Wing Life Show Episode #7 - Your First Foiling Flights

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about Wing Foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Alright guys, thanks for coming back. Yeah, thanks for having us excited to talk about Foiling again. Oh, don't we just love Foiling?

[00:00:26] Yeah, this is gonna be a fun one. Your first foiling flight. This is like when you go from struggle to like the magic and then a whole new, I guess, set a challenges, alright?

[00:00:39] I mean, the fun thing, again, like, you know, kind of like we've talked about that before, but it's like,

[00:00:46] when you look at it, it looks pretty simple. I mean, if you look at somebody foiling, let's say Wing Foiling, they literally not moving any works and it's just a cruising flying about the water without moving.

[00:00:58] So you think, you know, I can do that. I can stand on that thing and not move and it's gonna work. And it doesn't. So I think it would be interesting actually to, well, it will at some point, but not right away.

[00:01:14] So it would be interesting to kind of like share all an experience of like the first, our first flight and kind of like expectations and how did it actually go?

[00:01:28] And I think maybe we can start with them and you are probably the first one to be on a foil out of the street of us and maybe even in the world.

[00:01:38] I would say it was, you know, brilliant. It was easy. You just get up and you just go like, they're nothing to it. She also knows.

[00:01:45] I would say like anybody listed in, we're doing this to you inspired to just share that passion that we all love about foiling that you're getting into.

[00:01:55] So, you know, DM us, send us your content. We can break it down. We can run through tons of stuff in this, but anyhow, in this episode,

[00:02:04] we're going over your first flights foiling and I'll kick it off here. But I would say you look at a foil exactly what Glenn says,

[00:02:13] You see everybody out there whether it's kite foiling, whether it's wing foiling, whatever type of foiling in his e-foil, you look at it and you're like, that's awesome. That doesn't look that hard.

[00:02:24] I would say that it's not necessarily that it's hard when you actually like sort of learn it. It's, you just don't move and it's like you're going to be okay.

[00:02:34] But when you're first learning it, like it doesn't, it's more like you try to muscle things that's not going to work.

[00:02:42] You, you do so many things that you think could make it work. And if anything, you almost need to like relax and like slow it down and like women and children are really good because they're really,

[00:02:53] I would say, maybe less aggressive or less muscle-yon things and I feel like, and I'm not everybody is different for sure. There's very talented people out there, but I would say,

[00:03:05] breaking down my first go, I mean, I remember it 100% and I was, I did a demo in Tampa, Florida, and I had just been dropped off a foil from Nick Lee,

[00:03:19] and it lift foils. And this is day one of like first foils in kind of the US getting going and, and following the background before that, but like never was a thing.

[00:03:29] And so I did this big, kind surfing demo, and then everybody laughed and I was like, wow, the wind's are lighter, like this is what the foils are for.

[00:03:36] And I struggled like no other, I mean, I would just get going and it's your first flight. I would get going. I was really good with a kite so I'd get the power and get the full kind and all of a sudden it would like release and it was like a rocket ship and I didn't know what to do.

[00:03:55] And so I had a pretty much, too much power fly out of the water, come to high, didn't know how high it was.

[00:04:00] I think the warp is crashed, start over again and go through this process of like how do I calm this like, bumblebee down. It was like I didn't know what to do because this thing was the second it would move get on foil.

[00:04:13] I felt like I was like hitting like grease, like cool it was like what's going on. And so it was a new process of learning when you get up on foil is to have this well, here's what I would say for everybody that's listening.

[00:04:28] It was awesome because there's this feeling that you can't describe with foiling that is you're completely flying there's endless energy and power and efficiency and glide and it's like everything you've ever dreamed of of sort of watching movies when you're little about flight or freedom of like hovering or there's this really crazy sensation that you get.

[00:04:54] Now, your first times it's a whole different sensation. It's like bending your ankles and doing all these things that I was like because at the time I learned with a kites her board with footstraps and you know probably not recommended was getting bent like laughing right backwards scorpions you name it.

[00:05:13] But it was so awesome and I know that sounds not very awesome, but it's you started to get the glimpse of what it does and how amazing it can be. And then I think the biggest thing I took away from that day and I'm just speaking that first part my first experience of it was like I took away if I can just slow all my movements down like literally pull everything away like my legs move.

[00:05:43] And it's really hard and big twitchy movements and then the big one was taking the kite and using less power because I realized that the foil had so much efficiency that it didn't matter if I weighed 200, 300 pounds or 50 pounds.

[00:05:58] It will get me up and get me going and it'll be almost similar efficiency because I had so much lift and efficiency. And so that was a really hard thing to learn was to eliminate power now if I look to like my first experience wing foiling.

[00:06:15] I would say we were using wings it may be where this good is they are now so we need a lot of wind but we're using bigger boards and so on and so forth, but I would just say that you're just going to fall in love with it that first flight is so spectacular and you make struggle for weeks until you get it at least I did not think people now did learn a lot quicker, but in a nutshell that's kind of my first experience.

[00:06:46] Cool. I mean for me like I had seen foiling on you know social and me, then it was interesting for a long time before I finally got a foil and was able to try it.

[00:07:01] And so I kind of like I think like most people underestimated you know how like how it would be. So in my mind I was like, okay I'm getting this foil.

[00:07:11] I have seen some guys running and jumping on it of a dark so I'm going to do that. That literally had never been on the on the fall before and like so that after I don't know maybe like 50 attempts and literally zero success, zero glide, zero time on foil.

[00:07:30] I realized okay this thing is not easy and I got to find a way to learn properly you know I'm realizing like. Like it's going to you have to take it by step, you know all right let's take this seriously and go step one.

[00:07:49] So then I was able to get a friend to tell me behind a boat and that was like a game changer so like to me your first time foiling.

[00:08:02] If you can do it behind about or with any fun, I didn't have access to any followed at the time so to me was like behind about but those two options are going to be your best shot.

[00:08:19] And it is you know so sensitive so like you you you get on it when you first start lifting off like you you describe it's like this incredible feeling. But everything happens also like very fast you don't know how to handle it.

[00:08:35] So you kind of like have to slow things down and that's why again, you know, through time if you started very early like you they mean you probably had like a smaller foil which.

[00:08:47] And you know, you know, you know, like crashes happen happen you know is the end you don't have as much time to get used to it so.

[00:09:06] I actually I was pretty lucky I had like a big like spoon foil it was like the lowest aspect falling the world it was like literally look like a big spoon super thick super slow. The massive stabilizer.

[00:09:23] It like looking back it was actually the perfect for it to be on and I was lucky because that you know anything about foils and I got that one and it turned out it was it was really good I got it used.

[00:09:36] And so I mean the one tip that I got from my friend that was towing me that. On day one made all the difference in the world for me was he said you know just you.

[00:09:57] He said just use your hip to go for one and back to go up and down. Just your just your hip don't. You know think about front foot back foot because that's too much at the beginning you know you you exaggerate every movement.

[00:10:20] And so he like literally showed me like you know with your hip you move it forward and back and then from literally that moment I was able to manage how high I was. On the phone.

[00:10:36] So that was like to me that was the day one breakthrough and but again it was behind the boat and I think.

[00:10:48] It just becomes it's possible to learn you know with a wing in your hand it's just going to be you know a bit harder because now there is more moving paths.

[00:10:57] Now there is like you are the one in charge of the power you are playing with the win which is not as consistent as just like. You know, you know, you know, my first experience and then after that I took it to kite foiling.

[00:11:15] And then there was like an adjustment time again because now I was managing the power and so that kind of like you know took me some time but.

[00:11:27] That was that was my my first experience foiling and and when you finally get to fly above the water in the noise it's quiet. And even if you have a slow fall you feel like you are going so fast. It's the most incredible feeling in the world.

[00:11:49] I was a bit different. I was a win surf right so I was on a big easy win surf setup and to be honest going straight and getting up.

[00:11:59] It was the most awkward weird feeling I've ever experienced I didn't know what to do but eventually I just would move my mass forward or myself forward and backwards and that's what would help my board go up and down.

[00:12:11] And I had a big super easy foil so I got flying within 20 minutes forget about turning though forget about everything else but like going up and down wind surf wise. But it was just I didn't know how to make what go what and I couldn't judge my death.

[00:12:28] So it took me forever to figure out in my two high and the white votes were. The white that's where some of the crazy is white votes.

[00:12:36] I feel like we win falling looks the most sketchy falling thing because your wing is attached and you can get I don't know it just like it's almost seems it looks to have this to me.

[00:12:49] I haven't done it the win falling but it looks to be the hardest form of like falling.

[00:12:54] Jibes are terrifying which is like we're going to go into the next episode but falling you have to make sure to hold onto your boom because there's too many moving pieces and if you happen to buckle.

[00:13:05] And get your feet caught I had that happen once or twice and so it was scary. I saw some potential but I was nowhere near like graceful. Yeah, it took like fun and all like years but but so I guess frequently asked questions about your first flight.

[00:13:29] I don't want to get hooked though it's pretty fun but still hips that's a great idea. Head even like hips that's all you did right just move the hips slightly a little bit.

[00:13:41] Well and that's just like everything to go back to what you said they mean about like women like have like you know maybe like a better first experience let's say I feel because they are very.

[00:13:57] Smart but better than us everything better and and they kind of like very methodic like they take it step by step and they don't they don't skip steps they just like you know go easy and that's what the fall needs where you know we try to muscle it and we try to like until you get you know you crash and you maybe like you kind of like gets getting you're like okay I got to I got to take it easy but.

[00:14:26] At first you just want to be like let's go you know and it's like no let's you know first step you know slowly and then it's going to happen.

[00:14:36] Yeah I'm sorry to interrupt I was just going to say one important point that I think you nailed great and we can lead into those first flight is.

[00:14:47] One is no matter what you're using I think went in really well as if you can eliminate call out the wing or the wind server or the kite and just have.

[00:14:57] Towing what's it will just call behind a boat or behind a jet ski and I'd even say about tricky because about may take a lot more it'll pull you really quick it depends on your pilot will call it your driver so in e-foil is really really good and I say that truthfully because you're 100% control of your power.

[00:15:15] Which makes you learn how to one manage it to be able to balance on that power ratio of whatever you put in so you're really in control of it and I'd say for anybody out there listening and that's a very.

[00:15:26] A very good way to do to learn the basics of foiling but now. As we drive into those first flights and some key things to really think about when you're on a wing is you know you're you're now pretty proficient with you know.

[00:15:42] Tacking, back and forth you're not really going down when you're feeling pretty comfortable with your wing and you're maybe starting to get that little bit of light feeling on the nose and it wants to kind of like feels like the boards already trying to lift but it's still tapping along.

[00:15:56] And all that is good because the reality is whether you're two inches off the water or three feet, you know if you can stay to inches off the water it's going to make your life a lot easier when you're learning but.

[00:16:08] Again that's like what what when and Lucor saying is you know there's that that hip shift or that weight shift where you're trying to find the balance and you don't know where that is in your first, you know kind of flight but some really important things to think about when you first start flying.

[00:16:23] Board direction and and the reason I say that is when when you when you get up on foil.

[00:16:29] I guess the easiest way to describe it in a big picture would be sticking your hand out the window when you're driving with a car and you stick your hand out and you kind of you can maneuver just the angle of your hand and it's going to go up or down really easily.

[00:16:42] And in theory in the water it's the same thing with your mast because there's so much of a of a we'll call it a rudder that if all the sunlight that nose lifts up really good and I'm flying I'm like whoa.

[00:16:56] I can literally just steer with my feet no matter what the power is doing I can just steer the board down wind and I'm going to lose the power because I'm going to go down when.

[00:17:06] I eat I can do the same thing and steer the board into the wind and create more power and and it's a great thing to think about when you do your first rides in the reason I say that is.

[00:17:18] I think that's a lot of people just thinking about edging a lot of people think about the wing and the power and and I would say think about getting it to fly and then don't be afraid to use your board.

[00:17:29] And you're obviously your wing you can grab power loose power by releasing or gaining but I would say the one thing I think I see a lot and it's it's always normal is your bent over your like completely bent over like the wings like way out in front of you you're not standing vertical.

[00:17:47] And I would just say like stand vertical you know chest towards your wing and you're going to have more leverage but be aware of your board direction.

[00:17:56] And you're going to notice it's going to help you a lot in those first touching goes because you don't need to go 500 yards you can just do little touching goes put the board back down start again and I think that's like the basic best way I would say to get kind of those feelings of the flight.

[00:18:12] I think one point that. Through me completely off guard is citing and wind surfing we're so used to leaning out and edging and this sport it was like you were on a sheet of ice.

[00:18:24] And you had to stand perfectly still and perfectly straight and perfectly over your center of gravity like everything had to be in line.

[00:18:32] And all you needed to do was shift your weight what you felt is you just moved your head of your hips a couple inches back and then boom it was up.

[00:18:40] And then you couldn't lean off to the side because this thing would just kick you off like a bronco. So at the start it is it's nothing about muscle it's all about just center focus thing on top of things.

[00:18:52] And it's going to take a while and my brain was just like fried just so exhausted. So don't worry about those are all normal steps to this thing and that's why I think they say it looks easy but.

[00:19:05] It looks easy after a lot of hours but some people don't really fast you never know.

[00:19:10] So to me you know in in in learning how to fall it's very different if you do it on an if all and if you do it with a boat in the way that like to me.

[00:19:21] The if oil is going to be the best way to learn your like shifting your weight your weight forward and back because you are like literally standing straight on top of the burn.

[00:19:35] And and you have with this way you have the best feeling of weight forward shifting back to start taking off bring it back forward to take to come down.

[00:19:47] You you are like isolating almost that one access of like forward and back because you stand straight on top of the burn.

[00:19:58] With falling behind the boat with a wing with a kite you have another component and it's how to dissociate is the fact that like now you have power pulling you kind of like sideways.

[00:20:13] So you kind of have to counter that and otherwise you end up in the position you just said them in where like you are bent over and it's taking you. You want to lean slightly against it.

[00:20:26] You always have to keep doing that otherwise you you kind of like that that's almost giving you some sort of stability because now you have like two opposing forces it's stable but in this position where we are used to screw citing and screw in something is when we lean back we are also on the back foot we are like leaning against the power.

[00:20:51] And leaning back and now that is where you have to dissociate leaning back against your power your wing the boat the kite.

[00:21:02] And forward and back so now you still have to lean against your power but now you have to be over your front foot not over your back foot. If and we see that all the time through learning how to win. If you are leaning against your wing.

[00:21:19] You are cruising along but you are on your back foot it's going to work you're going to track up when but when it's time to get up on fall it's like putting on the brakes why because. You are telling the fall to get up.

[00:21:34] In a step at a step angle you know and unless you have tons of power it's just not going to go you would need a fighter jet to just take off like straight up. You don't have a fighter jet you have like.

[00:21:48] A tiny a tiny plane with a small engine and so you have to make that heel very very slow so.

[00:22:00] You have to apply the principle that if you get the chance to eat fall you're going to feel that at the beginning when you start going you it's forcing you to put your weight forward so now you're going to have to apply that.

[00:22:13] Wait for one over your your front foot you know moving your hip over the front and leaning back against the power and now you can you can pick up speed and the ideal position. You see my students is like.

[00:22:28] You are pretty much falling but your burn is still touching the water because now you are leaning against the power you have you have speed you're generating speed where you are not letting the fall go up it could go up but you are keeping it.

[00:22:46] You're keeping your burn on the water that's a great position because from there all you need is just shift your hip back and you're going to it's going to start lifting. And you just move it back for one and you're going to come down.

[00:23:02] That's the best position to be in because now you are in control if before you hit the speed where you have in a speed to get up on the phone you are already on your back foot.

[00:23:13] It's going to get up without you really being ready for it to get up and now you have to react.

[00:23:20] You are not acting you are reacting to the fall lifting so it's very important and that's why I like I feel like women have more success because when you tell them.

[00:23:31] Keep your weight for one they do because they listen to you and and man I like I want to get up let me. And then it gets up and then easier it's like back flip right away or you just bridge and come down so.

[00:23:50] To me it's better to be pre-prepared take it step by step and when you get up you got up because you you shifted your way back rather than being a position where you got up you are not ready now you have to all of the students put it down.

[00:24:07] Good points. What about foot positioning because I had some of my clients where they were going more of a goofy kind of snowboard style versus more facing forward.

[00:24:19] Like almost more surfing like front foot is almost pretty straightforward so when any pull either from a boat or from a weighing or from a winter it would help the board go forward versus buckling on the side because their bots would if they were more goofy footed like you're snowboarding as soon as they would get pulled.

[00:24:40] They would automatically kind of bend them in half have you seen any of those kind of things as well.

[00:24:45] Yeah, I was just going to say that big a thing now I'm stepping way back in the very beginning of learning this and I would say it stands out now still to this day and that was whenever when it went in the very beginning when never when somebody asked me you know what's the key to foiling.

[00:25:01] I always felt like this is my wing and this is my mast my body should always be in line with wherever that mast is it should if this is my board right here and I'm standing on it.

[00:25:14] And then what happens is everybody gets started and they start to break here and then whatever this does is going to just you're just going to crumble so it's really important to always be in line with your mast in my opinion.

[00:25:26] And it doesn't mean that you have to be bent over like crazy angles you can be a tiny bit of an angle but that means the pressure my body is pushing directly into my foil and I'm not breaking it the waist and and and the wing in the boat and the kite all add to what Gwen said that second.

[00:25:46] I item of. I have to control versus an e-flow where there's one item and that's the power and standing on the board versus another item that's now opposing that I have to hang onto and it can break me so it's important always have your foil.

[00:26:01] Your mast I would say your mast in line with your body so if everything can be vertical like that then all you're really doing is you're you're still breaking down to the exact same thing in the very beginning which we talked about is the forward back because really you're standing directly over the mast you can't break over the front or back scorpion or follow the front.

[00:26:22] crumble you now just have to.

[00:26:26] create the up and down using your shifting your hips forward or back and I think that's a huge key because when you're first learning to fight in the way you're bent over and now when you're bent when the foil has a little bit energy it's going to try to break even more.

[00:26:41] when you're completely bent over so I would say I think foot position I think can be moved to the that's a tricky foot position I think in the beginning is pretty tricky because.

[00:26:51] everybody's foils could be maybe too far back to far forward there you know they're they're wing can pull them in different positions but I would say in general.

[00:27:04] when you get to a certain point you'll know that point when you're like when said when you're right along and you're you're efficient enough to kind of be skipping.

[00:27:12] you can be foiling with the board still kind of on the water and I think people think I have to be up and I and I totally agree with going that you you the your full if you get movement going that foil is working it's starting it's it's already trying to lift you it's already trying to get it more.

[00:27:30] you're going to be working on the water and it's going to be a little bit more light where the board will just skip on the water that's the best time to understand and really learn it versus trying to go super high because.

[00:27:40] you know that's what I'm saying is actually we're going to say women will listen and they'll stay right there and men are like full amount looking at the crash right you know that's like that's kind of sorry we're priced area type and then that's for sure what I did.

[00:27:54] to me like with with like foot position what's interesting is like I don't think there is like one you know magic you know all like a calculation you could do and it's like my feet should be there otherwise it's almost like you could have foot straps and I would be the best way because you it would keep your feet right there but in my opinion.

[00:28:14] it's not recommended to learn with foot straps but it's just like you know e-foiling like you like literally you know don't have really to tell people where to put their feet they're going to naturally put them where they need to be but the one thing that I would say helps.

[00:28:32] is not to necessarily be in line like on the center line of the burn but be slightly offset so you know you like if we are talking about like.

[00:28:46] winning or ciling or something that has some power to explain it your front foot would be slightly upwind and your back foot should would be slightly on the downwind rail.

[00:28:57] that offset position where your feet are not on the center line is giving you a tiny bit more stability side to side so not only you have kind of like you know leverage for one and back.

[00:29:12] but you also have now more leverage side to side and that that you know to me I've seen most success with having people slightly offset than having people totally on the center line of the burn.

[00:29:28] now something that is important and again it's the difference a big difference between e-foiling and anything where you are being told is you always want to keep a net when you are being told and that's a result of.

[00:29:43] you know, you're going to be a little bit more countering that first otherwise like you explain them and you you you are breaking that line between you and the fall and are you're going to tackle and you're going to you know fall on your fall or.

[00:29:59] if there is something pouring you you always going to have a net that's kind of like countering that it's you know you can think about it if you've done some snowboarding like snowboarding you always keep your edge.

[00:30:14] when you go down you know when you snowball imagine if you know you your the edge is kind of like the edge that's facing uphill. if you edge with your edge facing downhill you are like going snowball and it doesn't work so you always have that edge against.

[00:30:35] the power so the mountain would be like okay it's putting you down down hill you are edging against it you have a wing you are edging against it as soon as you start.

[00:30:45] breaking that edge and comes flat if you have power now it's taking you now you are not. in control anymore so that's that's very important to always with your feet position it can help to be offset to keep that rail.

[00:31:03] upwind rail slightly digging just like snowboarding you just like you would do snowboarding for sure I would say. help me impact vest.

[00:31:22] I mean I've like crack ribs learning like it's you're going to get you're going to get beat up and that's part of the process or like you know protect protect yourself if you have like.

[00:31:34] I mean I would say try not to learn with the foil that's sharp on on on the edge you know that that it's not necessary doesn't really like increase performance and and it just more dangerous.

[00:31:48] the foil I started was it was like literally you couldn't like cut yourself on the on the edge because it was coming down like that and it was like literally a wall on the side.

[00:32:00] but they don't make that anymore I guess it's not good enough but because no we learned out of foil.

[00:32:09] I would say look the best advice when you're at this stage of getting up your first flight is make sure you put the time in tacking back and forth or put your time in taking a E4 lesson or because the reality is you don't have to.

[00:32:28] be flying on foil you can be having that board hovering along like when said like literally if this is if this is the ocean or water flat.

[00:32:38] that you can just be a tiny bit of tilt with the mask right here and that tiny bit of tilt can just be enough lift where that board skip along where it can take you up when and up when and up when and then you can again just just you can have that board on the water and at any given time like when said you can just.

[00:32:57] little shift back with your your your hips and all the sun it's going to lift and fly but if you can learn and know that front foot or my weight forwards going to just put the nose back down.

[00:33:08] you get that control by kind of tap in the water very minimal lifts like very you know the board almost just always happen. You can you can learn for a link I think so safe and so fast.

[00:33:20] But you will go through those experiences no matter what where how how much shifting of the whip shifting of the hit back is too much and then obviously how quick do I go forward with it is too much.

[00:33:34] That's all part of that first flight because you don't know until it starts to happen but again you know if we're here to try to help you would say just slow everything down and try to just very minimal movements do a lot like a lot like I remember always talking to people like.

[00:33:50] you know if I just step way back like three inches it's like a double back foot you know it's like very minimal movement. If any do a lot and I think that's it's like a unit cycle on the water so.

[00:34:03] You know same same concept you have to be it's more about being like very precise or slack line or something like that.

[00:34:18] Then like you know muscleing it muscleing your ways through a unit cycle or on the slack line is not helping nothing is you know saving you you just have to. Be very precise and that takes time to to you know feel that have that finesse.

[00:34:43] And that's why you know taking it slow so that you spend enough time through all of the steps that we described.

[00:34:52] So that you that that feels familiar and then you are ready to add the next step and it's not too overwhelming if you go from nothing to all of the aspects it's going to be very hard to handle.

[00:35:08] All right fellas in both directions both directions yes very important we've tapped on this before but.

[00:35:13] Yeah always do both directions because you get really like keen on one side and you're like I'm getting it and then you're like in the ocean can't even come back you have a swim back so it's like.

[00:35:24] That's important to train it's both ways and there's going to be energy of the ocean maybe hindering one direction and gaining on another direction so it's really important that whatever you do one way.

[00:35:37] 100% to with the other way even if it's in short bursts because you need to train all those same directions it's it's actually a common.

[00:35:46] You know saying that I hear because and and you know we are part of you know maybe sometimes trying the bad example is you know when we just if we write with footstrap or if we just don't switch fit we write to us now people are watching us and they are like oh.

[00:36:03] We you don't need to learn the other way you just write to us and I've heard it so many times that like can I stop can I can I put myself to side pretty much and I'm like no nobody starts. Go's usually in the beginning.

[00:36:19] Well yeah on thinking about you know I would do it for sure and he struggled people big time you and struggle big times so no but you know now that I'm here to tell you the right way not. You know you what to do. You're finger.

[00:36:37] So yes it is important to learn both ways. Not to throw you under the bus. You heard it folks. You heard it.

[00:36:50] All right guys our next one is going to be I can go straight now what so we're going to lead into that one and for folks at home who are taking all this in. Send us your clips and this is your videos drop us some comments.

[00:37:05] Let us know how your first file flights went and then what were your tips and tricks that you found help you but thanks a lot for joining us on this one and we will chat with you guys soon. That takes guys thank you.