:39:49] the fuck

[00:39:50] we

[00:39:50] we love too

[00:39:51] but

[00:39:52] playing with the

[00:39:53] with the nature

[00:39:54] we're gonna lose for sure

[00:39:55] so

[00:39:56] mm-hmm

[00:39:57] there's like the

[00:39:58] there's like the difference between

[00:40:00] I'm

[00:40:01] freaking scared of big waves

[00:40:02] I'm freaking scared of strong wind

[00:40:04] but I love to play in it

[00:40:06] and I love

[00:40:07] yes

[00:40:07] to push my body

[00:40:08] in a

[00:40:09] in a healthy and

[00:40:11] and

[00:40:12] safe environment

[00:40:13] and that's

[00:40:14] you can always like

[00:40:15] get to yet

[00:40:16] of that line

[00:40:17] and you always like

[00:40:18] that's true

[00:40:19] personally I'm always going over the line

[00:40:21] but you got to step

[00:40:23] you got to step it up

[00:40:24] otherwise you will not progress

[00:40:25] and

[00:40:26] that's for me

[00:40:27] I mean that's the

[00:40:28] that's the best feeling in the world with that

[00:40:31] when you realize that you

[00:40:32] you're progressing

[00:40:34] in term of like

[00:40:37] facing your fears

[00:40:38] yeah well and there's so many people out there

[00:40:41] that are facing their fears in this way

[00:40:42] and I think it's really important too

[00:40:45] because it helps you

[00:40:46] I think what it does

[00:40:47] is it kind of helps you appreciate

[00:40:49] so many other things

[00:40:51] in your life

[00:40:52] if things are too organized

[00:40:53] like I would go down to the sandbanks launch

[00:40:55] it'd be minus two

[00:40:56] and sleep in my Subaru

[00:40:57] and then we would get up in the morning

[00:40:59] freezing cold

[00:40:59] go have a super fun session

[00:41:01] and rip it up

[00:41:02] and

[00:41:02] and then my buddy said

[00:41:03] you didn't look scared at all

[00:41:04] I said actually

[00:41:05] I went to the woods

[00:41:05] twice to take a shit

[00:41:07] I was terrified

[00:41:08] I talked myself for 15 minutes

[00:41:10] and then because I only lasted 10 minutes

[00:41:13] in like 30

[00:41:13] and 10

[00:41:14] foot swell

[00:41:15] I was mad all the way home

[00:41:17] because I didn't push myself

[00:41:18] hard enough

[00:41:19] so it's like next time

[00:41:20] we're gonna overcome that fear

[00:41:21] we're gonna keep going

[00:41:22] but it's in a safe environment

[00:41:24] at least you tried

[00:41:26] because you could also just

[00:41:27] surfed on the internet

[00:41:29] and had probably a great time as well

[00:41:31] but it would not be fulfilling

[00:41:33] because your body is not like

[00:41:36] your body did nothing in the end

[00:41:38] it's just like your brain telling you

[00:41:40] that you

[00:41:42] you watch something

[00:41:43] but I mean

[00:41:44] it's so important

[00:41:45] that you get out there

[00:41:46] and surf the real waves

[00:41:48] and not only

[00:41:50] yeah the worldwide waves

[00:41:51] controversial ones

[00:41:52] and not the VR waves

[00:41:54] yeah

[00:41:55] yes

[00:41:55] that's true

[00:41:56] that probably could help

[00:41:57] actually do you think it would?

[00:41:59] I guess so

[00:42:00] do you think that can help?

[00:42:02] I just know from

[00:42:04] I haven't really played

[00:42:06] any games or whatever

[00:42:07] but I was always in love with Tony Hawk

[00:42:09] and I would love to see

[00:42:11] actually a game similar

[00:42:12] like Tony Hawk in water sport

[00:42:14] existing

[00:42:15] because I learned all the tricks

[00:42:17] the names of the tricks

[00:42:18] and I remember like with my skate dudes

[00:42:20] I was always like

[00:42:21] we were gaming Tony Hawk

[00:42:22] and then we were like

[00:42:24] after like one hour maybe

[00:42:26] we were like let's go out there

[00:42:27] and try these tricks

[00:42:28] so we got hyped about the sport

[00:42:30] and we started dreaming

[00:42:31] about the tricks

[00:42:32] and the possibilities

[00:42:34] I have an idea

[00:42:36] let's do it

[00:42:37] we could do a balls muller video game

[00:42:41] that would be so fun

[00:42:42] I will

[00:42:43] that would be

[00:42:44] that would probably

[00:42:45] it probably would help

[00:42:47] progressing

[00:42:49] and definitely

[00:42:50] it would probably

[00:42:50] maybe it would also motivate people

[00:42:52] you know in a kind of way

[00:42:53] it would be nice

[00:42:54] well

[00:42:55] people love

[00:42:56] just people love

[00:42:57] the energy that you bring

[00:42:58] because you can be a pro athlete

[00:43:00] and you can be a pro athlete

[00:43:02] there's

[00:43:02] there's a variety of different human beings

[00:43:04] and there's some human beings

[00:43:05] that are

[00:43:07] let's say

[00:43:07] that they love to speak from their heart

[00:43:09] and their heart centered

[00:43:10] and they want to share that

[00:43:12] you're one of them

[00:43:13] like I had Willow River Tonkin

[00:43:14] on the episode

[00:43:16] and he

[00:43:16] same kind of guy

[00:43:18] like just so driven

[00:43:19] from his heart to share

[00:43:20] and loves

[00:43:21] and the passion projects

[00:43:22] that he works on

[00:43:23] that kind of thing

[00:43:24] so people are naturally

[00:43:26] they're gonna follow you

[00:43:27] and yeah

[00:43:28] definitely

[00:43:29] yeah

[00:43:30] well

[00:43:31] but Pat has a lot of video games

[00:43:33] but

[00:43:34] yes

[00:43:35] but the idea of getting

[00:43:37] but you know

[00:43:38] the biggest concern

[00:43:39] and that's why Willow

[00:43:40] with his project

[00:43:41] serve for serve

[00:43:42] I love it

[00:43:43] because

[00:43:43] I see

[00:43:44] I mean we're

[00:43:45] we're very privileged

[00:43:47] that we can actually

[00:43:48] do that sport

[00:43:49] wing foiling

[00:43:50] it's not

[00:43:51] it's not

[00:43:51] it's not just a soccer

[00:43:52] and you go out there

[00:43:53] and you play with your friends

[00:43:55] but if we get the chance

[00:43:56] to get more people involved

[00:43:58] which might never

[00:43:59] has

[00:44:00] the opportunity to become

[00:44:02] a water

[00:44:03] and a water sports athlete

[00:44:04] that would be

[00:44:05] that's

[00:44:05] a big goal for me as well

[00:44:07] but yeah

[00:44:08] definitely we got to

[00:44:09] it's a

[00:44:10] a niche sport

[00:44:11] it will always be a niche sport

[00:44:13] but it's

[00:44:15] beautiful

[00:44:15] and I love to share the passion

[00:44:17] I love to share the stoke

[00:44:18] and

[00:44:19] I mean for me

[00:44:20] for water sports

[00:44:21] it's

[00:44:21] everything

[00:44:23] and so I

[00:44:26] Oh I was gonna say

[00:44:27] like with new materials coming out

[00:44:30] like are you

[00:44:31] like for 2024

[00:44:32] are you focusing

[00:44:33] like I know you still want to compete

[00:44:35] like you said

[00:44:35] but is a time

[00:44:37] that you spend

[00:44:38] devoted to R&D

[00:44:39] like what are you doing with ENZIS

[00:44:41] and SOB

[00:44:42] and your other partners

[00:44:44] yeah a lot is going on

[00:44:46] this season

[00:44:47] like just the last few weeks

[00:44:49] being very busy in R&D

[00:44:52] and there's

[00:44:52] like we're gonna launch it down with board

[00:44:55] for example

[00:44:56] which for me is like

[00:44:56] a really cool new board

[00:44:59] and I spend a lot of time

[00:45:01] on that board last season

[00:45:03] because it's

[00:45:05] it's a session

[00:45:06] a session safer

[00:45:07] you can have like

[00:45:09] ugly

[00:45:10] 12 knots

[00:45:11] on that board it's gonna be fun

[00:45:14] and you can have like knee-high waves

[00:45:15] and then on that board

[00:45:16] it's gonna be fun

[00:45:18] but not only that

[00:45:20] and definitely on the other hand

[00:45:21] I always try to make this board accessible

[00:45:23] for everyone

[00:45:25] with ENZIS

[00:45:25] we're doing a lot

[00:45:27] trying to produce gear

[00:45:29] that gets people into the sport

[00:45:31] the easiest way possible

[00:45:33] and especially the kids

[00:45:35] that's what I love by heart

[00:45:36] seeing young kids

[00:45:38] getting on the board

[00:45:39] flying after 50 meters

[00:45:41] with no water sports experience previously

[00:45:44] and that's definitely

[00:45:45] there's still a lot of work to do

[00:45:48] we should mind not only focus

[00:45:50] in this high end premium stuff

[00:45:52] but also

[00:45:53] make sure that we

[00:45:55] with ENZIS we also have this soft top

[00:45:57] soft top board

[00:45:58] so like a squeezy deck

[00:46:00] but it's a performance board

[00:46:01] so the other kid is jumping

[00:46:03] tricks around it with it

[00:46:05] and that's

[00:46:05] it doesn't hurt when you

[00:46:07] when you fall on the board

[00:46:08] so

[00:46:09] for sure at ENZIS

[00:46:10] we're always talking about the premium

[00:46:12] performance equipment

[00:46:13] but we also make sure that we have

[00:46:15] the equipment for everyone

[00:46:17] which is also kind of affordable

[00:46:19] but

[00:46:21] yeah, I mean

[00:46:22] as you mentioned

[00:46:23] I was

[00:46:24] development was always

[00:46:27] it was always

[00:46:29] kind of attracting me

[00:46:31] from the way I shaped my very first

[00:46:33] windsurf board already like 10 years ago

[00:46:35] so I was like

[00:46:36] getting into

[00:46:37] seriously into shaping as well on my own

[00:46:40] I was doing fins

[00:46:41] there was a time where my mother had like

[00:46:43] plastic cooking plates for

[00:46:45] cutting tomatoes and onions

[00:46:47] and I like just took them

[00:46:49] squeeze them out of the kitchen

[00:46:51] like sneak them out of the kitchen

[00:46:52] and like

[00:46:53] shaped things out of these plastic

[00:46:56] plastic plates

[00:46:57] and then I went out there

[00:46:58] and I like wrote 50 meters

[00:46:59] I broke off the plastic piece

[00:47:01] straight away

[00:47:03] yeah, my mother was so annoyed

[00:47:04] no, I love R&D and

[00:47:07] it's cool to see

[00:47:09] it's very cool to see where this is going

[00:47:12] at the moment

[00:47:12] it's crazy what's going on

[00:47:14] but it's also

[00:47:15] I mean

[00:47:16] it's amazing to be part

[00:47:18] from the very beginning of the sport

[00:47:20] just as wing foiling

[00:47:21] it's

[00:47:22] oh yeah

[00:47:23] for me it was always a dream

[00:47:24] I was always

[00:47:25] I always wanted to be a kind of pioneer

[00:47:28] in the sort of sport

[00:47:29] and I never thought that

[00:47:30] water sport would give me that chance

[00:47:32] and that opportunity

[00:47:34] so I'm

[00:47:35] haha

[00:47:35] whoo

[00:47:36] that well

[00:47:38] like there's a lot of Swiss Mountaineers

[00:47:40] but I think you're gonna go down in history

[00:47:41] as a Swiss Waterman

[00:47:43] which is pretty cool

[00:47:45] I'm not even sure if it's

[00:47:46] I'm not even sure if it's existing

[00:47:48] to be a

[00:47:50] to call yourself a Swiss Waterman

[00:47:52] but I try to

[00:47:53] I try to make this

[00:47:56] name

[00:47:57] yeah

[00:47:58] happening

[00:47:59] haha

[00:48:00] I think we can call that

[00:48:02] what do you think's the craziest thing

[00:48:04] happening in development

[00:48:05] if you could share

[00:48:06] but you don't have to if you can

[00:48:08] the craziest thing

[00:48:09] I'm

[00:48:10] let's say at the

[00:48:11] on the foilside

[00:48:12] we're still

[00:48:13] experiencing the problem that

[00:48:15] people

[00:48:16] for let's say that

[00:48:17] the possibilities are quite small

[00:48:19] because we're not

[00:48:20] we never gonna get

[00:48:21] the money involved

[00:48:22] like in the airplane industry or whatever

[00:48:25] but we also haven't really got the people involved

[00:48:28] which

[00:48:29] which are the big brains

[00:48:31] I mean most of the guys

[00:48:32] which really do good foils at the moment

[00:48:34] that nowadays foils are really good

[00:48:36] they're made by passion

[00:48:38] from people which write them

[00:48:40] and which feel them

[00:48:42] but I think with calculation

[00:48:43] and all this crazy stuff

[00:48:45] there's still gonna be

[00:48:46] and simulations on wings

[00:48:47] I mean we're working on wings

[00:48:49] we're simulating wings

[00:48:50] and when you look at the wing

[00:48:52] which you kind of think

[00:48:53] it should work

[00:48:54] and then you look at

[00:48:55] yeah I mean

[00:48:56] just lately we had this problem

[00:48:58] that the best looking wing

[00:48:59] so the wing which looks sexy

[00:49:01] and clean and nice

[00:49:03] was not performing well

[00:49:05] so definitely with these softwares

[00:49:07] we can save a lot of money doing

[00:49:11] stupid prototypes

[00:49:13] but these stupid prototypes

[00:49:14] they're needed to get this sensation

[00:49:17] of feel and whatever

[00:49:18] and I guess with

[00:49:20] with a wider range of people getting attracted

[00:49:23] into the sport

[00:49:24] we definitely gonna get these big brains

[00:49:26] which can calculate

[00:49:28] because me all I can do is just

[00:49:30] have fun, be out there and

[00:49:32] share the stoke

[00:49:33] but I'm not the guy who can sit behind the computer

[00:49:35] looking at numbers

[00:49:37] and then all friends

[00:49:39] which do it

[00:49:40] and which are good at it

[00:49:42] but they're not attracted by the watersport

[00:49:44] so if we find these synapses

[00:49:47] and connect the energies

[00:49:50] and the possibilities as well

[00:49:51] it's gonna be a game changer

[00:49:53] and at the fall side

[00:49:55] the other day in the podcast

[00:49:57] or in the US

[00:49:57] I said we are at around 30%

[00:49:59] which is nothing

[00:50:01] and I guess there's still a huge progress

[00:50:03] because still by now

[00:50:04] I get false prototypes

[00:50:06] I step on

[00:50:07] and I feel like 10% better

[00:50:09] not like just a little bit better

[00:50:11] but there's like huge gaps

[00:50:13] so there's still room to progress

[00:50:17] but do you think that's

[00:50:18] because people are bringing on

[00:50:19] like pro engineers now

[00:50:21] with like 20 years of like naval experience

[00:50:23] and stuff

[00:50:24] do you think that's helping

[00:50:25] properly as well

[00:50:26] and these guys they get into watersport

[00:50:29] they get into foiling as well

[00:50:31] and I think from

[00:50:33] just as we see now latest

[00:50:35] like the guys

[00:50:36] the guys from sailing

[00:50:38] from like all these crazy foil boats

[00:50:40] they get attracted by wing foiling as well

[00:50:43] and that goes hand in hand as well I guess

[00:50:46] so for sure

[00:50:49] but

[00:50:51] so much to talk about

[00:50:52] so much to talk about that super fun

[00:50:54] the thing about foils

[00:50:55] and I guess we're still

[00:50:57] we're still nowhere

[00:50:58] I mean foiling is existing for a long time

[00:51:00] but when you look at planes

[00:51:02] they're flying over 100 years

[00:51:04] foils been also almost existing

[00:51:06] over 100 years

[00:51:07] but the progression of foils

[00:51:09] is quite small or limited so far

[00:51:11] and I guess in surfing

[00:51:13] the surf industry

[00:51:14] all these very advanced shapers

[00:51:16] they have crazy boards

[00:51:19] and some people they even say

[00:51:20] each rider needs to have

[00:51:22] his individual board

[00:51:23] I agree

[00:51:24] but now in foiling it's even worse

[00:51:26] because each rider has to

[00:51:28] use his individual front wing

[00:51:29] with his individual

[00:51:31] setup and whatever

[00:51:32] so it's gonna be really technical

[00:51:34] to get like those

[00:51:36] just lately I'm experimenting with soft

[00:51:39] stabilizers

[00:51:40] and flex in a stabilizer can create

[00:51:42] like a windsurfing

[00:51:43] so much drive in your turns

[00:51:46] and

[00:51:47] if we get to the point

[00:51:48] that you're gonna have

[00:51:49] custom front wings

[00:51:50] custom

[00:51:51] stabilizers and

[00:51:53] I mean then

[00:51:54] then we're gonna be totally lost

[00:51:55] and so far I would say

[00:51:57] first I would say we still had

[00:51:59] at

[00:52:00] at the area that we don't even know

[00:52:02] what's going on with our gear

[00:52:04] and we don't even know

[00:52:05] what's changing

[00:52:07] in term of sensation towards

[00:52:09] we can build a fast foil

[00:52:11] but the fastest foil is not feeling nice

[00:52:13] at the moment

[00:52:15] so

[00:52:16] there's still a lot of work to do

[00:52:19] but we're progressing

[00:52:20] and the good thing is every year

[00:52:22] road up is getting so much better

[00:52:24] that

[00:52:25] don't know where it goes

[00:52:28] that must be pretty fun

[00:52:30] to work within the epicenter of that

[00:52:33] and pushing that

[00:52:34] is that one of your

[00:52:35] it's frustrating

[00:52:37] I'm actually really frustrated

[00:52:39] and I'm even frustrated

[00:52:41] in term of

[00:52:42] you know the good thing about it

[00:52:44] I can always go back

[00:52:45] to the very first foil

[00:52:46] where I started

[00:52:47] it will feel ugly

[00:52:49] but I still have like the stoke

[00:52:50] I still feel the stoke

[00:52:52] and it's a challenge for me

[00:52:53] riding that foil

[00:52:54] and I think

[00:52:55] and sometimes it's even good to

[00:52:58] just to

[00:53:00] to be more

[00:53:01] just to

[00:53:04] to also enjoy the equipment

[00:53:06] you're riding at the moment

[00:53:07] you know that you

[00:53:08] when you always look at better gear

[00:53:11] I'm also the kind of guy who is always saying

[00:53:13] it's not only the gear

[00:53:14] that makes the difference

[00:53:16] it's how the guy

[00:53:17] I was riding almost one season

[00:53:19] with the same foil

[00:53:20] and still by now when I use this foil

[00:53:23] I like it

[00:53:24] and I feel

[00:53:25] it's like a relation

[00:53:27] and the longer it lasts

[00:53:28] the better it gets

[00:53:29] and it like you

[00:53:31] you start connecting lines with the foil

[00:53:33] which my

[00:53:34] on a better foil

[00:53:35] better performing foil

[00:53:36] not gonna happen

[00:53:37] because you don't feel connected to the foil

[00:53:39] so it's much more than just having the best gear

[00:53:43] it's also you as a rider

[00:53:45] the way you look at your equipment

[00:53:47] and the way you treat it

[00:53:49] well it's having a relationship with it

[00:53:52] rather than

[00:53:54] just like

[00:53:56] I think there's always something better

[00:53:58] existing out there

[00:53:59] there's always something better out there

[00:54:02] yeah it is

[00:54:03] it's the same

[00:54:04] yes

[00:54:05] you know with my rock and roll

[00:54:07] we use that slogan

[00:54:08] promoting my rock and roll boards

[00:54:10] it was quite easy

[00:54:11] I broke

[00:54:13] I've been breaking so many boards previously

[00:54:15] and then I got that rock and roll

[00:54:17] and the mission was to make it

[00:54:19] last so I can travel with one board

[00:54:21] that's my dream

[00:54:22] and I've been traveling the whole season

[00:54:24] with the same board

[00:54:25] so it did work out

[00:54:27] and I guess it's gonna be the same with the foils

[00:54:29] I'm

[00:54:30] I'm the kind of guy

[00:54:31] I think my dream would be

[00:54:33] one front wing

[00:54:34] three stabilizers

[00:54:35] and then I could

[00:54:37] cover all the conditions

[00:54:39] that would be really nice

[00:54:40] because I'm

[00:54:40] I don't wanna travel with the truck to the spot

[00:54:43] I wanna go with my bicycle trailer

[00:54:45] and

[00:54:46] travel light and have fun

[00:54:48] and adapt to the wind

[00:54:50] yeah that's true

[00:54:51] I'm riding

[00:54:52] I'm riding one board

[00:54:53] I got one foil set up

[00:54:54] and that's all I use

[00:54:56] and it's been

[00:54:56] yeah that's the cool thing about ringing

[00:54:58] we should not kill it

[00:55:01] by over producing too much equipment

[00:55:03] but so

[00:55:04] to answer the question

[00:55:06] I mean

[00:55:07] it's nice being able to change things

[00:55:09] but at the same time

[00:55:10] it can be also very frustrating

[00:55:13] so

[00:55:13] I see what you're saying

[00:55:14] yeah

[00:55:15] and it's

[00:55:16] I mean it's

[00:55:17] it's

[00:55:18] for me

[00:55:19] it's crazy

[00:55:19] it's a crazy amount of work

[00:55:21] and in my opinion

[00:55:22] it needs

[00:55:23] not only the guy

[00:55:24] at the computer

[00:55:25] but it needs the guy

[00:55:26] who puts the hour into it

[00:55:28] and gets connected

[00:55:30] and everyone out there

[00:55:31] knows how hard it is

[00:55:32] to adapt from

[00:55:33] switching from one equipment

[00:55:34] to the other

[00:55:35] and feeling

[00:55:36] straight away comfortable

[00:55:38] that's not often happening

[00:55:39] and while testing

[00:55:40] most of the time

[00:55:41] you're not enjoying the session out there

[00:55:43] there's even days

[00:55:45] where I'm like

[00:55:45] I'm

[00:55:46] I'm frustrated going out there

[00:55:48] because I know

[00:55:49] I need to change

[00:55:50] equipment all over

[00:55:52] all the time

[00:55:53] and it's not only one screw

[00:55:54] you're like

[00:55:55] you're in the water

[00:55:56] sometimes in the cold

[00:55:57] all day long

[00:55:58] screwing

[00:55:58] screwing

[00:55:59] screwing

[00:56:00] until you screwed up

[00:56:01] and you don't even know what you

[00:56:02] but you've been trying anymore

[00:56:04] and that's the way

[00:56:05] how to actually progress

[00:56:06] equipment as well

[00:56:07] from the moment

[00:56:08] you don't know

[00:56:09] which equipment

[00:56:09] you're riding anymore

[00:56:10] because

[00:56:11] you've been swapping like

[00:56:12] all over

[00:56:13] all the time

[00:56:13] yeah

[00:56:14] that's

[00:56:15] Michael and me

[00:56:16] we often do it

[00:56:17] that we like

[00:56:18] keep swapping

[00:56:19] until we don't know

[00:56:20] anymore

[00:56:21] which for now riding

[00:56:22] and that's the best way to test

[00:56:24] because then you're like

[00:56:25] testing blind almost

[00:56:27] that's part of

[00:56:27] that

[00:56:29] that is fair

[00:56:30] hey does your

[00:56:30] does your wife

[00:56:32] rip as

[00:56:33] hard as you

[00:56:33] does she throw down

[00:56:34] like you

[00:56:36] she's not flipping overhead

[00:56:38] anymore

[00:56:38] that's where she stopped

[00:56:39] but she's so

[00:56:40] passionate about

[00:56:41] about what

[00:56:42] as well

[00:56:43] and

[00:56:43] that's a funny story

[00:56:44] just two

[00:56:45] two weeks ago

[00:56:46] in South France

[00:56:47] in our Christmas holidays

[00:56:49] she

[00:56:49] she tried to get

[00:56:50] in her

[00:56:50] with the suit

[00:56:51] and as she always

[00:56:52] like the belly is quite

[00:56:53] it's obviously there

[00:56:55] she

[00:56:55] she's travel

[00:56:56] getting in her

[00:56:56] winter suit

[00:56:57] and then she

[00:56:58] took her dinner

[00:56:59] for three suits

[00:57:00] which was way too cold

[00:57:01] and then she took

[00:57:03] put the five

[00:57:03] five four from me

[00:57:04] so she almost had

[00:57:05] like one

[00:57:06] yeah

[00:57:06] of wetsuit

[00:57:07] and she went out there

[00:57:08] and she was having

[00:57:09] a lot of fun

[00:57:10] and we were sailing

[00:57:11] like the three of us

[00:57:12] the baby

[00:57:13] in the belly

[00:57:13] her

[00:57:14] me

[00:57:15] while my

[00:57:16] mother was looking

[00:57:17] to Lotta

[00:57:17] the beach

[00:57:18] that was beautiful

[00:57:19] but we've

[00:57:20] we've done this

[00:57:20] then with Lotta

[00:57:21] Lotta

[00:57:22] Lotta was

[00:57:22] winging in the belly

[00:57:24] until like

[00:57:25] it was like six

[00:57:26] or four

[00:57:27] six

[00:57:28] six weeks before

[00:57:29] the

[00:57:30] giving birth

[00:57:30] so she was

[00:57:31] oh that's so cool

[00:57:32] boiling

[00:57:33] before

[00:57:34] in the belly

[00:57:36] uh-oh

[00:57:36] we're gonna see

[00:57:37] some future

[00:57:38] G.W.A. stars

[00:57:40] maybe

[00:57:41] maybe

[00:57:41] you and all this

[00:57:43] if there

[00:57:43] one

[00:57:44] we're gonna support it

[00:57:46] are there any

[00:57:47] lakes where you can do

[00:57:49] kind of remote

[00:57:49] backcountry camping

[00:57:51] and access that

[00:57:52] in Switzerland

[00:57:53] like

[00:57:53] because I know

[00:57:53] you're stoked to try out

[00:57:55] your lakes there

[00:57:56] like

[00:57:56] and we don't have to

[00:57:57] mention secret spots

[00:57:58] like that's fine

[00:57:59] because we have

[00:57:59] a couple of

[00:58:00] secret spots

[00:58:00] on the island

[00:58:01] that we don't mention

[00:58:01] but

[00:58:02] are there any

[00:58:04] is there any spots

[00:58:05] you can talk about

[00:58:06] well I know

[00:58:07] one fun place

[00:58:08] where I was hiking up

[00:58:09] it was

[00:58:10] beginning summer

[00:58:12] and we hiked

[00:58:12] like

[00:58:13] almost

[00:58:14] half thousand

[00:58:14] meter up

[00:58:15] and then we arrived

[00:58:16] at the lake

[00:58:17] and it was frozen

[00:58:18] haha

[00:58:20] didn't turn out

[00:58:21] that well that day

[00:58:22] no but we have a lot of

[00:58:24] we there

[00:58:24] there must be

[00:58:25] like

[00:58:25] almost

[00:58:26] thousand

[00:58:27] probably like

[00:58:27] 300

[00:58:28] foilable lakes

[00:58:29] in Switzerland

[00:58:30] 350

[00:58:30] foilable lakes

[00:58:32] and then there's

[00:58:33] like

[00:58:33] there's multiple

[00:58:34] small

[00:58:35] pools

[00:58:36] past zones

[00:58:36] and rivers

[00:58:37] we should not

[00:58:38] underestimate

[00:58:38] the rivers

[00:58:39] and

[00:58:43] well the cases

[00:58:44] we have a lot of water

[00:58:45] and if someone is

[00:58:46] keen to explore Switzerland

[00:58:48] has definitely

[00:58:50] gold locations

[00:58:51] and we do have

[00:58:52] plenty of wind

[00:58:53] what

[00:58:54] a lot of people

[00:58:55] underestimate

[00:58:56] the Swiss

[00:58:56] the Swiss

[00:58:58] water sports performance

[00:59:00] but we got places

[00:59:00] where you can surf

[00:59:01] almost every day

[00:59:02] in the summer

[00:59:03] but mostly

[00:59:04] I got to

[00:59:05] I got to agree

[00:59:06] that mostly

[00:59:07] when you

[00:59:08] tell a friend

[00:59:09] like go there

[00:59:09] and he's expecting

[00:59:10] something big

[00:59:11] he's gonna be

[00:59:12] frustrated

[00:59:12] because it's not gonna happen

[00:59:14] it's like

[00:59:15] with

[00:59:15] you know

[00:59:16] how it is

[00:59:16] these magic days

[00:59:17] that just

[00:59:18] don't line up

[00:59:19] maybe also

[00:59:20] the forecast

[00:59:21] not gonna work

[00:59:22] as well

[00:59:22] in the Alps

[00:59:23] because it's quite hard

[00:59:24] to

[00:59:25] forecast

[00:59:25] winds

[00:59:26] and wind systems here

[00:59:28] but definitely

[00:59:29] you're gonna have a great time

[00:59:30] and

[00:59:31] I love sharing sessions

[00:59:32] with anybody

[00:59:33] coming

[00:59:33] hopping over

[00:59:34] and just

[00:59:35] drop me a message

[00:59:36] and we get out there

[00:59:37] together

[00:59:38] oh nice

[00:59:38] that would be so fun

[00:59:39] for people

[00:59:40] and

[00:59:40] Switzerland

[00:59:41] is so beautiful

[00:59:42] you got

[00:59:42] a lot of good food

[00:59:44] we do

[00:59:45] have a lot of cheese

[00:59:47] cheese

[00:59:48] amazing chocolate

[00:59:50] cows with bells

[00:59:50] that's always pretty cool

[00:59:53] yeah

[00:59:53] that's true

[00:59:54] so

[00:59:55] what do you

[00:59:55] what's the biggest thing

[00:59:57] that you're looking forward to

[00:59:58] in 2024

[00:59:59] in any aspect

[01:00:00] of your life

[01:00:03] well

[01:00:03] we're expecting

[01:00:04] birth

[01:00:05] of the second child

[01:00:05] that's exciting

[01:00:07] that's

[01:00:07] very exciting

[01:00:08] no

[01:00:08] but

[01:00:09] I have

[01:00:10] I want to do

[01:00:11] like a triple

[01:00:11] air rotation

[01:00:12] windsurfing

[01:00:13] I've been really close

[01:00:14] and that's like

[01:00:15] kinda

[01:00:16] and then I want to

[01:00:17] like

[01:00:17] progress

[01:00:18] I want to do

[01:00:18] like

[01:00:19] double loops

[01:00:19] better

[01:00:20] so like

[01:00:20] double rotations

[01:00:21] in winging

[01:00:22] and then

[01:00:23] windsurfing

[01:00:25] and

[01:00:25] I'm

[01:00:25] sure

[01:00:26] like

[01:00:26] I'm

[01:00:27] I honestly

[01:00:27] I'm sad

[01:00:28] and I love to share this year

[01:00:29] also in this podcast

[01:00:31] wing foiling

[01:00:32] beautiful sport

[01:00:33] I love it

[01:00:33] but windsurfing

[01:00:35] got kind of like

[01:00:36] leftover

[01:00:37] by this huge

[01:00:38] wingfoil hype

[01:00:39] I'm curious

[01:00:40] by heart

[01:00:40] I still freaking

[01:00:41] love it

[01:00:42] and I like to talk

[01:00:43] with you

[01:00:43] seeing like

[01:00:44] this

[01:00:44] old starboard

[01:00:45] like

[01:00:46] beautiful starboard

[01:00:47] with wood in it

[01:00:48] I mean

[01:00:49] I

[01:00:49] I kinda mention

[01:00:51] that

[01:00:51] yeah

[01:00:52] I kinda mention

[01:00:52] that boards

[01:00:53] these days

[01:00:54] look ugly

[01:00:54] cause I mean

[01:00:55] these

[01:00:56] it was just

[01:00:56] beauty

[01:00:57] with

[01:00:57] with like

[01:00:58] the wood involves

[01:00:59] no

[01:00:59] windsurfing

[01:01:00] is still by heart

[01:01:01] and wind foiling

[01:01:02] especially

[01:01:03] wind foiling

[01:01:04] it

[01:01:04] it's

[01:01:05] it's a weird

[01:01:06] people looked at it

[01:01:07] definitely

[01:01:08] complicated

[01:01:08] but if you're a

[01:01:09] windsurfer

[01:01:10] and you have windsurfed

[01:01:11] all your life

[01:01:12] and you wanna experience foiling

[01:01:13] windsurf foiling

[01:01:14] is

[01:01:15] ain't that bad

[01:01:15] and the potential as well

[01:01:17] especially for going

[01:01:18] traveling

[01:01:18] and cruising around on the lake

[01:01:20] you're hooked in

[01:01:21] in your

[01:01:21] harness

[01:01:22] and it feels like

[01:01:22] windsurfing

[01:01:23] but you're floating

[01:01:24] flying over the air

[01:01:25] so like

[01:01:27] over

[01:01:27] overboarding

[01:01:28] over the air

[01:01:29] so

[01:01:30] I'm

[01:01:30] I'm always

[01:01:31] recommending

[01:01:31] anybody out there

[01:01:32] also to

[01:01:33] give

[01:01:33] windsurfoiling a go

[01:01:35] if you're

[01:01:36] if you're out there

[01:01:37] cause I still know

[01:01:38] a lot of windsurf friends

[01:01:39] which are like

[01:01:40] this and they don't wanna try

[01:01:41] yeah

[01:01:41] foiling a try

[01:01:42] and to give foiling a go

[01:01:44] don't really agree

[01:01:45] it's beautiful windsurfing

[01:01:46] but

[01:01:47] just

[01:01:47] um

[01:01:49] think twice

[01:01:49] if you wanna start foiling

[01:01:51] if you go straight into

[01:01:52] winging

[01:01:52] or give

[01:01:52] windsurfing

[01:01:53] still a go

[01:01:54] windsurfoiling

[01:01:56] well like I learned

[01:01:57] how to foil windsurfoiling

[01:01:59] and my buddy

[01:02:00] Bobson

[01:02:00] on the island

[01:02:01] uh

[01:02:01] Vancouver

[01:02:02] and

[01:02:02] he windsurfoils

[01:02:03] and he just rips

[01:02:04] and he tries to get

[01:02:05] 50

[01:02:05] 60 kilometers

[01:02:06] on our little lake

[01:02:07] and he just

[01:02:08] goes

[01:02:08] and goes

[01:02:09] and goes

[01:02:09] and I tried to race him

[01:02:10] this year

[01:02:11] there's no way

[01:02:11] I could catch him

[01:02:12] but I learned

[01:02:13] windsurfoiling

[01:02:14] and cause

[01:02:15] I

[01:02:15] windsurfing is still

[01:02:16] my love too

[01:02:17] and

[01:02:18] um

[01:02:18] and for that

[01:02:19] like

[01:02:19] it is

[01:02:20] it is a very good option

[01:02:21] and

[01:02:22] it doesn't matter

[01:02:23] which sport

[01:02:24] or even kite foiling

[01:02:25] for that matter

[01:02:25] like

[01:02:26] kite foiling

[01:02:26] has a blast on that

[01:02:28] yeah

[01:02:29] blast on that

[01:02:30] but the coolest thing

[01:02:30] is that

[01:02:31] how it

[01:02:31] combines

[01:02:32] all these disciplines now

[01:02:33] and that's how

[01:02:34] how it

[01:02:35] how it also brings

[01:02:36] people together

[01:02:37] people are getting

[01:02:37] together now

[01:02:38] yeah

[01:02:39] we would never

[01:02:39] hate each other

[01:02:40] so much

[01:02:42] and now

[01:02:43] in our surf club

[01:02:44] we still have those

[01:02:45] two, three

[01:02:45] radical guys

[01:02:46] like the

[01:02:46] Fitsurf

[01:02:47] OG guys

[01:02:48] yeah

[01:02:49] like

[01:02:49] now

[01:02:50] for them

[01:02:50] it's like

[01:02:51] a disaster

[01:02:52] cause we start

[01:02:52] talking to

[01:02:53] kite friends

[01:02:54] like which

[01:02:55] like

[01:02:55] and then

[01:02:55] the kite is

[01:02:56] coming to our

[01:02:57] place

[01:02:57] swinging

[01:02:58] and it

[01:02:58] used to be

[01:02:59] like they

[01:02:59] wanted to shoot

[01:03:00] guns at the

[01:03:01] kites

[01:03:01] like they

[01:03:01] wanted to

[01:03:02] shoot the kites

[01:03:03] in year

[01:03:04] and now

[01:03:04] the kites

[01:03:05] are popping

[01:03:05] their wings

[01:03:06] at the windsurf

[01:03:07] beach

[01:03:08] which is nice

[01:03:09] and they

[01:03:09] I mean in the end

[01:03:10] all we wanna do

[01:03:11] I don't

[01:03:12] I don't love

[01:03:13] to see the

[01:03:14] rivalry

[01:03:15] in water sports

[01:03:16] cause in the end

[01:03:16] we're all doing the same

[01:03:17] we're out there

[01:03:18] having fun

[01:03:18] in the nature

[01:03:19] and playing

[01:03:20] in the most

[01:03:21] beautiful playground

[01:03:22] you can

[01:03:22] dream of

[01:03:23] I mean even

[01:03:24] that's true

[01:03:25] even if it's

[01:03:26] glassy

[01:03:27] almost no wind

[01:03:28] these days

[01:03:28] you could go

[01:03:29] pump boiling

[01:03:29] and have a great time

[01:03:31] with a kite surfer

[01:03:32] you

[01:03:32] previously never

[01:03:33] thought

[01:03:34] meeting at the lake

[01:03:35] together

[01:03:36] so that's why

[01:03:37] foiling

[01:03:38] and I'm stoked

[01:03:40] I'm stoked

[01:03:40] not the rock

[01:03:41] which is going on

[01:03:43] I hadn't thought about

[01:03:44] the aspect of

[01:03:45] because

[01:03:46] like I took one kite lesson

[01:03:47] one time

[01:03:47] and my brother

[01:03:48] gave me his 12 meter

[01:03:49] and I drifted down

[01:03:51] cause it was

[01:03:51] light wind

[01:03:52] and I was in windsurf

[01:03:53] territory

[01:03:54] on my lake

[01:03:54] and they're like

[01:03:55] sorry bud

[01:03:55] we're not helping you

[01:03:56] I know like

[01:03:57] I'm one of you

[01:03:58] like I windsurf

[01:03:59] like I just

[01:04:00] happened to be

[01:04:00] trying this

[01:04:01] and like

[01:04:01] nope sorry bud

[01:04:02] you gotta figure

[01:04:03] your own crap out

[01:04:04] but with

[01:04:06] with this

[01:04:07] sport of foiling

[01:04:08] it is bridging

[01:04:09] a whole new generation

[01:04:10] of people

[01:04:10] who are like

[01:04:11] we all

[01:04:11] we do all the sports now

[01:04:13] and it's not just

[01:04:15] that

[01:04:16] and then it's

[01:04:16] that is true

[01:04:17] because I'm

[01:04:18] I'm seeing like

[01:04:19] so many more people

[01:04:21] like I would be the only

[01:04:22] windsurfer up in

[01:04:22] kite beach

[01:04:23] cause my brother

[01:04:24] kited

[01:04:24] so I'd launch him

[01:04:25] and I'd go windsurf

[01:04:26] behind side of him

[01:04:27] and he said

[01:04:27] when are you gonna

[01:04:27] switch to a real sport

[01:04:29] just as a joke

[01:04:29] obviously

[01:04:30] oh well

[01:04:30] well there's still a real sport these days

[01:04:35] I know

[01:04:35] but

[01:04:36] that is a very valid point

[01:04:37] I appreciate you

[01:04:37] bringing that up

[01:04:38] is there anything else

[01:04:40] you wanted to

[01:04:40] bring up to people

[01:04:42] or talk about

[01:04:42] cause I know we got some Q&A's

[01:04:44] and Q&A's

[01:04:45] we might do

[01:04:46] as

[01:04:46] we might do a

[01:04:47] separate little fun

[01:04:48] little thing

[01:04:49] where we kind of

[01:04:49] go on Instagram

[01:04:50] and check out Q&A's

[01:04:51] if you're down for that

[01:04:53] but is there anything

[01:04:54] yeah

[01:04:55] is there anything

[01:04:56] that you'd like to mention

[01:04:57] before you wrap this

[01:04:57] puppy up

[01:04:58] I've never been

[01:04:59] to the States

[01:05:00] and I guess

[01:05:01] I should probably

[01:05:02] come over

[01:05:02] and I've checked

[01:05:03] the forecast

[01:05:03] you guys

[01:05:04] like

[01:05:05] like

[01:05:05] around

[01:05:07] for example

[01:05:08] these been

[01:05:09] blasting the last days

[01:05:11] and I guess

[01:05:12] these legs are underestimated

[01:05:14] everyone dreams of

[01:05:15] the big Hawaiian rollers

[01:05:17] but I've seen a forecast

[01:05:18] 4.0 something

[01:05:19] meteor on

[01:05:20] Lake Erie

[01:05:21] and I was like

[01:05:21] what

[01:05:22] there's like

[01:05:22] even waves

[01:05:23] proper serious waves

[01:05:25] and I think

[01:05:26] I will be a serious

[01:05:27] struggle

[01:05:27] in these waves

[01:05:28] on that lake

[01:05:29] so

[01:05:30] I mean

[01:05:30] shut out to your guys

[01:05:31] if you

[01:05:32] if you were heading out there

[01:05:33] and enjoying

[01:05:34] probably

[01:05:35] shut out to Max

[01:05:37] yeah

[01:05:37] like

[01:05:38] Sandbanks Provincial Park

[01:05:39] it's on Lake Ontario

[01:05:41] I think last year

[01:05:42] or the year before

[01:05:43] my neighbor

[01:05:43] and our group of seven

[01:05:45] kind of

[01:05:45] OG guys

[01:05:47] I didn't go out

[01:05:47] because I didn't have a 3.3

[01:05:49] or a 2.9

[01:05:50] but he

[01:05:50] he went out

[01:05:51] that's not an average sail

[01:05:52] 3.3

[01:05:53] 3.3

[01:05:53] he went out

[01:05:54] in 45 knots

[01:05:56] it was upwards

[01:05:57] to 18 foot swell

[01:05:58] or whatever

[01:05:59] 20 foot stuff

[01:06:00] in the center

[01:06:01] and

[01:06:02] you couldn't even see

[01:06:03] anything

[01:06:03] and

[01:06:04] and yeah

[01:06:04] and

[01:06:05] it was a slight

[01:06:05] offshore breeze

[01:06:07] so there was a big

[01:06:07] rip current

[01:06:09] and those guys just

[01:06:10] ripped in that stuff

[01:06:11] like the biggest I've gone

[01:06:12] is 10

[01:06:13] 12 feet

[01:06:14] and 40 knots

[01:06:14] and that was like

[01:06:15] that's big enough for me

[01:06:16] but like

[01:06:17] at 200 pounds

[01:06:19] so

[01:06:19] I don't know

[01:06:20] it's pretty cool

[01:06:20] for that

[01:06:21] yeah the lakes are cool

[01:06:22] that's

[01:06:22] well

[01:06:23] yeah that's when you get

[01:06:24] so small

[01:06:24] and you realize

[01:06:25] that it's just like

[01:06:26] no chance

[01:06:27] that you're fighting

[01:06:28] against these elements

[01:06:29] you just got to play

[01:06:30] with them

[01:06:30] and go with the flow

[01:06:32] and that's what

[01:06:32] I love so much about

[01:06:34] I mean for me

[01:06:35] these are the

[01:06:36] the days I live for

[01:06:37] like these big days

[01:06:38] 3-3

[01:06:39] that's my favorite

[01:06:39] windsurf sale

[01:06:40] and that's also

[01:06:41] when windsurfing

[01:06:42] is pure fun

[01:06:43] that's when it's

[01:06:44] funboarding

[01:06:44] because

[01:06:45] we also meant to

[01:06:46] be able to talk about

[01:06:47] funboarding

[01:06:47] what is funboarding

[01:06:49] I mean you can be

[01:06:50] funboarding

[01:06:50] doing

[01:06:51] me

[01:06:52] I love kiting

[01:06:52] I'm

[01:06:53] really addicted

[01:06:54] by strapless

[01:06:55] kiteboarding

[01:06:56] and like

[01:06:56] for me

[01:06:57] it's like skateboarding

[01:06:58] doing all these

[01:06:59] and

[01:07:00] I don't have these

[01:07:01] secret magnets

[01:07:02] like these guys do

[01:07:04] because I always

[01:07:05] when I jump up

[01:07:05] in the air

[01:07:06] my board just flips around

[01:07:07] that goes

[01:07:08] in any direction

[01:07:09] but it's

[01:07:10] such a good challenge

[01:07:11] and I would say

[01:07:12] if you have the chance

[01:07:14] to go

[01:07:15] like you

[01:07:15] you could grab

[01:07:16] your brother's kite

[01:07:17] just do it

[01:07:18] so take your wingfoil board

[01:07:19] and go with the kite

[01:07:20] at the wingfoil board

[01:07:22] and just try

[01:07:22] wingfoil board kiting

[01:07:25] and it's

[01:07:25] true

[01:07:26] any

[01:07:26] any board sports

[01:07:27] you do

[01:07:28] kind of

[01:07:28] relays to the other one

[01:07:31] and it just makes you

[01:07:32] a better

[01:07:32] athlete out there

[01:07:33] a better waterman

[01:07:35] and

[01:07:36] yes

[01:07:36] so maybe

[01:07:37] especially kite falling

[01:07:39] me

[01:07:39] I've

[01:07:40] I love kite falling

[01:07:41] with my wingfoil board

[01:07:42] because it's so easy

[01:07:43] and simple

[01:07:44] and when it's really

[01:07:45] light

[01:07:46] I can sit on the board

[01:07:47] and I get going

[01:07:48] when the

[01:07:48] when my friends

[01:07:49] on the kite for

[01:07:50] that

[01:07:50] can't even

[01:07:51] get out of the water

[01:07:52] because they're

[01:07:53] really tiny boards

[01:07:54] so it doesn't really

[01:07:56] it doesn't really

[01:07:57] matter just

[01:07:58] be creative

[01:07:59] get out there

[01:07:59] and have fun

[01:08:00] and go funboarding

[01:08:03] whatever

[01:08:03] funboarding means for you

[01:08:06] that sounds pretty good

[01:08:07] folks

[01:08:08] spoken from the man

[01:08:09] himself

[01:08:10] and

[01:08:11] yeah

[01:08:12] that's pretty cool

[01:08:12] hey thanks balls

[01:08:13] like I really appreciate

[01:08:14] you make taking the time

[01:08:15] today

[01:08:16] to join us

[01:08:17] and

[01:08:19] yeah everybody

[01:08:20] looking forward to ride

[01:08:21] with you guys out there

[01:08:22] and have fun

[01:08:23] anytime

[01:08:23] you want to come out

[01:08:24] to Canada

[01:08:25] like we got a lot

[01:08:26] of cool spots

[01:08:27] so we could definitely

[01:08:28] hook you up

[01:08:28] the present

[01:08:29] nice

[01:08:30] all right everybody

[01:08:30] we'll see you next time