Episode #15 - Sensi Graves

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing-foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Alright, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me, I'm excited to be here.

[00:00:21] Did you ever think that you would be like lying through the air on this weird magic carpet thing holding onto like this little pool toy not knowing if it's going to blow up or not?

[00:00:32] I heard so but the other day describe it as trying to balance on a bobbing cork that is on a pogo stick while you're holding a sheet in the wind. And I thought that was hilarious because no, when I first saw wing, I can't even believe

[00:00:49] that we have a new wind sport to be honest. I still grappling with that in my mind. But when I first saw wing and I was like this is so stupid. What is this?

[00:01:00] And obviously now I'm completely addicted and it's so much fun but no, could not seem to come in. Yeah, the first time I took it out, I was on a lake on Vancouver. I'm not even touching that. Like I'm cating.

[00:01:14] I don't know what that thing is, but I'm not going near it. But I think all of us have fallen in love with the different aspects of what it's brought to our lives. But kind of completely took us actually by surprise as well.

[00:01:28] But for a lot of our guests at home who might not know you can be go a little bit into the history of who you are and how you found water sports. My name is St. C. Graves. I am a multi passionate entrepreneur.

[00:01:42] I'm a professional kite porter and now wing boiler as well. Go. The founder of a sustainable swimmer company, I'm an inspirational speaker and mentor. And I put on women's kite camps and wing camps and retreat. And I first came across water sports.

[00:02:00] I've always wanted to be a surfer girl. I grew up in Northern California in a really rural area. Not a lot of access to water, but we did wakeboard growing up. I also grew up snowboarding.

[00:02:12] I've always been into board sports and I've always been really athletic and competitive. I have three brothers and we are always playing too on to everything and just beating each other up. It was really about beating the boys, not just keeping up with the boys.

[00:02:29] So I moved to San Diego to for college. Once again, I wanted to be a surfer girl. I wanted to be in the water. And I served a little bit in college but didn't really... Not distracted by other things. Didn't really put in the time necessary.

[00:02:44] So I mean, I still say is the hardest sport. But learned to kite while I was in college and on a total whim and it has completely changed the trajectory of my life. But fell in love with the sport, moved to North Carolina, started teaching kite and started

[00:03:03] my swimmer company, became a pro-kiporter and then a decade later, winging is introduced. And here we are. Always learning stuff to do. Pretty much, and always finding new ways to kind of fall and flip and whatever but let's

[00:03:19] unpack that little bit for when you kind of college, move to North Carolina. There was a job offer on the table from real water sports in North Carolina. They were looking for kite coaches. I honestly think that they were talking more to my brothers than to me.

[00:03:35] We were on a trip with them and the BDIs that they used to put on amazing kite trip. I was barely staying up when at that time. And they were like, yeah, we're looking for coaches for the summer coaches to answer and March.

[00:03:50] You guys want to come out and I was like, yeah, so I'm here for that. So I actually drugged my older brother along and was like, let's do it. He was at UC Santa Barbara. I was at UC San Diego.

[00:04:00] I was like, this sounds like an awesome summer job. Let's go for it. So we went to coaches training. They already had new who we were, but we did the coaches training pass and then in June

[00:04:12] I moved out to North Carolina with my older brother and spent the summer coaching. And it was completely dive into kiteing because that's all we did. We were on the water all day every day, whether that was teaching people or kiteing ourselves.

[00:04:29] The climate out there is all about riding. And it was this hotbed for park riding at that time and that meant that I started soon thereafter hitting rails and a couple years later competing in rail riding and kiteing.

[00:04:45] And so it was a bowl, like head over heels, kind of, oh my gosh, this sports amazing. But it wasn't a straight path to yeah, I want to be a pro-kiporter. It was more, this is an awesome lifestyle. I love being outside.

[00:05:00] I love this community and I'm going to coach why would I not do that? Okay, what were you taking in college at the time or before you moved out? Communications. I got my degree in communication.

[00:05:13] And I honestly went to the wrong college when I first, this is this whole route about thing here Luke, but I do not believe that anybody should have to know what they want to do right after high school.

[00:05:26] We put college on the table for a lot of people, but you have to explore who are and what lights you up because when I graduated college or excuse me when I graduated high

[00:05:33] school and applied to college, on my application, I was like, what, you know, what major do you want to declare? I put aeronautically engineering. Whoa. What? No. No, I got to college, you know, gained a little bit of experience and was like, no, actually, I'm way more social.

[00:05:55] I'm actually not into math as much as I thought this is not aligned. And so I turns out I kind of went to the wrong school because the UC San Diego is very science-heavy and they have a pretty air-inautical engineering program, but it was not

[00:06:12] honestly totally in line with what I was meant to do. Well, no, I think kind of like I come from a heavy rehab background, I was going to your major, motorcycle accident 2009 and then to rehab from something that intends in

[00:06:27] that severe, what I kind of looked at is you have an 8 point and you have a B point. And you kind of sometimes you aim yourself towards that B point. And then if you can solidify that B point, sometimes life will take you on this kind of fairly

[00:06:40] cool journey to get you towards there. So I guess just going there for you moving there in North Carolina and then putting yourself in that environment because what we're interested in, I think a lot of people who are

[00:06:53] interested in taking on these sports is like, hey, how did people get there? Like yes, they're skilled athletes. Yes, they were able to do certain things that other people might not have that skill level for, but aid did you put yourself in that environment?

[00:07:07] Like what came into your life, that was like, hey, I'm going to kind of shift here and I'm going to go towards this kind of thing. So for yourself, you're saying that move there, start teaching and then those opportunities kind of open up for you.

[00:07:20] And I like what you said there, which is you put yourself in that environment and I think that is the take away from not knowing what to do in college is you just have to try things

[00:07:32] and to try things, you need to put yourself in different environments and that's why travel is so great and morning something new is so great and that's why we get so addicted to something like winging that is this new challenge because it pushes ourselves out of our comfort

[00:07:45] zones. So putting our person in that environment that enables that possibility to even happen because we don't even know what's possible until we see it and experience it, right? I've never seen Kai think before I learned.

[00:08:00] I was like, what is this sport work doing and then it completely changes my entire life and so I love that just putting yourself into the experience, pulling on the thread of, oh, am I interested in this at all?

[00:08:15] Let me dive right in and see what it, what it covers for me. That way can learn about myself, what I like and who knows where it's going to take you. Mm-hmm. No, that's what I found that a lot of our guests have talked about.

[00:08:29] Like there's one of our throw routers from Brazil, he said he didn't have the money to buy a surfboard right away but life found a way that he ended up working in a surfboard factory.

[00:08:39] So it's kind of curious as well to see what your perspective was on that. Now, getting yourself your first sponsors and anything can be talk a little bit maybe about that like was that something that came naturally? Was that something that you had to work towards?

[00:08:55] How was that process? Yeah, no, I haven't been asked that question in a long time so great. Yeah. I'm going to think about it. It's interesting because I said this before, I didn't actually set out to be a pro-ky border.

[00:09:10] I always wanted to be an entrepreneur and so when I first got sponsored it was of course it was hard work. I don't want to detract for my own personal motivation and hard work but it was also

[00:09:24] being in the right place at the right time and seeing an opportunity and kind of having to push myself into doing it because I had met my now has been brand-enchied out there in North Carolina. We had been dating. We were traveling around the world chasing, guiding.

[00:09:39] I was continuing on this path of oh this is fun. Okay yeah let's keep doing it. I'm diving right in. He was a sponsored writer at that time. He was competing at that time. I was like, ma, I don't want anything to do with that.

[00:09:53] I didn't feel good enough. I had just learned to kind of a few years prior and I didn't feel like there was, I was like there's no way I can compete in this.

[00:10:02] You know I'm not good enough and so it took me a while to have the personal confidence to say okay I can put myself out there. It took people around me saying hey you should do this to put myself out there because

[00:10:16] I was one of the few women that were actually hitting sliders at that time, you know park riding and guiding. That they were like you got to compete. You're one of a few people that are actually doing this we need you representing for

[00:10:30] the women and I was like no no no no. I'm just doing this for fun. I don't want to do this. But then you know once I think I think it's sponsored until after my first competition

[00:10:45] I'm pretty sure and it was triple S in 2012 was my first kite competition and I got in through a wild card video, you know we had spent the previous winter in Brazil

[00:10:57] of learning how to do really to blinds and back to blinds and front to blinds so you first kind of basic tricks and had progressed enough that I was like okay well I can

[00:11:08] I feel okay that I could put myself out you know me while everyone's telling me do it do it do it and I'm still kind of like no I'm trying to start a swimmer company. I don't I don't what I'm not trying to be a pro kind of.

[00:11:21] And then got in on a wild card in triple S competed and after that I said okay well there's an opportunity to compete. I can't remember what place I got I think I did well.

[00:11:34] I honestly have no idea I can't remember but said okay if I'm going to do this I need support I want support and it was kind of a dichotomy of both wanting to put myself out there

[00:11:47] but still not believing in myself enough to kind of ask for what I needed and so I approached the the company liquid force that Brandon was sponsored by and said hey I want to I want to compete what can you do for me?

[00:12:01] I actually said this is actually what happened Luke. I said I'll do your social media in exchange for for a year because I didn't feel good enough to you know ask for what what I actually needed and perhaps what I was worth and so I actually

[00:12:16] working with Luke for us doing their social media in exchange for for gear and so that was a smoothest slow evolution of oh yeah asking for a little bit more asking for a little more sport

[00:12:27] little more support and meanwhile still competing and building at my name both in this swim world and in the competition world. That's a story. No I appreciate the kind of in depth and to look at it because obviously just getting into pro

[00:12:47] like you still have to have a regular job like you're still making money elsewhere obviously and kind of because if you're just getting gear you still have to pay for your trips and

[00:12:57] pay for everything around to compete corrupt. Oh yeah and I waitress for a long time you know the first four years I coach guiding for the first four years after I graduated college and then

[00:13:12] was starting my swimmer business on the side which really was not making any money and was waitress in as well and then when we moved to the river actually in 2012 so right after my first competition

[00:13:24] I waitress for another six years after that and so it was really a and even when I started getting paid as a kite I still needed to and I still wanted to make more money because you know

[00:13:38] I was going to pay peanuts and I'm like I need to I need to fund this and I want to feel confident in the amount of money I'm making I don't want to be living paycheck to paycheck.

[00:13:51] I'm going to hustle I was embarrassed about that for a long time to be honest because I was like I feel like I should be making more money as both a professional athlete and as someone that owns their own business and I feel like I shouldn't have to

[00:14:07] have a side hustle in order to make my dreams work but the reality was I was choosing to do that and I was choosing to make enough money to fund what both both of my dreams and so I don't think there's

[00:14:21] anything wrong with having what Marie for Leopold's a bridge job a way to actually make your dreams happen and you know I'm proud of myself for working hard doing that but yeah I hustled for a long time

[00:14:35] yeah no I think like a lot of entrepreneurs like I'm an entrepreneur, Thomas and his on right as well and we have this goal and this dream of what we'd like to do but to get there

[00:14:47] you're doing kind of whatever it is that comes in front of you to help you kind of achieve that how did you even enter into the swim world space was that something you knew, was that something

[00:14:57] that came on like how did you kind of find that? I had no idea! Is it really funny looking back because one of my superpowers is starting things. I'm really good at having a vision and igniting it into

[00:15:13] the world and that's an acknowledgement of a little me you know it was 23 years old when I first launched and I did not know anything but it was that naive it's a that allowed me to even put myself out there because

[00:15:28] I didn't know what I didn't know and the only way to get started is that one step of at a time and so I was like alright I want to do this thing it was because I was in the water every single day

[00:15:40] in a swimsuit every single day and I knew that I I always wanted to be an entrepreneur I knew that I wanted to owe my own business and I had this idea I said okay I want something that actually

[00:15:51] stays put I'm really tired of the swimwear there really was nothing on the market at that time that was geared towards active women that wasn't speedo that wasn't path of going in that was

[00:16:01] something that was more fashion forward and that made me feel empowered all the marketing of the swimwear at that time was girl laying on the beach we've come along we've been still not the

[00:16:11] foie but it was all just sexism and not showing women actually doing anything and so not only did I want a product that worked but I wanted something that really showed women doing things and

[00:16:23] something that I actually could identify with so I took this idea and I totally ran with it and I said okay other women feel the same way and I'm gonna do it and I remember as soon as I voiced those words

[00:16:34] because once again I wasn't trying to be a pro-capital in the beginning and I was like I'm starting a company but as soon as I said I'm gonna do it I was like oh crap now I have to do it

[00:16:43] and I remember telling people about it and being like all right well no I gotta make it happen I just told people I was gonna do this thing and actually I remember a few years into the business

[00:16:54] one of my friends Julian Filion former kite designer at liquefors now works for right engine he was like wow since he you said you were gonna do it and you actually did it and I was like yeah

[00:17:05] that's just my you know that's my superpower my superpower is being able to say let's let me imagine this thing and if I say I'm gonna do something typically I do it and yeah it was

[00:17:15] really seeing the need and taking one step at a time it's very nice to see Filion take charge saw some problems and then do that with a woman focused company it's pretty awesome

[00:17:28] thank you. Drillcompe it's not a journey. No absolutely so you started your company it's starting to grow did you know anything about sorry like how did you learn about all the different aspects of entrepreneurism because there's sourcing your product made building a team like design there's

[00:17:50] social there's all that aspect of stuff like I've been following your channel for a while just to see how how did you build that how do you continue to grow I find it fascinating so

[00:17:59] we follow a bunch of different channels just to see how they put their true selves because I'm finding this a big push towards authenticity on socials a little bit especially for business owners

[00:18:09] so curious to hear your take on all that. Hmm I've always had the strength of input sometimes to my detriment you know not taking ownership of the decisions I need to make but

[00:18:23] I asked a lot of question I read a ton I'm a voracious reader and so I dove into books but I think more importantly I asked people that had done it and I reached out to my network and

[00:18:38] I had a few mentors in the beginning that had started their own companies to women female founders and they gave me their insights help me write business my first business plan

[00:18:49] um one woman Terry Peck she gave me her fashion books because she had a shoe company so she said here you go here all of my like from fashion school book and so I really was open to questions

[00:19:06] and asking questions and really just saying okay I know I don't know anything but there's that whole little part of me that really didn't believe in myself that we talk about but

[00:19:17] I just tried to get as much information as I could from those people around me and those people that I saw doing what I wanted to do and so I'd completely dove into research and I continue to do that to this day

[00:19:31] Yeah, that's that's important. Finding out now do you look at competitors as well and kind of R&D through kind of that whole approach obviously as a as a entrepreneur you kind of kind of have to but

[00:19:44] how are you coming up with your unique new ideas you're always coming up with beautiful new designs new materials kind of pushing that same as winging is pushing different materials how uh you have your like a little

[00:19:54] department that helps you do that or you kind of spearheading that yeah I actually have a partner are you an intermediate level wing foiler looking for an epic adventure this winter if yes I suggest

[00:20:05] you reserve your spot for the wing foil expedition hosted by Agua Salada Baja California Sir adventures this coming January this trip is going to be absolutely amazing it includes ocean front accommodations

[00:20:20] airport pick up and drop off fresh locally made food and snacks created by a local artisan al chef yoga massages five days of wing foiling and the best part over 100 kilometers of boat assisted downwinders

[00:20:35] just imagine the freedom and peace of mind that will provide I look will be one of your wing foil coaches on this trip so be a great time to know the enjoy the downwinders but also ask

[00:20:47] questions to prove you're writing our trip will take you on different parts of love and tana and baja that you would not otherwise be able to access without a boat to learn more visit winglife

[00:20:57] podcast calm and click on trips in the main navigation menu once again visit winglifepodcast.com you click on trips in the menu with only eight spots available we know it's going to book up fast

[00:21:11] so we recommend that you act quickly i'll see there that has taken over the design she's a wealth of knowledge and design background um did 20 years at Nike and so she has come in to do

[00:21:23] the product development more so I mean I have come up with the ideas it's all based on what I need and what I see other women need and and really our focus is on not just making more product but

[00:21:34] what is the purpose of this product because they're so much swim where there's so many products out there we're really not wanting to just promote by the thing by this thing it's more the mission

[00:21:46] of the brand and more creating this collective of women in this sisterhood that is impactful and that sharing stories so we first look at okay what do we actually need and and can this serve

[00:21:58] a variety of purposes can this be more versatile and what's the what's the why behind making the product so not just pushing new product but it's certainly a balance because we're a brand

[00:22:11] that we need people to buy product from and so that's been honestly in personally my biggest journey around well I don't even buy a lot of stuff how can I ask our customers to buy a lot of

[00:22:24] stuff and so it's coming up with how can we do this the right way how can we be a leader for other brands to follow I've looked a lot to Patagonia and Iván Chinard and his journey and how much

[00:22:36] impact in consumer awareness and consumer behavior he's been able to have and so we model as much of that as possible but also I think it's important to find out and figure out the core of why you want

[00:22:52] to do something and work back room boards from there because it's really easy get distracted by what other people are doing and I think it's important to look to the market but also why am I in business

[00:23:05] what is the message I want to promote and how do I day motivated to keep doing that that is more important. Or do I so in short what what is that sort of sensious women? Hmm that's the empowering

[00:23:19] women in water sports and sharing other women's stories to expand the idea of what's possible for women and create more equity and equality in water sports we still have not as much media representation

[00:23:35] not as much pay still not equal prize money and still a lot of disparity between female and male athlete representation and so for me it's about billion platforms that can share the stories of other

[00:23:52] female athletes and create and spread the confidence that I believe is required to go on the world and share the unique amazing awesome humaneness that each of us has. Totally totally and I think it's always you know every time you look at it she

[00:24:13] look at the professional ones surfing tour and anything like that you look at the women that are really really high level and you just see that the support they're getting is so much less

[00:24:24] than the men that are you know at an equivalent high level for their category and it was really obvious when I'm a Nina's kind of pushing a little bit in one surfing but at one surfing

[00:24:35] and you can really see how women like Sarah Houser and all the other big names that she was sailing with they just get so much less support than other and then that are you know comparatively not as good. Yeah it's really sorry cut you off time.

[00:24:55] It's always you know it always comes down to a numbers argument that we hear that oh there's not as many women competing and certainly in a lot of spirits there are way fewer women but I

[00:25:07] believe that it needs to be a reverse approach meaning the women we can't get the women unless they see that they're going to be supported you know it takes a lot of money to compete on any sort

[00:25:18] of tour. You have to travel around all the time it's like quite a quite a sacrifice both monetarily and in the time required to make an impact on your sport and so I think we need to

[00:25:31] have a bottom-up approach meaning we're not going to see the numbers until we say oh yeah I'm going to support this woman just as much as I support this guy whether or not they're 20

[00:25:41] men in the field or this poor women or what have you so I think that's always the excuse we see there's not as many numbers of women but I think that we won't see the numbers until we

[00:25:52] put some money behind some of these athletes. Totally I mean it's kind of the internal circle right it's there's less support for women then of course there's going to be less women and then if

[00:26:03] there's less women well now there's less support for women so if you don't break that cycle it's not going to break itself absolutely and I think that you write that equality is not really what we're

[00:26:13] looking for it's more equity that is should be given because if you're looking at just equality it doesn't really make sense in this case because how many families are pushing their youngerals

[00:26:25] to go out and do adventure sports you know more and more these days absolutely but not nearly as much as you know men unfortunately so I think it's so important to have women that are doing

[00:26:39] exactly what you're doing that are pro athletes and are kind of leaders in their market and they're not market but in industry kind of giving examples as you said if you don't see somebody doing

[00:26:52] what you're somebody that looks like you doing what you'd like to do it's a lot harder to do it it's not impossible it's all. Yeah and then especially with the number of women that we're seeing

[00:27:03] in winging they're way more women that are actually buying the gear and so I put on women's kite camps and retreats in wing camps and retreats and retreats and these women have money they're

[00:27:15] buying product and when they don't see women represented on brand they don't want to support that brand they want to put their money where there's going to be impact and so I think there's a real

[00:27:29] opportunity for brands to show more support to women and get those customers and that doesn't mean just making you know the whole shrink-in-pink-it thing but it means actually saying what

[00:27:43] what are the products do we need women specific wing products what are those products and how can we take feedback from the market and really either just just in the marketing show more women like in

[00:27:58] general but have more feedback from women into the products. Not only I think that's a really central issue and you know I sold year in a number of different outdoor domains so quite a while

[00:28:12] always comes back the same thing when you have a lady that's performing at a high level there's just no gear that's made for her and it's just you know whether it's you know kayaking or skiing or

[00:28:25] whatever it is winging it's just there's no female specific gear and in some cases you need it in some cases fair enough you don't but if there was more women developing gear and more women

[00:28:36] implicated in the design process we'd see more women you know specific gear and I think that's right so important that you're designing gear for women because if you need more women designing gear for women

[00:28:49] yeah and I will say my husband is the lead tester at slingshot and so they do ask for my feedback and I am testing gear before I say but it's interesting right ancient as well but it's interesting

[00:29:03] because I to be honest I am not a passionate gear tester I like to ride and I can say yes this is good this yes is not good my skill set is not this is what you need to tweak to make this completely

[00:29:16] better for women so it's interesting because I'm like I don't even yeah I want to ride the new gear and I'll give you tell you if I like it or not but I don't want to be involved in the product that's

[00:29:27] to a certain extent you know like I don't want to spend hours to really understand how product is working and to really get the nuances of what makes the product greater not and

[00:29:39] that is not my strength so it's been funny because I like to give my feedback and they ask for it and at the same time I'm like no I just want to go ride a foot and have fun

[00:29:50] haha no I'm not totally understand of everybody's got their swing straight what talks to them you definitely need to know that quite a bit on the gear too yeah we just talk about oils for

[00:30:06] one minute oh literally no I give you you know look kind of intro to foil talks for our camps because you need to know what's going on and there are so many oils on the market that even I

[00:30:18] have a hard time diving into the nuances I have a study I'm like okay let me see what's new what do we get going on there are so many you can text out forever yeah yeah there's we have

[00:30:31] looking higher on this chat that basically is dedicated to just geeking out on gear and it's just it never ends there's always something new there's always something people are talking about it's nuts have you heard about people shaving down the logos off of their masks

[00:30:47] for to go faster yeah to go faster yeah I mean that makes sense I don't know if it actually works because I was just with a boat captain and he is a glider pilot and a glider

[00:31:03] plane pilot which works exactly like a foil does and he was like yeah that doesn't work at all that's done I hope I was like oh people are doing it that's interesting what was his reasoning

[00:31:13] for that you know he didn't think that it was big enough to make a difference like thick enough he said if there was a part that was peeling off but the logo was so thin that he didn't

[00:31:27] he said that would not make a difference at all that's that's interesting because I've definitely I think it depends on the foil like if you're on a really high aspect really fast foil

[00:31:38] because there's so thin there's sections uh so thin I think it actually does make a different I know that on you know most beginner and intermediate uh winning foils and it's kind of more

[00:31:49] surf who kind of foils are so thick that you know even if you have a big scratch to the bottom it doesn't really matter but like the height foil racers I know they just go nuts like you

[00:31:58] you can't touch anything they don't want you touching their foils with sunscreen it's like a also the voodoo going on there yeah but that would be yeah that's like the I guess the top

[00:32:10] elite kind of percentile but for the most part is people getting into the sport it takes you such a long time just to be able to a figure it out BC how do I get this to do this how do I get this to

[00:32:22] do that and then to take it to that even testing level as you're saying like that takes quite a bit of commitment quite a bit of figuring out so I don't know for our average market if we have like

[00:32:35] 20% our listeners or women it was it's nice to know because I have one female friend who's are very good citer with thinking about starting teaching thinking about doing lessons and stuff

[00:32:46] and for her she loves writing with us because she's she has a hard time finding women her caliber trying to get up there and then try to do it in a safe environment enjoyable environment

[00:32:58] so talking about all this stuff is great I do really appreciate a lot of that and kind of where I was curious about going was how did then you take all of this kind of knowledge that

[00:33:10] you have in the company building and then take that into your public speaking how did you see in public speaking I see it almost as I've done a few things and now I'd like to help

[00:33:22] kind of spread that message a little bit kind of help grow that a bit. That is definitely part of the impetus for starting to speak. The other well the one component was coming to this

[00:33:41] realization of I hadn't felt proud of myself in the decade of competing as a pro-ky reporter and starting this swim brand until honestly 2019 you know I had I'll tell you the story I was at the end of 2019 and because we're going into 2020 and it's a decade new decade

[00:34:05] I'm in all these you know accountability groups and coaching programs and I one of my coaches had suggested doing a decade in review where you look back at everything you did accomplish

[00:34:18] in the past 10 years and so I pulled out all my notes all my social media went through everything of wrote down everything I had done everywhere I traveled everything that I was proud of all my

[00:34:29] wins all these things and then I remember I was in this group of a couple other women and we're doing this deep dive into the past 10 years it was like a year and review thing but for a decade

[00:34:41] and I had all of the papers spread out in front of me and the leader of the group was asking some point-and-questions and I just remember feeling this complete bubbling up of almost like

[00:35:00] overwhelmed but a little bit of like anxiety and just burst out crying and felt this stab in my heart and had to excuse myself and go out and ball for 20 minutes because I realized

[00:35:14] that I was proud of myself for the first time and that I had never let myself feel that way and I had done all of this stuff and was looking at the past decade and was like wow I'm actually

[00:35:27] really proud of who I am and the woman I become at all of these things I've done and it was overwhelming and anxiety inducing because I felt so bad for poor little me that had not

[00:35:40] let herself feel proud of herself and she was working so hard to prove to whomever that she was worthy of whatever and I was the only one that could give up to myself. I was the only one that could feel

[00:35:55] proud of who I was and still to the state you're the only one that can feel proud of yourself and so that was kind of the capstone of this decade of uncovering and learning about myself and growth

[00:36:07] and learning and I was like I want to to the service piece share this with other people. I really believe that when we don't feel worthy and who we are and what we're doing we hold ourselves back

[00:36:20] in so many ways and that it's only when we can learn to love ourselves that we can actually have impact on the world because when you feel good about yourself you really go out and spread

[00:36:31] awesome this right? You can shine your light and each one of us is so unique you know I get up on my soapbox because I'm like let's go like it's so exciting about this um that is you know

[00:36:43] that that's kind of the origin story of I was like wow okay well I've learned a lot and it was the culmination of um decade of uncovering and of course business learnings and knowing that I wanted

[00:36:56] to share this and then the other component to be honest was COVID in COVID I was like oh is anyone gonna buy swimsuits you know the beginning I was like oh no what's gonna happen I better start another

[00:37:07] business and so I said I have all the dollars that I want to share and teach what does that look like I want to start teaching in that way I've always loved teaching but I want to start mentoring

[00:37:18] other people on on business and confidence and so I launched my mentoring business which involves speaking and so the third business I run is inspirational speaking and confidence mentoring and I love it I love

[00:37:33] it okay and that choice that's a lot there no it's nice that's an awesome story of how you were able to kind of have that moment that allowed that kind of spark to open up and then

[00:37:48] to realize because those are times I think and it's kind of like an impetus is do I look at this or do I let this go and then if I look at it and I spend some time in that moment like where is that

[00:38:02] going to take me and we never know but it's nice to see that because sometimes a nonchapiner or an even for myself like I'm not sure whether the grind and the drive and in that stuff is pushing

[00:38:14] you forward because you just have to because there has to be something that keeps that that's what we talked about our why before and especially for anybody getting any any sport like what is that

[00:38:26] why because when times get hard that why I'll help kind of keep that little pilot like kind of going so no thanks a lot for sharing that I was super curious as to how that kind of came to be.

[00:38:40] Yeah I love what you said there which is things are going to get hard and our while will keep it's going because there's a great Tom Bill you quote that goes the struggle of guaranteed success

[00:38:50] is not and when you get grasp that and say okay yep this is going to be hard like being a human you know we haven't even got I've gone through everyone's gone through trauma.

[00:39:01] No one's trauma is is harder than any others. I've gone through a lot of trauma in my life and I know how hard being a human is and so I want to and we know entrepreneurship is really hard and so

[00:39:16] how can we just say okay yeah this is going to be hard but what can I learn from this what growth am I going to experience from this what uncovering is going to happen and then how can

[00:39:27] that then influence me moving forward and that goes back to why am I doing this in the first place because if it gets too hard and you don't have a strong while you're going to squint.

[00:39:37] Oh yeah you'll quit something will happen you'll get because I was even talking to friend the other day it's like we get sometimes we just get stuck in certain things it'll be a tiny little thing

[00:39:48] but it can consume two three four years of your life and in that time period you could have been doing XYZ and pushing this forward so I'm always kind of curious of having those deep kind

[00:39:58] of introspective talks sometimes because I think we have to go below that surface level if we are as entrepreneurs ever going to help our project our passion grow because it's so much more than just

[00:40:11] the final aspect of things it's everything from just getting up which I think is pretty cool but what I was curious about we've watched that was that China Creek was two years ago teaching with Paul and Alicia at Windrider and we watched your Hollywood debut

[00:40:29] haven't you been chatting about that a bit that was pretty cool that is Larry's yeah I was in the movie send it the first I think that's the first California movie like I think that was an experience yeah that was we filmed that and in 2018 I think

[00:40:53] and I was one lucky guy border that got to be involved with this production that the the founder Windwager had put money into wanted to create this type of video he wrote this script and he had put money up for triple us for the previous few years

[00:41:16] and had approached real and you know pitched this whole project and I think there were I don't know 10 of us 10 pro-type orders that got to be involved I played myself you see my big walking scene it was really interesting it was a phenomenal experience I think we all

[00:41:36] kind of learned how long and our newest movie making actually is it takes a long time we were on set for a long time every single day but it was crazy I'm proud of being in that movie I don't think

[00:41:51] it had as much reach as the producer and director and everyone wanted it to have I think a lot of things could have been improved on but wow the fact that someone actually wanted to do that in

[00:42:03] type or anything is really cool yeah no it was awesome yeah we we I think all of us instructors kind of set up top and had some beers and watched that and it was the first time we had seen

[00:42:16] something and then we got to watch some of our favorite athletes up on there so I'm I was pretty it was it was a pretty cool experience to watch and the next day we pot wrap our jet skis and we're like

[00:42:26] I've got you join it yeah every once in a while some matches it's to be an on this like oh it's so funny pretty cool experience I'm very thankful for it yeah no I don't know um we ask

[00:42:40] everybody this but like how was your first foil kind of ride with Bucking Bronco did you like what did you ever like I yeah what did that feel like I remember it being super hard you know we

[00:42:55] like to say if you're not cursing at the wing you're not winging in the beginning when you're learning to wing if you're not cursing at the wing you're not winging because the first time I

[00:43:04] tried it was when it debuted at a the BUSI here in Hood River I think that was four years ago now four summers ago when it was like oh winging okay it's here and that's $1.99

[00:43:18] I think so okay yeah and that um that AWSI was like well I better try this thing first first thought was well it's just so stupid second thought was oh this is really hard still thought I was stupid

[00:43:32] and did three unintentional downwinders when I couldn't get up on foil at all and I foil a lot on the kite right and that's why you know I kind of think winging is harder than we first thought it was

[00:43:45] but yeah I just remember completely bucking bronco just being like what are we doing this is so stupid and I've been really difficult so if you're learning if you're out there learning it is hard

[00:43:59] take your time take breaks I think that's the cool thing about winging you can get off the born take breaks and keep going you're gonna get it you will get it but it is difficult

[00:44:09] I think one of the coolest experiences Tom and I sail in the Great Lakes so they're Ontario and I was in four or five foot swell or something in the center sat there put the wing down

[00:44:21] and then straddly board like a surfer I always wanted to be a surfer but surfing with a lot of work five seconds a surfer now you can surfer minutes and it was just I don't know it hit me because

[00:44:33] they've been like so many years of practice right for all of us to get even to the point of being able to ride like this and then you're sitting there in this stuff and it's just I find

[00:44:42] winging allows us to kind of sightseeing it brings in that kind of almost meditative space it can be into this fork is citing wind surfing like where are you in surfer you're blasting your

[00:44:52] feeling absolutely every single bump you go on off these little kickers but for winging it can be that but it can be this completely other aspect of things where you can use on a sub you can

[00:45:04] sit out there in the swell you can just surf like it's crazy how much that's for kind of opened up all these different aspects and for me help me enjoy and to kind of respect all the

[00:45:16] stuff that we had done just to even get there mm yeah I love that and also the access you know the new places that you can go because you don't have to have a huge beach to run your lines

[00:45:29] or it's kind of spaced to launch and you don't even have to have a clean wind I don't know if you feel the same way I'm sure you do but right the gusts don't matter nearly it's much on the wing

[00:45:40] no especially the lulls don't matter as much like for coming out like when you're citing you feel the lulls maybe a little bit less because you can kind of fly the kite a little harder

[00:45:51] but when surfing if you have a big lull you're just dead like there's nothing you can do you just and then the second you introduce the foil into the equation it's so much easier to keep going

[00:46:02] but I find that with winging because you're you have the wing in your hands and you can pump it and because the material is so light and just fills with so little air even if there's

[00:46:12] it basically no wing still keep going it's still pumping whereas kite for like on one four and I don't feel like you can do that quite as well yeah you don't get jerks around nearly

[00:46:24] as much on the wing you know sometimes here in hand river it's gusty and super up and down and I just remember having a few sessions I don't know what I'm wondering it's like I have to

[00:46:34] go in I'm just getting you know yanked and then with the wing it's world-class winging here yeah yeah for those who have and like for those at home who are brand new to win sports

[00:46:47] can we talk about your your kind of your home site now because it is world class oh yeah put a river if you haven't heard of it is in Oregon is along the Columbia River Gorge

[00:46:59] and it's right on the Columbia River which is part of the Columbia River Gorge this massive of a gorge that runs through Washington and Oregon divides the two states it's a massive river so we're citing and winging on this massive river the interesting thing is that the swell

[00:47:15] is on the water the wind is going one direction but the current is actually going on the other direction so in the springtime last spring we had a ton of current in the river and so you were kind

[00:47:27] of doing up if you would stop and sit down in the water you'd be going up river or down reverse excuse me so we have a number of different obstacles that make citing and winging here a

[00:47:38] little bit more advanced we have barges that come through we have a lot of river current it's really crowded in the summer but that being said we have win almost every single day and if you're able

[00:47:49] to time it right and watch the graph you can get really good conditions and it's my favorite place I wake up every day and say I love where I live I'm so grateful it's a cool spot and I mean there's

[00:48:02] so many people they're riding and there's a few that just have the weather so dialed like if you know who to listen to you you're always at the right spot always at the right time and it's it just goes

[00:48:13] off every day every day every day it's crazy I'm lucky in that that person is my husband like he is you know he's trying to get a 10 apps so he's our he he makes our shredule so I just like tell

[00:48:29] we were to go you just so sure that's what you have our straights right yeah no it's a funny time to the try and you laid the for him yeah absolutely and you got obviously nice swell like

[00:48:47] what's the variety in swell size that you can get based on current or based on both actually factors current and wind obviously but yeah so at once a couple days of wind come through we have some

[00:48:57] big days in a row that swell will build up even more and so we have I mean it can get huge you know rolling at the biggest like car sides river swell that comes through obviously it's not breaking

[00:49:11] waves but for weighing it's perfect and there's a number of different locations that we have where the swell the spot called the hatchery this spot called Doug our lintin Mary Hill where the

[00:49:23] swell can really ramp up and on the big big windy days you'll see a lot of people chasing it to those locations and just doing endless lap so it's like our own private little waves pool

[00:49:37] I love that they're they're not breaking waves because then you're not even dealing with getting out through the white water yeah just stay away from the boats and then you're fine and the other

[00:49:47] people are now you know with winds or frozen ciders and all of the watercraft we also have downwind subpabilers and kayakers you know there's lots of watercraft in the river you have to watch

[00:50:01] out for so that's I mean anticipating to be more and more of an issue as the years go on guys especially we're the winging I know when we were just starting to wing back home on like Ontario

[00:50:15] we noticed really fast that just kind of like the train you know that you get on you get on away if you pop back out get on a white pop back out the train that we would do winging was

[00:50:24] completely different than when surfing and completely different than tidying and she weren't you know if you didn't come from ciding or when surfing or both then you didn't know how to avoid

[00:50:35] the ciders and when surfers around you and a lot of the wings out there today don't have one dose so you can't really see what's going on around you so how do you deal with that and if

[00:50:45] I'm revered because it is really crowded yeah I just recommend people keep their head on a spot full and don't go when they're clear spots where a lot of winds are for as they're hanging out

[00:50:56] I just try and avoid those areas to be honest I didn't wind surf ever and so one of the most terrifying sounds in the world to me is when you put up a you know you're not having the fun with

[00:51:07] number behind you you're like because they come in really fast and today we'll take you out and so I always just think obviously always look before you turn be mindful of the riding circles

[00:51:21] be courteous of other people be nice I think that's you know the the cool there rules don't treat others as you want to treat what's the golden rule treat others if you want to be treated that's it

[00:51:35] yeah but really definitely looking I see your spot check up for the turn yeah okay so check in bringing your wing up over kind of looking bring me back down and I don't know how you

[00:51:46] guys feel about windows I honestly do not think they're helpful I never can see through them very well it's always yeah I think this look can't pull in the wing up is way easier to me interested to hear

[00:52:01] I have mixed feelings on them I feel like I was riding windowed wings for a while and thought that they were completely useless and I'm riding wings without windows and I feel like I missed them

[00:52:12] and it's yeah especially now that I'm riding in a lot of spots where there's boat traffic and they're just having no idea what you're doing like even less so than other one sport users

[00:52:23] they're just you know motorboats just zooming by and I would be really happy to be able to you know cruise along and look down wind and just get a little bit more vision but at the same

[00:52:33] time it's a problem right because when you're folding your wings they crack and she want to ride in the snow or on ice and that's a it's an issue it's definitely a problem they need we need to find

[00:52:45] a better window material I think hmm I'll tell the R&D department yeah better window material go so obviously windsurfing like the whole thing is fairly clear you can see through

[00:53:01] the kite's not getting in the way but in this instance yeah it is yeah absolutely so for me I just get used to spot check in a ton bringing my wing up all the time and I teach clients at

[00:53:14] the same thing like bring your wing down bring it up check bring it up check just get used to that obviously you're checking as you're turning around but um because you can get locked and loaded

[00:53:23] very similar to wind surfing kind of blast along and then but you don't know what's going on so I'm curious to see what they come up with whether or not it's canopy that it's a bit more translucent

[00:53:35] I'm not sure but I guess that's a cool idea on the pipe with all these like you know a little style stuff and all those you know fibers and then bring looking fibers that are coming out

[00:53:46] that can totally be a solution having a wing just a little bit more transition and you can't see super well for it maybe but at least you can see shapes and you can see if there's

[00:53:55] you know somebody riding down one you hear something like that I think especially with a lot of wingers in the same area because we're so silent like you don't hear that board slapping you

[00:54:04] don't see spread it's so silent so you can really sneak up on people and I kind of did this for fun on a winter thing because you can quite so much higher than them so I just kind of you know

[00:54:15] buzz them from behind but it would always freak them out because you just don't know somebody's not in the field well have to contact your senses when we're a design department and we can we can talk about how we can get this implemented

[00:54:34] maybe everyone just needs to be wearing hot pink bikinis and then we can see that would help but if but if we don't have windows to see the hot pink then we still won't see them. I do yeah I am a little bit apprehensive about having so much

[00:54:53] traffic and just gonna increase but how do you manage that I mean that's the the question and surfing as well we've seen a lot of places just get so busy and people dropping in I want to have a better that the management of access is definitely an issue.

[00:55:10] Yeah I think it starts with the education right like it's one of the places that has the worst problem with this I think is Hawaii and Maui because there's so many people on the water so

[00:55:20] many different waters for its constantly and they just have a pecking order and you know you're informed of it when you get there there's signs of it on the beach and it's made for a reason you

[00:55:30] know in my mind if I'm windy and there's somebody once everything and they want to get away because they're away because you're gonna get 10 times in many ways there. And you know it's me fair we're not really riding the same waves especially if the two riders are fairly

[00:55:45] high level but nonetheless you know like I'm not going to drop in on somebody from surfing while I'm winking because that's just like obvious because I do all those words but for people

[00:55:57] getting into it they just don't know so that could be kind of interesting what do you think coming and at some citing like what's the pecking order for you for all the sports that you see

[00:56:07] on the water that's a great question well I was just gonna speed and I'm not exactly sure what the answer to that is because we don't have not everyone's right in the the wave as much as

[00:56:21] you know breaking wave would be everyone's gonna kind of get on the same but yeah I mean we have at the hatchery one of the main spots where it isn't old winds are being spotting out a ton of

[00:56:30] wingers go there the winds are just have a certain area that they like to be in so I guess the pecking order for that would be okay yeah the winds are first there there are stouters they've

[00:56:38] been coming there for 50 years or whatever that's there's but um and the wingers can go a little bit lower but I was gonna say I think a lot of it is involved in education and actually teaching

[00:56:53] people right away rules because what I've had a lot of kite students that have no idea on right away rules and I really that's one of the things we pride ourselves on with start kite 40 might our kite camps and retreats is teaching proper beach management and right away

[00:57:10] and how to yield and how to turn around safely and just how to manage yourself when you're at a new spot or your home spot and to do so respectfully and win away that keeps everyone safe because

[00:57:22] I'm sure you've experienced this I mean especially with kite not nearly as much with winging but people just not even being able to get off the beach because I don't know how to watch the kite

[00:57:30] properly or what happened you just like oh my gosh or just you're just put everywhere not just being once again courteous and respectful and leaving now there's that you want to be treated

[00:57:45] it takes time and I think it takes time with a lot of these sports and I think we have to respect the fact that there is that learning curve and I like to do things a little bit maybe slower

[00:57:55] like how people learn on land have them take their time have them connect we had some other guests with a a writer from Peru and he was more of a minimalist kind of gear approach where he had

[00:58:08] one one kind of thing like one foil one board one wing and he's like master that thing get you stew it like become its friend and then feel its little things and then from there you can kind

[00:58:19] of expand but there is such a push obviously for new new new but for somebody getting into this for like it doesn't have to be I guess as intense as it does and it's a good segue to ask you

[00:58:34] what gear did you learn on for our audience yes I learned on we had a mishmash of gear because we it was kind of before was before we were on slingshot both Brandon and myself and so we were

[00:58:51] learning on just random stuff a canning or a member was it a Ryan engine board it might have been a Ryan engine board there's a hundred liter Ryan engine board and I have no idea what the

[00:59:02] foil was I couldn't even tell you okay that was a borrowed foil everything was borrowed you know we had one wing that were sharing between three of us I think it was a prototype wing that we had

[00:59:13] gone from I think that liquid force had made because it was right when it was when we were still on liquid force before they shut down so at the beginning of 2020 when I learned and but no one really

[00:59:26] had that's I mean that and still I think is the hardest thing just having access to gear you know if you don't have a friend that's doing it you don't to be honest I don't recommend people buy

[00:59:37] 150 liter board or whatever it is I think I learned on a hundred liter and then got down to a 30 liter really quickly probably before I was ready okay for our female writers

[01:00:05] if we allowed to ask kind of weight oh yeah yeah yeah I'm 125 and I weigh 55 okay I don't know 100 five of them I don't know what that is and kilos like 60 ish no less than 50 five and 165 centimeters tall

[01:00:27] so yeah I would say probably for someone my size like a 100 liter 120 is a good yeah okay I recommend just starting on a support sorry Tom what did you say I was just saying

[01:00:43] those early right engine boards seem brutal learn on because they're so thick and like super heavily level you must have had such a hard time with that oh I remember it was not an easy

[01:00:54] at all and unlike I said we went I went down size really quickly and I remember the first downwind I did it was on a 35 liter board, right engine board and I we did a Viento to hit a river

[01:01:10] which is 11 mile downwinder this is later that summer my first downwinder went with friends there was big river swall I did not know that your knots was to go straight down the wave

[01:01:21] and that your space actually goes so I can go no no no no no told me you fall like my feet so I would just go like a SaaS is possible down the wave completely explore at the bottom of the

[01:01:34] wave get that up on this 35 liter board I was so tired at the end of that downwinder and I was like what am I doing wrong three tickets and then and I learned I was doing the right

[01:01:45] well we all did that like I was writing in the vehicle like to be see the last summer and now I know like I read the shoulder kind of going to an angle like the start we would just go straight

[01:01:55] and then I would like the foil would come out like oh like I'm three feet up plus like three feet up like the whippers were way worse than anything else the white pants were crazy yeah my neck was just

[01:02:10] but strapped obviously on a 30 like you're writing foot straps on on that or were you just no no I don't put drops on no whoa okay I can't remember Luke I don't think I didn't

[01:02:21] know fair because I wasn't even I wasn't jumping at that time okay so it was I mean I made it hard on myself sorry is that just the kite foil board that you were writing no it was a it was a

[01:02:34] ride engine prototype wing wing board like they got into the prototypes pretty early and I was like yeah oh well but I'm not the only smallest one and but that's really before I kind of had known and now

[01:02:49] I have a 32 liter flying fish that I love but I also have a 50 liter wing craft that when it's light I just want to be able to stand up quickly and easily and so if I haven't gone

[01:03:01] in a while or it's light or even if the swells are really big and I'm a little nervous about conditions like if it's super windy I'll take the 50 liter that way it's no problem to get up

[01:03:10] I'm not gonna get stuck I don't see any reason why to make it harder on myself than I need to I've spent tons of time bobbing in the water not being able to get up that I just like to make it easy so

[01:03:23] I ride the 32 liter primarily but I have a 50 liter as well now yeah for people at home listening to this take note that this is one of the windiest spots that you can imagine and since he is writing

[01:03:36] a big board there fairly often it sounds yeah I just I mean thankfully I have a sponsor and some able to have multiple boards we were talking about simplicity but you know I think the message there is

[01:03:51] you don't have to go smaller if that's you know if your skills not there it is hard to get going weighing you know pumping that thing that's like doing a bunch of burpees so I really believe in

[01:04:02] it making it as easy as possible and you're still to maximize the fun. So if you're on like obviously that's a super windy spot so your wind etiquette with regards to your gear has to be fairly

[01:04:14] so like if you fall in front of it and your boards light and your foils light like what's your base situation like because that thing I've seen board just kind of take off and and fly

[01:04:26] so what are your maybe tips and tricks when you're in a high kind of swell high wind area? Well I definitely believe in having a lesions high swell I've actually been writing without a board

[01:04:40] leash recently because I you can get to your board you know putting the wind in front of you kind of holding down and if it goes far away from you but if it's super swelly definitely have a

[01:04:51] board leash. I haven't actually experienced where my boards fly in a lot like that um okay I have a waist leash on my board that's kind of my preferred method right now and then I really like

[01:05:03] the coil or excuse me I don't like the coil at least I really like the rope leash because the coil sometimes um I think they expect you in the face when you're pumping up. Yeah, I actually like long enough if it's too short that's really annoying as

[01:05:18] well because then you can't flip over your wing so a long enough rope leash I think this links out ones are really great and then I've been playing around with having both items

[01:05:30] leash to my waist harness so putting the wrist leash on my waist as well to be honest I think the leash is one of the the most annoying parts of the winging so I don't I haven't figured out my perfect formula

[01:05:44] yet that doesn't cause me any annoyance. Brandon's been going no leash which is uh terrifying. Purple? Yeah he's been writing with no. I yeah. I don't record bad that. I just forgot about

[01:05:58] your two minutes I was like I have to put this back on like yeah. Yeah and the only viable reason that I've heard to do that is it's gonna really big swell like really really big and I'm

[01:06:10] yeah right in breaking waves. No leash. Yeah with a support boat because otherwise you're just guaranteed to destroy the wing every single time you fall but other than that yeah definitely definitely restrelled or waste leash whatever on the wing and I have heard of people playing around

[01:06:28] without the board leash I I think if you ride you just get used to it and eventually and it's just a part of life and you deal with it you know. Yeah and it's better to be able to get back

[01:06:38] to your board easily once again like how can you make this easier on yourself and if you're swimming for your board a lot just use a boardle yeah totally agree with that. Yeah no that's fair.

[01:06:49] I'm gonna be no that's fair. Well you did say that you had in what is it six o'clock cut off so we're 15 minutes over. Is there anything else that you'd like to talk to us about especially

[01:07:01] for let's say are like our female audience is there anything that you would like to save of them if they're thinking about and this can because our talk was not just a bit sport but it

[01:07:13] was about just you following that passion that's spark and then letting that path kind of unravel in front of you as you went. So is there anything closing thoughts I guess you'd like to leave with

[01:07:26] well when speaking about the winging I will say that I do believe that it almost anyone can wing and that if you are able to separate the components and start on a subboard with a wing

[01:07:40] to get the wing skills play around even in the parking lot with the wing and get the fuel for it wing skate that's a great way to get the introduction of the wing and then learn to foil separately

[01:07:52] I think when you're trying to pull together it can be really difficult and so if you're able to learn to foil behind a boat or jet ski take advantage of that and try and get the motions and

[01:08:03] separate the two components before bringing them together because it can feel really difficult but otherwise keep going you can totally do it and I think that it's a great combination of challenging enough that you want to keep trying but you get enough rewards that you're like

[01:08:18] okay I can still do this so it stretches you in a really positive way and then as far as just following your path I think the message I want to leave is just to not be so hard on yourself

[01:08:32] and to really reward yourself for just showing up and trying and yes at the goal totally believe in goals and aiming for something amazing but to have a low amount of attachment to that goal

[01:08:46] and just to say what's the experience I can get from this what's the journey you're exactly where you need to be and the more that you can embrace it the more that you can actually

[01:08:56] enjoy life and share your unique gifts. I like that. Yeah I really like that too the low attachment to the goal and because of really cool concept. It's the process it's not for

[01:09:13] this mission. You have to or else you end up going win surfing and Ottawa thinking you're better than you are getting stuck a fish hook in your because I was going behind it was like maybe I am fine

[01:09:28] blasting by and it's like all crap I'm just sliding down wind and showing up this guys fishing and the fish hook catches me my wet suit is like complete deflate, right? It was like okay never mind

[01:09:38] I haven't done this in a while but yeah exactly it is putting yourself in that space of enjoying what you're doing and then the culture I found was it's a phenomenal culture with friends and community

[01:09:51] there's a curiosity that is there and thrives which I find pretty exciting in kind of wind culture. Yeah I agree it's the best community. So for people at home who wanted to get a hold of you

[01:10:05] attend one of your events what's the easiest way for them to reach out to you? Probably Instagram Sensi Grace on Instagram, Sianna size, GRAV, E.S or my website just sentigraveswim.com or sentigraves.com that's my speaking and citing website so either of those you can find

[01:10:25] me on all of the all of the emails at Sensi Graves and at Sensi Graveswim. Okay perfect well I want to say thanks a lot for meeting with us tonight it was great chatting with you and well probably see

[01:10:39] you and put river on the water eventually. Amazing come out and we thank so much you guys. Thanks for joining Tom and I in this episode we hope you enjoyed it and we'll see you next time.