Episode #16 - Richard Myerscough

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing-foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Alright guys I think we're good to go Richard, big thank you for joining us today on the show, really looking forward to talking with you.

[00:00:24] Great will, thanks for having me. Absolutely. For our guests at home, how long have you been in the winged industry? Sure, yeah. So I'm an old fellow now, so I've been in my whole life, so I actually started with

[00:00:42] surfing in a very young age, I think it was 12 and I was quite heavily involved in the competitive side of wind surfing. So in my early, early teen years I was already going to trade shows for various sponsors. So I actually think I was 15 or so.

[00:01:00] I think it was 17, I went to my first big trade show in Germany, it was the Espocho for a wind surfing brand. So I started to understand the sort of wind sport business. Oh nice. Yeah, and then which brands were you at that time?

[00:01:16] I was sponsored actually, the public most interesting one and I believe it was a company called Rainbow, which was an Israeli brand of wind surfing equipment. So I actually went to it worked in their booth at that particular show, but I had quite

[00:01:32] a few different sponsors back in the day. I think it primarily in North America was sponsored by Mr. Out when I was in my early 20s and wind surfing Hawaii and bare wet suits and all kinds of different sponsors. Yeah, nice. That's interesting about Rainbow.

[00:01:52] I hadn't heard of them before. I'm actually Israeli-Savigne, I need to brush up on my end. Yeah. It was a company called Rotal Class. They're a big, Rotal-Molding company in Israel and so many companies, just like you're seeing now with the wind foiling.

[00:02:07] Everybody saw that wind surfing and exploding in the early 80s, so many companies jumped in. I think there was even Porsche wind surfers, you know, commonly water ski had wind surfing boards, you name it. They were all in there.

[00:02:23] We're seeing the same thing with wind foiling right now. Oh yeah, it's just been a huge and massive explosion. What first brought you to water sports? Well, for me personally, I was very lucky.

[00:02:38] I grew up in my family grew up in Sydney, Vancouver Island, so I grew up on a waterfront house. I've never really not lived on the water. It was always right there. Even my high school was on the way.

[00:02:52] I looked up at the wind, and I was out of there on my wind surfers. So yeah, just very, very fortunate. So water's always been there. That's how it all started. Awesome. Okay. Yeah. So then, God sponsored.

[00:03:06] You get to kind of ride around and visit different spots in the world and then what was your first introduction to the business world aspects of wind sports? Because you started pretty young age as well into there. Yeah.

[00:03:19] What happened was right after my competitive racing, I had a few job opportunities within the industry and I didn't want to move away from Victoria for obvious reasons. You guys are all moving here. It's a incredible place to live.

[00:03:33] One of them was with white diving, so they were a local manufacturer making wet suits here in Victoria. As soon as I stopped racing, I think it was 22. I started working for them trying to sell and I was involved in trying to design wet suits.

[00:03:50] The day I started that company was acquired by Johnson Worldwide Associates, which was Johnson Wax, essentially. And then I was working for three years on wet suits in the water sports market for a

[00:04:04] brand called Scuba Pro and we also had water sport, what's a lineup called White Hot. That lasted about three years. They actually ended up moving their factory to Mexico which freed up all the equipment and staff here in Victoria. People started getting late off.

[00:04:22] My job was going to go the way of the dogo bird as well because they were moving everything too Ontario and I did not want to be Ontario. So, anyway, partnered with fellow named Frank White Jr.

[00:04:34] And we bought all of his machinery back and we continued with the water sports, wet suit line. So, I think it was 25 and I ended up owning half of a new startup called White's Manufacturing which was continuing on the legacy of the White family. Yeah, that's exciting at 25.

[00:04:55] Yeah, so we built that up and it was in basically 2001 or sorry, 1999 that we saw the first 98 the first images of tight surfing happening. And we all rushed out like everybody else bought power, power,

[00:05:15] carcades for land, bugging and made our own control bars and did the whole McIver thing at the beginning because there was no equipment. Had a toss of yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, and that's how Ocean Roya started.

[00:05:28] Ocean Roya, we started as a brand in 2001 and it started Ross Harrington who's good friend of mine and he actually taught me how to win serve for us because he was much older than he was two years older than me.

[00:05:41] Okay, so yeah, so that's the story right there. We sold whites in 2010 to Air Lequid which is you know, big French multinational but they own company called Aqualan which is a big dive brand. So they bought our company for dry suits and that left me with Ocean Roya.

[00:06:03] We started with dry suits originally under the Ocean Roya brand that that would really well. So he's designed these relief sort of funky looking dry suits for kiteboarding, new styling and then Ross came on board and started designing his kite. He'd been making kites and his garage.

[00:06:22] So I went off to Asia and found a manufacturer and got everything set up and then we started producing kite. So that was in 2002 we launched our first kites and control bars. So we're one of the very first brands in kiting.

[00:06:39] Okay, and then yeah, and then what happened was that industry got very there was no change in materials. So everybody was using Dakron, Peewbladder materials and polyester canopy materials. We had what happened was it ended up being a fashion show in terms of there wasn't

[00:07:01] a lot of difference between the products by say 2015 to 2017 and to get ahead. It was just branding and there was no real difference between the kites. It was really stacking up. So we sort of had a heart-to-heart meeting in 2017 and and realized that there was an

[00:07:20] opportunity because there was no alternative to Dakron or any of these materials. And that's where that was the spark to think boy maybe you know maybe we could design a new type of material. And fortunately one of my business partners Peter Berang is a really incandist and very

[00:07:40] stubborn. And so yeah, and do nothing about material which turned out to be a real benefit. So he didn't have any you know baggage coming from a traditional fabric manufacturer. He went off to his garage and about two years later I started getting some painter which

[00:08:01] ultimately became a little luck. Oh wow. Yeah, that's an exciting origin story. Yeah, yeah. And so there you go. That's it. And then of course we before we came along. That was that was an interesting one so that that actually was in a that was at a

[00:08:19] industry event in Cape Town and it was 20 where we now would have been 2018. Just before COVID and I was with two of the in a rental car with two the other brand owners we were going to a meeting and they started talking about this new sport.

[00:08:38] I had no idea what it was. And so and I just I said what are you guys talking about? One of them was positive it was going to be huge and the other one said it's absolutely stupid but we're working on it anyway.

[00:08:54] Second are you at liberty to disclose who those were? No no, I'm so confident. But it's pretty fun. It's insider. That's insider. But and I was like wow okay so I kept my mouth shut and I started researching and as soon as I got home

[00:09:09] this was a tip off for them never to give away secrets to me in the car. And we immediately started working on on a wing and so we weren't that early in the wing game.

[00:09:21] We definitely were asleep at the wheel a little bit but we did come out with the first we jumped right in with a composite wing which was I think a good move for us.

[00:09:32] Yeah and I think you waited long enough so that it was a wing that was actually worth buying because a lot of those first gen wings companies kind of scrambled to get something together

[00:09:41] because they knew something was starting but they hadn't developed it and so a lot of those first wings were just kind of not worth much whereas I think the first ocean rodeo wing was already a pretty beast in wing.

[00:09:54] So yeah that's you know that's credit to Ross Harrington and he's an amazing designer. He's been doing our our kites for 20 years but before that he was when surfing his oning when surfing sales and also he's he wasn't at a hangliter pilot as well so he's

[00:10:17] a very good understanding of those types of shapes of wings that were basically what we're using or many inflatable hangliders. So he knew what he wanted to do right away so we're very, very lucky to have Ross working on this project. Yeah.

[00:10:33] And we did we developed all by the way we developed all of that here um you know that was all done just essentially this Ross and myself because nobody knew how to wing foil when we were doing it.

[00:10:47] So I hit them with I think there was one other guy in Victoria that was hacking around so while while we were learning we were inventing the equipment which is quite quite a funny way to do

[00:10:58] things but that's the way it was so hey that's kind of fun to be at the beginning of two pretty big sports and absolutely exciting you get to see all of that aspect of things actually

[00:11:13] take part in development and growth and innovation and then take all that knowledge and passion and love and then dump that into this new sport which we have no idea where it's going to go

[00:11:23] but it's super exciting to see it explode. Yeah very much so right yeah and it's it's really fun too it's a lot like the start of skateboarding there was a lot of design that came along a couple

[00:11:36] of years into it and you had to really carve out a section because what happens is in all these sports there's a lot of intellectual property that starts getting filed so you've got to really

[00:11:48] try to predict what's important and get a slice in the intellectual property zone that allows you to operate because what what can happen is you come in and you're you're doing something and you see

[00:12:05] something with another brand and go oh that's great we'll just do that what you don't know is that there's multiple patents filed you know perhaps two years ago on that and it can take three or four

[00:12:15] years for a pat to go through so I predict it will be a big pat and battle in this sport coming up shortly. Yeah I mean it's already started to be fairly know a do a tone on the booms and all

[00:12:30] that kind of stuff and it seems like companies have found a way around it but initially that's the reason why only do a tone had a boom wing because there was a pat and on it at first and I

[00:12:41] mean you guys now have a boom I think right so how how do you go ahead how did you get around that? Yeah so yeah well that's totally fun yeah so there when you understand how to read patents you

[00:12:52] can you can you can under you know look at what they actually file and you can break that apart but everything is basically is goes to claim one there's a primary plane in a pat and then there's

[00:13:06] all these follow-on claims so as long as you don't frame John claim one you're usually fine so you just have to look at what that was and I believe that one they didn't have an inflatable

[00:13:17] strut so it was a yeah but then there's lots of other patents coming through on handle systems so our ourselves and certainly do a tone unsure how lots of patents so so the handle system on the

[00:13:34] wings is turning out to be a bit like the safety system in kiteboarding where there was some big big pat and battles fought over the pushaway release in kiteboarding so

[00:13:47] anyway it'll all work out it'll be fine in the end but it is interesting to see yeah it'd be nice if because in kiteboarding now that pushaway system has become pretty much standard and all the

[00:13:59] systems are almost the same and be nice if we can get to that point with a winging where you know that the handles are basically all the same and so you can you know have companies making really

[00:14:10] nice carbon handles and stuff like that and you can bring it back and forth kind of like things you know for when surfing and stuff like that but yeah I think it's gonna take a little while still

[00:14:18] we can yeah well we agree with that by the way and what what happened in with in kite surfing is there's an ISO standard now for the pushaway release so if you want to sell kite surfing bar

[00:14:33] into a kite school in Europe for the kite school to get liability insurance they have to use an ISO standard product so all of the brands now have pushaway releases so you notice that you know

[00:14:47] core had a twist which was excellent product but just the whole industry got together to decide let's just do pushaway there's not really that type of safety issue right now with wings it's

[00:15:00] not like you're getting hurled but I think perhaps ease of like you say an interchangeing handle that could definitely be something so a bit like ski boot bindings where you can use any

[00:15:12] any pair of boots on any set of skis and bindings so maybe something like that will come we have our matrix handle system is like that and you know it's certainly if we share that

[00:15:28] IP with other brands they can you know use our spacing use our handle spacing and we could you could start to buy a handle from a different brand and put it on an ocean ocean or wing that

[00:15:41] could see that happening yeah okay okay um did you want to kind of delve into a little bit maybe the v1 that came out for ocean rodeo and just see are you able to share maybe some of the

[00:15:55] the insights and stuff what what you found quickly while developing that what was going wrong what was going right what that kind of thing sure yeah so with the with the uh can't they're sorry

[00:16:06] with the cops at materials we you know we wanted to see how far we could push the diameter of the tubes and mixing that with higher pressure in the tubes and that's called hoop stress so basically

[00:16:23] your you know you've got flation PSI the smaller you make it to the more more pressure you need to get the same stiffness and so what we did was we we absolutely pushed the diameter of the

[00:16:39] the struts and the leading edges down as far as we could using our you know most up to date um a little materials um and that was that was really interesting process we've also done that with our

[00:16:53] kites so you start to learn the different and it turns out that diameter does trump um it does trump stiffer materials like you can get much more stiffness by and you can by getting more

[00:17:09] air pressure in there for example in a stiffer fabric so that was something and and I think pretty much every other brand is played around with this as well so there's a real fine line we

[00:17:20] we pushed it all the way in right now I think our leading edge tubes are about a third third less in circumference then you would see with a traditional background wing so that's that's great aerodynamics you're using less material so it's lighter plus the composites are already half

[00:17:39] the weight so so that was a big thing and then tensioning of the canopy is another one how you know how how is the ocean real healing looks so clean and nicely tensioned and that's

[00:17:53] that took a lot of work by Ross you know and it's just a lot of really interesting tensioning of the airframe and how the canopy reacts um and then and then of course we're moving

[00:18:05] into composite canopy materials right now which you'll see coming out from a very very soon and literally within a month they'll be the first Lulef canopy products out there and and again they're you're dealing with materials that react completely differently than the

[00:18:21] the satation polyester rips stops it's very stretchy stretchy mm now we've got these materials that don't move like they're they just don't move so both it's pretty fun and their lighter and

[00:18:32] stronger those things yeah there's a help at all that helps the ton and we're super stoked to see kind of that new next wave of materials come out I know Tom and I have talked about it we like

[00:18:46] to geek out on it a little bit and stuff and to see what's coming down the pipe because the first main wave of wings for v1s and everything it was the canopy's with stretch relatively

[00:18:56] and there were certain spots on those wings that would herniate or handles would blow off or so it's been cool to see those those big transitions from first to second to kind of even

[00:19:08] third year and so we are looking forward to seeing what's going to come out with all these different ones of materials yeah so what we're finding on also on the wings side like we've

[00:19:20] you know durability is huge so the wings take a bigger beating than than kind to and especially just coming in contact with the hydrifl so the other nice thing I don't know about you but I

[00:19:34] pretty much rip depending on the conditions I put a hole in my canopy especially in the serve I'd say every time I go into breaking serve I rip my canopy to something happens sounds better yeah yeah if it's if it's big enough that that's basically the game and

[00:19:50] unfortunately for me every time it's an epic session I end up tearing a wing in half and it's kind of not that fun no exactly so these new canopies are are really exciting because you

[00:20:03] literally can throw your wing I don't want people to do this but I mean you could lay your wing on top or hit your wing and even if you did manage to puncture through it's not

[00:20:13] going to propagate so you can continue your session with the with a slice the other nice thing is that they're they're all heat fusible so with it literally with a ski iron you can repair

[00:20:27] this and put a patch on in your back on the water so so we really worked on this durability of the canopy service ability and then of course blatters are the next big one and everybody's had

[00:20:41] problems with blatters at the beginning of of citing and it's not it's not that there was anything wrong with the blatters it was just learning how customers handled the products so what

[00:20:52] what we all learned was you know kite borders lay their kite down on the beach they hook a line to it and they pump it up so the the product is is a nerd it's just laying out and you pump it up

[00:21:07] waders especially new ones will hold it by going by the handle they'll hold the pump and then they'll pump it and while they're pungent shaking the blatters down inside the airframe and as they pump up the blatters are pinching and doing all kinds of weird things so

[00:21:22] so you know the first year of our wing anyway and you'll notice that there's all kinds of supportive strings and things like that now on wings and that was all as as we learned from what

[00:21:34] customers were doing so yeah it's just interesting how things evolve what do we do and I'm really curious because we started talking about allula and new material and stuff like that we see a lot of other brands coming out of what their own kind of you know background

[00:21:52] alternatives to materials like with kiba and we even all that kind of stuff so what makes all the different those materials yeah good question so basically the the world makes composite materials there's the who keep a tight materials there's coobin fiber which became DSM composites

[00:22:16] so essentially what they do that there's a core fiber in those materials it's very very strong it's called ultra high molecular weight polyethylene and that's a a miracle invention and nothing sticks to it that's the problem it is there's no glue that sticks to it there's just

[00:22:42] really no way of making a laminate with it so what has been done in the past and all of our competitors do they'll they'll have to mix in a ratio of a different type of fiber for

[00:22:58] some polyester or something like that so it might be a blend of you know 60% ultra high molecular weight 40% a different fiber that might accept a glue and then what they do is they support all that

[00:23:13] because ultra high molecular weight is very very slippery with it if it's not supported with some sort of a film or something it'll it's just like fishing net it just slippery slides all over the

[00:23:25] place so then the video is they'll blonde a supporting film to it so that right now so what and what that does is you're you're dealing with typically at least two or three different types

[00:23:40] of polymers type of plastics so you might be using a mylar which is a pet film polyethylene terrifying light you'll be using ultra low-to-weight PE core and then the glue which is who knows

[00:23:56] what that is so some sort of glue that they developed what allula is because we didn't know anything about that process we didn't completely different and that's that's what are into what your properties all about we we have figured out how to it's called fusion bonding so we're

[00:24:14] bonding these layers of the molecular level and it's very difficult to do that so you've got to use it it's you know heat's involved obviously but if you're you know if you're ever taken a piece of

[00:24:27] kite line or rope and you try to heat it and you know put a flame on it or something what happens to it it instantly shrinks up into nothing so nobody's ever figured out how to do what we've done

[00:24:40] so what do we mean what we do is we use molecular bonding we try our best to use all the same polymer group so that the materials are recyclable this is really a big deal for us where

[00:24:55] you know we're not 100% there yet but all of our new materials coming up called aerosacs they're all a single polymer group fully recyclable at the end of of their life cycle and and that's also

[00:25:08] brand new to the world really nobody else is doing this and not it's not even just a story so we're actually able to take these scraps and basically it's a loop so we're already producing starting producer first recycled product which is a fiberboard which is quite exciting so

[00:25:29] anyhow so we don't so it's a little bit more about that that's really interesting because as you're saying that's unique nobody else uses their scraps like that nobody else can use an old citer and all the

[00:25:40] way so you're able to take all of the aluminum material or the new materials that are coming out and I guess melt them down or something to that effect and remake new material about it exactly so

[00:25:52] pretty little scrap I think we're you know when we produce we can produce up to 50 meter long sections which is also quite unique some of you know some can can produce only

[00:26:07] I forget which one I do but some of the brands can only do about seven meters long it's hard to make this stuff so anyway we can do quite quite long sections but our our usage of the material

[00:26:17] out of our rolls is like it's over 99% so we've got very very little waste so that any waste on the production can be chopped up because it's all single polymer and then turned into our first

[00:26:34] product that we're working on is this fiberboard and uses for that it's quite interesting back it ended up being like sidewalls for skis it could be sidewalls for twin tip typeboards it could

[00:26:48] be thermal for hand handles for wings it's it's really cool stuff we think it also has potentially some some potential in the ballistic market so we haven't properly tested that's that's a different market altogether but it's quite interesting and then end of life we haven't

[00:27:08] set this up yet but one of our big goals is because we're also working with brands of side of the wind sport market and it would do our sport is where we would like to eventually have a close

[00:27:21] mood so and of cycle and of life cycle products can be you know returned and disassembled and we can get those materials back because because we can use something to make new products

[00:27:34] is really cool so we want we want the back let's have that we're few years off from that whole cycle but it's coming one of our products that we're about to launch you could actually just

[00:27:45] recycle with your milk cart you're plastic milk jokes so that's another exciting one so you can just take it to the recycled depot cool because that's one thing Tom and I we've talked about before

[00:27:59] right it was a little bit of the end of life kind of staged because we were going through equipment relatively quickly but it's cool to see that there's an innovation coming for that

[00:28:08] yeah and you right now you cannot recycle background it all goes to landfill you can recycle polyester ripped off you can recycle a pea bladder so that's something that is one good thing

[00:28:20] that's we've got to go for so okay and I think it's beyond end of life products as well I think when we're talking to use a couple episodes back you mentioned all of the warranty

[00:28:32] stuff that he repairs and the buy-busters and stuff like that there's a lot of companies I don't notice a lot of people listening know this but a lot of companies when you warranty say a board or a

[00:28:41] wing or whatever you actually need to destroy it that's part of the warranty process is you destroying the product and you getting a new replacement product and that's really a company policy because there's some companies that decide to sell the product that are due straight some

[00:28:58] companies decide to repair it and then you know give you the repair price whatever so it's really a company policy and I think that it's nice to see companies taking responsibility for warranty issues without destroying the year because often you're destroying brand new gear that could totally

[00:29:16] be used though I just need to repair. Yeah so that's that's true so we just actually launched our rewrite program I don't know if you've seen that which is it's going really well actually so what

[00:29:28] we're doing is if there's a demo kite or a warranty you know damage product we're we're getting those back and what we're doing is we're fixing those up and if they're sellable and decent enough

[00:29:44] shape we actually sell we're trying to keep our products going as long as possible it's probably ultimately for business maybe not the smartest move but I think you know are you an intermediate level wing foiler looking for an epic adventure this winter if yes I suggest you

[00:30:05] reserve your spot for the wing foiler expedition hosted by Agua Salada Baja California Sir Adventures this coming January this trip is going to be absolutely amazing it includes ocean front accommodations

[00:30:20] airport pick up and drop off fresh locally made food and snacks created by a local artisan al chef yoga massages five days of wing foiling and the best part over 100 kilometers of boat assisted

[00:30:35] just imagine the freedom and peace of mind that will provide I look will be one of your wing foiler coaches on this trip so be a great time to know the enjoy the downwinders but also ask

[00:30:47] questions to approve your writing our trip will take you on different parts of love and tana and baja that you would not otherwise be able to access without a boat to learn more visit winglifepodcast.com

[00:30:58] and click on trips in the main navigation menu once again visit winglifepodcast.com we click on trips in the menu with only eight spots available we know it's going to book up fast

[00:31:11] so we recommend that you act quickly I'll see you there the disposable we need to start using our products longer and recycling as much as possible so anyway that's the first step in that

[00:31:20] we're already doing that we just launched out about two months ago and products that we can't resell this is really great we have a local company here it's a little bit of a call

[00:31:34] I can't remember they must have my head any how they recycle we take all of our used kites and wings there and they are turning them into bags and backpacks we just don't

[00:31:46] eat them for free and you can go to the app right about that yeah you go to our real there's a few companies around the world doing this but these ladies are doing a wonderful job

[00:31:55] if you go to our real ride program you'll see at the bottom line and buy ocean rodeo wing turned into a beautiful backpack that's even a lulin there they've got some lulus graphs it's really cool

[00:32:06] what they're doing so oh nice yeah we ask everybody this and kind of because you did help start this forest and rodeo what was your first foil ride like and what did that feel like and

[00:32:18] what did it feel like they ride that first wing and what did they conjure up same feelings this citing all kind of curious foil ride on a wing or foil ride on other sports like citing or

[00:32:30] yeah just maybe your first foil ride and then maybe we can throw the wing at after sure yeah so my I I had a hard time learning how to hydrify well I had my first hydrify oil in 2003

[00:32:42] from Carafino which was the very I think they were the first brand to do kind of foil boards there I think was a tallian brand and our British distributor was

[00:32:55] was selling them and he came to visit us in Canada here and I went to knit that lake which here from above killed myself there I couldn't do it and then I tried it at our local spot at home

[00:33:05] and I got tangled up in the kelp with the hydrify and I obviously never tried it again after that I just saw this is ridiculous I should have stuck with it though and then I tried the next

[00:33:19] time I actually got going was in Mexico I don't know 2015 I had from no BLA I had a no BLA hydrified board and it was I could I was like the walk of shame I couldn't go downwind I can't

[00:33:34] get stuck up when it's like it could bear off I can't wait to go out so I had to walk back oh the opposite I was so tough anyway so that's how I started and then that was on a

[00:33:45] kite I'm guessing yeah kite foiling so I'm not a very good kite foiler I love kite foiling in lightwind like I absolutely love it so winning is we haven't quite got the gear dialed down yet to go

[00:33:59] as fast and efficient as you can you know a 14 or sauna on a race hydrify I mean you can go so fast and it's so fun I just love that so that's kind of where I do most of my

[00:34:13] kitey now is is just a lightweight I love it but winging yeah like I said I bought actually from Raphael cells he set me up with my first hydrify setup which I still used today I

[00:34:28] still use the F1 gear and I also with till overlay it do a tone I've got some of the do a tone boards and wings that are hydrified equipment and the big difference now is I just can't

[00:34:43] I believe how great the hydrified designs are compared to so easy to use compared to what we had they're fantastic so it's a great time to get into winging for sure like it's it's nice to

[00:34:58] have something predictable and you know not jumping out of the water all the time yeah totally it's a really good point you're making there because I also started not quite as early as you in 2003 but

[00:35:12] fairly early on would you know early sing shot stuff and stuff like that and nearly Neil Pridesceph on the one-surfoil front and men is there ever a difference compared to those foils which aren't

[00:35:23] even that long ago you know they're talking six years ago seven years ago and it's changed so much it's so much easier now so much safer so much from more user friendly and stuff's not breaking

[00:35:35] as much anymore either which is nice is this what is there just blowing up yeah and you talk about the wild factor for me so they I think the big wild factor for me where we live in Victoria here

[00:35:48] we have fantastic shop in front of the city it's a very title area and we get these you know west winds and if you get the tie moving into the into the wind we get these beautiful sort of

[00:36:03] waste to shoulder high standing chop and I knew I remember catching my first sort of chop and I was so surprised at how much energy there was in a wind chop I didn't even know it was there

[00:36:19] and we all surf here up in Corral and so I know what I know what the feeling is to get in the pocket on our beautiful really powerful wave you know with 50 other people though they're trying

[00:36:30] to catch the same wave surfing and all of a sudden I'm like oh my gosh I've got the same sensation on a knee high to waist high chop I've got the same acceleration down the line I felt

[00:36:43] like I was surfing and that's like wow okay wing-foiling to be able to turn the wing power off get that foil position in the you know the top section where the energy is and and have the whole

[00:36:56] ocean to play and it's like an open surf break that's that's what winging is for me for sure and that's what we yeah yeah I 100% agree that's exactly what got me on winging as well

[00:37:09] I was living in Montreal at the time and kind of the same as you guys there's no waves or maybe little tiny wind swell if it's blowing like 35 knots and the second that you get on a you know

[00:37:22] even on a kiteboard you could kind of slash it a little bit I guess but you're mostly just riding flat water pretending to turn on a wave whereas on a foil you're actually using the energy

[00:37:32] of the wave you're actually surfing the wave and as you say it's you know it feels three times as big as it is and three times is fun yeah that's really cool that really makes it you know

[00:37:45] surfing accessible to people that live inland or people that live in places where there's not good wind on way it's because it's not everywhere you can find that that's really nice. I love the

[00:37:57] fact that you can be on a you know an 85 centimeter mast and you're on you know maybe a 1 meter high chalk but you add those two together your two meters up now looking down only small chalk it

[00:38:10] feels like you're on a head high dropping in on a head high wave it's so fun that it sort of accentuates everything and makes mediocre conditions really really fun so yeah and there's that

[00:38:23] projection you were talking about as well right because on any sort of board regardless you know surfboard, when surfboard, sub, whatever you need some energy in the wave to get over all that friction that you're having in board because there's so little friction and because there's so much

[00:38:38] energy under the water that you can harness with a hydrophilic you really get that feeling of the wave pushing you forward and the acceleration that you get out of a much, much bigger way otherwise.

[00:38:51] Yeah it's awesome and yeah I really really enjoying what the GWA are starting to do there I don't even saw the last event they're starting to push sort of in the waves dropping you know

[00:39:04] you're not supposed to touch the back handle which I think is quite fun and what I'd like to see them do them was in the wave riding is start to have events at the gorge for example we'd be just

[00:39:16] pure chop, wave riding events and really see that develop because you know most most people are in the chop right now I think can get out of the crowds and the surf line up you're not particularly

[00:39:27] welcome and a great surf break with a hydrophilic so yeah it's very exciting great future ahead yeah especially if you have a wing or a tighter sail in your hands and you're going to the surf

[00:39:38] spots they're not happy about that. I mean I get them right like we want to be sitting around waiting for waves while you have somebody beside you catching all the waves because they have a better tool

[00:39:48] exactly. Yeah that's really cool and I think it's you know I've kind of personally got into a little bit the same kind of mindset that I have with when surfing where I'm always looking for

[00:40:03] you know like really good sight off winds and you know more powerful waves and all that kind of stuff and I just might add a session here a couple of days ago where it was just chop you know

[00:40:14] like just like not even knee high and I forgot how much fun that is like if you have a little bit of wind in your sail you can really have fun on just that which is amazing like it's it's so

[00:40:23] much more accessible yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely right should how does it feel to like you may be looking back as when you started this did you ever think that your companies would

[00:40:36] grow to what they are did you think that that your product would have such an impact on people's lives like if we look at water sports and wind sports like they can change in and completely

[00:40:49] amplify and bring so much joy to people. I know it's a bit introspective but have you ever thought about that kind of aspect of your job? Yeah it's funny it's I've had other

[00:41:02] people like it's funny because when you're doing this all day long for so long you're just you know super it is ultra competitive you know and it's it's like any business where we're scrapping

[00:41:16] everyday trying to stay ahead of our competitors and so you do forget what you're actually doing and what we're doing is I think you're right I think we're introducing people to the wind and

[00:41:30] the waves and that lifestyle and it is I've seen a lot of people you know friends of just locally here that we're not into water sports or kite surfing and they've seen what

[00:41:42] I've been doing for years and years and finally you know it's a 50 years old this friend will go to Turks and Kicos and take kite surfing lessons and the next thing you know I see them and you

[00:41:54] know he's completely changed they're often Brazil to do these don't big downwinders and all they can think about as kite surfing or winged oil and you're whatever it might be so it is it is

[00:42:07] great and I think people that that do these types of sports are probably a little more responsible about the environment and looking after things and the changes we have to make in the future so

[00:42:20] yeah it's great I'm really it's fun but yeah I'm glad to hear that well especially with kelp and like we're in the ocean like when I'm in Victoria we're always at a Ross Bay or Clover Porn and

[00:42:32] stuff and you're always in the ocean so you're always looking around seeing stuff and I've got caught in that beautiful kelp so many times I'm freaking out thinking it's an orca but no it's just

[00:42:44] but it is nice like like for me it completely changed my life it gave me such a sense of joy and passion and purpose to learn something and then bring all those aspects into into everyday life

[00:43:00] I was curious to see your vantage point on that and I completely understand of running a business you have to do things and it is competitive and sometimes it's nice just to stick your head out

[00:43:10] for a few seconds to breathe at least yeah exactly but you know the the other thing is and a lot of times people turn their passion when they turn their passion into into a business they don't

[00:43:23] do the sport anymore or they get tired of it and I don't know I've been completely opposite I'm a I'm a maniac to get on the water I'm still like a little kid I mean I'm watching the wind

[00:43:38] everyday try to get out there and I don't care if I'm surfing or stand up paddle wording or citing or winging to me it's all just getting on the water and I do mix them up like I really do

[00:43:50] I totally I picked I picked the right tool for the day and I think that's a great way to be as well as to you know if you're hooked on hooked on citing and you know don't be afraid to

[00:44:06] give winging a shot or you know something else it's it's really great to be be well rounded and sort of open up your eyes to other sports because quite often those experiences

[00:44:18] of being a good surfer or a good take order will come back or a great win surfer when surfing especially really helps wing-foiling for sure that's there's no doubt about that so yeah it's just great to mix it up like like time you started Winster for Lincra

[00:44:36] yeah that was my first experience and I thought it was when surfing yeah and that was like especially the style of of when surf-foiling I was doing when I was on surf-foiling it wasn't really

[00:44:48] that three-ride style it was more kind of like strapless and smaller sales a little bit bigger foils and the foils a little bit further forward so that was really getting pretty close to

[00:45:01] you know surf-style let's call it and I think there's there's ways of doing that and making it really really interesting but to me the second that winging came out it was just like yep this is

[00:45:13] uh this is what I've been looking for for a lot of conditions but I do I do like what you say about choosing the right tool for the right day because there's a lot of different conditions there's a

[00:45:25] lot of different spots and not every sport well no sport is perfect so you know there's definitely conditions in which I prefer to be one surfing there's conditions in which I prefer to be

[00:45:36] tight surf-foiling conditions where you know something is really the right tool so it's nice to have all those different tools and your garage you can and it's nice to learn new things and as you

[00:45:47] say there's a huge amount of cross all the skills you're learning and any sport are super applicable that's why you like all the pro one surfers and pro ciders and all that that maybe came pro

[00:45:59] one you're super quickly and they're all pretty good at the other sport as well you know there's so many I GUITO and all those freestyle guys are all super good at citing as well and and air

[00:46:10] time is a really good one surfers well so it's a great it's all related it's all interconnected exactly Laramon there you go exactly exactly yeah that's good fun talk a little bit about your

[00:46:22] team riders and see where they're at yeah for sure well in on the weing side of course it's Matt this geophram france and he's really our our only team rider and I tell you I've got a

[00:46:35] good neck and pick in the right ones holy cow I couldn't believe it so Matt is right when we started developing our wings we put out a little post that we were looking for some team riders

[00:46:47] and and Matt is came along and he was just actually getting into winging himself but I noticed on his resume that he was he had been world youth when surfing champion and it's like okay he's

[00:47:00] gonna he's gonna be good so we grab Matt this and sure enough he is I mean the guy is a bullet and nobody can touch him around the race course so really happy with Matt this and he's the

[00:47:15] fun thing about about him is he's using totally stock wings like he's not even using hard handle see she's in soft handle still he's on our six meter primary is what he's using to race

[00:47:27] and we actually designed that wing two years ago we haven't changed it we've upgraded the materials a little bit but he still the last of the race just finished a couple of days ago in in La Cat

[00:47:40] France he's straight bullets you know took out everybody and then before that was the worlds the new course racing world championship same thing he cleaned up there so yeah really excited with

[00:47:55] Mattis and then we've got a young man river who's in Tareefa he's very young and he's he's I think he's 16 so he's okay he's just doing the local Spanish scene right now but we'll see how things go

[00:48:14] but he he's the type of athlete that could end up whether it's with us or another brand I don't know it's hard to know when they're young like that but he'll definitely be somebody on the

[00:48:26] pro tour soon I think so we're keeping an eye on him and then of course on the kite side we've got a great team as well so we've got heel fluke who's was male rider of the year last year

[00:48:42] trick of the year and then to double loop and then of course my son who's fifth overall in the world right now on the surf tour yeah that's a normal rider yeah he's actually winning as well people don't

[00:48:54] know that but he is he's actually working on he's in a mechanical engineer so you know he's see that you know he does all the handle parts and cool that's all him this is this is kind of cool

[00:49:09] too I'll show you this yes sure so that's a new part that Reese designed he's I got his first patant on this this is a quick release leash for wing foiling and surfing so it's uh oh okay that's coming out

[00:49:25] in the next month so you'll see these popping up everywhere so how that works is you pull less here and it separates oh well that's right front so there's a hot you do so it's really handy

[00:49:44] for winging and surfing and kite surfing or are you using a leash to reset it it's on a swivel you just push and you're back in again so we yeah so you're using that as a a wrist leash or

[00:50:01] off you can wrap that around a harness or a waist leash the swivel is great because your your leash lines don't get twisted up surprising when you use this if you used to using a leash

[00:50:13] without a swivel off the cuff you'll notice a big difference right off just with a swivel so the and then the other the other thing is if you're getting tangles you know we're

[00:50:23] getting a wrap between you know maybe your board leash and your wing leash which happens pretty much to everybody it's rather than trying to unvill curl when you're on the water it's just a quick

[00:50:34] pull threaded through it snap it back in so really yeah really huge difference yeah and also launching in the surf so you definitely I don't know about you but I don't like to have

[00:50:46] if I'm having to paddle through breaking surf I don't like having my leash attached to my board with the hydrifl. So I'll just drag it behind and punch punch through with my wing

[00:50:58] flopping away back there and then once you get through it's really quick reach the the leg rope and snap it snap it on your where you're connecting it to your calf ankle your waist so I think this is

[00:51:09] going to be we're offering this to the other brands as well and I think you'll see that I guess that's going to become very much standard item in wing foiling so we'll see how that

[00:51:20] and I think even beyond that you're saying paddling out my first thought is instead of you know having your wing on your wrist and trying to paddle with that thing tugging on you you clip it

[00:51:32] to the back of your waist leash for example to use and for your board and once you get out past the break then you unclip it from there and clip it to your wrist and there you go.

[00:51:40] Yeah absolutely a lot of luck or even putting the band on your arm could be a lot easier if you don't have it connect with you like yeah absolutely so that I mean we're all

[00:51:53] this been in the development for quite a few years but they they really in citing it's great because in offshore conditions or certain certain conditions you do need to use a board leash unfortunately yeah but and the problem with that is as we'll know the worst

[00:52:09] thing that can happen is your board gets thrown into your lines so your your your ankle leash your board of now through your front lines or through your bar and that can be sooner dangerous

[00:52:20] because it throws your kite your kite loop you know big disaster so that's why it was primarily a recent then it was been there competing at places like ponta pretta those offshore conditions

[00:52:30] giant powerful waves and the pre sketchy using a leash there so that was developed on tour so there you go that's do product for winging yeah okay well very cool and I love that it's

[00:52:45] kind of a passive army right like our passive reloading so you don't need to fit over something to go in and then flip something over and then stick in and whatnot it looks so clean and easy to

[00:52:56] and that's all stainless I guess that's yeah we do all the load we have load testers and all kinds of lab equipment here's everything's everything's tested to destruction that's that's what you need yeah amazing what about for those of hole or even though it's another

[00:53:21] we have people listening all over the world now and can we talk a little bit maybe about your your home break or your favorite spot on the island that's that's not that's not protected I guess but

[00:53:32] sure international privacy yeah yeah I mean if anybody's ever had a chance to go to Tafino there's there's just it's called Chesterman's Beach and for wing foiling it's tricky but it's what you can do there is it's a bay and there's this called Frank Island there's a

[00:53:54] sandset and the break isn't that great for wing foiling in actually self-chesternins but what you can do is go into the middle of Cox Bay which is the next bay over and it's really hard to

[00:54:07] get out through the beach break at Cox Bay but on a moderately big day I wouldn't recommend doing it on a huge day because it's well get does get massive in there but you can ride these giant

[00:54:19] swells in the middle of Cox Bay this would be for an advanced winger and not even go close to where they start breaking so you're just staying on the outside but I did that first time I did that

[00:54:30] was last this time last year and my son was citing in the surf and I was just staying on the outside I tell you it was it was like riding giant mountains of water it was it was something so I

[00:54:45] that's a great air to explore and then the whole Victoria waterfront is just if you like chopper or it's like identical to riding in the garage it's just breaking chalk unfortunately we do get

[00:54:58] kelp in the summer so you gotta keep an eye open for the kelp monsters because that's not a lot of fun to get stuck in with the hydristo up so yeah and then of course all the wind machines that we

[00:55:10] have in the summer knitting that lake is flat water small chalk but if it's sunny it's going to be windy and scarantied so we've gotten it not of course China Creek is fantastic as well so yeah

[00:55:23] that's kind of it there are other surf breaks but I'm not gonna mention them no fair enough and for those people looking for ocean rodeo gear I know there's a couple schools I know that

[00:55:37] that wind rider carries your gear also strong kiteboarding carries your gear are there any other spots on Vancouver Island and then obviously your gear is everywhere else but just kind of curious for people who are coming down there yeah a cabbaro bay there's a surf shop there I

[00:55:54] think they're starting to dabble in our wings so that's right in Victoria you can always order online and you know it's more expensive usually to order online through us but you can't order online

[00:56:08] and probably I soon pick up from here but it can better to get it through a retailer and then you've you've got who else juice in the courty I believe oh yeah absolutely yeah so come on Skype repair

[00:56:23] yeah yeah and we have on the island I think that's it yeah okay yeah okay and uh yeah lots of great retailers all over the world so many of those guys are listening thank you

[00:56:36] well yeah we always like to give a shout out to those that are helping support because it being a retailer it takes a little bit of work and effort and and we do obviously

[00:56:45] appreciate them for doing their part in this whole and this whole sport as well exactly yeah yeah yeah we have a lot of listeners in Ontario and in Quebec so who who can they go to

[00:56:58] to get their wings I think 30 knots in Montreal works for us but a bit absolutely 30 knots and siloed sports you know there's there's a ton of them so of course there's Adrian Splinter

[00:57:12] and in Ottawa yeah there's a lot I should have a listen for underneath no that's okay it was just a quick little shout out to the retailers yeah like that well I think you know some exciting news

[00:57:29] for you guys then I can tell you this now but Alula Alula acquired Oshiroio okay they were separate companies so Oshiroio is in say division of Alula now and Alula is going public so yeah so it's going public so you'll be able to buy shares in Alula

[00:57:52] starting this week your IPO is next week next week on the Toronto Stock Exchange Ventures so yeah so I think we'll be the first quote winsport that started out of a win sport anyway

[00:58:07] business to go public so you'll be able to to learn all of it with sport industry by us being a public company so congratulations yeah well we'll see how it goes yeah it's really nice but yeah so it's you know the come Alula of course has

[00:58:24] you know opportunities great opportunities in win sport but also in outdoor and athletics and aerospace so we're we're starting that's why it's happening there's it's really taken off in other markets as well so should we go talk sorry talk a little bit about those markets

[00:58:40] sure no come talk a little bit about those markets because I know it's like just winsport people will think oh it's just this but there's so much more to Alula than than we ever thought yeah absolutely so we're you know I think the big the most interesting

[00:58:55] markets that are coming along are definitely in the outdoor space they're you know there's just like winging and cating when something's a lot lighter especially if you're climbing or hiking it it's just way better for the yeah for the customer so making lightweight backpacks and you know

[00:59:13] lightweight ultra strong components for the outdoor market is something we just collaborate with black diamonds if you look at our website you'll see the new it's called a vapor helmet for black

[00:59:27] diamonds so we we actually get all all the new impacts composite material on that is made by Alula so we managed to cut the weight of their helmet down I think it's like 20 20 percent so it's

[00:59:39] now the world's lightest climbing helmet but it's also got I forget the multiple times of impact protection so we we we blew the Kevlar that they were using previously right out of the water

[00:59:51] in terms of saving weight and improved impact so we're seeing products yeah products like that we're quite active in an aerospace so you'll you know pretty soon when you fly around on a bowing or you know bowing jet or

[01:00:09] oh god what you call the the ones from Europe you might be without knowing you might have some allula fabric around you so there's a lot of lot going on there okay and yeah so there's it's

[01:00:21] really interesting so being lightest strong is great and if you're moving products you know transportation anything like that where you're using energy there those types of customers are coming to us to help improve their their efficiencies so I think we're really we're really only at the

[01:00:44] start of this aren't we yeah for sure yeah and recyclability you know right now like I said the the entire world is based on manufacturing for the most part materials that are you know woven

[01:00:58] nylon's with and they put fills in them of different types of plastic so it's really really difficult like a nylon pack material that your your backpack's made out of that that's going to

[01:01:08] go on the landfill and that's the way the whole industry for the most part set up so allula is really as far as I know I think we're the only guy process out there that can make these

[01:01:20] monopolymer without blue fabrics so okay yeah so that's okay of course yeah that's so you go that's amazing and I kind of we haven't really talked about sales for sale boats but that's another huge market that could totally use these products absolutely we're active in sailing so

[01:01:41] we right now we're actually our materials are racing around the world in the ocean race so our next we're on our materials being used in some really high wear areas so you know like bulk

[01:02:00] boat ropes where the the sail goes into the mast bags that are being dragged over the decks you know things like that we're an ultra lightweight door front doors that are on the the

[01:02:14] MOCA 60s I don't even see those high speed foiling boats so we're being used on those those types of locations and plus we're we're in development in the spinnickers right now with some really

[01:02:27] really fast boats so the use typically it'll start on the high end will you know they'll see what we can do on a fast racing yacht with with stance that then it trickles down so we've been

[01:02:39] working on this project for about two years so we're definitely in say yeah yeah nice yeah I was going to say that canopy material would be phenomenal as like the code zero or something like that

[01:02:50] for people that yeah sail of code zero is kind of like a hybrid sneaker which is big balloon and the hybrid between not in my gunmore head sail so actually end recyclable that's that's the other thing

[01:03:03] no no sailcloth out there actually there is there's some out there starting to happen but all of our sailpoth material that we're producing is recyclable so that's something we're really we're stick to and for instance I know that's amazing there's so much waste in sales that you know

[01:03:23] for me I don't know and when you when you're done with the set of sales you can give it to somebody make bags out of it maybe but that's you know the only if the sales is pretty nice looking

[01:03:33] shape and it's hard to find but there's so many boats with so many sales and then don't last forever especially for racing boats that change sales really often it's really amazing to be able to recycle

[01:03:46] yeah so bonding globe that's coming up next year that's the the amoka 60s that race around a single hand it they're they have a new rule I think at least one of their sales has to be fully recyclable

[01:04:00] so we're quite excited about that so we're hopefully you know we'll definitely be on one of those boats in terms of certain components around the boat but I'm hopeful that we'll get a full sail on

[01:04:13] on one of the bonding globe boats which would be really exciting if you ever watch bondate globe or or the ocean race get a chance to check it out these guys are flying across the ocean at

[01:04:26] 20 to 30 knots day after day after day it's spectacular hydrophobic that's so yeah so actually ocean races on right now there I think they got one late laughter water two legs left okay Tom you guys will have to talk you're gonna you could have the fastest boat in Martinique

[01:04:46] yeah I know I mean I am actually looking for a code zero so I'm like man this could be such a cool thing but it's probably a little bit out of my racing budget

[01:04:55] well you're in Martinique I love Martinique oh wow yeah it's a fortifrost fortifrost the wind blows out of the valley there yeah there's a huge funneling effect there and you get nice little swell or

[01:05:11] chop more like there and then the whole windward side there's a bunch of surf spots and yeah that's one of the Caribbean that's what they're Martinique local say and I can't argue with them

[01:05:23] it's really good yeah exactly oh awesome well here Richard if anybody wants to reach out to you what's the easiest way for them to do that and maybe website as well yeah probably through

[01:05:38] the website just the info at alula.com or ocean rodeo and it it's it will make it's eventually it'll make it's way to me okay and I do believe we have phone numbers on there full school

[01:05:53] fair enough there's nothing wrong with that yeah so yeah we're we're pretty good we've we're normal business we operate normal hours and there's actually staff here and people running around

[01:06:02] so yeah okay so there you go sounds good yeah well hey Richard I want to say thanks a lot for joining us today thanks for giving some of that insight and sharing that journey of what brought you to

[01:06:13] here really appreciate it well thank you for for listening to me and having the onion show it's great and really appreciate you promoting help promoting us and it's great thank you so much absolutely

[01:06:24] oh you're welcome we're in a hope you have a great day okay see you guys bye bye everybody thanks for joining Tom and I in this episode we hope you enjoyed it and we'll see you next time