Andrew joins us on this episode to talk about winging, KT, Quatro, Goya and his passion for watersports which came from growing up in Rhode Island with his dad, who was an avid windsurfer.
We also chat about the new Ginxu, downwind boards, the 2023 KT wings with rigid handles and more. Enjoy this KT-jammed-packed episode.
Enjoy!
[00:00:00] Welcome to The Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing-foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. I think we're good to go. Andrew, thanks a lot for joining us tonight, man. We're stoked to chat foils, kiti, all of it.
[00:00:26] Happy to be here, like to hop on a few guys. Awesome, so get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself Andrew. Yeah, so I'm 32 years old, I grew up in Rhode Island right on the water there.
[00:00:43] Growing up surfing and sailing, race competitively sailing for most of my life through high school in college and was lucky enough my dad was a big wind surfer, so I grew up with a shed full of toys
[00:00:58] and learned to wind surfing at a really young age, was immediately hooked on it. Didn't have a lot of friends that were into it, so it was usually me and my dad and his buddies out on the water
[00:01:09] And then after college, a couple years after college, I moved out west for what I thought was going to be a winter to Jackson Hole, Wyoming that turned into seven years living out there.
[00:01:22] While I was living in the mountains there met a bunch of good friends including a couple guys who would head down to Baja on the off season.
[00:01:31] So I started getting on the Baja train, I didn't have any wind surfing gear with me out in the mountains, so eventually converted the kiteboarding,
[00:01:41] picked up a kite, set a kite gear, learned to kite on my first Baja trip and then stuck with it in Jackson is actually some super fun lake sailing that you can do there and snowkiting.
[00:01:54] So I went down the kite train for a number of probably I don't know four or five years and then summer of 2020 as COVID hit.
[00:02:05] My girlfriend and I moved back to Rhode Island from Jackson for the summer and I got back there and all my buddies are like, alright we're all kite foiling now.
[00:02:15] So you gotta learn to kite foil. So they gave me a cheap liquid force set up and stuck me on a board that someone had outgrown and I started trying to learn how to kite foil and I'd wind surffoiled once before at that point.
[00:02:27] My dad had just gotten a wind surffoiling set up. So I was trying to wind surffoil, I was trying to kite foil, I wasn't good at either of them and where we grow up sailing.
[00:02:38] It's a small little yakuab with like a little graffy one area and then like a short rocky beach for a launch.
[00:02:45] So it's really bad for launching kites and in the summertime they close all of the beaches to kiting. You really can't kite anywhere in Rhode Island in the summertime.
[00:02:54] So we're trying to figure out what we're going to do and how we're going to do this whole kite foiling thing through the summer. And then one day a neighbor showed up with a wing and that was it.
[00:03:06] It was like all right. Screw kiting, screw wind surffoiling got on the wing program and went from like being scared shit with kite foiling and exploding you know at 30 knots and wind surffoiling after two years not being able to hit my jibes to getting on the wing and within a couple weeks.
[00:03:25] You know cruising back and forth and both directions foiling was able to hit my jibes and was just blown away without easy with launch the light winds you could sail in and since then been totally hooked on totally hooked on winging.
[00:03:39] Oh, nice man. Yeah, it's a heck of a transition from like regular kite regular wind surfing even when surffoiling. How did you find how did you find your like your your first ever kite foils session like what was that like.
[00:03:54] It ended up with me with my kite in the water swimming it to shore and then diving off of a dock to chase my board is a drifted down current hoping that I would not drown and get my gear back.
[00:04:09] It was super hard it was super terrified you know is out there overpowered on a kite because I wanted to make sure I got up and I was never I was a decent kite boarder but I wasn't epic.
[00:04:20] So it was like still struggling with the kite and then yeah get on the foil them like all of a sudden you're up and riffing and trying to slow the thing down and just so hard to control where it's like winging it's just so intuitively using.
[00:04:33] Oh yeah and how big of a foil was that you tried to learn or that you learned kite foiling on. Kite flooring was on a like I think it was like a 1200 square centimeter. Liquid force foil one of their original like weight kite foils.
[00:04:52] Okay, okay but it was still it's still crazy fast like my brother is a good fighter and he started I think he got himself a race foil but not knowing is a right for racefall so it's like a 75.
[00:05:04] Oh yeah and yeah that's where I didn't go down that path that's real scary that the friends that I've gotten pretty hurt doing that.
[00:05:12] Oh yeah like he took him 10 hours to just get on it and some me I was on like a 15 50 on my wing foil and I which it's the first time that I've actually beat him at something so I was doing laps around him and stuff.
[00:05:26] So how was your first wing foil session then so actually you had a little bit of experience right, kiting and then when I had a little bit of experience and a neighbor had a.
[00:05:38] Had a couple of out of foil set up so as they would get out behind the boat and do a little more toe foiling get get a little more comfortable.
[00:05:45] Luckily a guy in in the neighborhood I grew up in had bought a 150 meter nashboard and a 2000 square centimeter fanatic foil.
[00:05:56] And he was a bigger dude kind of similar to me and he bought it he had tried it a couple of times and we're struggling with it so kind of ended up just living in another neighbor's basement and kind of became the neighborhood.
[00:06:07] The neighborhood bicycle that got passed around as we all learned to wing which is great so I got to get on like a big stable board big stable foil.
[00:06:16] And really figure it out for those those first times and then after that ended up taking an old win surfing board chopping the nose and the tail off of it and my buddy and I glass some foil tracks into the bottom and made a little 90 meter board. Nice.
[00:06:33] Yeah that sounds like a perfect set up to pass around and learn on that's awesome. Yeah it's great it's still going still teaching people. Nice. And so once you that's an interesting way to go about it I guess there wasn't many wing boards around when you were.
[00:06:51] Yeah it was super hard to find.
[00:06:56] And at that point I mean it was you know still new and expensive it was hard to get here and it's like alright you know is this winging thing actually gonna is it really going to be a thing or is this just a fast you know I don't know really going to like it.
[00:07:10] And I was trying to buy a board I was trying to buy like a three in one board because I was still win for for a little bit and I knew I wanted the sub foil and so I was trying to find you know a bigger board with a mass track that I could still do all the things.
[00:07:24] And I was on a weight list at wind dance to get a board and didn't know when that was going to come.
[00:07:30] But like alright I have this broken wind surfer here got buddies with you know good graphing skills so let's just make a little chop shop and do it and then I can spend money on a foil and a wing and go that route and so.
[00:07:44] Nice that probably ended up being the right move because it's the boards change so much from that first generation.
[00:07:53] Yeah, we have to be fair the wings and photos that as well but nice and so once you got on that setup I guess that gave you quite a bit of room to improve compared to that big setup here on.
[00:08:08] Yeah, it was really nice to get down to a smaller board ended up picking up some flingshot gear. I had the well as I liked the hover glide 84 like a 2000 square centimeter foil and my dad had the the 76 like the 1500.
[00:08:27] You know, kind of a compatible foil range picked up to the sling wing V2s with my first setup. You know, was able to really kick off the learning curve and have some fun.
[00:08:42] Yeah, that's great. I mean, I think we actually both of us learned on exactly those oils on the yeah. In the 84 and the uh, and the 76 and eventually the 99 came around as well which is a better idea of the 84 as that first as the first one.
[00:08:58] But yeah, those were kind of ahead of their time and she liked they worked super well. And obviously now there's so many oils that work well on the market but those were definitely.
[00:09:10] Yeah, they got a lot of that one at the right price point so it was key totally. Oh yeah, this distiller. Yeah, they pushed their give a lot but. Miss maybe for our for out into home. How did you start doing stuff with KT.
[00:09:28] So let's see that was yeah 2020 was I picked up foiling 20 that winner and summer 2021 I was in Rhode Island again. And we're going back and forth between Rhode Island and Jackson Hole trying to kind of figure out what was happening in the pandemic.
[00:09:46] And ended up moving out to hood river in the fall of 21. Kind of just happened to work out life are you an intermediate level wing foiler looking for an epic adventure this winter.
[00:10:04] If yes, I suggest you reserve your spot for the wing foil expedition hosted by Agua Salada.
[00:10:10] Baja California sir adventures this coming January this trip is going to be absolutely amazing it includes ocean front accommodations airport pick up and drop off fresh locally made food and snacks created by a local artisan al chef yoga massages five days of wing foiling and the best part over 100 kilometers
[00:10:33] of boat assisted downwinders just imagine the freedom and peace in mind that will provide I look will be one of your wing foil coaches on this trip.
[00:10:42] So via great time to know the enjoy the downwinders, but also ask questions to approve your writing our triple take you on different parts of love and tana and bahaha that you would not otherwise be able to access without a boat to learn more visit winglife podcast calm and click on trips in the main navigation menu once again visit winglife pod.
[00:11:02] We click on trips in the menu with only eight spots available we know it's going to book up fast so we recommend that you act quickly I'll see there.
[00:11:12] File wise for my girlfriend and I to make the move here to the PMW moved out here without a job but knew that I wanted to be here I'd always heard of the gorge I didn't hear once before but it never sailed here but had heard the myth in the lore for my dad and all is when surfing.
[00:11:31] But he's through it all stand a ton of time out here so as always the place I knew I wanted to be and winging really kind of gave me that extra push of like I decided I wanted to be really good at this for and this was the place to do that.
[00:11:46] So moved out here without a job and ended up being able to get a job of KT they're hiring for the North American sales rep position.
[00:11:58] So I hopped on with them a year ago and started getting to work with this great brand and writing some of the best gear out there it's an amazing. Oh well man that's that's a really exciting story into that. Yeah it was a lucky one for sure.
[00:12:18] How did you meet the how do you meet the team like were you just happened to be there kind of a lot of our stories on here like we've talked to some athletes now from all around the world and they tell us their stories of how they got to where they get.
[00:12:29] That's part of what we really like to hear because sometimes there's people at home who might be working jobs and they have a dream and they're not sure how to connect those dots. So I'd love to kind of hear hear more about from you.
[00:12:42] Yeah, to say that working in the one industry is a lot. No it's a super hard job. I got really lucky. I mean I was I was job hunting hard you know looking at everything under the sun.
[00:12:58] You know from cold calling sales rep positions with anything I was I was broke and looking for a job and. And it up seeing they had posted the job on like the George Winser first Facebook page.
[00:13:14] So just kind of you know happened to see the job and immediately you know sent my information and was able to link up with Vicki Abbott who runs the North American operation she's here in Hood River and.
[00:13:27] Just was able you know we were able to get in right as they posted it I was just on it networking and job hunting and was able to operate in so really just.
[00:13:36] Good timing. Good luck and you know it put in a lot of hard work job hunting before that but the pieces just aligned for me.
[00:13:44] Oh yeah, lining like passion and work and then being with a company that you care about their values and they're all of that is is a special connection for sure. Yeah, it really really worked out well. Nice.
[00:13:57] Can you tell us a little bit about KT like there's a lot that they're obviously boards phenomenal like some absolutely phenomenal boards their wings now I just received. The V third their second like 2023 wings with the hard handles pretty pretty blown away by those as well.
[00:14:15] But let's say hey can you tell us a little bit about just KT is a brand and why you do enjoy. Yeah, blue.
[00:14:23] Yeah, so KT is stands for Keith to bull he's the shaper for the brand and the story really starts with Quattro win surfing which was Keith and.
[00:14:39] The goi brothers Francisco and Laura and a couple other original partners who are all pro win surfers back in the 90s and they needed to make better wave boards.
[00:14:50] They're all salinocupa and win surfing was you know in it's hey, day really booming and they wanted to make better wave boards so they started to brand on Maui. With four partners called Quattro and started making wave boards and that then expanded into goi a win surfing.
[00:15:09] Where they launched a full win surfing line of sales, mass, boom everything and goi boards as well and then in the mid 2000s they launched KT surfing. You know, specifically under Keith's brand but within the same organization so that became the surf brand.
[00:15:32] And they make boards now for you know, Kylenny Ian Walsh a bunch of the pros on tour and really launched that the high on surf brand under KT and then when foiling came around.
[00:15:49] We had boards kind of under different brands we were making surf foil boards under KT and then started making wing foil boards under Quattro because I was also the sub brand so we thought maybe the bigger wing boards would fit under Quattro and then.
[00:16:08] When winging really came about they pulled from their win surfing knowledge and started making wings with Jason Diffin the wing the Windsor of sale designer and realize that we needed to align all of the foiling under one brand.
[00:16:23] So really brought it all under KT brought the wings under KT brought the original Quattro wing drifter and the KT drifter for to bring them together into the KT wing drifter line along with the KT drifter slim the prone foil boards just to really consolidate all of the foiling under the KT brand.
[00:16:46] Okay, yeah I think that was that was a pretty good solid play bringing all those aspects together and kind of making it uniform.
[00:16:54] I don't think anybody knew how and how big and how quick foiling and like wing foiling would explode but I think that was a good play for the future absolutely.
[00:17:05] Yeah, we needed to you know right needed to get under one brand and you know it really could have fallen under any single one of them ever on nose. Everyone knows the different brands under their own industries but now I think that the task is.
[00:17:23] Telling that forward now he KT go into Quattro story to tie in you know the KT foiling to the go to win surfing heritage to the Quattro Maui heritage.
[00:17:36] Because KT not just some startup foiling brand that hopped on the bandwagon here there's 30 years of design behind everything they do from the boards from the wind surfing sales pulling that into the wings. It's an incredibly talented team that's been out this for a long time.
[00:17:55] Oh yeah and the team riders like obviously Kai and a bunch of other people that are riding for them like you're getting some of the best riders in the world to test out gear and to be there on that R&D team.
[00:18:06] So the products are just that they are quality stuff. Absolutely, I mean the the mentality is definitely you know make they want to make year but they love to ride on that and it's a big team rider feedback experience.
[00:18:24] Through the design of right what do we want to be riding what feels do we like what are we searching for it's not a it's never like a play the market this is what the other people are doing.
[00:18:35] You know try to chase this brand or that brand it you know what are we looking for what are our riders looking you know what are the fields and their goals that they're looking to get and how do we design around those aspects.
[00:18:49] Yeah I heard that about because I was on Maui who's been a while now I'm due to go back but I was back there in 2012 when there was a little ha classic and I was able to meet some of the the guys are some met Francisco and I think I only may have met Keith in person there at the shop.
[00:19:07] And it was a really good family vibe kind of thing a family feel and that's what they told me exactly was that day is like we like to make stuff that we and our riders like to ride and that's where we focus our energies.
[00:19:19] And I kind of fell in love with the brand then just because of how personable and nice and kind they were. Yes now with so many brands on the market. We're looking for a little bit more like why are we buying what we're buying.
[00:19:35] Like what are they doing who's riding for them and then what what are their core values and whatnot.
[00:19:42] Yeah right the market I mean the foil market is so saturated right now you know everyone who has any tie to to the industry is making a wing aboard and a foil and doing it and.
[00:19:55] And it's a life it amazing because the collective you know level of gear has come up so quickly that you know your heart press to find a bad board. You know on the market now.
[00:20:08] So it's more like what you're saying it's you know picking your brand that has a values you're going to stand behind that you want to support that you think is going to you know. Continue to design well and that it's kind of an ecosystem you can buy into.
[00:20:23] Yeah, especially yeah because when when for all of us who are in wind sports like it's such a love and it's such a passion that.
[00:20:32] We want to make sure that our money goes to that right place there's some buyers that are bargain hunters there's some buyers that are that are just looking for the most expensive but there's a lot of else other us.
[00:20:42] That are just looking for to stand behind a brand that we respect in that we like so.
[00:20:47] I'm able to kind of go into a little bit of the different so we have wings we got foils and we got our boards what do we want to start on chatting about first. I don't know.
[00:21:00] Let's start from the pop out let's start with wing kit okay let's do it. Katie waited a little bit before they came out with their first wing like there was a lot of companies that came out with their v ones right away the v ones were mediocre.
[00:21:14] Some of them were okay like f ones wings came out and they were pretty decent but there's some other ones that were just not quite there so did Katie wait on purpose did they wait just to see whatever your how did that kind of work.
[00:21:29] Yeah Katie definitely waited on purpose. Again so we never like Katie go ahead and never went into the citing world of it there always been like a you know traditionally hardcore surfing surfing brand.
[00:21:45] Excuse me I think initially it was like let's wait and see what's actually happening with your first part before we go and really dive into it. They never dabbled into the the inflatable market if you will from citing and then.
[00:22:05] As you said you know a lot of the v-wing v-1 wings really did not hit you know they could get you up and going for the most part but they were not by any means balanced or efficient.
[00:22:17] And that was something that Jason Diff in the the go a wind surfing sales designer and now the wing designer you know.
[00:22:25] Really wanted to avoid he did not want to put out a bad product and no one at the company wanted to put something out that they knew wasn't going to hit the mark.
[00:22:35] So they waited they you know research you know like road what other brands were making and then spent a lot of time on their own design and pulling from their wind surfing designs.
[00:22:48] I think they went through six seven eight different iterations at the beginning designing on Maui testing in the way testing light water you know in the harbor.
[00:23:00] Light wind in the harbor really just trying to dial in those different iterations so that when KT finally did come to market with a wing we knew it was going to perform well. Okay, okay.
[00:23:14] Can you walk us a little bit about material choices for leading edge and canopy and maybe why they went with like the handles on the kt's were some of the longest in the market I found but I liked them like I got last year's wings and and.
[00:23:30] I found that transitions were easy I could put my hands at every single spot along even though it was a material based handle. Can we walk through some of that. Yeah, I can't talk too much specifics about different. I'm going to go. I'm going to go.
[00:23:50] Yeah, I'm going to go. And I'm going to go. That's a good thing. I can drive it, I'm going to get it wrong. So I'm going to leave that for him at a later day. Yeah.
[00:23:59] I can definitely speak to the handles because they are one of my favorite parts of our soft handle wing we now have a hard handle wing out as well.
[00:24:09] But the kind of defining future of our wing and you alluded to it is those long handles and especially the long front handle that connects all the way out on. To the leading edge bladder.
[00:24:21] And that was something that Jason and the team sent a lot of time designing on and really similar to a wind surfing boom wanted to have that front hand connection point pulling the power at the front of the sale right if you have your handle further back on the boom on the strut.
[00:24:41] That means that you have power zone in front of your front hand. Right, so that leverage point is now in front of your front hand if I'm going this way.
[00:24:51] And where if you connect the handle all the way out to the leading edge you're moving that full crum of your lever all the way out on the other side of the power zone.
[00:25:00] So it balances the wing a lot better through that front hand pull makes it a lot easier to control and fine tune your front hand. And then as you're surfing or going through maneuvers you're able to slide your front hand all the way out towards that leading edge.
[00:25:18] Half the time when I'm surfing those wings I'm not even going to that front surf handle I'm just sliding my front hand all the way up right up under the leading edge and cruising there because I know I'm always going to surf for a little bit I'm riding a little piece of wind shop or a little swell and then I'm going to transition right back in to failing and just be able to.
[00:25:38] To slide your hand all the way forward there makes that a lot easier same thing especially going through tax being able to just slide your hand all the way up front there pull the wing over your head.
[00:25:49] Makes it really easy to control make it really easy to control that leading edge through as you go through the wind window too.
[00:25:55] Yeah, because last year was at knit net lake giving some lessons on Vancouver Island and just north of you and what I found is I had some kt's a bunch of my buddies are all riding different companies.
[00:26:07] But there was the recessed handle where I could not bring my hand up sometimes I just wanted to be able to relax or like cut some power or do something like that or surf with it further ahead and that wing just did not for that opportunity.
[00:26:19] So it was almost like yeah you're win surfing and you just jack your hands further back and then you got like a foot or two foot of power and boom it hits you.
[00:26:30] And it's like nothing back in right yeah slide back or slide forward and deep power same way you would have the wind surfing fail. It just makes them.
[00:26:39] Yeah, same thing with going up wind right because a lot of the times you're raking your wing back to the further back part of the window to go up wind and I found that was it can be a little easier.
[00:26:50] And then this year you switched to hard handles which I just actually had my first sessions on a couple days ago and I really liked them. I wasn't sure what I would think of hard handles I was a little hesitant about it, but I love it.
[00:27:05] So what are your thoughts of it? Yeah, I'm a big fan of a new director I've wings. That was a kind of a mid season decision for us.
[00:27:16] The whole wing world for the most part you know is going to a hard handle moves we started playing around with it and wanted to get it out there out of the market for people to use.
[00:27:29] And I love the hard handles I can't speak highly enough about them that direct control you have over the wing to be able to move it in all three dimensions.
[00:27:40] And so forward back up down in and out is so amazing I think the pumping power that you gain in the efficiency is incredible.
[00:27:51] I'm easily took three or four dots off of my low end to be able to get up on a wing just to be able to push the wing out away from me articulate my wrist and really control that scooping pump power.
[00:28:05] Same thing jumping and tacking the air like really hang on the wing, hang on those hard handles and have control of it while it's over your head is so nice.
[00:28:18] Fair enough and we're stoked to talk to Jason about that stuff too about placement and how we chose a length that they chose and all of that kind of thing.
[00:28:28] Let's hop over to boards like we've seen a couple a couple of additions of and you got the new beautiful gin soup behind you there. Stoke to hear a bit more about that transition. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:28:42] Yeah, so KT has a lot of different boards as I mentioned the floorboards started with the the quarter wing director that most people probably seen around that dark blue board.
[00:28:54] There's one of the top selling wing boards for a while out there and then we had the KT director falls which were the smaller volumes of 54 leaders and down.
[00:29:02] We brought that together into the KT wing director line just kind of your standard board shape as a you know, concave bottom flat deck pretty traditional rocker lines and then last year in 2022 end of 2022 beginning of 2023 we launched the KT Genzu which is a crazy step bottom design board.
[00:29:26] I've got it. One here if you're watching online with this crazy step bottom. It's a pretty wild design and it started with a lot of input from Kylenny and Elliott Lebow as they're really looking for that thinner back foot section where your foot connects to the foil.
[00:29:48] They're coming from riding really small prone boards and kite for all boards where you had that really thin direct connection to the foil and as we transition to winging.
[00:29:58] There were a hunting for that feeling that more direct power connection for tighter turns and more powerful jumps and pumping so they started playing with you know putting this step into the board.
[00:30:10] Found out that as you might expect it creates a pretty inherent weak point in the board and you know they're designing this on Maui so it's.
[00:30:20] Every foil company in the world has people on Maui a lot of them design on Maui so this is a real kind of coconut dagger operation to get this board through the design process with.
[00:30:32] The guys like bringing boards in board bags into the water trying to find like really unique secrets spots where they could launch or there weren't other people looking you know making sure that no one was out taking photos of anything.
[00:30:46] And started designing these boards and really pulled from the wind surfing wave board technology that they had to build these boards super stiff and super bomber.
[00:30:57] With a full sandwich construction on the inside and a full carbon monoc exterior so that they were able to make it super stiff so that they don't break.
[00:31:08] And you get that really direct connection to the foil and as we started playing with these designs they realize that not only do you get the more direct connection to the foil but.
[00:31:20] As you're writing. You know you get going you're writing on the bottom of the board on the nose of the boards on the water and your tail is already out of the water.
[00:31:30] So it puts that surface tension release in between your feet with the volume under your front foot to be able to kind of bounce on the front of the board start pumping the foil and then like tick right up onto the foil kind of like a different way of taking off from like your traditional like.
[00:31:47] And then you're painting start if you will but it works really well.
[00:31:52] You know get you up onto the foil faster for sure and then what I love about having that step in the middle now is when you touch down just touching down on the top of a wave or off of a jump.
[00:32:06] Again that surface tension release is in between your feet so you at the front of the board hits the water. Tail is still free so you just push right through and there's no grab or suction on the board.
[00:32:18] I don't even blink when I touch down anymore just like oh you just bounce right off or on low riding on getting close to my style speed.
[00:32:26] Knows with the board hits a kick my tail pop right back up and there's no grab on the board it's really amazing.
[00:32:34] Oh cool what have you noticed like I wrote it last year Jesse at dirty mermaid water sports there in Vancouver Island brought some in and he messy calls me is like hey but I have it you want to come and test this puppy out.
[00:32:46] So it was like sweet so we test drove it and. I was riding the 72 liter kt so the regular board and then I switched to this one and I found this one railed like a railed left and right easier it was quicker it was more responsive.
[00:33:04] I found getting up on it was a it wasn't as hard some guys that said it was harder because the tail would sink but actually it wasn't because there's so much more float in the front. But overall I found that it's just railed better.
[00:33:17] Yeah I mean that's that that's that more direct connect and with your back foot to the boil it just makes it so much more maneuverable and if you think of the physics out of your your the force your body is exerting is going through less foam.
[00:33:31] To get to the foil so it's that you know the stiff board construction and you're pushing through a thin stiff tail to give you that much more direct.
[00:33:42] You're able to get your feet up your tail so yeah you're able to rail turns a lot harder snap them back and forth and you're just not losing that force three year maneuvers. Yeah I'm exciting to see what they come up with next. You would need both.
[00:34:04] Yeah and I definitely don't want to I don't want to take anything away I don't need to short sell the windrippers by any stretch. I love them awesome yeah I wrote it I still write a 90 and a 60 liter.
[00:34:16] Some winger if or whenever I can yeah there again we're a board shaping company I mean nothing everything that keep in the design team does has a very specific reason.
[00:34:30] And they you know they know what they're doing without we've been doing it for a long time when surfing and surfing.
[00:34:36] So they pull that all of that years of design into those boards as well and the double content bottom the rounded rails really does work really well the super smooth take off and touchdown.
[00:34:51] And they're not just you know phoning it in with a flat bottom and a rounded tail there's still a lot of design that goes into the shapes and those in that whole board line fully dropping downwind life.
[00:35:04] I I make myself go winging because I do still love it but downwinding has taken over my life. I'm fully hooked and could not be happier to have this deity in my life.
[00:35:19] I learned to I got into downwind something pretty early on I was surfing again initially you know back in 2020 I was one of the first you know disciplines I knew I wanted to get into as a surfer as well.
[00:35:35] And you know in the first in Rhode Island the first you know hurricane roll through and we tried to go out and downwind something you know 50 knots of wind and couldn't get up at all couldn't make it happen.
[00:35:47] You know just dogging it trying to get going and last year I was on step out here in the garage everyone is starting to get into downwinding at a bunch of bodies that were doing it.
[00:35:58] And everyone who was doing it was just for offing so hard I mean it was you know everyone is loving it's like all right got to do this it's a pinnacle of foiling and I've got to try it.
[00:36:10] So I was on a six six by twenty seven rectangular board those you know worked great in the surf but I would just paddle and skinned the encircles and I spent all summer last year trying to get going on that board and I was riding I
[00:36:27] I downwind on Tacuma to cheer us on the 12th pan I borrowed a friend 1440 and was to finally get it going on like the big days blowing 30 plus big swells at the hatchery and if I got it just right I could get that board up on foil and I was so freaking stoked to finally get going on that board.
[00:36:53] But had to be blowing you know 25 30 plus for it to even be possibly attainable for me and then.
[00:37:03] KT have been we've been working on downwind boards and they had prototypes coming together and Maui but they weren't bringing them over to the mainland for us they were trying them there and I finally got to try one of the prototypes at AWS I lost year out here in the garage.
[00:37:19] And there was there wasn't a ton of wind but I was able to get up and 14 knots and then I was able to flat water started and it was like.
[00:37:29] Blue my mind absolutely blew my mind I was on and it was there was the 8 to 125 or 130 liter board summer in that range and it was 21 wide it was super narrow I thought this thing is going to be so hard to stand on.
[00:37:45] You know like how is this even going to work it's 8 feet long it's going to be massive and it was super easy to balance on paddled really well and with a foil tracks for so far forward that once you got up it didn't feel like you were riding a huge board I was still able to link tight turns in the trough and it just the efficiency was amazing.
[00:38:08] And now we have a full production line of downwind boards that are about to hit the US they should be here in the next couple weeks and they're making they've been making customs out of the shop on Maui for a couple months now which I was able to snag one.
[00:38:25] From Keith and the guys down there to get up here in the gorge and there's a few of us here that have them now and they are amazing.
[00:38:33] They didn't see dragonfly is what they're calling them and if you're watching you can see this still has a little since you step here. Sorry what was that? Oh I was going to say if we could see it that would be under. Yeah.
[00:38:53] We'll be able to see the full looks here and so that's a 7 7 by 1 10 by 20 and a quarter wide. And again the guys put a ton of time into the design on these boards.
[00:39:13] They don't want to just throw something out there that to try to hit the market fast. They really spent a lot of time editing and revising and revising and pulling these designs together.
[00:39:29] Looking at all different watercrow, making a board, making a board that goes fast through the water is not a new concept. So looking at open ocean can news, looking at white water kayaks, looking at America's cup yachts and super maxi designs.
[00:39:53] How do we make a board that's really efficient at going through the water? We know how to make a board that rides well on foil but the downwind world learned from Dave Kalama and his Dara Kudos is that if you make a narrower
[00:40:13] longer-nour board is much more efficient paddling through the water which makes it a lot easier to take off and get up on foil. And that's really become the crux of downwind foiling is how easy is to take off, right?
[00:40:30] Once you get up you're foiling, you're riding on a foil, you're using your same gear and but you need to be able to get on foil. And the better the board is, the easier it is to do and the basically shitty or conditions you can do it in.
[00:40:46] And I think they've really nailed it. The new round of downwind boards that are coming out to the world are going to open that sport up to the masses. Again, I mean I struggled.
[00:41:00] I'm not, I'm by no means a professional athlete but I'm a reasonably fit person and I get probably 200 plus days a year on the water now.
[00:41:09] And I struggled so hard trying to figure out downwind foiling last year in one of the best places in the world to learn it. And these boards are going to open it up. They are so efficient and they're really not that hard to balance on.
[00:41:26] I feel like that's the other scary thing when you go to a board like this is, you know, this board is 110 liters but it's only 20 inches wide, 20 and a quarter wide.
[00:41:37] So it feels really narrow and you've got this rounded hull shape and you know, it feels like it's just going to see saw out from underneath you and there's no way you're going to be able to stand on it.
[00:41:47] But the foil creates as a keel, you know, would on a boat and it gives you that balance and balance underneath the water.
[00:41:56] And then as opposed to having a big wide flat surf sup that gets bounced around by the chop and floats on the surface with a narrower hull shape design. It really sits in the water and gets held in the water.
[00:42:11] So it is actually a really stable platform, you know, to get up and balance on.
[00:42:17] And, you know, you're not trying to, you're not on like a regular sup, you're not paddling up wind or trying to like paddle across, you know, the chop and like, you know, go for a tour. You're generally positioning yourself facing downwind, paddling with the swell with the wind.
[00:42:32] So it is a really stable platform to get up and get going on. And then you're going to get up and get east through these ear and hood river, but we have like a 10 to 15 not east through these rolling to the gorge.
[00:42:44] It was hot as hell out here. And we brought the downwind boards down to the waterfront and I was sailing on a five meter and 10 knots of wind on the downwind board. Again, like the efficiency through the water is so good.
[00:43:00] As soon as you get a puffer, you can, you know, get a little bit of power to pump the wing. The board just wants to take off and release. So it's like if you're looking at, you know, so many companies are making like seven and eight meter wings.
[00:43:13] I can tell you, I will never own, I will never ride anything bigger than a five, maybe a six meter because I'll ride that board. And it takes that whole friction and effect, you know, the friction concept of getting up onto the foil out of the equation.
[00:43:27] And it's super easy to get up, you have one little gust. And then you're up and riding on whatever foil you want to ride. And once you're up, you're doesn't, you know, the wing size is not as relevant. And it doesn't feel it still rides great on foil.
[00:43:41] I mean, that's the whole concept of it ripping us a downwind board too. So it doesn't feel weird to be winging on it by any means.
[00:43:48] Yeah, one of my, one of my buddies on Vancouver, I pulled one out last year and he was just like, this is what's coming.
[00:43:59] And I was like, yeah. And so as like, I never really heard of a downwind board and then like all that kind of so it was just interesting to see that design and the shape change and everything.
[00:44:09] So it's nice to kind of hear a learn more about it for people at home who could add a completely new dimension to the sport.
[00:44:18] But I have a new dimension to the winging. I also have taken it out to the coast and ridden it in the surfer couple times now. And it's my new favorite surf tool. I was in, I'm an average probably below average prone foyer.
[00:44:33] I can do it, but I'm, you know, 6-1-2-15 and I don't surf that much so my pop-up is pretty garbage and it usually takes me a, you know, a session to get it back.
[00:44:44] But I took the downwind board out and I enabled to sit outside the surf line up away from everyone, not deal with any other shenanigans.
[00:44:55] And as soon as a wave starts to wall up or show its face at all, it's so easy to paddle up on and catch on the downwind board.
[00:45:04] And then I'm just ripping unbroken swell on the outside of the surf line up, picking my line cruising past the line up out onto the shoulder.
[00:45:12] Just ripping turns last time I was out, I caught probably 30 or 40 waves in three hours. Like it was just lap and repeat and repeat their light super light weight.
[00:45:22] I was on the 2,12 tan which I can pump pretty well. I was, you know, able to double up and like, and I wasn't fighting for a wave with anyone.
[00:45:30] Like I was running my complete on program with probably 50 other people in the water and I was sitting 100 yards out of it off to the shoulder just have it my own playground or the amazing.
[00:45:40] No, that's sweet. Let's dabble into some foils. Curious to see what, because I know my friend company came out. I tried some of them with Jesse last year. Do you have any insights into that whole area of the arm arming to?
[00:45:58] Yeah, so, right. So KP distributes for MFC now we've been company and they've had a few hiccups along the way with their foils and are really, I know they're working on some new stuff right now.
[00:46:13] So new high-off-tocks stuff. They were one of the first foils brands that come out onto the market back in like 2018, 2019 then had some production problems and kind of they spent a few years dealing with some internal production and factory issues.
[00:46:31] They're kind of left down a little bit behind the ball with the new high-off-tocks tipping point in the foil market. They're just coming around to I haven't seen any of their new prototypes yet, but I know that they have some new stuff coming and a title.
[00:46:48] So obviously KP is also working on some foils as I'm with them and with their own factories that still in the works, nothing I can officially report there yet.
[00:47:03] That's kind of, I'm writing some, I guess KP prototypes right now that are out of the goya factory and all I've changed since then, hot on that project as well. So it's an out you can pick his brain on that.
[00:47:18] But for the winging side, I mean it's both my mind what we're all writing right now. Again, I learned three years ago on a 2000 square centimeter foil and now I don't write anything bigger than a 900.
[00:47:33] I think my wing coil is a 920 and I write that in every wind condition. Unless I go down to a 700. Okay, yeah, and you're lucky you're in you all, you've chosen to be there but it's such a beautiful place with a bit nicer wind.
[00:47:51] Yeah, I have that point spoiled where you know pretty much any given day it's gonna hit 20 if not 30 plus.
[00:48:00] Oh yeah absolutely now if you found like we talked to sense of grace from from hood river as well and she was using a slightly bigger board for her weight and when you're not writing the downwinder or the the jinsu like what do you what's your board of choice for example for leaders.
[00:48:20] And because you said you had to 16 to 90 you said. Yeah, so I was writing that and I've actually this ginsu that I was telling earlier is a 54 liter and I've gone to that pretty much all the time.
[00:48:33] And there's actually a sense of husband Brandon who I say it then a lot and I was I was really trying to push my thinker board game last year it's a very windy place here and I was writing I had a 46 liter ginsu and a 42 liter wing drift and I was playing with those two boards and I'm 215 pounds for reference.
[00:48:55] So I'm pretty good guy and you know it's planned with a sinker board and I could do it if it was if it was really ripping and I was a little overpowered on my wing size and I could get dragged up out of the water.
[00:49:08] There was a blast and I could rip on you know on that 40ish mid 40s range and I was sitting in the water at the hatchery and Brandon was sailing circles around me you know goofing with me going you know for a more fun than sitting in the water.
[00:49:24] And he's about the same size as me so I was chatting with him afterwards and he's writing a 60 liter board.
[00:49:31] I was like all right, like I thought that that was in that kind of like unattainable mid size range for me that I couldn't do because there was just too quirky and I couldn't think it.
[00:49:41] But he was making it look easy so I grabbed a 60 liter wing drift or at first and now I'm on the 54 liter ginsu.
[00:49:49] And I that's kind of a next progression set that I unlocked last fall of that kind of mid sinker start and I actually just kneel on the board underwater. Find that balance point on my knees underwater.
[00:50:06] I'm able to get the wing overhead and then get the board right up onto the surface as soon as I power in the wing and once the board's on the surface and I'm out my knees then it's easy to stand up on.
[00:50:18] As you would on any other board you starting and once I kind of unlocked that balance point it takes a little bit of practice of flailing and flopping around and figuring out how to balance on the board underwater and finding that right volume for you that works.
[00:50:32] And to be able to get the wing overhead and there's a lot of different techniques that people use there's you know the stink bug start where you're on your stomach holding the handles with a wing and like.
[00:50:42] Introman yourself up onto your knees or I do the full sink the board on my but both knees on the board get the wing over my head and get going you know from a stationary start.
[00:50:55] Brandon's really good and he put out a good video over the winter of. That's like starting sitting on your board and then being able to go from sitting up onto your knees.
[00:51:07] I have pretty bad hip flexibility so I'm not too good at that I can do it sometimes with that I found that getting your upwind knee onto the board first and kind of like thinking that upwind rail.
[00:51:18] Helped me a lot because it kind of keeps the board tracking across the wind if you think that upwind rail and I was able to like wiggle my way up to my knees from there.
[00:51:28] But being able to unlock that mid-sized volume has really stopped me from riding anything of the 90 liters that I was riding previously. I can ride the 54 pretty much anything I wrote it with a six meter or a couple weeks ago and it was blowing 10 to 15.
[00:51:47] And if I can be riding that board having that small volume and maneuverability is so fun. And as long as I don't get stuck having to slot my way back in then I'm in pretty good shape.
[00:52:00] But I do still ride. I have a 92 meter gain suit that I ride a lot as well especially in the winter when the water is colder and I don't really want to just be hanging out trying to think start.
[00:52:12] And I love that board like with that step tail cut out it's still it's only five two and still feels super small maneuverable and to say it will fully float me and low ride me back home if the wind dies or gets cold.
[00:52:26] I'm very not very notorious for always trying to find the low end of my gear and I find it frequently.
[00:52:33] Well that's what you're supposed to do as a sales rep but like try all these different conditions and then when you have a conversation with somebody say why you ride that thing for. You can come up. You can go far. You can go far. That's it.
[00:52:49] Yeah, I mean I have the 40 fifth still sitting in my shed and I'm trying to sell it to a friend. I don't think I'll ride it again.
[00:52:58] It's fun to ride and I love to ride it when it's blowing 30 but there's a chance I end up sitting stuck in a lull for half hour with it too where I know on the 54 I can be off riding immediately and the tradeoff for me is not that significant.
[00:53:16] I don't I can maybe make a little bit of tighter turns and faster pumping the jumping on the 54 feels just as good.
[00:53:24] I don't feel like I have a big board swinging under my feet or anything like that and it's just that much more forgiving on the landing as well. I don't think I will go back to a full finger.
[00:53:37] How long will it take you to kind of nail that knee start with the board under the water?
[00:53:42] I'm took me about three or four seconds of kind of plowing it around and struggling with it. I mean having the fingerboard experience already I was comfortable balancing on a board under water and like had the practice for getting the wing into the right position.
[00:54:04] I think a lot of it balancing on the board under water, I don't think is that difficult. You can you can go out and know when and you can practice doing that.
[00:54:14] For me the hardest part where I still end up falling off is getting you know your I go front hand. I'm trying to get on the board one hand on the nose of the board one hand on the handle on my wing on the so-handle of the wing.
[00:54:32] I'm kind of using the wing as balanced to get my knees on the board find that balance point and then you've got to make that move from pressing the wing into the water to having the wing in both hands over your head.
[00:54:48] I think that's the hardest piece of the puzzle to figure out. I kind of set myself up facing across the wind obviously weighing on the downwind side and so you know downwind hand holding the wing on the water up when hand on the board and then I'll actually bring
[00:55:10] up to me you can't reach to the wing bring the wing up over my head grab my up when hand my front hand onto that front handle and usually all then press the leading edge back into the water on the upwind side of me.
[00:55:25] So I'm then under like fully under the canopy of the wing strut in front of me leading edge pressed into the water so now I'm both hands on the wing I can kind of at that time still adjust myself on the board if I need to.
[00:55:40] I can even have the nose pops up I can grab the nose the board with my hands on the handle wiggle myself around but I can really get set still using the wing as a balanced point and that I can in that position wait for a gust to come before I pop the wing up over my head and then I'm ready to go and take off.
[00:56:01] But I think that's where I struggle the right feet people struggle the most is like you can down from the board under the water when you have the wing to hold onto but getting the wing into that sailing position is the real struggle.
[00:56:13] Yeah, I'm on the full finger right you need to get it under you I guess I do that as well I choke up on the weeds hold the wing yeah you like yeah get on the board and then once my knees are on the board I have one hand on the board and then I go up to that to the surf handle on the wing.
[00:56:31] So that I'm done really like pressing on the leading edge but yeah bringing it over you and pressing the leading edge into the water on the upwind side keeps the wing installed out into the wind and lets you keep that leading edge or the strut or the wing tip you know some part of the wing.
[00:56:47] Still in the water there to give you that extra float and extra balance it was definitely easier with the soft handle KT wings to make that move right with that handle all the way up I would just reach under the wing.
[00:56:59] For the you know below the leading edge there grab that front handle and then I'm already holding the handle there so then if an easy move you know right up into both hands.
[00:57:09] Yeah, when you're when you're fishing around way back for a front handle it's definitely more difficult. Have you had the opportunity like in your in your winging career so far to travel to different spots and sales and cool spots.
[00:57:24] Not as much as I would like definitely want to more I've gotten to go down to Maui got down there last year and got to get out and sell it.
[00:57:35] I'm not going to have a lot of time to go down over at Knaho Point which is amazing if you're a winner highly highly recommend the Maui trip.
[00:57:43] Knaho Beach and Knaho is it's a foil playground I mean the outer reef there on a you know small the mid-size day are just perfect to the three foot three to four foot.
[00:57:56] Breaking waves over a four foot five foot deep reef you're not going to hit your foil on it and then it just rolls into the inner bay of like cruising flat water rollers.
[00:58:09] It was just like blew me away with how fun it was just be able to play in the waves rip turns go outside into ocean slow come back in surface all the way in it just doesn't break onto the rocks or onto a you know dry reef it just.
[00:58:24] Maui's right out onto the inside I could I could play there for hours and did play there for days and then I got to get down to Baha and spend some time down in Laven Tana again this past winner.
[00:58:37] I'm down there for two weeks I love it down there in the winter time it's so fun and the downwinders down there are blast.
[00:58:45] You know that it's so easy and just you drive right up to the offspring's beach of an eight mile run right back down to Baha jose and when the north-aiths fill in there the swell is on and it is a cool to see wing and kind of take that town over now too.
[00:59:03] We had wide on and he said he moved there I think when they were like two restaurants or something. Yeah, it's it's really blown up.
[00:59:12] But it's still fun it's still diverse it's so good you know a good low-key vibe hopefully we're still paying that in another ten years.
[00:59:22] It's a special place it's a cool the cool conflicts of you know wind sports and local Mexican culture and it's a lot of fun I really love it down there. Oh nice so does your partner wing with you or she into water sports too.
[00:59:41] She does not she's from the mountains and she is not a water child like me as much she's fed you'll give it an honest go and we just had a friend who got got an e-foil so hopefully get her out on the e-foil and she's fed she's going to give it a winging and on a stride of summer.
[00:59:59] Oh nice man but obviously snow right yeah both yeah that's all because you're in Wyoming you said yes yeah I was injecting all Wyoming for a long time.
[01:00:11] Oh that must have been unreal pretty amazing but now after living here and be you I mean I sell 12 months out of a year.
[01:00:21] You know probably two or the plus days a year like I going back to six months of eternal winter and no open bodies of water sounds kind of tough I don't know.
[01:00:31] I miss it I miss it a lot for those like you know January and February but then when it's 50 to leave it's sunny here and I can be out on the water or I can go ski powder in the morning and then be on the river and the afternoon and the gorgeous it's pretty good living here.
[01:00:48] Oh yeah I don't doubt like it's one spot that I would like to go spend more time in my brother and I went down once.
[01:00:55] How about can we talk about some of the different launch spots or there's some like obviously travel based on conditions but are some of your favorite spots because.
[01:01:03] Yeah I mean the hatchery is king for me right over the bridge and white salmon on the Washington side and the way the waves back up there especially for foiling is just incredible it's a super tight period big freight train swells like this time of the year the current is ripping.
[01:01:23] I don't know what it's that now was it was averaging like 370,000 KFS coming out of the dam and the dals earlier this week and so we have a very we have a special wind phenomenon here in the gorge right where.
[01:01:39] We're sitting right on the cascade divide and so you have cool wet coastal Oregon and Portland that's on borderline you know like temperate rain forest in the coastal range and then eastern Oregon is high dry desert.
[01:01:54] So eastern Oregon heat drop suck the cool thermal air in off the coast and funnels it through the gorge.
[01:02:01] So you always have wind against the tide essentially and in the springtime and early summer when the snowmelt is ripping and the current is ripping in the river that wind and swell stacks up and just drives huge waves.
[01:02:17] You have like full popped about I'm breaking 68 foot high swell rolling through the hatchery.
[01:02:23] That is just unreal fun like you can't believe it until you see it and everything like all you're selling on a river like what's that it's full on you know it's blowing 35 and you're ripping your hanging on for dear life ripping down eight foot phases.
[01:02:40] I am like yeah we were how many years has that been probably been five or six years or something that we went down and I think it was the first time I was seeing women on four meter kites and three meter kites and stuff.
[01:02:52] Yeah and she was coming into swap for three and it was like whoa. Yeah because from Ottawa or from other spots like that you're lucky if you get on like I don't know a nine or something.
[01:03:03] Yeah and I always love that there's a bumper sticker out here from the for the wind surfing days that says if it's not for oh don't go. For oh. That's unreal.
[01:03:18] Yeah the hatchery is a king for like for full on ripping sailing we feel we felt the event site right in downtown hood river a lot as well. It's super easy it's right in town and you're protected by the sand bar that's built out from the hood river.
[01:03:35] And so it's a good just like flower water easy place to fail you can still get out into the main channel and find some ways out there. The great place to learn to foil.
[01:03:45] You've got the whole water front there and as you go upwind out it's called the hook.
[01:03:51] It's kind of the sand spit that sticks out upwind and then you've got this nice protected bay running along the hood river waterfront with the big sand bar sticking out at the bottom as a big catchers net.
[01:04:02] And there's a bike path and like a walking path all along it and a road as well so it's really easy to do quick little shuttle laps. You know as you're learning and blowing down wind you're in flat water you're not going to get sucked down river.
[01:04:16] Great place to learn and still find like you know especially on light wind days get out on the downwind board go whip around you got a nice big graphe lawn to come in and be rigged and drink beer in afterwards.
[01:04:28] Yeah those are one thing I noticed was the community there and we showed up there was just so many win surfers and so many people at events site and it was just awesome to see that the vibe was still alive. It's awesome. And everybody was so nice.
[01:04:42] Yeah especially like again I grew up in Rhode Island and learned to foil in Rhode Island where it's like I knew everyone who win surf and everyone who foil and if I didn't know you it was like who's that guy out there hold out a second someone else is foil in your out here we got to go talk to all the like see where they live it why out they hanging out with us.
[01:05:01] Yeah you come here and it's overwhelming you know it's like you know at any given day there are a couple hundred people out you know windsurfing winging and kind of it's amazing.
[01:05:13] Nice talk about yeah so hatchery and then events site now this does and there's a bunch of other spots. There's so many spots.
[01:05:22] Yeah on the west on the on the Washington side you've got dogs and you go further east out to the wall kind of comparable spots on the on the Oregon side.
[01:05:34] With I want to say man's Anita but that's on the coast there's another park on the Oregon side across from dogs that I'm blanking on the name of right now. Yeah I'm still there before yeah that's a fun place to say all.
[01:05:48] Good easy public park access to launch on and again the gorgeous such a unique climate where we're right on that like could rivers on the cascade divide it's right on that transitions on.
[01:06:02] And there's so many little micro pressure climates and everything here all the wind here is pressure driven so sometimes you'll have.
[01:06:12] It'll be dead calm and hood river blowing you know five to ten but then you go down to dogs and it's blown 15 to 20 and then you go further east and you know you drive 45 minutes east pass the dials out to roof is and it's blowing 35.
[01:06:30] And it's you know you'll be just driving along the river and it'll be like glassy calm and then five miles later it's absolutely new can.
[01:06:38] It's just these little tight climates so I think actually like cell flow and I went surf we started out here trying to map these you know give actor predictions to these little micro wind climates.
[01:06:52] And so like living out here I mean we're spoiled because you live here and like yes I love failing to actually it's 10 minutes from my house and if it's going that's where I'll be but an hour and either direction gives me probably 20 different places to launch.
[01:07:10] And you just you know open up I win surf I kite surf whatever app you use windy and see you know all right it's blowing you know 10 to 15 here 15 to 20 there.
[01:07:24] You know roof is an hour and can are going off it's a day to go out east all right I'm going to drive 45 minutes and I'm going to go sail in you know 30 knots and it's ripping out there.
[01:07:34] You know if I could fail 15 not there at home but I'm going to go chase chase breeze. Oh yeah no that it's such a yeah it's such a gift and stuff to be able to do that. All right so I guess Tom's not coming.
[01:07:49] Guess Tom's not coming back at all maybe his phone died. Oh well okay so back on KT train where do you see that brand expanding exploiting to I know a lot more stores here in Ontario covering KT speaking for the brand.
[01:08:07] And we're really trying to expand in North America a lot I mean we're in all the major shops you know big wins real map kite boarding north beach wind surfing down on state side as long as a lot of other smaller local retailers. I've been Canada.
[01:08:25] You got Jesse on Vancouver Island with 30 mermaid. Silence for its over in Ontario and a lot of the other big players up there as well and really just exciting to see the brand kind of build their name for themselves in this sporting in this industry like.
[01:08:46] And a lot of people again you know the win surfing world knows go. Yeah every year when surfing you know go ahead win surfing.
[01:08:53] You know Francisco and Lalo made sure that your friends is because of two time world champion and so that's a household name if you're a win surfer and they make some of the best win surfing gear in the world with.
[01:09:08] I know myself brown being the world champion right now way failing and so that brand is out there and it's really just connecting that heritage to the KT foiling.
[01:09:20] And and also I think it's and either you were Tom alluded to it before as well like a lot of the KT surfing. Brand them is associated with Kailene with Ian Walsh and with those pros and it's.
[01:09:37] We're not we don't want to be this inaccessible you know high end brand that you have to be a pro to ride you have to be a pro to feel the difference on like these boards really do work for everyone and.
[01:09:51] We're not just a bunch of pro riders designing gear for pro riders. You know it does work around that that trickle down in the sport is there and in the design you know it's those those top riders are the best because they're.
[01:10:08] So good at putting the time in their sport and at really focusing their needs and what they're looking to get out of it.
[01:10:15] And I think that's where Keith works really well with his riders is taking what they're looking at being able to translate that into a design you know the same with Jason on the wing side it's like all right.
[01:10:28] This is what you're feeling this is what you're looking for you know this is what you're feeling now or this is the feeling that you're looking for how do we make that possible how do we take that so that you're actually getting a product that is writer driven.
[01:10:44] Accessible for a lot of people as well like I'm running this 72 my buddies writing a drifter 105 but same kind of it's just as easy accessible for him same with me. So it's nice to be able to have that wide range and not make this gear.
[01:11:01] Unaccessible but quick and easy on touchdowns like I found they changed their track like the their pads this year that last pads were a little bit more aggressive these one switched a little bit. Yeah, I love the new black pad it's so soft and grippy.
[01:11:18] I think and you just touched on it with like the you know the 105 year board and the wing drifters go all the way up to 160 against you goes up to a 120 but we you know you look at so many of the other brands out there and.
[01:11:33] And the one of the hardest parts about getting into the sport is what do you're doing I get that's the question you hear all the time right friends are asking you see it on all the forums and all the Facebook pages you know.
[01:11:44] This is my size I'm and I'm trying to get into the sport I want to get my first gear what do I get and you know you need a bigger board to learn it's going to make your learning process a lot easier but you don't want something that you're going to immediately grow out.
[01:11:59] Right, I'm like you know I learned on the seven foot. Nashboard that was a picnic table and not nothing against Nash I love their gear but. When it's nice to have a board and I think the KT wing drifters do this really well in their compact package.
[01:12:18] How's the volume you need to learn on. It's designed that is still fun to ride as you progress. You know like your buddy riding the 105 liter isn't going to grow out of that board.
[01:12:30] You know you can get 120 liter board that gives you the volume to learn on 130 liter board that gives you the volume to learn on and get up and get going. That isn't going to be a pig in the water it's not crazy heavy it's not seven feet long.
[01:12:48] You know it's still going to be maneuverable and fun to ride and you're going to be able to learn to drive on it you're going to be able to learn to pump and ride swell on it.
[01:12:57] And then when you're ready and you want to you can progress down to a smaller board but. You know that was like.
[01:13:05] We wanted to design those bigger sizes to still be fun to ride so that they're accessible to everyone so you don't have to you know buy a board and two months later buy another board.
[01:13:18] You want to have something that you can keep riding and get a year or two at least of time out of. You know to still have fun and ride on. Yeah like I think it was was it last year?
[01:13:30] No it was the year before I think when they had the blue drifters out the road drifters from from quadro.
[01:13:37] So a buddy had a 115 and 90 and an 80 and I was able to try all three in the same session and you know what I was blown away at how close they were just a little bit more float a little bit more float.
[01:13:52] But it's like I drove a what are like I wrote the 115 is it okay cool.
[01:13:57] I was hopping the other one right away and I was like huh and then I dropped on the 80's like huh like the 80 was obviously a little shorter more compact but overall the feel was similar which I was very happy about and blown away at the same time.
[01:14:10] Yeah absolutely right the goal was right you wanted we want the 115 to ride as well as the 80. You know we are now there is going to be a new beginner centric board coming out hopefully the summer I think if I was going well okay.
[01:14:28] That's going to be the drifter flight that's like a school specific beginner board. That we designed with a center fin box in the middle of it. Which similar like fling shots been doing us with there inflatable boards.
[01:14:44] To give you that beginner board that has a foil track in the back and a center fin box in the middle so that you can learn to low ride and control the wing and fly and still track up wind and not just get blown off downwind.
[01:14:58] But then that you can transition right up on to foiling and go through the whole beginner process on one board.
[01:15:05] You know we wanted to make that you know one board a hard board that ideally really focused towards schools or you know y'all clubs that are what looking to get into it you know something that schools can have they can have on the rack they can teach hunters the people to learn on.
[01:15:21] And it's a one board process that can take you from never having stepped on a board before never having followed before to alright this is a big stable platform and I can get up and go.
[01:15:32] So that you can go and have that really successful learning experience in a school environment before you transition to your own year.
[01:15:41] Oh, that's cool to know because yeah when I was teaching last year the board was a bit narrower I think it was a fanatic be but it was only a one 30 and.
[01:15:52] I found it was small for a lot of people weighing like over 160 pounds was just too small. It was too quirky and too much of a pain but but one of my clients there had I think it was the. Nash hover or something is about the 140 or 150.
[01:16:08] Yeah and it was a great board to learn on and we threw on a big big big foil for them and it made it was night and day difference.
[01:16:15] So come up with something that's going to be right along those same lines within it's going to be 7255 liters and okay. That goes the flip side of what we were just talking about but gives you that big stable platform.
[01:16:30] And if you're learning to win I would highly suggest taking a lesson somewhere and not just going out and trying to flounder around on your own. And so this is our goal to like give that really positive school environment you know school teaching experience.
[01:16:44] So that you have a field platform to learn on and then you can get down onto 115 board up you know 105 something that's a little closer to what you want to be writing that'll still be easy for you to continue to grow on. No that makes sense.
[01:17:01] Did you ever think like looking at the sport did you ever think a would ever we'd ever be kind of flying and this weird little blow up toy did you ever think this would come or.
[01:17:11] I mean, I guess in hindsight I'm not surprised if you look at it really just across between wind surfing and hiding.
[01:17:22] So it makes sense I mean the foil practice really what brought it all together and as a sailor I think it's really incredible and like I'm a big sailing nerd and you know race professionally for a little while and like.
[01:17:36] Yeah, love following the America's cup and all the prosailing now with sale GP and like when the America's cup transition to foiling. Whenever that first was 2013 and was like oh this terrible for the sport there's going to be no trickle down it's the death of you know.
[01:17:54] blah blah blah like this is so stupid and like it's only for the elite like it's never going to happen it's never going to go anywhere and. Yeah, now you look at you know that technology made this possible we would not be here if it wasn't for.
[01:18:12] The America's cops start you know bringing that carbon tech and that high aspect foil tech you know to the masses you look at arms strong you look at mass you look at.
[01:18:22] You know now North foiling like everyone has America's cup designers on their team you know that's where. You know that's that trickle down effect has hit arm market and has made foiling possible for us. Oh yeah it's a major in the gear is changed so gear change.
[01:18:39] I think it I can't wait to see where it goes in the next three years I mean it's amazing but I'm so happy that I got in on it at the beginning.
[01:18:49] I mean I remember that first thing was the first maybe it was the second summer I don't even know but you know sitting having a beer afterwards with my friend Dylan and both of us just kind of talking about it going.
[01:19:00] I think this is something I want to be really good at like I don't think this is something I want to just like half ass like.
[01:19:07] I think I want to I want to go all in on this like this is going to be this is going to be really cool and I want to do it.
[01:19:15] Yeah yeah absolutely how are you like how does it make you feel for people who've never wing before how would you describe the feeling to them. It's it's the most of it's the best flow state experience I've ever had.
[01:19:31] Okay I'm a big I'm a big flow state person it's something I chase in all of my sports and. The reason I you know love being so much and lived in Jackson Hall for seven years. Pacing screen powder.
[01:19:47] It's that perfect effortless bottomless smooth silent flow state experience when you actually the silent the smooth and silent aspect of it is amazing. I love it. I can't get enough of it if I could. For all every single day of my life I would.
[01:20:07] Oh yeah I think we would do my bottomless compared to like. Oh yeah that's the thing how do you compare it to like I guess what is very similar for you to I sorry I kind of explained it as.
[01:20:20] Powder snowboarding a little bit yeah totally if it's a similar feel that this getting our snowboarding powder. Yeah okay that's unreal. I mean I'm just so excited for where the sports going all the different disciplines that are growing out of foiling.
[01:20:37] You know and it's just amazing if you're told me two years ago that I'd be riding you know 900 700 square centimeter last in your face and said that's not.
[01:20:48] Like you know perfect that I now ride you know a 900 centimeter foil a 50 liter board and a four meter wing as my like go to everyday set up just blows me away.
[01:21:00] I cannot wait to see where this sport goes I think we're going to see it see the different disciplines continue to evolve I mean the downwind paddling side of it within winging you know the race scene is really starting to take off.
[01:21:15] All around the country you know there's a little hotspots example Cisco we actually don't really have a race scene up here in the gorge.
[01:21:22] There's racing on the east coast going on in Rhode Island there are hosting the New England wing racing championships in June and Bristol you know the end with a whole.
[01:21:32] The wing circuit already taking off and you know I think it's going to be really cool to see what happens in like the racing world and the free ride world in the wave riding world and kind of how those disciplines feed off each other but also expand in their own right.
[01:21:48] You know it's going to be cool to see to see where the gear progresses in each of those disciplines you know for super high speed stuff radical turning height you know big air jumping and in.
[01:22:01] Yeah, Chris McDonald out here landing 1080s already and you know someone's going to land a double flip on a wing this summer I bet only a matter of time I don't see why not. Not gonna need but.
[01:22:14] That one will be with our buddy max Robinson who's from Toronto so shut we pretty much get back to show that every every episode, but I think he's working on those double backies. Right. Yeah, I hope we got.
[01:22:27] Yeah, absolutely so for people who are looking to follow you getting touched with you what's the best way for them to reach out to. That's why it's on Instagram probably Andrew dot fair.
[01:22:44] I'm on there all the time you've got to touch with me I'm always trying to post foil content whenever I can get the GoPro out or get someone to stand on shore and she's a video of me.
[01:22:54] I'm also on Facebook Andrew fair and on the Northwest Wing for a link Facebook group pretty actively so. Give me a shout. Awesome. Well, hey man I want to say like thanks so much for joining us and talking about everything. Now I brought my brother fun conversation.
[01:23:12] I'm always happy to talk foiling. Oh yeah. We'll have to have you back on later when we get some some new toys and stuff and while that silver KT is beautiful. Who? Yeah. My baby. Yeah I don't know. Thanks for joining Tom and I in this episode.
[01:23:32] We hope you enjoyed it and we'll see you next time.