Episode #19 - Tom Hartmann / GWA Introduction

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing-foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Okay, all right, we're good to go. I think, okay Tom, it's a great to meet you. Thanks a lot for joining us today. Hey, Luke.

[00:00:23] Pleasure to meet you as well. I'm happy to be here and get some chat going about wing-foiling. Do you ever think we'd ever talk about wing-foiling on a global scale like this? Well, I wouldn't say that when I saw wing-foiling for the first time was probably

[00:00:43] in 2018 or 19, I thought it was sort of first guys on a wing on a foil. I mean, I come originally with water sportwares from the wing surfing background. I started in the 90s and there has been wings really around in the 90s, as you might know.

[00:01:01] And I don't know. But there was something like a wing on a surfboard or the wind surfboard at that time. Actually, a friend on mine had that thing but it only worked for 35 knots. There was only way to run this wing thing.

[00:01:18] And when I saw in 2018 the first wing-foiler with some prototype, yeah, I was like, oh man, now they're trying to bring back that wing thing back to life and give it a second chance. I don't know, it looks really awkward.

[00:01:35] I wouldn't have bothered at that time but then in 2019, I gave it a go myself on some friends equipment which was not suitable and it didn't really go very far. It was not very successful. So it's alright but it didn't really hook me at that time.

[00:01:56] And in 2020 we went Mauritius here and we got locked on the island for 18 months, you know, the airport was closed. And we had a couple of gear around here and I gave it another go and had equipment that

[00:02:09] was kind of suitable and got hooked pretty quick because I really figured out how easy it is to learn that sport. And when I saw within a week, you know how far you can progress, we were here on Mauritius with, you know, we had very limited gear.

[00:02:31] I had a couple of foils from surfboarding that I've been using. And I had a friend who had a shop who had some boards. Actually we didn't have real wing football, it's where we used modified SUPs and put the football inside them.

[00:02:50] And yeah, I was working like 9.8 foot long things, you know, that we were like no straps on it and then pretty soon tried to take those things to monototow the waves as well, riding the wave on this mess.

[00:03:02] So we have to pee on the foil and then yeah, and the friend of mine from the ozone guys actually could develop here in Mauritius. They gave us a wing and said like hey I have one in the garage and other the island but just

[00:03:15] take it and you know, use it. And then within a week I kind of understood the potential of this sport. I have never done something, I mean I do a lot of water sports coming from as that winter back on hydrochids surfing surfing SUP.

[00:03:30] I did winter foiling, I did Kaiser, Firling both didn't really hook that hard but when I got onto wing foiling and I really understood that's more about you know, you don't have that much

[00:03:43] of an engine in your hands like you have on a winter sail or a kite, you really roared at the right of foil. I understood the potential of that and that you know, I was everywhere.

[00:03:55] I mean the whole wing full virus hit us really bad here on the island and we were like on the water. It was pandemic it was closed you know there were no tourists around the whole spot was

[00:04:05] here just for five friends and we were and we were we were wing foiling every day three, four, five hours you know that's what we did and it was a crazy good season, it was pumping waves all the time

[00:04:20] with the spirit and yeah I was so stoked how quick the progress on this equipment is and that kind of showed me the potential and that's also how it motivated us to really push and say hey

[00:04:35] this sport is going to grow big and the industry was already pushing at that moment and as I've been and still I'm involved in the kite world to as well, organizing the kite world to the tour manager and together with my partner the CEO of the

[00:04:53] kite tour in Oregon folk Germany and then we were talking about a summer this sport is going to go big and we should do something about it and the industry was pushing behind it too and said like

[00:05:04] guys we need to organize this and that's how we all started and it's not going to be W8 and started the first and association around wing foiling and then also started the first competitions

[00:05:15] and yeah at that moment I realized we could sit here at one time and maybe talk about wing but before then I was really not aware of it to come back to your question

[00:05:27] actually what's the potential of this sport and now we have three years later and it's crazy how how quick this sport has developed I mean I've been in the beginning not in the beginning of

[00:05:36] wind surfing I started with surfing in 94 it was already 15 years of wind surfing before me or 20 but I saw kite surfing from the beginning starting in and in 90s and 2000s and I don't think

[00:05:50] kite surfing has progressed that quick in the first year like we need it not the first years so it really shows you know it's suitable a lot more spots you can do it in

[00:06:02] let's say worst conditions more plastic conditions you need to keep what obviously for the foil but yeah it shows us also on the events no suddenly we look at venues where you would never

[00:06:14] or you have to experience it so it's a bit different and and and this opens a lot more doors you know in terms of venues where you can hold the vents and I've been as I said my background

[00:06:27] is coming more from wind surfing I was competing myself on the world tour and wind surfing for a couple of years like eight years and then I started getting on the organizational side and I

[00:06:37] I ran the wind the European wind surfing to a for 12 years I went I started to or and then I switched on the kite tour and started working on the kite roll to since 2018 and now we started also the

[00:06:51] wind tour and yeah there is definitely a lot of places where before we did wind or kite and now wind's are on kite and now with the wind but there are also new locations where I think

[00:07:04] wouldn't be a prime spot for wind surf or kite surf but it works totally fine for a windfall event and that's one of the big potentials obviously of the sport. Yeah it opened up

[00:07:16] um opens up new demographics so younger kids because like wind surfing and whatnot is a little bit more challenging for somebody with less let's say upper body strength or who's still developing and stuff like that it's also a completely different feeling. It almost feels like powder snowboarding

[00:07:33] powder skiing and then me getting more into those sports now it's like well if you don't get to the hill and you sneak under a boundary all your powders gone in 15 minutes but with this like

[00:07:45] even if it's in gusty whatever and you got a foot little foot wind chop you can still ride that so it's like this sensation and feeling is just the freedom you get from its unbelievable.

[00:07:58] Yeah yeah totally that's what I was meant before like this I think the whole thing about hydrofrovin general not only wing foiling or be toe foiling wake foiling surf foiling um SUP foiling now downwind foiling SUP downwind or prone downwinding is getting really big

[00:08:18] all those very technical obviously but the whole foiling let's say technology has brought such a new aspect suddenly to the whole water sports world and it's a whole different way to look at it you know

[00:08:35] look at different waves to ride it's a different way to move you really that's what I like we in wing foiling as I said over over wing surf foiling and kite foiling because you really

[00:08:47] you're riding mainly the goal is to ride with the energy of the ocean not so much with the energy of the wind obviously you need a wing to get out flying but in the end you know you're riding

[00:08:57] with a little bit of power on your wing but you really try to to use your foil as much as you can and the foils get made more efficient nowadays then the first obviously the first foils we used

[00:09:09] were not you know now yet specific wing foils but we were riding on kite foils especially in the waves and I'm here in Mauritius we have power through wave, three freaks so we're riding on

[00:09:21] on big power through waves on the foil and we were using we were using kite small kite foils which were great on the waves but are really hard to ride on flat water because oh yeah properly

[00:09:33] power up and now the new generation of foils for wing foiling got the way more efficient for for this kind of use with having the glide still having the speed and yeah the sensation like you

[00:09:49] say I think that's the reason why down when down when foiling any any anyway is getting it's getting so popular because suddenly are you an intermediate level wing foiler looking for an epic adventure

[00:10:03] this winter if yes I suggest you reserve your spot for the wing foil expedition posted by Agua Salada Baja California sir adventures this coming January this trip is going to be absolutely amazing it includes ocean front accommodations airport pick up and drop off fresh locally made food and

[00:10:24] snacks created by a local artisan al chef yoga messages five days of wing foiling and the best part over 100 kilometers of boat assisted downwinders just imagine the freedom and peace in mind that will provide I look will be one of your wing foil coaches on this trip

[00:10:43] so be a great time to know the enjoy the downwinders but also ask questions to prove you're writing our trip will take you on different parts of love and tana in baja that you would not

[00:10:53] otherwise be able to access without a boat to learn more visit winglifepodcast.com and click on trips in the main navigation menu once again visit winglifepodcast.com and click on trips in the menu with only eight spots available we know it's going to book up fast

[00:11:11] so we recommend that you act quickly i'll see there you're surfing the wind swell you're surfing the bumps that you would never thought about surfing on the surfboard or yeah it opens up yeah absolutely

[00:11:23] it opens up a whole like for maybe 60% of the world or whatever that are on lakes rivers, streams everything else like it opens up that hold I'm a surfer to now like I can surf because like

[00:11:34] it jumped it opened that boundary that was no it wasn't there like if you want to get into real surfing you have to be in the right location be a lot of time put into it but with this you're learning

[00:11:44] a lot quicker it's still technical but yeah you're definitely learning a lot quicker than you would be otherwise yeah yeah i think this is one of the main reasons why so many people get into wing

[00:11:55] falling now is i think i've never done any any sport or water sports specially with such a steep learning curve it's crazy i mean especially if you come from the water sport background and you know wind

[00:12:07] surfing or guiding or surfing oh it's a meta of days you know to really have fun and ride on small equipment you know if you compare that to wind surfing i think on wind surfing you might be

[00:12:20] able to spot even young and annoying but you will not trip fast you will just stand around on the board that's sure you will not have this sensation of flying or going really fast

[00:12:31] planning on the water so this you can get very very quick and this is the fact that it's so suitable for young people that was something i didn't realize in the beginning two of the sport

[00:12:41] I realized that after a year in the beginning a lot of people were like oh yeah i'm controlling that's what all the old guys do then i don't want to ride a little surf anymore

[00:12:50] and now you have some more young people than anything else getting into this sport just because equipment is so much more suitable and because um yeah i mean you can with seven 80 years old

[00:13:02] you you get on the 20 25 little board a small foil of small wing and it's all you need to progress your level super quick it's not heavy it doesn't need to be you need to

[00:13:14] need to have strong physics actually to handle it compared to a kite you know a seven year old on a kite has a hard time to control it and most of the parents don't even want to take

[00:13:25] the risk of doing that or putting their kind of sun is and wind surfing years heavy yeah so that's why it opens up to young people so much and that's great to see because these

[00:13:37] these going to stay in this board hopefully for long and maybe they come to nothing 20 years but we have no idea what's going to come but you know Matt Pritchard and Kate and Pritchard

[00:13:49] from Maui we had Kate and on at the start of the podcast and the tricks like he's what he was 13 the stuff he's pulling on that um like thinking he was working on yeah 720 both ways

[00:14:03] front flip back for all that stuff right and it is just a 13 year old kid throwing this in throwing 34 layers and just like hand gliding meets this whatever it's unbelievable and then all

[00:14:15] those gliding videos like we're talking a while he was saying that some of them will get a million views and a very very short period of time and it's not like this crazy triple back whatever

[00:14:26] wind surfing thing it's just kid jumping off a bluff and it's just holding onto this wing and he's like it'll just explode so I don't know obviously that can go straight into hand gliding and then getting to some serious serious injuries but he himself was also surprised that

[00:14:45] how is this getting so much visibility like it's a kid jumping on holding something it must be the fun in the freedom aspect that like when surfing I found you have to earn it so you have to put

[00:14:56] in your five six seven eight years and then it becomes super fun. Citing kind of the same thing right like you have to learn your basics your fundamentals and then it can be super fun but it's

[00:15:05] like they just morphed and bridge together and then you got the fun aspect of citing and that kind of stuff all mashed together with this new foil and now the fun aspect I think is just exploding

[00:15:17] even higher. Yeah, no no I think totally that's one one thing I mean there's hardly anybody who falls more than three years no I mean from nowadays that the first guys that we're just experienced

[00:15:32] in the first the first year commercially year you could buy and the job was in 2019 and it was maybe two three brands so then I think we're really like let's say a lot of people started it

[00:15:44] was 2020 and 2021 and that's three years ago so there is no nobody really who put in more times and that yet except if you guys the word a pioneers but um and look at the level look

[00:16:00] what people are doing and this showed a lot of time it's mainly the kids that pushed them but yeah also the also the and for us on the tour you know we were we were already

[00:16:10] very little bit at the progression we'll already stop and we said like no we can't that can't happen it's like three years into the sport there is so much more to explore so now that's why

[00:16:20] for example we started this year with two new disciplines on the world are having a pure wave for the the guys you know who are not into doing double-pack flips or 720 or even 1080s

[00:16:31] but who want to surf so we got the pure wave discipline for people that come for pure surfing and they don't want to do back flips and and we added the bigger discipline where we're going to have

[00:16:43] our first event in a month from now oh yeah so we're going to see how high how high people can go we're going to have we're going to have our athletes going to go to wear sensors on their

[00:16:58] web suits so we're going to have life data on the hang time hide travel time in the air and uh we're going to figure out I mean I know couple of wings for this did that already but we

[00:17:10] want to see it on a competition that the best guys in the world see where is the limit at the moment okay what is the idea is it where it's at right now um yeah well I know that

[00:17:24] I think Titoan was already using a device last year just for fun to see how high he goes and I think he was like a 30 meters but he told me that that he there was not the highest jumps it

[00:17:36] didn't his life you know he was already bigger than that so I had to say but I think I would expect 15 meters plus especially in the place like also a grand canary I mean in the pumps

[00:17:48] it has regular winds of 40 to 50 knots so it's going to win whoa and we're hoping equipment can handle it's come a long way though like what um equipment obviously the first wings that you

[00:18:05] tried like what were those like compared to what they are now a night and day but kind of you'll see what your progression is through even the equipment you had Mauritius yeah well I mean

[00:18:16] very stoked very surprised already how good the equipment was already right in the beginning because with all the the brands having their experiences from wind surfing and citing already put into I think the first equipment is a well-level very very advanced actually for that time

[00:18:35] and I haven't thought that there's still so much room to progress in a short time but I think yeah I think that in wing and in foil development especially especially wing development a lot of

[00:18:49] progression has been done in the last 20 years mainly materials I think is not that the wings are totally different but they got more efficient being in the beginning I think most of the wings

[00:19:02] that I was using were not as powerful because you didn't want them that powerful you wanted wings that can be written neutral on a wave and flag out nicely and don't have too much pull but now

[00:19:15] you want to be able to use smallest possible wings I mean you want to have super powerful wings I mean I'm very heavy for example and I really like powerful wings because I can say about it

[00:19:26] on the small size and but that's for everybody else as well you know why you want to go it's quite a bit smaller if you have the same efficiency and way better handling

[00:19:37] and then obviously it's the materials yeah that there's a lot of R&D working to materials nice a lot of brands obviously at the event as well a lot of team riders using prototypes that they're testing that go into production sometime after and yeah there's a lot of

[00:19:58] material testing at the moment on the on the tubes now being allula now more more brands getting until allula or even other materials trying to get into maybe smaller diameters so you can make it more aerodynamic but still achieve the rigidity

[00:20:21] on the wing that it's needed and then also the canopy materials there's a lot of experiment that's the experiment from winter thing like more of similar to model film equipment you know I've been more stiffer lighter equipment but you always want to have it really depends

[00:20:41] on for what for what use you know and if you want to have a wing that's that's for pure racing that's another thing that I want to write on the waves yeah absolutely I'm even jumping

[00:20:52] but there has been yeah I'm I'm I'm I'm still surprised how much and even within half a year how big the steps were on the development of last years I think it's now if I look at it now

[00:21:06] 2023 and all the wings on the market I'm always keen to try a lot of different wings if I have the possibility to get my hands on it and and I can see now that these science are going

[00:21:18] more in a similar direction in the last years like this let's say the high performance wings that are super powerful made for people who you know who have a good level in winging are looking looking at it there are more similar shapes now from the different brands that

[00:21:35] has been two years ago yeah it can be tensions been a huge thing even shape and sizes a few brands that are going with more seashaped and they're kind of flatter the other ones are

[00:21:44] cutting off their wing tips a bit so they're a little bit better for for ways and for different things but yeah I guess we're gonna have to see where this goes and but hey for our listeners

[00:21:54] at home who are just getting to meet you for the first time can we walk them back a little bit and tell them a bit about you and how you found wind sports in the first place?

[00:22:03] Yeah I have to take really far back though but so well I okay let's start like this well I come from Austria Vienna so I come from a landlord country father was shouldn't that's

[00:22:21] how I don't start it so I didn't grow up in the notion place I grew up in the middle of the city in the middle of Europe but that's been a very active sailor sailing boats so I've been with wind

[00:22:39] water sports and sailing since it's a very young age but you never did any board sports and then I've been sailing for some three years old and then I was about 14 years maybe yeah but it was always

[00:22:52] felt like this is for old people I was like no I know I need something with more action and then I was 14 years old and in our mailbox I found on the day a catalog a brochure of wind

[00:23:08] surf shop and I opened it and I sold it and I sold it and I sold the pictures of you know robbing Nash in Hawaii and all the icons at the time we were in Dunkin back and you know doing jumps

[00:23:20] the winds of the board I was like no this is what I want to do you know this is why why do I'm saying this is what I want to do so I yeah so I persuaded my mom to get me a wind surfing gear

[00:23:34] from my birthday and I had no idea I had no idea what I actually needed so at that time there wasn't before internet time it was 94 or all it's not just started but there was not a lot

[00:23:47] on internet yet at the time and yeah so I opened the newspaper you know in the bus are like buying it selling a second half equipment and I said oh I don't know what I actually need but

[00:24:01] like my mom has a house at the lake in Austria okay at the lake where it's never probably on a good day it's 12 knots so it's really light wind okay and yeah so not really an ideal

[00:24:16] wind to the spot you know now there's a lot of falling there actually at the lake but at that time so well I went through this brochure so I said well I need this wave board and a race sale

[00:24:29] so things that are really not compatible but I had no idea so we went to buy this equipment from my guy and I had then I never went to the wind surfing school I just bought a book online

[00:24:43] called Hardlearn Win surfing in 10 hours right this book no way anytime and we've this book I was standing on the on the lake on the shore of the lake with my equipment I remember it was April

[00:24:56] it was a it's a mountain lake it's really cold it was about 10 years water temperature so I was I was wearing a dry diving suit I looked like a post-traumart if you know a dry diving suit with where

[00:25:10] your whole clothes under it so I didn't have a wet suit in it and I tried with this book to learn Win surfing with a board that was for an expert and not for a beginner and it was not very successful

[00:25:22] so yeah my mom saw that and she has yes she felt sorry for it then in the end um yeah she got me a little bigger board like a beginner board and with that board I started

[00:25:35] Win surfing with this book the whole song on the lake so I never did a lesson yeah well I wouldn't recommend that to anybody I think if I would have gone to a Win surfing

[00:25:46] school I would learn the like 10 times faster than what I did but well I was very obsessed with it let's say I was some I was just training Win surfing so that was my first year and then I

[00:26:00] and then from there on I went there as a good spot actually close to Vienna the best spot in Austria is a lake close to Vienna's half an hour so I didn't win surfing much until I had my

[00:26:10] driver's license and when I was 18 I was able to drive to lake myself and really go whenever whenever it was windy and yeah and then I started I started working because I really wanted to win

[00:26:24] surfing Austria was not the right place to do it all year round I started to work lot as an instructor so when I spent two years in Greece I was at Lake Gardeningtaly I was in Brazil

[00:26:36] around my 20 years old age 21 and I did a lot of training on Win surfing and I got quite in decent level and I went to university at the same time started studying international business

[00:26:50] management but yeah and then I started to do some competitions in Win surfing just for fun and yeah and actually did quite well so I wanted to do more competitions and also found my first

[00:27:09] one to know that time and like a magazine it's pretty cool you know yeah exactly you know I was there's a there was a link because because the product manager of Nash is Austria guy that I knew

[00:27:25] and you know so we come out and connect it so they started to support me give me some gear and yeah then I started competing on the European on the freestyle pro tour in Win surfing

[00:27:37] and in freestyle was just getting bigger at that time and yeah we had a lot of events and I've been traveling around the world competing in in the Win surfing and yeah I really enjoyed that I mean

[00:27:49] I never want a world title or European title but I've always yeah some good conditions yeah you sound good yeah I did some top 10 results I was in the top 10 most of the time but I never

[00:28:03] won a world cup or anything so never never been on the top top of it but yeah for me you know to be honest it was not so much about winning as most more experienced with you know traveling with friends

[00:28:15] and doing what we love to do and in the end I was super stoked to be able to you know to to to live out of my passion you know and that it couldn't save any money though I spend everything

[00:28:27] for the whole year competing but in the end I could you know I could I could do what I wanted to do I was still I was still studying at that time and then I went to Mauritius for study

[00:28:46] because I had to go somewhere for my for my international business studies and I wanted to go somewhere I can win so I said okay I want to go somewhere where I can make the most out of it

[00:29:00] and I had a friend who's been in Mauritius the year before and he told me I had to really could play I had no idea about this place so I went out I'm just going to go there for six

[00:29:08] months join the university for as much as I have to I just did like three lessons a week for like two hours each and the rest of the time I've been a beach and then yeah and then I showed up in

[00:29:22] Mauritius and it was in 2003 it was really early days here and you know there were some wind surfers but citing was just starting it was not a very popular spot at that time because they

[00:29:32] had it had an interesting image you know everybody talked about Mauritius everybody was saying I had to never withdraw with the it's full of sharks people died there all the time heavy localism

[00:29:43] and when I showed up in Mauritius I was like I mean this is paradise it's we need it's waves every day I don't know what everybody's talking about this place is amazing and then there's no telling anybody you know that's not right

[00:30:02] and but I mean it's a very accessible place easy to reach from anywhere it works all year out it's not something that kept secret for too long now and then also you know the wind surf

[00:30:18] centers and kites centers open here it's not a promoting it and obviously the place blew up pretty quick and citing especially but yeah I was just not a bit of citing at that time but because

[00:30:29] that was right you know into professional wind surfing I didn't want to waste too much time for anything else that we'd certainly it was really focused on training and being good in wind surfing

[00:30:38] so but yeah at some point and when I came to Mauritius that was my first contact with waves so I started writing wind surfing waves and I fell in love with it I was like man this you know

[00:30:51] now I'm here in the place three stars fun but this is the real stuff and so I started training waves and then competed in waves as well but I never did like the full world twin waves because

[00:31:08] I didn't really like the venues where the world was holding competitions I was more into really writing pure surf breaks like they had a Mauritius instead of doing jumping in the canary islands in 15 knots yeah so that was the wind surfing side of things I started competing

[00:31:25] then it waves and I really enjoyed it so I didn't I did more projects and organized a couple of events and joined a few competitions with good conditions but I was not doing the world tour in waves

[00:31:35] really because I didn't like the places that much we're not shooting my style of writing I was going to real pure surf wave writing and I did a couple of the wave classic competitions

[00:31:46] in Rio and on and for at the north shore in places and yeah and then in 2009 2009 I had a quite a bad accident and I had a crash just before the first event of the season

[00:32:01] in Austria and I broke my shoulder completely and I was out for the whole season basically and at that time the the European win surfing tour was looking for a race direct and had judge and the aspirated because I've been organizing events if I want to do it

[00:32:21] like well perfect I mean I still want to travel with my friends that I compete with now I'm organizing and helping as a judge or being the judge but I still going to do this okay

[00:32:31] I didn't need to be before so I started doing this being the head judge and race direct for the European win surfing tour and at the end of the season I was starting to you know

[00:32:43] I did rehab and my shoulder was back up again and yeah I was I wasn't writing for six months basically it happened in April and I started writing again in October and but yeah because I had fun doing it and organizing this events

[00:32:58] I and they asked me for one a continue I didn't really go back into competition in full competition anymore and started developing this path and then working with the PWA World Tour and the European tour and after also took over the tour management for the European tour

[00:33:15] because there was nobody doing it it was like a difficult time you know financial crisis 2009 nobody had money to do events and yeah so I started building this tour again at that year and yeah I ran the European win surfing tour since then 20 2009 until basically

[00:33:39] still kept it going and we built it up to have been quite a good level and yeah I've been after a couple of years later I've been out of 2014 or 15 I decided to move to Mauritius

[00:33:56] because I was not really yeah I didn't have to stay anywhere in the place for a job so I could do it from everywhere and I felt like I was traveling at that time like six months on tour in

[00:34:10] a year and then I would three months in Austria and three months in my I came back to Mauritius every year after I started here I came back every year for like three months of training because I just

[00:34:18] liked the place and so at one point in years later I said I went out and put my multiple based down here so so I moved to Mauritius in 2014 started the business about water sport

[00:34:30] tourism here we are you know we were running a guest house apartment, villa's a car entrance equipment rental for wind surfing surfing SUP then now I still run this business now

[00:34:44] having now we have a little wing-foiling school we you know and wing-foil equipment I import a couple of brands that we sell here on the island but not a huge market so anyways so so I have a small business

[00:34:59] here with water sports tourism but I've been still running the wind surfing tour and then in 2017 I had my my partner in my colleague Jurgen approaching me and saying like hey you know we have

[00:35:12] just started the GK which was the kind new kind to where the time started in 2015 and my interest it to work on the tour for some events and the beginning has said like I don't know I'm

[00:35:25] pretty busy with the wind surf tours the world tour in the European do it I've been doing most like all the events basically yeah I don't know if I have time for that and then guiding was a bit you

[00:35:37] know like difficult at that time in terms of how the tour was organized it was changing every year and there was not like a very clear structure but Jurgen helped him at some of the kind of

[00:35:51] event like he and Mauritius and he well I really liked his vision you know where he wanted to take the kite export and what he said the idea is on we were talking for months and time to time

[00:36:07] and then one point I said like when they show me the calendar which events asked me to do it was like well actually fits in my calendar why not let's do it okay and I did just like for one discipline

[00:36:18] and started to manage the kite tour and then by the end of that year there was 2018 a date a few events well we were talking and yes be okay what do you think this is no tour

[00:36:32] need you know to you know to excel to be bigger and that's all the well I think you need a tour manager because it's somebody who really dedicated his time to run the thing and not only go

[00:36:41] to a few events but not expecting myself actually to do that but he said well you want to do it and picking some well if I do that I have to obviously scale down on some other things I do so

[00:36:56] we found an agreement in the end and said okay let's go ahead and then in the following year the tour got even bigger than I thought because all the disciplines came to get on the one roof

[00:37:09] so instead of it was only a wave to a before the GK and then at that time it came freestyle under the wing and bigger and harder for a game the year later so in 2019 we had quite a big tour

[00:37:20] ready that I was running the whole tour management for the kite tour and yeah it was all starting super well going into 2020 even more promising even more than and then the pandemic yeah

[00:37:34] so we've been yeah so we've been slowing down on the kitor and we were still you know we didn't want to shut it down so we were organizing and working on some project developing an online competition

[00:37:49] we did a world cup that was fully online so really did the world the world athletes had to record their heats wherever they were in the world and then we basically built it to get like a live stream

[00:38:02] so if you watch it it was looking like a live stream they competing against each other fully judged obviously everything edited beforehand it was not a real live competition but they didn't see

[00:38:13] what the others do so they had a certain criteria of tricks they needed to do anyway that gets too much in detail but it wasn't all like competition called the distance battle and

[00:38:23] and so we were trying to push through that year and then yeah and then this was the year 2020 where I got yeah we had locked down and remember we had the first event of the season in K-Virti

[00:38:35] for hiding I came back to Mauritius a week after the event luckily I would say and we later the island shot it's the airport for a long time and I was lucky to be here because my girlfriend

[00:38:51] been here you know running the company together and if I would not have been here at that moment probably would not have come back to for six months and we were not able to enter

[00:39:01] so I was lucky to be Mauritius and you know how it was and then we started nobody knew what's gonna happen how long it's gonna take we were just waiting so well we've been locked up in a house

[00:39:11] basically for three months and then it opened up and Mauritius was interesting because they shut down the the airport within the we had three cases on the island and today after six in the morning the airport was closed oh yeah so no flights in no flights out

[00:39:29] yes yes yes it's gonna shut it super hard it's super market closed but because of that strict lockdown here and being an island being isolated it got on the control very quick so we've

[00:39:44] in two months we had no more cases on my land okay and after three months the island didn't open its airport in sporters but it opened up let's say normal life again

[00:39:57] there were no no masks because we had zero cases on the island there was no mask required it was more parties than ever well and Europe everything was completely crazy oh yeah

[00:40:06] and we were living in the bubble here and that's and that's where that's where we came along exactly and we before they came along and then suddenly yeah so I explained earlier

[00:40:19] I know I had some files I got some wings from a friend who wasn't here because it wasn't there so hey going my garage take the wing and have fun so we started wing falling and then

[00:40:28] we were a bunch of people like Willow, Willow River is not from hiding now really into winging two and a couple of others which just met every day at the beach you know like four

[00:40:39] five friends everybody brought his gear some kick-ups for us some wings of a board said billboards even because it took six months to get equipment here you know there was no there

[00:40:49] was no ship and to get to brushes I bought a wingboards it took six months to get here so we had to figure something out to write now so we've been we've been just like yeah it was epic

[00:41:01] I mean he was like he was this you know kind of pioneer trying era times we were just meeting at the beach you know trying whenever somebody brought a new piece of wing of board

[00:41:14] a fall everybody wanted to try and yeah and we're in the riding outside you know and all of us you know my girlfriend myself willow the guy who has a surf shop here and yeah and then very

[00:41:29] quickly actually the old came from this level of wind surfing and kay surfing so we wanted to take it to the waves pretty quick and went out when out there on those big waves and Mauritius

[00:41:39] in some way was a crazy season I remember it's been like pumping non stop wind and waves like really like big days okay and yeah we we've been we've been riding every day with with these

[00:41:53] I would say you know like first phase equipment and um and that was the moment as I explained why I realized the potential of this sport and then in 2020 the same year the summer

[00:42:06] you're going to get around the gig the cipher also and we said well let's do the wing let's do a wing association and then we said well let's do an event and and and we were we were you know

[00:42:20] came up with a concept for a foil event and tried to to get some somebody to run that and buy that that concept basically and it was 2020 I mean was the first pandemic year there were no events

[00:42:33] there was no traveling but you had an organized and Brazil who was crazy enough to say yes let's do it okay and yeah and it was in November 2020 so we said okay let's do it let's go to Brazil

[00:42:47] and run the first wing for the World Cup or not really World Cup the first event the first World Tour event and it was a heavy called it the foil um the super foil event in Fort Bel�za

[00:42:59] in December 2020 we invited all like let's say the pioneers of the sport that we're at that moment there and all like thoughts were like Tito and Galea saying she wants a Kylie any like all the the guys

[00:43:13] who were like pushing the sport at that time not everybody came but we had thoughts we had Titoan they had Kali Ciai we had uh yeah bunch of we had like about 20 guys and the few girls that showed up

[00:43:26] it's enough and I remember everybody was saying hey you cannot go to Brazil this is the hell on earth you know in the media it was just like the worst place to ever travel at that moment

[00:43:37] everybody has got Kobe you know and we said well well we're gonna give the try you know we were even short you can't sit already but we made it we traveled there we got everybody of these

[00:43:48] 20 guys to get to Brazil and it was totally different than the media explained you know I mean we keep were pretty easy going in Brazil nobody used masks and what a lot of parties it was

[00:44:01] yeah they were doing the thing like recipients too so um yeah so we run this foil event and this for me was an really really amazing experience doing this event because we had no idea what these guys

[00:44:14] gonna show us um all of these people have never written before with each other then only new each other from from social media they only knew what other guys do on social media they had never

[00:44:25] seen each other on a wing for before so and it was really really special especially week we stayed therefore week and these 15 or 20 guys were riding every day all day together with for without

[00:44:38] competition you know it was not so much who wins this thing it was just they were guys like Kali or Miso Fernandez who comes from a really good surf for background yeah had guys from

[00:44:47] guiding background guys from wind surfing background guys from surfing background or no background and you know you could see Balsbella who was kind of the let's say the top guy on the freestyle side

[00:45:01] and anything new moves all the times but that didn't have the way of experience the conditions were like 50% way 50% freestyle and you know and they were pushing each other's level within this week the guys who couldn't surf learn surfing the guys who couldn't freestyle learned freestyle

[00:45:21] and all of them went out of the week with double or triple the level they went into the week it was so amazing to see it was amazing to see you know and um yeah and that for me this was a

[00:45:33] really unique experience you know to be there doing the first half event that's special and seeing all these guys yeah that are you know the ambassadors of the sport at that moment on still

[00:45:47] and seeing you know what's possible and how quick they still progress and while being in Brazil you know we had pretty strong media from this event and all the world you know was watching

[00:45:58] what's going on you know like all the wing football okay yeah and we still not all the but the people were doing we'd love that and while being in Brazil you'll be already signed the

[00:46:13] second event for just two months for just a month later in Tarefa said like guys we want to have the same thing we want to have the wing for well-twebent in Tarefa and it did like after Christmas

[00:46:24] in New Year the next event already there was no them mid November we did the event in Fortalesa and we signed the ready to second event for six weeks later in Spain oh just like yeah yeah yeah

[00:46:39] yeah it was like hey it's so cool what do you guys do we want to have the same thing in Spain let's do it and then yeah and then we said like come on I mean these four people working on the format

[00:46:51] obviously you know we're like okay how can a freestyle or wave comp or racing comp or whatever look like so we were experimenting with it you know what do you think is there the cool format does this work for

[00:47:01] you what's you know isn't fun and and then yeah and then the year after you said well let's do the first tour let's crown that first role champion you know in 2021 so and yeah after these two events

[00:47:16] we really got I think five or six organizers for 2021 we're ready to have the budget and it was still pandemic restrictions you know traveling easy that the time need around in events a lot

[00:47:27] of events in 2021 we run where without spectators it wasn't allowed to have spectators at events Turner yeah so so we we went to France super restricted everybody had to daily covid tests you know

[00:47:40] all the crew all the athletes those spectators allowed it was a pure media event yeah so in 2021 we ran the first year with two disciplines so every star like a mix of waves and three star

[00:47:55] depending on the conditions and like a slalom discipline we never really wanted to go to deep into the pure racing thing so we really always wanted to really focus on on on on on the in as

[00:48:08] all the advantages there's a foil hat so downwinding wanted to do more downwind pumping and these kind of things so we've been running the first world tour I think we had to stop in France that was the

[00:48:20] first one we did one in was the next one there was one in Tarif again there was one in Brazil again there was one in Switzerland and in Morocco yeah in Morocco and Morocco was epic Morocco was like the

[00:48:37] first way to them like that that place in Morocco is it's just a perfect surf foil point break 300 made the long ride hander with some breaks when it's small and if a lot of surf oils go there

[00:48:54] because when we was very light I mean it's a bit stronger when you could you can win for there so we did the first way to remember we even had live streaming the event that was our first event live stream

[00:49:03] and yeah and suddenly also the organizers there understood that this way is we had a kind of in there and we had a wing event there we did both back to back and we had awesome conditions

[00:49:17] and there was the first time we really ran a pure surf thing and yeah from there it just got bigger and bigger in 2022 we crowned the first world champions 21 and these two disciplines

[00:49:30] men and women and then 22 we had already lost you we had already more events and we had I think last we had six or seven and this year we were at 12 12 events on the world tour pretty close

[00:49:43] by the back too yeah pretty close back to back so I was talking to our friend Max Robinson who's writing for SESHA and he was going from spot to spot to spot and checking in with us at home all the

[00:49:55] and he had pretty jam packs together actually yeah yeah I mean this year but we really feel is that the pandemic restrictions are kind of over so now traveling to nearly every country

[00:50:07] was easy we still had issues last year you know you couldn't get into every country depending if you're vaccinated or not or from where you're coming you couldn't run it then so it was still

[00:50:17] a bit difficult but this is just this year the first year where it seems to be very open again nearly everywhere and yeah and they demand on you know as I explained there's a couple of new venues that

[00:50:30] you've been running where you maybe wouldn't run a kind of in full event and then there's a couple of events that have been running win surf or coying in the past and now keep to do something new

[00:50:41] so yeah it turned out obviously we want to really try to make it as global as possible not being too much Europe focused with the tour it will always be the main place probably because

[00:50:52] it's the biggest market for the sport and it's you know there's just a lot of people keen to do events at compete Europe we board in other continents but really trying I mean

[00:51:03] this year we had New Zealand and Capirdy France yeah now now we have basically all the Europe except in August we go to Rio de Janeiro for the next wave event and then just been in

[00:51:16] China two weeks ago for seeing a new location in China where we might do an event in the October. Oh really? So first event in Asia and it's a really cool location actually I've been there

[00:51:31] and there was a Chinese event at the same time with 130 people I cried and winged for it but yeah it's a big it's a big community there it's growing a many good spots so yeah it's been

[00:51:46] it's been it's been going steep right now I think we know this year we added two more disciplines with the pure wave discipline because we found out that the surf freestyle discipline we've been

[00:51:58] running and of course we have more freestyle or entertainment events it kind of excluded those guys who are not really good freestyles but I could wave by that says why should I go to an event you

[00:52:08] know I can't do 1080 720 is backflips I can ride these in waves but all of your competitions are freestyle so that's why we wanted to come up with a discipline for these kind of people because

[00:52:21] there are a lot of people that ride waves from the foil but are not in freestyle and yeah and we did the first event in Cape Verde which was insane I think this year there was a lot of people in

[00:52:34] before the event who were saying you can't foil this way a ponte operator that's too hardcore. Oh yeah that's what of a neighbor that I went surf with and he went and sailed there for two

[00:52:45] months and he comes home when he explains this to me and he's like it's just jacked up thing and it's like then you got what 10 feet and it's reef and it's rock and you know the other than pros goes

[00:52:56] there were two or three things and so to hear that you're going to launch there we're like whoa how is this going to go? Yeah well we said Cape Verde we did you know yeah I didn't say who spots

[00:53:07] now we had two spots that we could run that was ponte operator because ponte operator doesn't work every day you know you need to be lucky actually to have it working and there's the other

[00:53:15] spot that works nearly every day which is kind of beach it's more like an onshore spot. So yeah and a lot of the riders were even an industry of saying well you're going to go have to go to

[00:53:26] kite beach because you know that's most suitable for falling but we said well I mean we go to Cape Verde because there are good waves and if the waves are there we want to do it where the waves are good

[00:53:40] and there was a lot of a kind of few riders like Kali and D2 on and you know who go Malan like the top wave guys we're like guys I didn't come here to ride on kite beach I wanted to do this

[00:53:51] I wanted to put up a predator and so um and that's what I had to do as well we said like well if it works we're going to do it and we had a decent forecast well decent was not huge but was good

[00:54:05] and said like well it's on um we were running kite event before it was a combined event with kite surfing and wing we did kite we had the forecast for like five days the first two and a half

[00:54:15] day with kite and then we had another swell hitting and wind was there and we said well let's go ponte and a lot of the competitors haven't even been out at the break before they're heat even once

[00:54:29] yeah yeah yeah really man but after the first day everybody was so stoked that it was that easy and easy but that easy and good to ride I mean they were all guys with high level you know

[00:54:44] there was no body I have to say in that comp that didn't have to level to ride there they were good for us man as woman you know and um yeah and they were all riding on ponte predator

[00:54:58] and the action was insane and I would have like a really good life streaming about maybe watching it but it was you know I wasn't sure it and we were and the show was that good also

[00:55:09] on that it reminded me so much of though wind surfing days in ponte apparently you know the drama that happened you know people get washed onto the rocks climbing out of the rocks

[00:55:19] blue-winning their heat and running down to the beach taking the next year of getting out back on the water it was a real fight with nature but not too hard for at all you know I have to say

[00:55:29] there was way less equipment trash than I thought and then expect oh really yeah that's what we are all here yeah no because you compare to wind surfing for example where once you

[00:55:41] allocate with heights or if you can even more say if you just pull the kite and you get back out the wind is off shore on wind surfing if you get washed you lose your gear it happens most of

[00:55:50] time that the mask gets stuck into the rocks on the beach no and I have to say I mean there is it's one of the best waves in the world for wind sports if you like waves

[00:56:00] doesn't matter if it's on the kite or wind surf or foil but there are the waves I mean Mauritius has the same quality of waves but what ponte predator is so special about it's so close to the beach

[00:56:10] it's like it it's the perfect arena like you would ride a wave and you hear the crowds screaming on the beach while you're riding oh it's like a little clown see I'm big yeah it's

[00:56:20] stepped close I mean you basically on the rocks and the guys the surface even get paralleled like 30 meters in front of you so the spot is like it couldn't get any better for a competition

[00:56:33] then ponte predator run and yeah so we we had this and the wind surfing if you get that close to the rocks you can stuck the mask at the reef and break the mask and the equipment gets broken but

[00:56:44] the the wings actually they don't get sucked under the waves they're usually you know all right can break onto the wing and the wing a glad I can explode if it's too much pressure but that's

[00:56:54] very rare this happens usually the wing gets out of the wave and the wide world takes it up on the rocks and the water pulls out and the wing just stays there and no okay people on the on on the rocks

[00:57:05] you grab the wing and take it out obviously the forest get damaged a bit but not more and it Mauritius I mean if I go out here I mean I hit my foot on the reef twice and the session is normal

[00:57:16] if it's shallow and and yeah so so actually I think I don't know we had probably 30 people going on the rocks in the whole comp and I would say I would have seen maybe five, six wings

[00:57:30] getting damaged by no more that's pretty impressive yeah yeah I was surprised about that too yeah so you know when the people found out that is actually not such an issue to write there

[00:57:43] everybody was going you know everyday was pushing out and going more than before and we're taking more risk and yeah it's been a pretty I really loved the event I think it was a big eye

[00:57:55] open for the whole wing falling world where a lot of people were you know criticizing before saying you can't foil in these kind of waves but I know I know everybody wants to go to this kind of waves

[00:58:11] not saying to get you know we're not going to chopoo or like super heavy waves but you can go to decent reef breaks with power who waves on the foil. To end the foils are changing

[00:58:22] so fast now that they're being then it's a lot easier for you to ride that kind of equipment and yeah I think it's just going to keep pushing which is going to be unreal. Hey what about

[00:58:32] for those people who are just starting to follow the world tour what do you think about maybe going into describing the different kinds of events because I'm on the site right now we

[00:58:42] got national events we got qualifying you got youth world cups race class world cups could we go a bit into maybe describing those yeah okay no problem we well we have the world the wing

[00:58:56] full world tour is basically the roof above everything that in the wing full world tour we have obviously the highest level which is the world cup events so the world cup events are the ones that are

[00:59:08] crowning the world champion so we are running for disciplines this year meaning in each discipline we're going to crown a male and the female world champion which is the winner out of the series of events

[00:59:20] so it's not only just one event so we have let's say in surf freestyle we have six or seven events and three flights larlam as well in waves we have free events and in big area of only one

[00:59:35] to explain the disciplines a little bit surf freestyle is yeah a combination of freestyle wave it's focused on freestyle but if they are rideable waves we also count wave rides but only with a maximum of 50% so 50% minimum 50% of the judging must be freestyle jumps okay so if for

[00:59:56] example two waves would count at least two jumps must count it cannot be two waves one jump well in the pure wave discipline for example is no jumps a lot that's pure surfing

[01:00:12] and even at the moment we I mean we always we have a very active riders committee max Robinson is one of the guys in the riders committee that we meet every month to develop the sport

[01:00:23] to discuss about how we should change formats and at the moment in the wave disciplines pure surfing so you can do airs on the wave while riding the wave but you cannot use the wing

[01:00:34] so you cannot do a fact that with the wing on the wave so if you do an aerial maneuver it must be with the wing the power on the front handle actually I just saw some me's of there was just

[01:00:46] putting at some videos on YouTube when he was doing some back flips just just surf oil and yes all that's going to come into play now exactly you can do a back flip but not like you do it

[01:00:57] in freestyle so you need to release the wing do the back flip without the wing and he can ride out that's for now but let's see how the discipline is going to develop but we wanted to have a very

[01:01:06] clear line between surf freestyle and wave and not that extent because it's different riders too we don't have to same freestyle guys you know winning the waves unless they really know how they can

[01:01:17] properly ride waves and so we have the wave discipline the surf freestyle discipline we have the big air discipline which we are going to launch now for the first time and I'm very curious how the next

[01:01:30] event is going to turn out with that because obviously we do it some of the waves windy but post-so Grand Canara is probably one of the most windy places in the world and with

[01:01:40] a minimum 30-35 knots every day in July or more. When you're going to do like a figure for kidding and just grab like a five meter or six meter and go out and 40 I'm curious see what they're

[01:01:53] going to pick for sizes yeah me too me too I mean I told all of them to bring small things to get a canara for the rest of the disciplines yeah but definitely the guys were going

[01:02:04] these like fairly big wings for the wind and you know as I do stickers and I'll try to try to see how big they can go and then we have the free place out of the discipline where I want

[01:02:16] to explain a little bit because there is often some misunderstanding this is not a racing discipline in the classic sense so it's not a discipline where it's about you know what you see in wind surfing

[01:02:28] or hydrating or sea of what racing is a start line and then you go up wind and downwind and it's about the reason why we didn't want to push in that direction is we didn't want to

[01:02:38] make it to equipment dependant you know it shouldn't be just a guy who has the best for being the guy who can win we want a discipline that is I would say a little bit border cross

[01:02:48] like where at more the skill to the rider other than the equipment make difference so so this discipline is build like a wind surfslah along in terms of the elimination system so you have heat of 12 people

[01:03:04] and the top six go to the next round and the courses are fairly short so there is not like in classic racing you might have one two miles upwind you know you're super far away but

[01:03:15] all the disciplines we want to create are very spectator or entated and are very media or entated in terms of live streaming we want to build a really good show that's the main idea

[01:03:24] of our product let's say so this discipline is really I think it's super exciting but it needs to have the right conditions obviously so now we renamed it into a free flight slalom to make it

[01:03:38] even more clear what it is about and we have really short courses in a way most of our races are between two and three minutes not longer and so it's really really short from start to finish

[01:03:52] couple of boys we don't do really long tax so most of the distances between the goods is maybe a number of meters so it's not so much about fobspeed to really a lot about

[01:04:00] we try to build very technical parts where you need to drive and tack very closely around boys so it's a lot about the technique how you manage that for example yeah some courses have

[01:04:10] triangles where you need to do a 360 around but you cannot do a copy 360 need to attack and drive around it and everybody does it in a different way and if the conditions allow every course

[01:04:21] must have a section a free flight section where you're not allowed to use the wing so you either need to ride to swell and read the bombs well on the down in part or you need to pump

[01:04:32] and for example in New Zealand we had really nice races with the down in where it was open ocean so there was a solid brown swell solid wind so people where we had I think 70% of the course

[01:04:47] was not with the wing without wing so right at the start line you had to release the wing read the ocean about 500 meters down in of the pumps until the next we do one drive to another

[01:04:59] drive and then another free flight section into the finish and you could really see that those guys like from Hawaii they do a lot of downwind in the ocean well and not you know they have

[01:05:09] those guys pump the whole fire from the meters and they come out on the beach they exhausted and then you have the other guys who are just like picking the right bumps and you know go from left

[01:05:19] to the right and exactly and that's what we want to focus obviously it's quite technical but that's what we want to push for you know and and we don't want to see guys riding on a

[01:05:32] 500 square meter square centimeter kite race foil to wind and be fast and fully powered on the wing we want to see people on a high efficient high aspect that's fast too but it has all the

[01:05:45] glad that you can ride this all the wing and that's the foils that you would also buy in a shop you know that's what people want to look for and rather than you know having a 5000 euro race

[01:05:57] foil that nobody really needs as a moment and consume it just for a few people in the world cup so that's a little bit the idea that we have like that concept yeah like that concept because

[01:06:10] you if you got hurt you got your bigger which everybody loves to watch because they're curious what's gonna happen you got your surf freestyle stuff but then you're connecting that fun aspect

[01:06:20] that a lot of people can practice is anywhere like I almost feel like the racing component of it is something that has been done but now you can get kids and everybody practicing a little

[01:06:29] stuff on their beach front like so it's smart I like it yeah exactly this is and that's well now it's clear up a little bit more in the past and pretty thought it's a pure racing and some

[01:06:39] people showed up at the event and they had to do these courses and they were like but we wanted to race masala we don't race we do freeze flies long are we really our idea is showing like putting the

[01:06:52] downwind aspect of falling into a competition format and and so on and so on and we saw obviously we had we have events like in like heart when it was flat water and you don't have

[01:07:04] any wind swell and then this free file acts are short time you need to pump all of it you need to use bigger foils and it's shorter but when the open ocean allows for example

[01:07:13] the ranking area it's gonna be downwind with 35 knots and big wind jobs is gonna be perfect you can easily without being a pro ride a kilometre on this bumps without a wing that's what's coming next because we talked to Andrew there of KT and the new boards and

[01:07:30] stuff that's coming out for downwinding it's gonna it's gonna be unreal yeah exactly and then so this is a pretty exciting concept and this year we were as I said even more going in more

[01:07:40] extreme in that direction and actually the athletes really like it they they like this format on the right conditions so this is these are the four disciplines in the world cup and then we

[01:07:51] have also continent legends so they are continental championships we just had a month ago the Europeanzid France which is just one event where it's about the continent titles also in was surf freestyle and freefriest lala minis to disciplines and then we will probably do a self

[01:08:10] American one the aim is to have one in every continent but so far we don't have organizations in every continent but we're gonna probably do an African one in Morocco and we're going to

[01:08:19] do it Brazil as South African one as South American one and hopefully next year maybe some other ones two Asian and North American and then we have the youth world cup where last year we've been

[01:08:33] running actually two events but this year we went back to one because we saw that in the end there's not that many kids or parents let's say that can afford or have the time to go to a

[01:08:46] series of events around the world to crown the youth world champion you know they are not pros yet so we went back to do just one event but one proper event and so everybody wants to compete

[01:08:58] can come to this one event and the winner gonna be the youth world champion where there is different age category starting of the 19 under 16 under 14 by the way in the world cup the age level is

[01:09:09] 14 so you cannot compete in the world cup if you're young and in 14 okay so it gets kids on the time and this one so the youth world cup is coming up it's June 29 to July 2nd

[01:09:22] yeah also the canary so there will be a bunch of those hopefully you do the other events and the canaries too but we do one event for youth and then we have also the qualifying series because what

[01:09:36] happened was that already last year we started to get so many registrations and events at world cup events that we hardly have the time you know in France we would have a hundred people

[01:09:49] registering for the world cup and it just takes too much time like you you you get to the point where you can hardly finish an event if you do a free stock competition of 50 people it takes

[01:10:04] three to four days to run that and minimum so now the conditions are good if the conditions are well you can do it that same in two days if it's long days of 10 hours but you know a lot of sports

[01:10:18] you might have we know the after the moment it's way too long so this year we started to limit the world cup to last year we had 48 in freestyle and 80 in the free-fledged Harlem and this year we went down to Slalom 48 and in in freestyle now we are

[01:10:37] again in the canaries we only gonna have 28 so but because of that obviously there must be a proper way to qualify to get in because now we have only one a compete that can get a spot so we started

[01:10:51] last year of running qualifying events is a small event where you can collect points to get in get a ranking to qualify for the world cup as well as the continental championships so at the

[01:11:03] continental championships you collect points to get into the world cup and yeah please help you to get in we'll see how that turns out this year and how we're gonna move on with that structure but

[01:11:14] that's the way it is right now the different levels you you you you have of events I know it's something a bit confusing but it's not that it's not that difficult basically you have world cups

[01:11:28] continental so separate one events and then you have a qualifying structure on it we also each event so the top 16 of the of the world ranking are always pre qualified for the event

[01:11:41] for the next event so if you're in the top 16 of the seeding list you have a spot guaranteed in the next event and then you have this qualifying series where you can collect points to get in

[01:11:51] and then you can also because there are people that would live in New Zealand that wouldn't you know qualifying events and everywhere they couldn't go to qualifiers you can still submit

[01:12:03] video applications so when you want to enter the world cup as a new person you can submit videos for freestyle and for waves and for bigger and then the top four one or the top five actually

[01:12:16] of each of of the events that send the video just five best videos that are not pre qualified they get spotted to the event as well and then you got some prize money in every single category

[01:12:28] yeah and then I can go towards some of those top writers okay so then we got all those and then so coming up there yeah the future event is the next one which is in the

[01:12:39] canaris end of the month and then we go to canary islands, Grand Canaria which is going to run three disciplines so that's gonna be the only event with three best plans this year surf freestyle, free flight, salam and pigea and then right after we go to 40 Ventura just

[01:12:55] the next island so most of the people going to both of these events for surf freestyle and free flight salam as well and then 40 later we go across the pond to Brazil Rio de Janeiro

[01:13:09] for the next wave of the year for the pure way of the final be exciting yeah and that place is going to be exciting because this event is going to run in Sakarema which is the same spot

[01:13:18] with a WSL around this surf thing event oh no way yeah it's gonna be sweet and so we're gonna do that it's gonna be a pure wave event and then after that we have beginning of

[01:13:36] September Denmark we go north north on Europe for the first time because we haven't had any event up there yet with surf freestyle and free flight salam again so that's gonna be more cold

[01:13:49] weather than but it can have really nice waves and conditions up there but it's not not all the like for the pure wave event we're really going to choose only spots that have quite good guarantee

[01:14:00] of running pure waves everything that might be like a semi half-half thing we run in the surf freestyle and then right after that we go to at the end of September to Morocco

[01:14:14] for the final wave of the year wave season pure wave and that's what we're going to crown the wave world champion in Morocco and that's going to be quite exciting too I think that's

[01:14:27] as I explained before I think it's an amazing spot for falling one of the best I've seen in terms of you know it's not like Ponto Prepa it's not as powerful it's a little bit more

[01:14:39] better but really playful to ride on a foil now guys yeah now that's gonna be unreal and also like really nice to watch actually because it's super close to the beach but it's a very long wave it's a really long right end point 300 point meters on good days

[01:14:59] and we just often a bit like but that's fine on the foil and yeah what does like mean for people at home yeah like I would say 12 knots 10 to 12 knots 12 knots no I mean the guys I know most of them

[01:15:20] don't go on too big gear but on five meter wings and I mean in the way it's a lot of them right very small boards that's more the issue so some of them have to pick up bigger boards to

[01:15:30] be able to start in the lives but yeah I'd say 12 knots around 12 knots we can run a foil event on the waves in freestyle it's nice to have a bit more to be able to do proper jumps but people are

[01:15:47] hard and stuff yeah we had we were also running a couple you know of sessions where we had the ski and brought people back on the ski, back on the foil by ski assistance you know if they can't start

[01:16:02] but with the side of the riders that we're not gonna allow it for competition at the moment because it's a you know it's an outside fact that it can influence if one rider you know there's one

[01:16:11] ski and maybe it can help only one rider the guy could get on the foil earlier the other one that's not even wouldn't be fair but if the competitors agree on it and they want to use the

[01:16:22] ski we can obviously do that because once you fly you fly even at lighter winds and you can ride waves unless you start them further back or something and they had to pump on because I don't know

[01:16:33] yeah there could be a lot of technicalities involved with that yeah it's it's a bit of basically it's not a problem but imagine you two guys ride a wave and they both fall at the end

[01:16:46] of the wave the jet skis only gonna pick up one and if it's not you true gonna be complaining yes yeah that's fair enough and then the other guy gets the other wave and then or whatever so yeah

[01:17:00] I understand that could get a little little precarious so then after that when there's Tareef Spain October yeah there's Tareef is gonna be pure freestyle and then Brazil with the final

[01:17:14] end of the year being surf freestyle and free flight and then we have two events that are not on the calendar that I can tell you are possible to happen that is a lot in October as well before

[01:17:28] Tareefa that event wasn't the tour last year and was supposed to happen actually before rank in the area but for political reasons because there was elections in Spain last week they couldn't

[01:17:38] secure the budget and now it looks like they're gonna have it but it's too short to get it now to announce it for July so they want to run it in October maybe by the time confirmed yet

[01:17:50] and then the one in China that have been just wait two weeks ago that will super excited the writers internally informed about it ready they could happen could be the last if it happens it

[01:18:00] would be the last week of October before we go to Brazil I think that'd be a pretty exciting thing and bringing that stuff over there because there's a bunch of Facebook groups and I started following a whole bunch of them and there's there's micro communities of surfing and

[01:18:12] wink for all the everywhere it'd be awesome to get over there not totally I was you know I was one of my second time in China I've been there once before but I was leaving for different reasons

[01:18:22] and yeah it's you know if you're talking about China so what are you doing there we're running with China but we just all of us we you know we don't see what's going on there but there's actually quite a lively community of water sports enthusiasts and people that

[01:18:41] have money to do these things in China so I was surprised that wasn't this event two weeks ago in China I saw the brand new gear laying around there so there was quite a lot of people

[01:19:00] doing doing wing-foiling and there is plenty of spots along the coast in China from the north you know whether you get well even north close to do Beijing but then you have the straight between

[01:19:12] Taiwan and China which is the strongest wind and then even down to Hong Kong we had a qualifying event in Hong Kong last year in December but yeah we we're planning to run the event in Hainan

[01:19:28] which is an island the south China sea and like an hour from Hong Kong and how do you line up like dates and forecasts and whatnot like obviously you'll know that certain conditions

[01:19:40] certain spots are better at certain times but how does that kind of aspect of to our operating work that takes a little finessing I'm assuming? Yeah so two weeks well that's a good question actually

[01:19:51] and I think that's the important questions for people to understand how does a wing-foil world cup actually come together yeah so it's not that we are just choosing where we want to go

[01:20:04] that would be super easy. We always depend on the local organization so the way a wing-foil event work is that there isn't local organizer certain places of the world says I want to do a wing-foil

[01:20:18] world cup and then he approaches us those guys I want to bring the world turn to my place and the local organizer gets for us it's impossible to to know anywhere in the world how logistics

[01:20:33] work the media side and get the permits and do all those things you always depend on the local organizer and this is also the person who gets the financing so the the world cup is

[01:20:44] financed by local organizers so that's organized I would say okay I want to get an event in Spain I want to bring the tour so he approaches us we tell him okay we're going to come with all our

[01:20:56] stuff with them know how to run the competition our media crew we generate all the media production the distribution we have certain media numbers we can show you the distribution we're working on very hard with media distributors actually we have a couple of contracts with

[01:21:13] live TV takers that show events on TV stations oh nice so there is we try to push now wing-foiling besides live streaming and you know the special interest media also into the

[01:21:26] mainstream media to really grow this sport this is one of our missions as well and so we have all those figures from past events say well this is the media values you've got to get out of your

[01:21:37] events you know that many TV stations and on the world can show it in newspapers online social media etc and then we we these organizers try to raise sponsorship money most of the events the money comes

[01:21:53] from I would say the destination itself because that's where they have most promotion out of it so if the event is in Grand Canary Amos that the budget would be from Canary Islands tourism

[01:22:03] saying we want to promote our place as a wing for sports world to a place being suitable because we know many people come for this sport to our country but in game we also private sponsors and

[01:22:15] these usually private sponsors as well in some countries it's only private sponsors and no public money so that depends but the personal organizing this the budget behind it is the local organizer so

[01:22:28] they're going to bring up the budget to pay us to come all the athletes going to come on their own costs put up the prize money and all the infrastructure for the event because in some events

[01:22:40] you know we if we are in Morocco in the middle of death of basically I mean it's more hard to set up an event you need to put everything in tents and it might be in a place where you have

[01:22:52] ready what a sports center or even a hotel right on the spot and you can use the infrastructure that's already given so that's why the costs of each event I actually not comparable you know

[01:23:03] some can be way more expensive than others and yeah so obviously we also you know through our networks and talking to organizers and explain well you could do something and offering it but basically there are local organizers from different spots that are one around this event

[01:23:22] right now or I want around this event this spot in Brazil and then we evaluate if well they know what's the best time to do it so they say our best time is between June and August, June the

[01:23:36] Ly August do you have this lot free where we can do it then we see if it works out that we can find the date that works for us in our calendar and it works for the organizer some of the events

[01:23:48] are really bound to holidays so they're not that flexible in the dates so well we need to do it around that public holiday it needs to be around I'm not a first of June for example they need

[01:23:58] to be around the first of June and if you have another event at the time and we cannot move it then only one of them can happen we're not going to do events at the same time so no need to

[01:24:08] be no that doesn't make sense yeah so that's how it's chosen and then obviously depending on the spot you choose to discipline now also talking with the organizer most of if it's a new place

[01:24:19] like China for example I tried to go there have this it check out the conditions check out the infrastructure and know if it's actually worth running an event there yeah it's definitely

[01:24:30] most of the places we we I know already from before or you know a lot about it because they already know what is sports world is kidding it's been surfing and you can rely on some and you can

[01:24:44] always happen and you get to an event then you have no wind that's part of the game if someone has it hasn't happened so far for a living in a pingo in such life conditions speed there

[01:24:54] and there was no event yet where we did get a result everywhere we had an event we got a result so far but it will happen at one point it's normal I think it's just like oh yeah you're gonna you're

[01:25:05] gonna know wind day for sure but at least this like you are dropping those margins a lot lower right like the wind you can get out in to do be successful it's maybe a little bit later it's really

[01:25:15] difficult I think actually to go to a place where you would run anything but as the weather is the weather and sometimes you can predict it no but yeah we we we have a pretty professional team also knowing

[01:25:29] you know how to use the best conditions sometimes if there's no other chance we we we start at six in the morning if that's the only time we're 20 now we had we have riders meeting sometimes in the

[01:25:40] dark in the body and started first at summer if it's necessary it's not something we like to do but if it's not the way to catch wind we do it so no fair enough and then all the all the

[01:25:52] athletes and are posting regularly kind of showcasing because I know there's a bit of they have to follow maybe some media requirements or media specs when they're on tour and competing and stuff I just read quickly through the the event bylaws there were just wearing jerseys and that

[01:26:07] kind of thing to help out but they are posting significantly through their sponsors online yeah this is part of the game so they they they when open athletes sign up to an event

[01:26:20] there is a race notice that's probably when you have seen on the events you can see those those notices these are not all there's a rule book as well and there's certain things that

[01:26:29] they need to do when they sign up to an event it's important that they for example they get on the water they need to wear the competition best because for the local they have the sponsor

[01:26:38] logos of the local organized on and we cannot use any photos or videos of them without wearing that that's a part of the contract with the organized but then it's really important same thing if

[01:26:49] the organized ones tend to wear the jersey and the podium you have to wear it because it says all the logos of the sponsors on it and when it's any social we really like we have a very good

[01:27:00] working media crew so that works with those if our riders we make it very easy and accessible for them to get content so we have a photograph that's uploading pictures multiple times a day on

[01:27:10] a platform that the riders of access to they can get the newest photos right away and our media manager is putting it in the groups of events and if you post content you need to use these hashtags

[01:27:21] for that organized so for them it's pretty much okay take the photo take this of hashtags put it together so send it out all right that's a pretty clean ship you're writing that's awesome

[01:27:33] yeah i think i like it's nice for a lot of people who are like we can worse for example to get an idea of all the effort and all the time that gets put into some of these events because we don't

[01:27:43] always know right so and we're not as connected to it there but it's nice to know that we can live stream we can follow you can catch it with your favorite athlete and you're also so if there are

[01:27:55] organizers out there for example there are still possibilities of adding others other spots right oh yeah yeah well i mean i think this year we have a couple of new additions we have some

[01:28:06] obviously that we're gonna have regular tour but we always try and to expand a little bit and maybe change you know in the end there is a lot of organizers that want to run something in any we don't get

[01:28:18] to the point that we run it so i would say for getting a tour together like we have at the moment with 10 12 events i'm probably negotiating 2230 organizers to sign this amount of events so

[01:28:33] there is a decent amount of organizers i'm talking to that never end up in doing an event so because they cannot raise the budget you know they're saying i want to do something but i need to then

[01:28:44] you know how much do i need and then they go find sponsors they don't have enough money or they don't receive permits to do it in the place they want to do it because that's also a point you know it's not easy

[01:28:57] and to do it anywhere now this is in some countries it's very regulated when you want to do what are sport events and where you can do it in terms of safety or to close to a hover or

[01:29:09] it's maybe you know you have places where falling might be forbidden for certain months of the year or at all and we've been doing not for the for the foil tour but we've been doing for example

[01:29:24] an event last year for the kaytour in Saudi Arabia and it's awesome to win but Saudi is basically that the red sea coast is a military zone there's not allowed to go on the water so we had

[01:29:39] to wait a year to get permits to be allowed to put athletes of the water actually at that coastline and nobody was able to go there before and train you could only be there for the seven days of

[01:29:52] the event i was only time it will ever allow to go in the water officially so that depends on the country you know it's not it's not it's not that easy to say well i do a world cup and it's going to run but

[01:30:06] i think also a lot of people think it's way harder than it is because that's my impression when i talk to organizers that maybe haven't done an event before and you talk to a higher you have

[01:30:18] a school or a hotel or business or whatever at that place think about it do you want to promote do you want to promote that place for weak falling through a world cup event and then

[01:30:29] when they start to think about it the realized actually it's not that hard to do it there's a few spots that i'm thinking that like just on the west coast of Canada and the US

[01:30:39] it would be pretty awesome Canada it would be great yeah we've been talking actually to an organizing Toronto but we haven't got there yet to get it going we've been that's all about two years ago

[01:30:54] um it was a city of Toronto oh really okay because there is cherry beach there's a like on Lake Huntington they're all the right on Lake but there are some different spots along

[01:31:06] there that would be something but tipped me as sometimes we get good wind in the fall starting September till like November December but then she gets chilly yeah i have to say that

[01:31:18] we often get asked why you guys don't do an event in the US or in Maui or Canada and we've been working pretty hard actually to get something going then i think we're gonna go there soon

[01:31:30] talking to a couple of people but it seems like compared to Europe the US let's say event market works very differently you know it's not like in the US it seems to be very hard to raise

[01:31:45] public sponsorship for these kind of events so you need to to finance an event mainly through private sponsors and the i have the feeling that in the US especially I don't know Canada but I guess it's

[01:32:04] similar that these kinds of sports don't have the same professional image than other sports so people would more see there's a recreational recreational activity but not really a professional sport and it's not like Europe over here it's definitely not like we got small communities and

[01:32:24] it's our lives like it's it's all we breathe and dream and wanted to but it there are very hidden small like even from Ottawa is small town right grew up there's probably like three or 400 people

[01:32:36] in the town that's well it's a city it's pretty big like to million with all the surrounding areas but like there's only there aren't that many so it's never it wouldn't be recognized definitely but

[01:32:48] it would be cool though to see it but Europe is a lot more has a lot bigger for all that yeah in Europe I mean it went pretty fast also most of of the countries have now win-foiling

[01:33:01] covered under their sailing federations and there are countries like France that's all the forefront of that they now really have a proper win-foil national team that's supported by the national sailing Federation so they have their own coaches they have budget for the team to travel to events

[01:33:19] the coaches travel to the events as well support the team you know they are representing France and they get support and it's turning this way more and more countries are playing the future

[01:33:37] but yeah I mean France has always been very enthusiastic about what supports and there's so many people do it and so much cold plan and I've been especially about foiling I think a lot of our events

[01:33:48] have probably 30% French participants because they are all really good and there's so many so stoked to you as a lot of stoked there yeah they just love these kind of sports it's a bit of means surfing too I'm surfing surfing, cycling, sailing, the love these things and

[01:34:10] if you have an event you have a lot of people watching too so yeah Europe I think there is a little bit of a hat you know and then also did that as I said a lot of the the

[01:34:22] organizers or countries they see bringing a world cup event as a really effective tool of promoting a tourism destination showing that this is one of the best spots in the world with

[01:34:36] the best guys in the world gonna come so they are spending money on that and and that's also big difference to other markets although I have to say South America to South America Brazil

[01:34:51] is the strong market on what supports and we have many many Europeans that go to Brazil for practicing wind kind wind what a windfall is growing there fast too in 2020 when I told

[01:35:05] you we had the first event that was basically a handful of Brazilian people that I saw doing that in Brazil the year after 21 it wasn't really explored and last year I saw really already

[01:35:19] a lot of tourists going to Brazil for windfall I mean it's amazing place it's been every day you do thousands of long courses long as you want yeah that's more high to yeah yeah you know it's

[01:35:32] a good vibe everybody loves Brazil you love to go there oh yeah yeah do you think windfall is gonna get as big as something that's one's quite industry question we asked a

[01:35:43] couple of their brands and they're like if you can if you can jump that chasm or even wind surfing right because wind surfing got so huge that everybody had one. Sopping pretty much everybody has

[01:35:53] one. Citing didn't quite but still but we're curious about winging if I was going to jump that that thing or not. Well I don't think I mean I hope so but I think to get to to the point

[01:36:09] where something is it's gonna be hard just because you need way more equipment you I mean something you don't need anything on the board you could go on the river you take your path and

[01:36:21] on the lake on the river with wind with outwind you do whatever you want. What's like a bicycle I'm lost yeah exactly so on windfalling we still look at wind and deep enough water

[01:36:35] and then obviously it's not something that you jump on and do right away like on the sub so I think it will be hard to match that but I think that windfalling can now with the wind

[01:36:50] water sports talking wind surfing citing. I mean wind surfing at the point where it was really popular had the advantage that there was not a lot of alternatives so if you wanted to ride a board on the water

[01:37:01] and not surf or wakeboard behind the boat you would win surf I was nothing else really on the plate now it's way different I mean wind surfing kind surfing windfalling S.P. falling down

[01:37:14] anywhere that a lot of stuff to do on the water so that's why already I think there's not that much potential to get that many people but I still think that by the growth I see now I think between

[01:37:27] those windwater sports I think it can get the biggest one yeah between wind surfing and wind I think so too even my brother who's a die hard citer and he wouldn't dare touch we just

[01:37:41] talked about it the other day and he was like alright I might consider trying at the summer I didn't think that day would come. I see that I see that a lot to hear you know like those guys

[01:37:53] who like real hop or wind or kind surfing there would touch anything else at least we can and I could until the day they try and they try to yeah and they figure out how much fun it is and then they understand that's over yeah

[01:38:12] I just mean the same between wind surfing and kite surfing remember the 2000s you know those guys there were a lot of hardcore wind surfing like how why I would never touch a kite or

[01:38:21] wind surf but in the end they ended up doing it oh yeah they do secretly quitely nobody sees and yeah they don't talk about it but yeah what I want to explain people the windfall world tour

[01:38:37] is our idea behind it was really not to only surf being the formula one of the sports and being only accessible to this the planicle of athletes then when I go there our mission is

[01:38:54] really and that's why we have this qualifying events and use events we want to grow the sport and we want to be everybody who want to be part of it can be part of it and we're also working

[01:39:05] on some concepts for the future for our material events that we want to you know step up that are really closer than also for the industry very interesting because I think that's

[01:39:15] that's a really important part of the sport and I think I'm smiling every time I see you know in the end what I love about these sports is you know you can come as a new as a new

[01:39:30] fresh person getting to an event for the first time you shouldn't be scared to just show up if you were able to come you know chat to the pro or to the team or we are all one community and

[01:39:42] it doesn't matter what level of writing you have I think which also shared the same stock and it's just great to have the right people involved that have this passion to drive

[01:39:52] that sport and that's why it's growing so fast as it does and yeah and that's what I recognize a lot of people involved in winning funding and doesn't matter if they run podcasts like you

[01:40:03] or have a magazine or run a brand or organize events or it's just you know for me as I said I did what was sports for so many years at Winzer for 25 years and when I started

[01:40:18] the winch when I was kind of served for 20 years probably and then I started winning for the and it was like I felt like a small kid again that was so am getting on the way

[01:40:28] I'm getting on the water again and you know and I was really starting it only because I thought I got on that I got on that I got on that do it when there is light wind and I want to win

[01:40:38] serve and the reality is now 90% of the days I'm on the water I win for it and I still win serving kite when the conditions are right for it and it's pumping waves but I really like

[01:40:52] most of the days I'm getting on the fork and it was really for me yeah as I said I felt like a small kid again and I can see the same in your eyes and in a lot of other people

[01:41:03] and people are falling around the world it's exactly the same situation and I'm super happy about that oh yeah I think that's what's gonna draw more and more people in especially post pandemic

[01:41:18] like people need to incorporate fun and this can be something that could bring a lot of joy and a lot of fun to your life you can put it in the back of your SUV it's not something that you

[01:41:29] need 17 roof racks and four trailers is just like you can have a board and stuff and like you and your whole family get going so that's what I think I see the excitement of connecting

[01:41:41] people who are working in all these different places and if you have a little bit of water you can get out there and have some fun exactly and and I had so often the questions from

[01:41:52] people that wins it or kites you say how now but if I start winning for like a buy another thing you know I spend money again on equipment and do I need to do this by talking guys you know

[01:42:04] you buy a wing you're gonna love it going wing for them your wife might maybe not be for them but she's still gonna stand on the SUV take a wing and cruise around in your kids

[01:42:14] and take the wing and jump off a heel and heel and try to jump with it or put it on the skateboard and ride on the parking lot and you know it's it's such a versatile tool and the wing is

[01:42:28] not even talking about before the forest complex no question but it's not that complex like people think but the wing it's the most easy to handle with sport tool you can imagine as

[01:42:38] two handles or something it's more obviously you take it both your hands hold it into the wind they just pulls you yeah there's a there's a big movement here even in Ottawa some

[01:42:50] buddies because the wind and water sometimes it just doesn't line but it lines over land so they're going into different parking lots grab and skateboard it's long boards and they have like

[01:43:00] a half an hour session on land and that didn't exist before so they're super stoked to be able to do that and then they go home and they do whatever else but there's that aspect of things as

[01:43:11] well landboarding and the wing is something that was not surprising and it's super fun this is something with a lot of people I think forget and it was for example when you started the global

[01:43:20] wingsport association on purpose we didn't want to name it the foreling association because we didn't want to leave out the other aspect so you can do the wing being on the skateboard being on

[01:43:31] the snowboard okay we haven't done any events in that because we don't have the time but I wouldn't say no that maybe the future we would also organize a wing state at one point at the right place you

[01:43:45] know why not that can be cool or or as I said a lot of people just bought wings and they stand on the sqp and cruise around because they want a pedal without a foil so it's it's not only the foil

[01:44:01] that is working with the wing you know you can you can make it work with a lot of things and when I see well I wish I would have had a wing when I was 12 or 15 years old

[01:44:12] no I wouldn't have had so much bullshit of that thing jumping off roofs I see that I mean I saw you yesterday at the guy jumping off the roof from a house into his pool on the way to store his fire yeah whoa

[01:44:31] yeah oh man I don't know if you're going to go doing that I don't get me wrong and I'm not that no you should try this at home but uh you know just end this and the whole

[01:44:43] opportunities and we've been yeah I think it's such a handwing it it's it's a versatile thing that you could use for so many activities and oh yeah have you had the chance to ride some of the new

[01:44:59] hard handle wings oh yeah of course I think it's been yeah yeah I've been riding hot handles for the last two years already oh beautiful yeah yeah no now I'm the first time I tried it I was like

[01:45:13] what this is a game changer it is what you need you know that no no I've been I've been riding only hot handles actually since yeah they're amazing since they came out so I think

[01:45:25] well the first one was to do it on unit obviously I think was on the on the hard handles but pretty quick a lot of other brands jumped in and I think now most of most of the brands come out with

[01:45:38] it and oh it is I mean and no a lot of people like the boom with the come from wind surfing and I think it have a lot of advantages riding a boom especially if you're learning because you

[01:45:51] can ride a blind one hand at grab wherever you want but it's a little heavier and for some people they might maybe not know where they need to grab so handles it's pretty easy way of going

[01:46:05] definitely and the weight is is light yeah no I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm happy with the weights going now I think what we you know as I said I see always prototypes around

[01:46:17] the emirishes trying grandstrain prototypes also on events and I think it will go more and more the direction of really also building wings that have more ability in airtime like to work more

[01:46:34] like a wind glide let's say very being really effective in terms of how long they can lift you follow and they can lift you but we still that's was one of the you know we have this GLA

[01:46:49] the way global wing sports association which is not the world tour that's the association of industry brands maybe that's important explain so all the big brands and now everyone two months we have a new brand coming in actually and being a member of the association they came together

[01:47:04] to structure the sport and also to discuss about safety standards like it is also on kind surfing so what do the wings need to have windows do they not have windows what are safe

[01:47:18] delicious need to do and and a lot of product details let's say and yeah it's been I think agree from everybody at the moment that all the wings that right now the market for example need to be inflatable because this should still be a floating device for emergency

[01:47:42] but I know there are and back in the 90s the wings we had at that time that I talked about in the beginning of our chat they were not inflatable so they were a stiff construction with

[01:47:55] carbon boom small as but they couldn't flow actually could float for short time but they were a completely stiff construction and I know a couple of brands are experimenting with that already combined with inflatable because gives more agility to the wing but it's yeah

[01:48:18] maybe still a secret actually like a little terredacto maybe we have to cut that out because maybe they don't want me to tell it I could definitely see like for me I just see it in my head

[01:48:32] like I see a little terredacto wing kind of thing with that backbone and can't be hangin off that and I could see that being amazing for racing or for different things as well yeah I could

[01:48:43] see that coming I bet you they've already all played with it I'm assuming they all have no I'm sure they happen as I said these exist nothing new and exist the 20 years ago 25 years

[01:48:53] ago already but yeah as I said for the moment power rules for example for competitions the wings that have to be used need to be inflatable construction they cannot be completely hard construction okay fair enough and now they're playing with bladders obviously most of brands now

[01:49:09] have like dual bladder construction so if one happens to blow then it's not as a big deal because you got two valves going that's been a change that we've seen that's pretty cool also even

[01:49:22] with the KT wings that I ride like you can swap from hard handle to semi rigid handle to whatever which is kind of cool as well because if you're just wanting to go for a cruise or if you want

[01:49:32] like you don't necessarily need the hard handles all the time or somebody brand new because I give lessons out on the island and I find that even a soft handle is not a terrible thing for

[01:49:43] learning on it's just a little bit more gentle on hands and wrists and forearms and if you fall that kind of thing so I'm not opposed but then as soon as you get out like I rode on the St. Lawrence

[01:49:54] the other day it was like 25 and decent little swell and it had three meter wing and it was just oh it was under with hard handles so I can see all those different various applications

[01:50:06] coming up coming together yeah I think in the end I'd be by the sports tour you everybody has a bit different preferences and different conditions where he's riding and it's not I think one product that's going to be perfect for everything so there will be the need for

[01:50:23] different different parts I mean I know a lot of the brands now are adding having more than one lean model in the range in the beginning was just one this is going to evolve and I think the

[01:50:37] same for the boards at the moment most brands have only one board line but I think also this is going to change that you can have something more for waves and something more for maybe

[01:50:47] freestyle and ways you want something thinner that's more direct on your follow on the on freestyle you want something with a lot of volume and very short to have easy for rotations and then

[01:50:59] you want something for a more easy take off but I think this will all come in the future and what I really like actually is that now there's still a lot of room for a smaller custom brands

[01:51:13] that get their market share especially in the board side I see so many people who write custom boards and I think that's awesome because it really gives a bit of a part of the business to

[01:51:27] the local shape it's not that yeah that's true actually that can yeah I can make something out of it you know and I think the boards get more and more important in the beginning I think everybody thought

[01:51:41] you can write whatever you want on the foil on top of it because it doesn't touch just the water but in the end you realize that some boards take off more using another ones

[01:51:51] oh yeah yep but yeah I think that's that's great I mean we have right now as I said we have a lot of statistics from the industry and I think we are around 100 brands at the moment

[01:52:04] the dollar in the market 100 brands are not all of them producing everything but 100 brands that either do foil or boards or wings or of it so counting all the small ones too and that's a lot

[01:52:20] okay three four years into the sport yeah so the GW is an industry association and brands can join it you know be part of it when the brand wants to join they can apply

[01:52:36] to be a member then all the existing members have to prove it together if they want to have this new member in but it can also be it can also be members join there are not a brand

[01:52:48] producing equipment now it could be an organizer it could be another association we in the future also want to offer memberships in a different way obviously to and consumers so making like you know GW a club kind of for anybody who wants to be in it

[01:53:13] having certain we're working on a new program in that direction that's not implemented yet but yeah just to to organize the community you've been better and bring everybody as I said it's not our approach is really not to try to kick out everybody else it's the same we're

[01:53:31] the only ones we can do start now we want to actually include everybody you you know once once to aim at the same goals and we we we we were close we've all the national federations

[01:53:45] because every in every country it's organized a bit different as I told you most of the countries run wing falling under their sailing federation but in some countries it's a completely independent federation or even another federation may be the surfing federation

[01:54:05] that covers wing falling and not the sailing so this is not always the same thing but there's a lot to do in that direction and I you know I think as I explained before

[01:54:20] I think that the some countries like France are very well organized in that way already and there's a lot of other countries following in the same way also we want to kind of censor standards on schooling so right now there is you know when we're falling solid everybody

[01:54:42] in thought once the school over the schooling and there was no there was no workbooks of how needs to be taught wing falling and some I think have a lot of experience of very good schools

[01:54:56] but there's also especially beginning there were schools that may be not that experience with teachings we want to make sure that the rights safety standards are in place when you

[01:55:06] learn it and to write gear for example we are giving kind of a lot of licenses but let's say approvals from our side or recommendations to schools that want to be GW approved we have them on

[01:55:22] the association website you can look for schools around the world and we are checking on these schools for example have this efficient experience and sufficient equipment to actually give proper lessons okay yeah that that's something interesting but this is actually because I

[01:55:37] I started teaching three or two years ago and I had to make up my own curriculum so I broke it down scientifically so like for me it was easier for me to describe how to fly a wing

[01:55:50] as it would be like vertical axis horizontal axis horizontal axis makes it fly and then you can add your power at wherever but like I had to break it all down and kind of it helped me learn more

[01:56:00] but then you go to a different school they kind of for us they were just okay just go ahead make your curriculum and then just do whatever you think is best and then so for that aspect we

[01:56:12] broke it down that way and then for foiling as well same thing right like I was like okay so you're beginning to foil a lot of the times I start you sitting kneeling and then if you can graduate from

[01:56:22] that with a big board a big foil going super slow just towing I'll think about standing and then we there's so many different steps and we were talking to school about this hey we should put

[01:56:31] something together but everybody's probably saying the same thing but like yeah be cool because if you can bring in people if there's a reason why I would join the GW away and give whatever money

[01:56:43] to that and then if there's something that we could have for the umbrella for the schools I think it would give that uniform like I K-O right it would give that uniformy because right now

[01:56:55] it's given that the rapid acceleration of where this thing will go I think it's only inevitable until there has to be some sort of insurance based there's insurance through the IKO through

[01:57:05] school and because right now I think they're funding it through there but it would be cool to see that as well for wing because although something will blow up and you'll give recommendations and

[01:57:14] then like I think there's gonna have to be something that's coming. Now the needs to be in a way I think depends on the country obviously there are let's say Europe it's a bit more regulated

[01:57:28] and I think you cannot do any water sports schools without having insurance but of course there can't come through in Asia or Africa or even where I've owned through. I know what

[01:57:39] he controls the atmosphere and what that by having happens so and this is not good I mean this is I think for for for the for the end consumer what's take to listen that's kind of a

[01:57:50] risk of thinking they might go to I don't know I don't know where let's say Santy Bar anywhere in the world where they're gonna get some lesson and whatever happens you know it's a

[01:58:02] school would teach out of a van or well it doesn't matter they can teach out of it but at least have proper equipment and having insurance if things happen and you need to have that in place

[01:58:13] so we've been asking all the schools who wanted to be part of that list that we have on the GWA on not on the world to website there's the association website and also the world to website

[01:58:24] so there's this global wingsport association that we've been asking them obviously we can't control it because we cannot fly to every school and check if it's true but we've been asking and you know what equipment they use how many equipment how they teach one-on-one or

[01:58:44] what amount of groups people you get an idea but that's uh you know that's a separate project inside the world to a completely different nice well man thanks for thanks for the chat this has been pretty awesome

[01:59:07] not very many times you can just sit there and chat about wings and surfing foils and everything else if there's anybody looking to reach out to you wants to connect what's the easiest way for them to do that

[01:59:20] just send me an email yeah um said I'm my email is Tom at global wingsport association dot org maybe we can link that also with the podcast if there's any info regarding the world to

[01:59:33] I'm happy to answer that also our work in the yard one of my team so we have also the official address which is the info at global wingsport.org wingsport association dot org

[01:59:46] I'm not the only one working at the tour so we have a bunch of people and I sometimes have a lot on my on my plate so that might be some other people answering things but

[02:00:02] yeah we're here to help and I always try to we have obviously a lot of new young people that when they come into the half-questions and we were trying to to serve them as good as we can I'm really happy with that

[02:00:19] yeah no I love the direction it's going however everybody is working in that community aspect and it's just the stoked to come back and the water is just growing so

[02:00:30] yeah hey thanks a lot for joining us I'd love to have you back on because I'm curious to see where all these new disciplines and how how the tour is going to evolve so we'll definitely have to

[02:00:39] back on for another chat and hopefully Tom will be on so it'll be Tom Tom and Luke next time maybe we'll be finished to see if the end of this season we can have another one and recap a little bit

[02:00:51] see what's on for 2020 short yeah that would be absolutely amazing okay man I hope you enjoy Mauritius it's on my list I saw it and there's a couple riders from from motion rodeo because I spent my summers on Vancouver Island with family and they had a couple

[02:01:07] trips at to Mauritius it looks it looks unreal so yeah definitely Tom Mauritius yeah a multiple time yeah we're getting more and more other wing you know we can see here as well

[02:01:21] it's a well if you want to ride waves probably one of the best plays in the world I think and if you if you keep for that anytime you let me know okay yeah sounds good and you

[02:01:35] you have equipment for rent so if there's people looking to travel Mauritius we have they could contact you as well exactly we have winged for equipment for rent here as well so after a lot of

[02:01:45] people that commented I want to bring their own stuff we got the engine sort them with anything from beginner to wave gear big boards to the smallest ones so same for folks so okay can conduct me as

[02:01:59] well but that's probably on a different address because there's something that we should tour but but we yeah I can know I leave that as well maybe somewhere and yeah it's a lion Mauritius is our company here so if they are keen to rent or get lessons on

[02:02:19] winged for winged them yeah we can we can talk about thanks for joining Tom and I in this episode we hope you enjoyed it and we'll see you next time