Episode #64 - Remi Finiel / Forward WIP

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey everyone, welcome back to the show.

[00:00:02] [SPEAKER_01]: This week we have Remi Finiel joining us from Forward WIP.

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Together we deep dive into the world of protecting ourselves on the water.

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_01]: We introduce his company, Popular Products and delve into product creation, design and

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_01]: more.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Keep an eye on our Instagram as we will soon be launching a Forward WIP giveaway with

[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_01]: some amazing products that will be up for grabs.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So we really do hope you enjoy this episode.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I learned a ton.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_01]: As you might know, we just wrapped up our first season of the Wing Life Show.

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_01]: We really do hope you enjoyed it.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It's now time to send us your comments and suggestions for Season 2.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So Season 1, we introduced you to wing foiling and we brought you all the way up to the

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_01]: job.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So now, what would you like to hear on Season 2?

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: We're looking forward to your comments.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to take this opportunity to thank our team for making this show a reality.

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_01]: We have Frank that's helping us with consulting.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_01]: We have Mathias on guest relations and we have Stefan on editing.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: A big thank you guys because a lot of work goes into each and every episode.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Next, I'd like to say a big thank you to North Foils.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_01]: They are our first official sponsor.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_01]: They have a great team.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm finally riding their gear and so far it's really good.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So looking forward to riding more of that gear in La Ventana, Mexico.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So I just wanted to say I'm stoked to be working with you guys.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks a lot for supporting us.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Lastly, winter is coming and if you haven't decided where to go yet, I would suggest hopping

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: over to our website winglifepodcast.com and clicking on trips in the main navigation

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: menu to see what we have in store for 2025.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I hope you enjoy the show.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Wing Life Podcast where we talk about wing foiling and the lifestyles

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_01]: of those who enjoy this great sport.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Rémy, thanks for joining me today and taking the time.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, really my pleasure.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Really, really cool to be with you today on your podcast.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I did listen to a few of them and really it's exciting to share life and experience with you.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thanks.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the super fun thing about having longer format conversations is we

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_01]: can talk about topics but also because the wind world is growing and there's so

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: much new stuff, especially in the protection world that's coming out with all of our new sports.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm really looking forward to kind of deep diving into that with you and

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah, seeing where the conversation goes.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. Cool.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, how did this even get started?

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess when I was born.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I mean, I am in my 50s.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So I was born in Southern France.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually half French and half Swiss.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_00]: My father is French and my mother is Swiss.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And actually, my family has been always driven by sailing and winter sports.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the two main activities we were doing in the family.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_00]: My family is really my father is an early adopter for both worlds.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: He was a mountaineering at the end of the 40s, so really early.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was sailing in the 50s.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So so really been always on the snow or on the water, passionate and myself.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So I enjoyed being on water very early as we had this monthly summer holiday on

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_00]: our sailing boat across the Mediterranean Sea.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So that was always great memories and great experience.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So I loved being on water and I started sailing optimist when I was six years old.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the optimist is this little kind of squarish boat, dinghy boat that

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: everyone is starting on in Europe and I guess around the world.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So I started racing on optimists from eight to 12 and really enjoyed that.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So my father in 77 came back home with this strange surfboard with a sail on.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a windsurfer and it's funny because the board was yellow at that time.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was a polyethylene board and he was really new.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: He was completely new.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And as I was quite tall at that time, I mean, I was 10 years old.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I managed to try it and to host the mast really hardly and reach this wooden wishbone

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and really had many crash and many falls, but had a hard time enjoying this windsurfer.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So much that when I was 13 and a bit too tall for optimist sailing, I switched to

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_00]: windsurfing and I was doing a bit of skateboarding.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I was doing a bit of snowboarding as well.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: At that time it was quite popular in the 80s, popular in Europe as well as

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: US actually. And so naturally I went to windsurfing, started to race on

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: a class called open. It's an open class.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a very fat board that was a long board, very round, looks like a Beluga.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And you were going upwind doing kind of Olympic between three boys racing.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, that was fun.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, hard to stay on the board when you are going downwind.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_00]: No jibes, no it was only racing, but it was pretty cool.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that brought me to my 80s where I had to focus a bit more on my studies.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_00]: You have students.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to ask.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_00]: What did you take at school?

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, in my family, you have to know we are engineers from father to son

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: since fourth generation.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So I had some pressure, you know, I had some pressure to keep the path.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I did an engineering school.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And I really enjoyed it.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_00]: It's really my passion, mechanical engineering school.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And during the studies, I had the chance to meet a very cool teacher

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: who got me into innovation process and patent feeding.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So he said, OK, it's good to learn, but it's also good to open your mind

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and try to bring some innovation.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And at that time, snowboarding at the end of the 80s was starting to be

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_00]: really a big success.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_00]: If you remember and you may not remember that, but the 80s was the big boom

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: of windsurfing like in Europe.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody was having a windsurf and was enjoying windsurfing,

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: not funboarding, but really windsurfing, you know, with these big boats.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And at the end of the 80s, what happened is the fun board

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: really went to the roof and the guys in our eyes were doing huge jumps and so on.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So I guess the normal windsurfer was a bit lost

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and lost a bit of interest into the basic windsurfing.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And at that time, it was the right time where many companies

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: switched from windsurfing to snowboarding because that was the next cool sport

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: to begin after skiing.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody jumped into snowboarding.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And at that time, the technology was very basic, the way you were fixed on the snowboard.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was quite easy to bring some innovation.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So that was my way in this engineering school.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I said, OK, I'm going to try to innovate the way you fix your boots on a board.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And I had the chance to apply for two different patents at that time

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: for a board, yes, for very interesting.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And and maybe maybe because I have a little skill also in marketing and sales,

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: but I managed to sell these patents.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: The first one I sold to a windsurfing company.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it will be interesting.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a company called Seabright.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a company.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It's the company actually that invents the connection of the boom on the mast.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So in the past, I mean, before the 80s,

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_00]: the boom was fixed on the mast by a rope and the boom was moving like that and was like awesome.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And those guys, Francois, had the idea to fix the boom on the mast with a cable

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and with a latch, the same kind of latch that you have on a ski boot.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So suddenly, the connection between a boom and a mast became super strong,

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_00]: super stiff, fantastic to ride, you know, because you could hold on the boom

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and really accelerate.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a really a time deal breaker.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's been quite successful on that.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, he didn't patent his cable, but didn't thought about the rope.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So actually people came with a rope instead of a cable.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And the rope actually was better because it was a little bit forgiving

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_00]: where the cable was so stiff that sometimes when you were jumping,

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: the cable was breaking where with a rope, it's a bit more forgiving.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And so he has been very successful, but unfortunately,

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_00]: could not protect his idea enough and copied a lot.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is right now still a system that is used across windsurfing.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure you're using this system still every day.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, using it now.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So innovation is one thing, but then learning about the process

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_01]: of patenting your ideas, obviously, is just as important as the innovation itself.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess, right? Yeah, that's right.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, when you when you have a when you have a patent, basically

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: you have an idea.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So to go into a process of innovation, you need to be curious.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_00]: You need to be open minded.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: You need to look at the problem, understand the problem,

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: talk with the people.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And then after you can be a genius and then being this is the

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_00]: the perfect idea that is jumping into your head

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and you have the innovation and you will patent it.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's one way.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But the most common way is you try to see first

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_00]: if there's been made already, I mean, is there a solution for the problem?

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And if there is no solution, what you do is you look at the different

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_00]: sports, you look at different environment around you

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and you try to find the solution elsewhere.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And most of the time, when you know the problem,

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_00]: when you know a bit of technology and you see what's going on elsewhere,

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: you find you are connecting the dots and you find the right solution

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_00]: to solve your problem.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And most of the time, this is quite innovative.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_00]: The way you are picking ideas, you know, like him himself.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_00]: He had the idea of of the latch of a ski boot

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_00]: to adapt on the on the on the boom

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_00]: to connect to the to the to the mass.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So so this is how you get innovation.

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So and to protect your innovation, you need to file a patent.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And what is interesting is the cost of patent is quite cheap

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: for the first two years.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, you have a window of one or two years

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_00]: where you're going to you're going to write your patent.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And what you need to be very careful is to write the claims.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_00]: The claims is at the end of the patent.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_00]: This is really what you are patenting, you know, what is really innovation.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And here you need to have some advice from a patent attorney

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's quite important to write them well.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_00]: The rest of the patent, you can write yourself

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: because it just takes explaining what you want to do.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And when those ones are done and you have applied for a patent,

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_00]: what you need to do is you need to find someone

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: to buy the patent as quickly as possible, because it becomes very costly

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_00]: after one or two years at the start.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same cost for everyone.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_00]: You are you are Coca Cola.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You are Boeing or you are Remy.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It will cost you the same money to apply for a patent.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But then after to maintain a patent, this is cost.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what I have done.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is an advice that I could share with your auditors.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_00]: If if once you have an idea and you have the chance to patent your idea,

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_00]: you need to be very quick into the industrialization

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and to find someone to support you if you don't have too much money,

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: because it will suddenly cost so much that you will not able

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_00]: to maintain your patents.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're going to narrow your patent to maybe one country

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're going to lose all the opportunity.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I've done.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And it worked well.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: You see? So so so so that's the way to go.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So I sold this patent to to to François, to this company,

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: a Sieg Wright.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And that was the first binding, snowball binding.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I had the second patent that I sold to Nidecker.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a Swiss brand.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a little bit like the Burton of Europe.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: It was have you heard about Nidecker?

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's a snowball brand.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's quite well known worldwide.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's it's a Swiss company.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_00]: At that time, it was number one in Europe.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And that made me come to that baby,

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: quit France to start to work in Switzerland

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: because I had this Swiss passport.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just landed in this beautiful village

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_00]: where I am talking to you right now.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It's all it's by the Lake of Geneva.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the biggest lake in in Europe.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_00]: We are facing the Mont Blanc and the chain of the Alps.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a great place to stay.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Very beautiful.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, very, very cool place.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So so great, great experiences to as a start of my career.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, switching from from this engineering school

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_00]: to my first job in Nidecker,

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_00]: designing product, designing snowball bindings,

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_00]: boots and other accessories.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Very, very interesting.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And basically, I've been pretty cool.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic, fantastic, fantastic time.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_00]: On this know, you know, when you work in your passion,

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: you don't feel like you're working.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's it's really fantastic.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And I've been lucky since the start of my career.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I always been enjoying working as I was not working.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I was just being in my passion.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You're playing.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_01]: You're playing with stuff.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_01]: How did the idea of Forward Whip come to be?

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that came a bit later on.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So after Nidecker, I switched to Salomon.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I've done a bit of marketing.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted I mean, I did a lot of research and development.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said now I need to understand a bit more the marketing,

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_00]: because if you can have kind of the better competency,

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: it's very interesting because you know how to design

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and marketing is about understanding the need.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you can design what people needs, then it's really, really good.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So I've been to this company, Salomon.

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_00]: You may know it from the winter sports

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: that is now very big in foodware and so on.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a great school.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was a kind of life school in Salomon.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was the marketing, the standard marketing manager.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And I really learned as I was working

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: more about marketing and how you develop a range.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I was flying around the world,

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: having focus group with writers, with users,

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_00]: asking what they need, if they like what we are doing about the

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: cosmetic, about the functionality and so on.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So I've been fantastic, great, great time in Salomon

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_00]: learning about about the markets in Japan, in US and Europe.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic time.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And then in 2005,

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I decided to start my own company.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I was I knew how to develop, I knew how to market.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So I said, let's start something.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And I have designed I have started a design studio where my with a friend.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And the idea was to develop sport products

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_00]: from really A to Z.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So really from design

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_00]: concept cars to industrialization,

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_00]: making tooling and then following the product and the project

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_00]: till finding the factory, working with the best factory out there

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and going to the end.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is this is my design studio where I'm doing still I'm doing

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing that.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And in 2013, I've been contacted by

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Oracle, the America's Cup team.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_00]: At that time, the America's Cup was in San Francisco, if you remember.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And through connection, they approached me and said,

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Remy, we need protection because what happened at that time

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: is the sailing went into a new era.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a kind of revolution.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_00]: The boats start to fly.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So so so that is a complete breakthrough.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And and the first time they were they were trying their

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: their boat, they actually did the type sized

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and they were in T-shirt with normal your gear, setting gear that they used to have.

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the cat side very badly broke the boat in pieces.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And some guys had a hard time to go away.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody was safe, but really a very risky situation.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So as they were rebuilding the boats, they did contact me and said,

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, we need to have some protection on board because

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a different sport.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_00]: We are entering a completely different game.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: We are sailing at 40 knots over the water.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So like 80 kilometer, we are in danger.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So we need to protect ourselves.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So so at that time, I made some helmets for them.

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I made some impact vest for them.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And actually, we are still still having that in the in the ranch.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like this this impact vest is

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: we with all these sweeps was the exactly

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_00]: the one used by by Oracle team during the America's Cup.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So so it's still is still in our range today.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So so doing that, I realized that there were an opportunity.

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_00]: There are no procedure because, you know, when you want to

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_00]: to make a new brand in equipment, like for example, for instance,

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_00]: in water sports, it's very hard because you have a very good brand out there.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you have Mystique, you have Ion, you have Neil Pride.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You have so many guys doing already a good job.

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You have all the surfing brand for a neoprene.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So so, I mean, unless you have a lot of money,

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_00]: unless you you have an incredible idea, I mean, it would be very,

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: very hard to kick off a new brand competing with the same game as the others.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_00]: But as you see, but as

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_00]: the market was opening to a new era, when there is a revolution in the market,

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_00]: when there's a technical revolution, it opens up a new opportunity.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And I've seen this opportunity.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I said it's going to be a revolution, not on in sailing.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be in both sports.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be on anything on water.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_00]: The foiling is going to bring people

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_00]: going so fast on water that they will need protection.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why I did create in 2015

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: this company called Forward Whip for water impact protection.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, this is how it stands for.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So so what impact protection?

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: We are the specialists of of protecting people.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So so basically we are a little bit.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say our mission is to be the protecting angel

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: to allow you, anyone, to go fast on water in a safe way,

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_00]: in a safe mind way, you know.

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So because we realize that when you feel safe,

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_00]: when you are comfortable with what you are wearing and you feeling confident,

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: then you will not stress.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Stress is bringing mistakes, is maybe forcing the fault.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's forcing the fall.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But when you feel a bit more confident, then you can

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: this fraction where you are between falling and not falling.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You will keep running and you will keep pushing

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and progressing in your sport because you feel good, you feel safe.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, it's not 100 percent guarantee,

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_00]: but at least you feel safe to hurt yourself less.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And we try to design the equipment.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_00]: What I like to say is

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: is somewhere God made us to run at 20 kilometer,

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, to walk, run at swim.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But actually, we are not doing that.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_00]: We are doing much more than that because we have some crazy, crazy ideas.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And and and actually with all the sports we are doing,

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: like for instance, on water sports, we are like just sailing,

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: riding at more than 30 knots, more than 15, 60 kilometer on the water.

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_00]: That was not the plan.

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And and for this.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a very good point.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01]: That was not.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: No, we did not think that would happen.

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So so that's why you need to have a little bit of extra protection

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_00]: where you were designed for.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And and this is our mission.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So so basically we are creating the exoskeleton,

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_00]: the the extra protection that you need to cope with what you are doing,

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_00]: because you are not just running at 20 kilometer, doing your jogging or whatever.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You are doing something serious.

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You are going on the water that is hard as concrete

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_00]: with maybe a wing, a knife below your feet that may come back to you.

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So so that's that's our mission.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_00]: This is what we are doing since 10 years now, almost 10 years.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And we have we have great fun doing it.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's really, really cool.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's exciting.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: What what is forward?

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's the forward part in your name?

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. Good question.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, before that, I was I was doing another project

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_00]: that was called Forward Sailing.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So forward is is about because I'm I'm a windsurfer, like I explained.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And so the forward loop was always, you know, the estimate kind of

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_00]: estimate figure it was that you want to do.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So yes.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So and it's also forward thinking and going forward is better.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And so so I had a project called Forward Sailing

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_00]: where I was designing a fathead cells for sports catamaran.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So so the goal of the goal is still existing.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, we are quite successful with it.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So you can check on the on the web for our sailing.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So so we are creating sales to give a second life to all catamaran,

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, all these hobby cat darts and all these sports catamaran

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: that you are using during your holidays and just trying to have

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_00]: good feeling on a boat going fast on water.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And all those catamaran were designed with round,

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, cells, the leash is round when the new cells are square.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You have a square top and this allow you to catch more wind,

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_00]: especially when you go downwind.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_00]: You want to have the sail completely full and catch the wing.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And when you are up like a windsurf cell, the sail will twist

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and then you will have less power.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's good because you are going against the wind.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's better.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So I did develop this forward sailing brand.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And and that's good because it's quite sustainable in the way that you

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: you don't you don't just throw away your old hobby cat.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You have a chance to to bring new cells, new little bit like,

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, for your car, you have you have new rims that are beautiful

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and your car so that your old car looks better.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And also is is steering better on the road.

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_00]: The same with the cells on the catamaran.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So that was for sailing.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I made forward with water and protection.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And that was 2015 and after the start was not easy because,

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, foiling at that time was just a niche, micro niche.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we could give product to we could sell product.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe three hundred people around the world could manage to to to use our product

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: because not so many people were throwing.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It was really the start of foiling and and the big, big step was wing,

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: wing surfing. So so and this is this is all about your your podcast.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this wing sports is a revolution.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: It's the first sport that is bringing foiling to the mass.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Before it was only a niche of the people being able to do most sailing.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_00]: This big America's catamaran, even kite foiling was

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_00]: kite foiling was starting.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But again, who can who can kite for?

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not so easy.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But suddenly,

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_00]: wing foiling, it's been this new new sport.

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic. I mean, I thank the guys that really

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_00]: designed this sport.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the first time I experienced wing foiling, I was like yelling and saying,

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: what a good sport. What?

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a revolution.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was so happy and was doing COVID.

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And we've been lucky in Switzerland.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_00]: We could still enjoy the lake.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And and that was the best time of my life.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, really enjoying wings.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: That's where you.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Was that your first time on a foil?

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, I did.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I did a bit of windsurf foiling

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: because because, yes, it was it was a little bit the evolution.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And I did a lot of catamaran foiling.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So sailing on foils with catamaran.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But but in 2020,

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I had the chance to get a wing and foil and and being on the water.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And and fantastic, fantastic time.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic because it was working immediately.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Immediately I picked it up and I said, wow, that's a cool sport.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Really, really good sport.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was doing a lot of snowboarding, doing doing somehow.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_00]: We are doing foiling behind the boat, you know, trying to do wake

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_00]: foiling behind the boat.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So so I could manage to be on the board quite, quite well.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But it was just fantastic to to to do this association

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_00]: between a foil aboard and this wing.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Mind blowing.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So then obviously your brain's starting to turn and starting to think.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And how did you guys come up with your first concepts for protection

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01]: in wing foiling, because like in biking and skiing and everything else,

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: it's pretty much customized now to it.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody wears a helmet.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody has certain specific safety gear

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: that they wear, and it's been adopted by the mainstream.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Kiting very rarely do we see people wear helmets.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Even though they should, because their impacts when the impact

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_01]: happens is pretty severe.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Wind surfing, not a ton.

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And and now wing foiling on the tour, it's mandatory.

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Because you have foils, you got all this stuff like.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, very very.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So what was your first?

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thoughts about all that stuff.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, very interesting.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right.

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so what happens is

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and this is what this is why I started this.

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_00]: This brand is, you know, normally when you get into a sport,

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_00]: you are a beginner and if the sport is a little bit dangerous,

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_00]: then you start to wear protection, not to hurt yourself.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_00]: This is normal. OK.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And when you start to manage the sport good,

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_00]: then you start to remove your protection because it's less dangerous

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_00]: or it's not dangerous anymore.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you don't have any protection.

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is a normal path for a sport.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why people wear helmets at the beginning and not later on.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why protection sometimes are linked to something

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_00]: that is not so cool.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_00]: But when you are starting to go one step further in a sport

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_00]: where you push the limit of the sports

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's exactly what happened in bicycle and in skiing,

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_00]: when the guys started to go downhill

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_00]: mountain biking at 80, 100 kilometer

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_00]: or 60 miles, and they had to have protection

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_00]: because they were not just doing a little bit of a

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_00]: tour, you know, with daddy and mummy around the house.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It was like serious downhill.

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Same as road cycling.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, when the guys started to race

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and they were like a peloton and it was like 80 guys

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_00]: very close to each other, pushing the limit of the of cycling

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_00]: close to each other, they had to have protection.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So and what happens is when the pro start to wear protection

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_00]: because they fear about their life

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and they want to protect themselves.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a game changer.

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Because when the pro adopting that, all the brands are working

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00]: to make the pro happy.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So they are designing not things for beginners where we don't care.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you have a big helmet and I take this mushroom.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be OK. No, no.

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_00]: The pro has to fit well.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It has to be light.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is when we are investing money and R&D

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_00]: to create a great product, a great protective product.

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_00]: This is what happened in winter sport and cycling.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_00]: When the pro embrace protection,

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: this is going to the mass because the mass says you have the

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, you have the betters.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you have the best using protection, then the better said,

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I need protection because you would be stupid saying,

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't need protection.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, everybody wants to protect himself.

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And if it looks cool and if the product is great,

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_00]: then you will like it.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is exactly what happened with those two sports.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So so then the better started to buy protection.

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you are 40 percent of the market having protection.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Then the other 60 say, well, we are stupid.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: We are looking stupid. Now we need to have protection as well.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the whole market gets protection.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is the the path.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't watch that in in these two sport and other sport as well.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_00]: As soon as the pro are in protection for good reasons

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and you have great product for them,

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_00]: then the rest of the market will follow.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And and they want to have the same.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And who don't want to have protection, especially if it's good.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_00]: It protects from the sun.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's just normal, you know.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what happened with what the sports and that will happen.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why it's growing now very fast.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It's because from this this America's

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_00]: America's Cup time where the guys saying I need protection.

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And because we did design great helmets, great looking

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_00]: helmet, red colors, light and tight fit,

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_00]: next it's and also great in bag vest.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Then the better guys embrace that and say I need that.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And step by step, it really come to the whole markets.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is what's happening right now in wing surfing.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_00]: It's mandatory for racing.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And you understand why I mean, those guys are racing so close

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_00]: each other, it's really dangerous.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And and then for everyone, if you can provide

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_00]: something that is good looking, light and good fitting

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_00]: they need protection, protection for the sun and protection for

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_00]: not to bump the board and so on.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_00]: This is why people are buying more and more protection.

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And you need to have the good protection.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not easy to make a good protection.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is how protection is spreading into a sport.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is exactly what is happening right now.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. Oh, fascinating.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_01]: OK, so as soon as the cool factor and the danger factor

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_01]: sits in with the professionals, then you can have more and more people

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_01]: who will then start to adopt and follow that trend.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So talking helmets,

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_01]: obviously shell, there's the interior of the helmet.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_01]: What goes into making a good helmet?

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a that's a good question.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So so basically, you've got

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_00]: a it actually depends on the speed

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and the energy that you're going to have during the shock.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So so you've got people that are going to foil and wind foil

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_00]: at below 20, around 20 knots, you know, 10, 20, 22 knots.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So I would say the same as when you were you are windsurfing,

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_00]: when you are doing all those activities, this is more or less the range

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_00]: that you are sailing, right, riding for.

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_00]: In that case, you need just a water sport helmet.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_00]: The water sport helmet is a is a is a helmet like that

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_00]: where you have a soft foam inside.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a it's a foam that can damp that can bounce back.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, it has memory foam and it's like a little bit

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_00]: like a bumper of a car.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're going to shock going to come back

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and then you can shock it many times.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what is called a kayak helmet.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It's coming from the white water.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And with this helmet, you have a great protection

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_00]: when you are around 20 knots enjoying your your your riding.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, so what are sports?

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, then if you push a bit more like this IQ for guys,

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, this is look doing IQ foil.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: This is also the guys doing a kite for they are more like in the 30

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of speed range.

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It's much faster.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, 30 knots.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: It's more than 50 kilometer, 55.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It's start to be really hard.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So they are racing, crossing each other as they are going up

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_00]: between that start to be very serious.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_00]: In that case, you need a bit more protection.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So we have developed this kind of helmet.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So this element is made not with

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_00]: EPP or EVA foam.

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_00]: It's made with EPS foam.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So inside, you have the same kind of form that you can find in a bicycle.

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's so it's a form that is crashing.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Very good. But only one time.

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you have a big crush, it will protect yourself.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It will break. It has to break.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It's very important.

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It breaks because when it breaks, it will dissipate the energy

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and this will protect your your brain.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So so that's the helmet you want to have.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is basically this helmet.

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_00]: The Pro-Whip is what most riders are using for IQ foil

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_00]: or kite foiling or NACRA.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you have this NACRA foiling for the Olympics.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the kind of helmet you are using.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It's super light, it's like feet and very high protection.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Three times more than this one.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So when this one protects kind of a fall,

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_00]: like if your head would fall from 50 centimeter,

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_00]: this one protects your head if your head would fall for 1.5 meter.

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So three times more.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow. Three times more protection with this helmet.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the pinnacle of protection is this helmet.

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what they are using in the America's Cup.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's the ultimate protection like what the skiers like in winter sport.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_00]: This is what they're asking.

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not only shock absorption, but it's also penetration.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So you may have, you know, a foil, you may have like a stick

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_00]: may get get into your helmet.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_00]: This is why the holes are much smaller.

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And also the shape is much rounder because you go so fast.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You go at 40 knots.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So this helmet is made to go 30, 40 knots.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And in that case, when you are turning your head

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_00]: because of this round shape, the drag remains quite good.

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And the penetration in the air would be good, you know,

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and and you will be performing well, because when you have

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_00]: when you are sailing or riding at 40 knots,

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_00]: that means that you have almost 50, 55 knots of wind in your body.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So your body start to be really a break.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the drag is the square of the speed.

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So the more you go quick, the more the drag is present.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And really the body, like in kite foiling,

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_00]: for instance, we made bigger studies.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Kite foiling, the body represents 50 percent of the drag.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So you really need to think the way you stand on the kite foil

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and the way you act, because this is a big part of the performance.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And here we are so lucky to have Max.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So Max Madder is from Singapore and is the world champion.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So he's riding with us and he's giving us a lot of tips, a lot of feedback.

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_00]: It's an incredible athletes giving us a lot of feedback.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is the pinnacle of water sports.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the crossover.

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a helmet that you can go for.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You can go skiing with it and you can you can go windsurfing at 40 knots.

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Antoine Albault is using it for speed records.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_00]: You can use it on kite foiling.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Alex Caser is using it also

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_00]: when he made his records.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is what said GP and America's Cup guys are using super high protective

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_00]: helmets. And of course, what can do the best can do the least.

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And then so if you are 20 knots and you want to have the best protection,

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_00]: you get this one. And it's so good.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so this is just to give a kind of franking.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_01]: What makes it the most protective?

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it the material used on the inside?

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it the shell casing used?

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_01]: What makes it better than number one is pretty easy to understand.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Like for those that are just listening in, like number one is just obviously foam

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's a good shell protecting.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And then it goes to a harder level where it can be one impact,

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_01]: which I think we're all used to using for ski and bike.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_01]: What is taking it from a level two to a level three?

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_00]: It's two things.

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So the shell, you know, what makes a helmet good is the shell and the foam.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So the foam is to dampen the shell.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_00]: The shell is to spread the load.

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So the shell will be for the number two level to a level three.

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_00]: The shell will be fused with the foam together.

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas for level one, this form is just glued

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_00]: into the helmet in the basic way.

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So so so the form is just the bumper and that's it.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So the shell has not big, big function.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_00]: We have even we have even one element that is only foam, actually.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So so then level two and level three, you have EPS.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is a this new form that's made from polystyrene

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that is had a very high shock absorption.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And you have this PC shell that is a micro shell super thing.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why it's so light.

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's fused on the EPS so that when you have an impact,

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_00]: there is a kind of delamination of the shell on the foam,

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_00]: a little bit like a surfboard where you know the epoxy

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and with the fiber is glued to the foam and it's creating a sandwich.

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It's creating a stiff system.

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And when you shock it, it will dampen the shock and crack

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_00]: only in a small spot.

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So so that's the that's the way it goes.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is what makes the level two and level three.

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's part of the thickness and part of the way of the construction.

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, interesting. OK.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's cool, because I think I have one helmet.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But oh, five or six, seven years ago now I've had I like it

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_01]: because it's it's like a fluorescent green so you can see me.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_01]: But it might it might be time for a for a new helmet.

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, I'm not pushing, but normally, I mean,

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_00]: every five years is a good time to think about.

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is what we recommend.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it depends how much you use it.

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if it stays on the beach, you know, and and you get UV

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_00]: all day long and you don't care about it too much, then in five years

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_00]: will be totally ready to be changed.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_00]: If you care about it very nicely and maybe you use it less,

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_00]: then you can last longer.

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_00]: But normally, five years is a good time to change your helmet.

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_00]: What is very important is to wear correctly your helmet.

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So you have to adjust the strap.

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I see so many people with the strap run here,

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, so so then at the first fold, the helmet will fly away.

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So you need to adjust your chin strap

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_00]: so that it's it's one centimeter to your your chin here.

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And also the location of the dividers,

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_00]: you have some dividers on the side, you see.

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_00]: This is what we call a divider.

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So so this part has to fit below your ear nicely.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So the helmet is stable on the on the head.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_00]: You need to have a you need to have a fit system on the back.

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So the system is very important to hold or so and have a snake fit.

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you need to adjust the chin in a very nice way

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_00]: so that it fits well to your head.

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you are well adjusted, it's way better

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_00]: than if you have the best helmet without any adjustments,

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_00]: because then it's used.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Now for wing foiling, because you do have a sharp foil.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Last year or the year before we were on a lake on Vancouver Island,

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_01]: my buddy didn't wear his and his board flipped over and it fell

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and the foil caught him in the back of the head just above the brain stem,

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_01]: just where it starts to get soft and stuff.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And it caught him there and he had to rip to the hospital.

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a bunch of different things that come into play.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You have ear protection on the water.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_01]: So like whether or not you have padded stuff over your ears

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and then how far down that helmet goes

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_01]: to protect you from any impacts on the side, like engineering,

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_01]: all that kind of thing must be pretty fun.

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Like how do you engineer a product like that?

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you make a list of all the things or like how does that process go

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_01]: from thought to product?

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, working with the providers is very interesting.

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, especially the American Scapers writers

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that was really very, very interesting.

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So what they say is basically, first of all, you need to protect

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_00]: your vital area.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is your head and this is your torso.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is where you really need to have protection

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_00]: because you have your heart and you have really your key elements.

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_00]: If you cut a bit of your arm, it's going to be painful,

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_00]: but it's not a big, big deal unless you get one of your arterial.

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Same for the legs.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_00]: The neck is a difficult topic

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_00]: because the neck is moving that much.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And for me, the mission of protection

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_00]: is not to restrain your practice,

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_00]: because if you are into an armor where you are totally locked in,

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_00]: first of all, you are not going to use it because it's not fun.

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And also, it's going to be dangerous because you cannot really turn your head

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_00]: in the right way to see around you and to enjoy your

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and be safe on the water.

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So there are some parts that are very difficult to protect.

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It's the neck.

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But the torso and the head is quite easy to protect.

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And you have to do that for sure.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So then after you limit the risk, basically,

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and yes, you will still be able to hit in these spots.

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_00]: But then in that case, you know, when you fall, you do that naturally.

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So there are things to try to limit the risk.

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But the zero risk is not existing and you still have the arm.

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So right now we are working. It's quite interesting.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, as you are, I think you are doing windsurfing, right?

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_00]: You are both.

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Something very interesting these days and we did work on that is the whiplash.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So basically, when you are windsurfing with Finn,

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_00]: you go full speed and then there is a point where you feel the crush.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you start to have the board, start like that,

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, the Finn starts to spin out.

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, and then this is the time where you eject,

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, you remove your harness and then jump out and then quit the board.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And normally it's going quite OK. You know that, right?

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, definitely. Lots of times.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But then the next level is when you are falling

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and you are falling full speed.

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And there it's a different problem.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, you are like 50 centimeters above the water.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you have a wind or if you have a ventilation in your foil,

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_00]: you don't see the foil coming.

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It's zero one. It's one zero immediately because the foil

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_00]: lose the momentum and then suddenly your board is doing that.

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_00]: The foil catch back the grip and act as an anchor.

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So your board is stopping like 40 knots to zero in one second.

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And what you do is you have your hand on your on your boom.

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_00]: You have no time to do anything with your harness and you pivot.

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So so basically your whole body pivots.

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you look at videos from look at video from Antoine Albault

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_00]: or Bien Der Kerbeck when they are doing their world record

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_00]: attempt and they are crushing, it's exactly what happened.

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You turn on your back and you fold on the back

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're bouncing on the water, you know, like ricocheting.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. But bouncing on the water because it's very hard at 40 knots

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and your head is doing being being being being so.

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So you have this big heat from the back.

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_00]: We call it weak lash.

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And and and this is really a problem that even in IQ fall,

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_00]: we've got some some guys

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_00]: not losing conscience, but having some co-concussion.

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a serious topic that we are working on right now.

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So we are making now extra pad inside the helmet to to to avoid

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_00]: to or to reduce this weak lash impact for the for the head.

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And and we are working also on neck protection.

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, right now there is a request and there is a need.

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And we are now working on that to to create like they did in Formula One.

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_00]: What they do, what they are doing in motocross,

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_00]: trying to bring something for the next to protect the next

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_00]: from this week, flash to like big extension and so on.

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not too much about the curse, but try to hold your neck.

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Not easy.

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Avoid whiplash. Yeah, exactly.

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But not easy because like in in motorcycling or in F1,

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_00]: you are looking straight, you know, and you turn your head not too much.

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas in sailing, you are doing like that, you know,

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and you are turning everywhere to see where the other guys are at the buoys,

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, and and that's why you need to have protection,

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_00]: but still giving a certain freedom.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a nice, nice project.

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Nice project. Yeah, no, I don't doubt.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't doubt.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So from going to helmets to impact vests,

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_01]: how obviously it has changed a lot over the years

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_01]: from your first ones that you made for sailing.

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_01]: What are some of the key elements that people would want to look into

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_01]: if they're looking to buy an impact vest?

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, a lot of them are not flotation devices,

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_01]: but they do work as a flotation device.

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So they do protect you and then help you swim back to shore at the same time.

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, some have pockets, some have safety things built in

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_01]: so I can have a knife, I can have a phone,

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I can have all these things because now we just had Steve Toby on from Maui

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and he was doing these massive downwinders

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and his vest that he has now is completely different

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_01]: than the vest that he would have just to go out for a casual ride.

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_01]: All of that stuff kind of jumps in the mind

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_01]: that would be fascinating to talk about.

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Totally. So first of all, from the impact, you need protection.

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So the former needs to be designed to really protect.

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So you don't have this white basic foam,

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_00]: that is just for buoyancy that you get in sailing jackets.

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_00]: You have like a dampening foam

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_00]: that is always based on EVA, this soft foam

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_00]: that is a little bit like the helmet.

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's often thermo foam, you know,

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_00]: so thermo foaming is allowing the flex

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_00]: because if it's just one piece, you know, it would be too stiff.

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You look like an army guy, but you want to have flexibility.

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is why we made this thermo foaming around.

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So protection and then we at WIP, we said we need rotation.

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So all our impact vests are 50 Newton.

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And I believe we are one of the only company doing that.

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So all our impact vests are certified for buoyancy 50 Newton,

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_00]: which is the European standard that is basically worldwide approved.

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_00]: There is only in the US that you need to have a coast guard approved one

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_00]: that is much bigger.

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But when you are doing windsurfing or windsurfing, windsurfing,

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_00]: kite trolling, you can use a sea 50 Newton.

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_00]: It's mandatory to have this coast guard approved for sailing.

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a bit different.

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So our impact vests are 50 Newton buoyancy approved legal

[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're also tested for impact.

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Then for all our impact vests, exactly what you said,

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, we are from Swiss, so it's a little bit like a Swiss knife.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So you need to have the big pocket.

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So look at that.

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a huge pocket where I can put my you can put my my leather man,

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_00]: my my my my my knife.

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I can put some energy bar.

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I can put a rope, can put a whistle.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I can put all the safety gear here, even my mobile phone into a

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_00]: a waterproof bag.

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is big pockets.

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You've got pockets here on the shoulders and with a hole.

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_00]: This is for a communication system.

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So you can slide inside the communication system,

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_00]: linking to your helmet and speak to your friends around.

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's quite interesting.

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_00]: On the back, we have also pockets where you can put some water blades.

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So so so later, so kind of camelback.

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Inside this this this bag pockets.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So you have water. Oh, interesting.

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_00]: That's very important because in foiling like wing foiling,

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_00]: you you go on the water and you go out less frequently

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_00]: because especially when there is a short break or when the water is shallow,

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_00]: you need to walk a long time to access to the water.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Or you need to be very careful when you are going through the short break.

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So people, when they are going into the water, this is for one, two hours.

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas when you are doing windsurfing or kitesurfing,

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_00]: you would go more often back to the shore

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_00]: to have something to drink or have a chat with your friend

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and come back to the water.

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So so having water with you

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_00]: is really good because you get hydration

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_00]: while you are foiling for two hours.

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a that's a good point.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And then what makes unique for windsurfing is this hook.

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So you see, we are integrating

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_00]: we are integrating into this impact vest that is a life jacket.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a 50 Newton life jacket.

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_00]: We are integrating a hook for the harness.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_00]: We have been early believer of harnesses for wing

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_00]: since 21.

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, we have a waist belt with a hook in our line.

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So we were one of the early, early adopter.

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_00]: We have designed this hook.

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's made of polyamide.

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a plastic hook that is very round.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So it will not damage your board.

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It can also fold a little bit on the side.

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So when you are on your belly, you know, it's not going to hurt yourself.

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And as you can see, it's located not too low.

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's located close to your arms.

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's very easy to catch the rope.

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's a great system.

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You just have one piece to wear.

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It's this harness that is actually an impact vest and a flotation.

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And you've got on the back reinforcements

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and you have here a place to put your board leash.

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So we are we believe that the board leash should be attached

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_00]: to your waist and not to your feet.

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_00]: We believe it's a good point because I like that.

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_00]: When you have when you have the board

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_00]: leash attached to your feet, that means you need more or less two meter

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_00]: to one five meter of leash.

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_00]: That means either you are using this leash that is a bit annoying

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_00]: because it can create notes.

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Either you are using just a rope leash and the rope

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_00]: leash will fall into the water.

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Even your fly at 50, 60 centimeter.

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_00]: The you know, the leash is still in the water,

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_00]: bouncing your board and so on.

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you attach your leash to your waist here on the back,

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_00]: it will never be on your feet.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You have your feet totally free to walk around on the board.

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And and it's a great place to be fixed on the on the board.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And on the front, this is where we like to attach our wing leash.

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So we have a wing leash that we attach.

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is the wing leash and we attach it on the front to this

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_00]: this one.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's great because when you have when you have a wing

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_00]: leash to your wrist, the problem is it's asymmetrical.

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So one time you have your front hand close to the leaning edge

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and the wing is very long or on the other attach.

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_00]: You have the the wing leash on the back and then it's going straight

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_00]: through your handles, right?

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So so it's asymmetrical.

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas if you have a location of your leash on your belly

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that is symmetrical, so it goes on one way or the other,

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_00]: then the distance to the leaning edge is much shorter.

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So then you can have a much shorter leash.

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And especially we are using this this kind of

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a special way being that is actually stretching two times

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_00]: so you can extend two times.

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you have a one meter leash, it will become two meter.

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And so this long stretch is very good because you want something

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_00]: that is not too long while you are using it.

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But you need to have something that really can stretch

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_00]: when your wing is upside down and you need to turn it.

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you go to the to the end of your wing

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and you want to flip over.

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And in that case, this kind of very stretchable leash are very good.

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So we found only these guys in France, actually, they are specialists

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_00]: into webbing making and they are making this very,

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_00]: very interesting leash that is super tight, you see super tight

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_00]: when it's not stretched, but then can stretch two times

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and becomes totally flat when it's stretched.

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So very unique

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_00]: leash that you can fix on your impact list.

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And interesting.

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, yeah.

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what we would recommend as a as a perfect setup

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_00]: to enjoy

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_00]: winging is getting your nothing to your hands,

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_00]: nothing to your feet and really everything to your around your waist

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_00]: so that you you are very compact and then you can do any kind of turn.

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's great.

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I started doing that in the winter because my mitts were too thick

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_01]: over my thick neoprene wetsuit,

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_01]: so I wasn't able to put the leash over my wrist.

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So I started attaching it to my waist harness

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and actually quite liked that.

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And if my board leash face backwards and my wing

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_01]: leashed face forwards, it kept everything pretty clean and organized

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and it allowed my feet.

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, feet are my favorite to have free because then you can do foot

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_01]: switches and you're not getting all tangled up.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But then wrist as well, it just it helped a little bit.

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Not that you're going to have a lot of forearm pump,

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_01]: but I've seen a couple times when your

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_01]: your cuff isn't big enough, then it's it's opened.

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I've lost my wing once

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_01]: because my cuff wasn't on properly because my thick was my suit was too thick.

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I lost my wing and then it just took off down the lake.

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So that those are some pretty important points.

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So looking at because you're manufacturing, are you making

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_01]: helmets, impact vest, leashes, any of the current products

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_01]: that you have for other companies?

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Actually not. So so we only do we we do

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_00]: only collaboration on the helmets.

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, we've been we've been approached by

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_00]: by two companies.

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_00]: The first one is Enzis.

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_00]: You had Carl on your podcast and and yes,

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and and Carl as an incredible writer is Bals.

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we everybody knows Bals just so nice guy, so talented.

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's the best ambassador for helmets because he really like helmet.

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_00]: He likes to wear helmet.

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_00]: He feel comfortable wearing a helmet and he can push you.

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what he's doing?

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_00]: He's really pushing the limit of the sport, going upside down

[00:59:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and crazy tricks.

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's not afraid of crashing.

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_00]: He showing showing the good tricks and showing also the crashes

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_00]: in Instagram and social networks.

[01:00:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And so he's a great guy.

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_00]: He has always.

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so he's always as a descendant on.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So so Carl was smart.

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_00]: We were talking with Carl and we said, OK, let's do a pro model for Carl

[01:00:15] [SPEAKER_00]: for for Bals as really good.

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we made the Bals pro model for him.

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's working very well.

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So so we are doing a helmet for Enzis.

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And also we we did a collab with Aion.

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So Aion is also a great team.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_00]: They came to us and say, OK, guys, you are specialists into water protection.

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_00]: We are struggling with helmets.

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: We are more into neoprene.

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: We are more into other things.

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: But helmets is a bit of a struggle.

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So then they said, OK, please, let's collab

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and please do the helmet for us.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So we made a complete line of helmets for for Aion.

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a great reference because it's really a leader

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: in in in in water sport equipment.

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And and it's quite cool that.

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they came to us.

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we are very small company.

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_00]: They are big boards and more big company, but they are smart.

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_00]: They decided let's go to the specialist and let's make

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_00]: let's team up with the guys, know what they are doing.

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And and together we did a great line.

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So so we believe in the shop, for instance,

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: the shop would take the iron line, you know,

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_00]: together with the rest of their equipment and the line.

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And they will take the specialist whip as the core brand

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_00]: to provide these unique pieces.

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, I mean, we have this very specific helmet

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_00]: with with the flakes and so on.

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So so we have few elements that we keep for us

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and we are few elements that we are collaborate

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: collaborating with other companies like Aion and Ziss.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And all together, it works very well.

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And we we have a good presence in the shop like like like that.

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_00]: The goal is to protect as many people as possible.

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the goal.

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So so that's why I mean, we are not so well known.

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So so so that's why we want to spread protection

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: across the boundaries.

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. Well, yeah, even breaking down now, because I didn't even know this.

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_01]: The different levels of like the three levels of helmets and looking at your

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_01]: because my impact vest, my zippers exploded.

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm due for a new one.

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: But looking what I could do on

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: because in winter, I've been going to Mexico.

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll do six to seven kilometer downwinders.

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of the time I'm getting hungry.

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's all these little pieces that I'm looking at that impact vest

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: that would be beneficial.

[01:02:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And actually, it's a good time to introduce.

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be doing a wing foil expedition in Mexico this winter.

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Where we're going to have three 30 K downwinders boat assisted.

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But having that where I could have the walkie talkie on

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_01]: because I'll be one of the coaches with all the safety pieces

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and little things that could have in there will be something

[01:03:03] [SPEAKER_01]: that our team is going to need.

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So thanks for kind of educating me on all these different new things, because

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_01]: safety is important.

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And the only way you're going to have a good time is if you stay,

[01:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess, stay safe out there.

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_00]: OK. I mean, really this downwing

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_00]: down down the foiling that down the wing foiling is

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_00]: is really a sport that is it's a niche, but it's really increasing

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot in Switzerland and everywhere in Europe basically.

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, people are getting right in on Lake of Geneva.

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can reach the shore quite quickly and you're lucky

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_00]: because you can you can reach the shore, catch a train

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and go back to your original spot because you're always down.

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Downwind. So so you can see some people in the train,

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, they're fired in wetsuits.

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So what's going on?

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I just say the Lausanne Geneva trip by foiling.

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they are following a boat.

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we have this big boat on the lake

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and they are catching the wake and therefore they follow the boat for

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: for two or three stops and then doing like 20 kilometer foiling.

[01:04:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's quite amazing.

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But in the real sea, I mean, in military sea,

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you had the air one.

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You had also on your podcasting.

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It cross it cross between

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_00]: France and Corsica, I mean, to this Corsica island.

[01:04:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So long, long ride.

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But but also everyone is getting one mile away

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: from the shore.

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And so then you are in deep water.

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not that it's completely different than being close to the shore.

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a different sport.

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're absolutely right.

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You need to have the right equipment in terms of safety

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's so easy to feel bad, to feel suddenly weak

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: lost or whatever.

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So you need to have a little bit of water energy

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_00]: into have a walkie talkie or VHF.

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: You need to have some food with you.

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You you really need to be prepared

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and you will not go there just for form without anything.

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So so that's very important.

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I was talking to Steve there and he said he had a boat

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_01]: support with him one day, but the swell built and built and built

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_01]: that it was 10 foot troughs and he couldn't see his support boat.

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_01]: He just couldn't see them.

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And he and he had he had a ski like a beacon with him.

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_01]: He had his phone. He had a radio.

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_01]: He had all these different things now that he's built up

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_01]: because he realized that, especially in downwind foiling, like wing foiling.

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're close to shore surrounded by friends, it might be a different situation,

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: especially if you can see each other all the time.

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But as soon as you start getting to bigger conditions where it's overhead,

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_01]: you can lose somebody and you might never see them.

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's one thing that he mentioned that that it's like

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: he had a huge boat with him and he couldn't even see the boat

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_01]: because they were an opposite troughs of like 10, 15 foot swell.

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_01]: It was crazy.

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And also, also, I mean, you mostly you never go alone.

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_00]: You go with two or three of your friends.

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But then the distance becomes very quickly because someone is falling

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and you don't want to fall down.

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you don't want to stop because catching a wave again

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: is a kind of a challenge.

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So you keep foiling.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And suddenly the distance becomes huge between two people.

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when you are winging, I mean, you are standing up.

[01:06:18] [SPEAKER_00]: You have your wing and you can really cruise around

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and you stay quite compact groups winging together.

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_00]: But down foiling, as soon as you stop,

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: the other guy is keeping going at 15, 10, 15 knots

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and the distance becomes very big.

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's a big problem.

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, safety is number one priority.

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And interesting is there is this new sport.

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess you have that also in your place.

[01:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: We call it deflate.

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So what we do is we start with our equipment,

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_00]: so down foiling equipment.

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: We have a small wing, like maybe three meters.

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And we go upwind for an hour or an hour and a half,

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, up, up, up, up, up.

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Then we deflate the wing.

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_00]: We put that into the backpack.

[01:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we catch a paddle or we pad the hand paddle,

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_00]: catch a wave and go downwind back to the original spot.

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's pretty cool because the foil is big.

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So you don't need to have a big wing, you know,

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: even with a three meter, it's OK with 20 knots

[01:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: because you just pump a little bit and you catch the foil.

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: You go upwind and then you will reach your original point.

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's really something that is growing in Europe a lot.

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure around your place as well.

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_00]: It's super cool. Super cool to do.

[01:07:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I saw a few guys.

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they were doing the the wing drops this year.

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's another one.

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_01]: But now with with a longer, longer trip or whatever,

[01:07:54] [SPEAKER_01]: that could be definitely super fun to do that, actually,

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_01]: because all the lakes that we go on, we can easily do that.

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Go up a couple of hours, take your time and then just downwind

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_01]: the whole time. Yeah, that would be amazing.

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So the the the the wing dropper is cool,

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: but you do that maybe on 100, 200 meters, you know,

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_00]: though it's a hard time to to to to have your wing

[01:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: would drag the same speed as you.

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So so really packing the wing and your back is a great way

[01:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: to then go downwind.

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, cool.

[01:08:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Cool stuff. What what is coming up down the pipeline for 2025?

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we are working on few projects in 2024 already.

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Something that I didn't mention that is quite interesting

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_00]: is the harness line.

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's a big topic, you know.

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes. Because harness line, you've got this

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_00]: you are pumping and then the harness is bumping into your face.

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: That's quite annoying.

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Then when you are tacking most of the time,

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_00]: the harness line will catch your your head or your head.

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So so so what we have done in in whip is we have created this one.

[01:08:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a stretchable harness line.

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So very easy to install.

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So basically here you have a loop.

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So you loop it on one handle.

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And here you have a buckle, a magnetic buckle,

[01:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and you have another piece that goes to the next handle.

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So you will loop the other piece on the next handle

[01:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and then you will magnet lock your your your your

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_00]: line like that.

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_00]: OK, so you see it's much shorter than a normal one

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: because it can really stretch.

[01:09:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And also with this buckle, you can adjust the length.

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So you have 15 centimeter of length adjustment.

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So you can you see extend it as well.

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So so this locking system is interesting

[01:09:45] [SPEAKER_00]: because if you are caught below your wing,

[01:09:49] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, because what happens sometimes is your the the end of your wing

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: is catching the water and your wing is flipping like that.

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's doing one turn and then you fall down

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and you are below your wing.

[01:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It's panicking, you know, and because it did one turn,

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a bit stuck into your hook.

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Then you will catch this small box, this small buckle.

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: You open it and then it release and you are safe.

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So so so it's a very interesting piece,

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_00]: very small, very light, very quite inexpensive

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and easy to install because it's made of two pieces.

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So you can loop the first one.

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You can loop the second one and connect and then it's on your wing.

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So in that in, let's say, 15 seconds, you can attach that on your on your wing.

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So great system.

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's called the the wing line two point zero.

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's our new wing line for 24.

[01:10:46] [SPEAKER_00]: That goes very well with this

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: this innovative impact wing impact impact.

[01:10:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I like the so I like the look at that impact.

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So it looks fairly thin to like it's not a very.

[01:11:00] [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's it's quite thin because it's very compact, very dampening.

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: We are using a special form that is really dampening a lot.

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So so it's really it's really thin, very compact.

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, very compact.

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm. Yeah.

[01:11:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So so that's for 24, 25.

[01:11:18] [SPEAKER_00]: We are we are working on different things.

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the direction we are we are taking,

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_00]: we are working on more eyewear.

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So so we are specialists in eyewear protection.

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So so we are doing this kind of goggles made for water sports.

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So this goggle has a specific here band that is made from neoprene.

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So when the water is flowing, it will not go into your eyes.

[01:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: We make like a waterproof ceiling on the top of the goggle.

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: When on the bottom of the goggle, you have this soft foam.

[01:11:57] [SPEAKER_00]: The lens is one lens only.

[01:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So you don't get the double lens of snow

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_00]: winter goggle, because then the water is getting in between the two lenses.

[01:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: It's really not good. So here it's one lens only.

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It's polarized and it has a great mirror coating.

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So it really reflects all the light from the sea.

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's that's a good that's good one to wear with it

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_00]: because it has a very good you see fitting together.

[01:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And you get a perfect fit.

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So so more and more people are using these goggles.

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: We are at Defi Wind.

[01:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you heard about Defi Wind.

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a huge regatta in Southern France.

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And we get 40 knots.

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: The wind is blowing and your eyes are totally destroyed.

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And that case is great to have such goggles

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_00]: because you protect you from the from the sand,

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_00]: from the wind and also from the sand.

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So so that's good one.

[01:12:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And then finally, we are we are working

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: why it's a secret.

[01:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not sure I can I can share that.

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But OK, let's let's give you the very exclusive time.

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So we are working on every go.

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing else. So so in water sports, we believe we believe

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: surfing deserve

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_00]: something new because it's time to to think about it.

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: You've seen some guys in pipeline.

[01:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you may see

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Kaylaini crushing in pipeline and breaking his helmet into

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: having co-cussion.

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's time to do something new.

[01:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're working on that.

[01:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: We we create something new coming for 25 for surfing.

[01:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be very exciting.

[01:13:39] [SPEAKER_01]: That's exciting. Yeah.

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So so so so it's good because we are the brand is trying to

[01:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: to work for sailing, working for both sports and surfing.

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You see, so it's not so easy to cross over all those sports.

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: We can do it because we have just one aim.

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It's water protection.

[01:13:58] [SPEAKER_00]: We want to protect people from impact in water sports.

[01:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And and this is the the common line across all those spots.

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why we can achieve that.

[01:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And we are very happy to to do that for all those riders.

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: That's our mission.

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, Rami.

[01:14:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for for taking the time and kind of just walking me through

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_01]: this whole process and introducing your company to everybody.

[01:14:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I think 50 percent of our viewers are out in Canada, US, North America.

[01:14:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So and I did meet, I think, a few members that were there

[01:14:30] [SPEAKER_01]: at your booth last year at AWSI.

[01:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of how we got all connected.

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, thanks for taking the time today and introducing.

[01:14:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Is there anything else you wanted to touch on?

[01:14:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I know we we've educated me quite a bit, which is if I'm educated,

[01:14:43] [SPEAKER_01]: that means there'll be a lot of cool information getting out there, too.

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. Well, thank you very much for having me on your podcast.

[01:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It's very, very interesting, very, very happy to share this

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: this this work, this this passion

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and also educate people on protection.

[01:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think now if if we are doing a good job, if you are

[01:15:06] [SPEAKER_00]: forgetting that your protection, then we are we are winning.

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is really our aim.

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_00]: You feel comfortable.

[01:15:12] [SPEAKER_00]: We are your protecting angel.

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And we want you to feel great and water going very, very fast.

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Progressing in your sport, pushing the limits.

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_00]: That's our mission.

[01:15:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And very happy to share that with you today.

[01:15:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me.

[01:15:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, absolutely.

[01:15:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And if anybody wants to learn more about your company,

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_01]: what's the easiest way for them to do so?

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, contact us on social media on our website.

[01:15:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So forward with that come.

[01:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: We have a contact at forward with that come.

[01:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the best way.

[01:15:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I have a great team with me.

[01:15:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not alone.

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm working with my wife, Sophie.

[01:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm working with a lot of engineers, designers, passionate people

[01:15:50] [SPEAKER_00]: working with me to create this project.

[01:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And we feel we all happy in this mission.

[01:15:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And and they will answer you.

[01:16:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I will answer you.

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_00]: We are really easy to connect and and getting support,

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_00]: feedback and information.

[01:16:09] [SPEAKER_01]: OK, sounds good.

[01:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thanks, my friend.

[01:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for joining me today.

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[01:16:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And looking forward to chatting with you next time.

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. Bye bye.

[01:16:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, everybody.