Episode # 26 - Ben Jamieson & Dominic Hoskyns

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing-foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. How's the flight back home from EWSI? It was pretty hard to move through separately.

[00:00:20] I actually, I've been out there for a while when I cross to Orlando and had a couple of days, which felt like just driving all around Florida. Catching up with a few guys over there, so I had two days in Florida after 8 o'clock,

[00:00:34] and then I flew, had to go to Orlando back to LA, back to Auckland in New Zealand, back to Sydney, Mr Connecting Flight Sydney, and then that way. So my journey home was long, I think the others were pretty good. It was pretty simple.

[00:00:47] Yeah, I was so exhausted enough and I'll show you that some, yes, normally I can't sleep on flight to talk, but as I like it, baby and slept throughout the whole pre-match to hold a big flight. Yeah, got back, it wasn't as fast as I thought.

[00:01:04] Hey, that's not bad. How did EWSI end up for you guys? It was wild. It was a pretty crazy experience. First sort of international trip of that kind. First time in the US for me, of any decent time as well.

[00:01:18] So just the culture shock, the amount of gear that it meant in that people or foiling was just mind-blowing compared to what we used to. So I think once we got over that sort of initial, yeah, I guess, culture shock.

[00:01:34] The actual band and so many people, I think what surprises us is how many people are in New York for a drive or how far the brand has gotten without us being over there, was very surprising, that's for sure.

[00:01:49] So to have time, so many people at the work we've already and we know of and that contacted us or we've worked with them as a dealer or a shop or a brand or whatever. To actually meet those people with face to face is really, really good.

[00:02:04] Yeah, that would be pretty funny. We never once I kept saying it to all sorts of people, we never had to explain what world-drive was or what we do, who we are.

[00:02:16] If you hang out there for four days, I've seen that stuff, my buddy's got one, or I've got one, or yeah, the friend that the street sells them, or whatever it was, it was mine, why?

[00:02:25] I mean, from the other side of the work, this is your thing with the business. That would be nice, right? The most people that either tourists just wander around church or all on the water. So when we went for a session at the Hattree or wherever,

[00:02:39] just around them people coming off the water or going on to the water. Hey, you guys have been full drive, hey, Dan, but it's just taking back how many people just wanted to come and say hi and express their gratitude for the product itself

[00:02:55] and how much has helped them. Yeah, this is really cool. That is cool. At least that there was a really successful trip. Then that's positive. I think every night we're stuck in the booth until well after the closed of the show

[00:03:12] and there's a photo getting around to the one of our guys to it. It was 6.30 on the Friday night, so the show technically closed at the 5pm. There was an hour and a half of the show, all the main booths across the front row,

[00:03:27] packed and gone and all the trucks gone and everything. Everyone in the world, every hundred year. Only ten that was remaining out of the nose was the reception, the registration and everything.

[00:03:38] Everybody else had to be on before we even managed to get rid of the last sort of person. We had like 10 or 15 people in the booth still asking us questions and some of our deals still there,

[00:03:49] like talking to us and like I'm still doing interviews with like a living aid from co-border. It was just, yeah, we were breaking through the same story. That's not just three days, you're pretty done with talking and all that stuff.

[00:04:04] I feel like if we were that far away, we still would have been talking to the people. That's awesome though. So that means your story is getting out, your brand's getting out. People are loving your product. Hey, what the, you cannot say much more than that.

[00:04:17] Exactly. There's awesome problems to have, I guess. Again, I think just many people face to face so important, especially like this kind of thing. It's all about fun. It's all like getting out of the water, having a good time with your buddies.

[00:04:30] And I think we try to keep our brains that way too. Between Paul and myself is started before we drive like we just want to go out on the water right. We don't get to do it as much as we'd like to anymore.

[00:04:45] But that's what it's all about. And you know, we're just trying to share what we do well and just share that with more people.

[00:04:52] That's really the chances of why we do this. And I think that's the reason why a lot of people in the world's world's game do it is because they love it and say passion.

[00:05:01] And they just want to share it so that that face to face time with people and being able to go out on the water, people, please awesome. So it's a cool. Oh yeah, no, that's a good, that's a good entry into it.

[00:05:14] Definitely because you entered into it for the right reasons. And I think with that, you can get some exponential growth and everybody's looking to try to find ways to go lighter, lighter, lighter wind. And this is an option.

[00:05:27] Yeah, sure. I mean a little bit of background, I guess Paul and I both much more versed in the surf side of things like that's that's particularly Paul. He serves since he's a kid absolutely loves it.

[00:05:41] It's going to blow in our shoulder, kind of, how do I learn anymore? And then when Foiling came around, I was all that. He's got electric surfboards for like 50 years. But then it felt like a real surfboard.

[00:05:52] Where he's when Foiling came about, you could build an electric foil. And back then, what he first initially built in really feel like a surfboard like he wanted.

[00:06:02] So then if it came smaller and smaller, then here we are, we've got four other than in the surf, it's perfect.

[00:06:06] Electric mountain bike of surfing, it helps you get to the top where helps you get back out to the waves, get on the way and then we go.

[00:06:14] The wings side, initially, we're like, no one's going to use them for winging. Like, what would you bother? You've got a big parachute and capturing boys free energy, free energy.

[00:06:25] And you're harnessing that. Why would you ever want to motor? But it's been very surprising to many people who are using four drives. You know, four winging, which I think Dom really was one of the first pioneers of that too.

[00:06:37] I was driven to an assistant because where I was living in a man, like 80% of the time it's super like wins. I mean, we always get that sort of six to 10 or eight to 12 knots.

[00:06:49] When I first started, when my first ever Foiling year was with the old 10025 Leeds in Nash Hopper Board, it go for a Malico set up. And a four meter Nash wing wing, which just it was impossible. I just could not get up on the foil.

[00:07:06] Then when the first seven meter came out and I bought one of those, then with a lot of effort, I could get up on the foil.

[00:07:14] But there was still a lot of enlightenment days that there was just no hype, like pumping the wing right at sweet man until my alone's addressing and just just felt like there was always on the edge.

[00:07:26] And I knew that if I could get up, I could cruise around, like it practice my drives, my tax do this, that the other. And so yeah, when four drive came along, wow, it's just a complete going change it.

[00:07:39] And I had, well that's almost 110 meter board and the box at the back. My first ever video, that's sent to these guys. I had on my, yeah, as a seven meter deosome slick.

[00:07:51] And I was holding a GoPro stick at the time and I just said, right guys, I'm going to try pumping without foil drive to see if I can get up on four and up pump.

[00:08:00] It was one of those sessions where I was about to run out of energy and I just managed to get up on four and I was pancing and it was going, well I did it but that was exhausting.

[00:08:09] I came down on the water and I said, right, now I'm going to do it with foil drive. And it was obviously, I pulled the trigger. I put foil in those are, I've literally such a last result.

[00:08:22] You could tell the actual real thing you would surprise, but I'm going to do it already. I had to literally, the wing was just there for about, I didn't even do one pump.

[00:08:33] But that was with the motor up high. So once you're used to the motor to get on foil, the motor turns off, the motor comes out of the water.

[00:08:39] You've got a very small amount of the small package that's being added to your system, but you're still actually genuinely win-foiling, honestly in the wind. I'm only using the motor for that very short. I came back in with 83% of the battery remaining. That was a big battery.

[00:08:57] So the next time I took out a small battery, I think I still had over 50% of the battery. It's about 46% left off through a three hour session. Yeah, pretty good. So I guess what is foil, Giraffe? Yeah, we should back up the truck.

[00:09:14] So it's a very small lightweight electric motor system that you can add to almost any foil on the market. I think our current compatibility list which has grown since we saw you last week is after about 93 different marks somewhere. Awesome, fellas. Awesome.

[00:09:33] It's a retro figure. You've already got a bunch of gear. You might be a winner in the lightweight environment like Don was and you just need that little bit of help.

[00:09:43] Just to get a foil exactly what Don said, it's exactly what the foil drive is there for it's we wanted to. This means the funny same is going around in the last few weeks as well. We enjoy using our foil drive the most when we're not using it.

[00:09:58] And that is such a weird way of saying something. As if when I'm not using the foil drive, that's when I love it most because that means you're doing real foiling. So foiling, you're downwinding, you're pump foiling off a lake.

[00:10:17] Any of those sort of things, that's what the boss guys can go and get into is that sensation feeling of true drag-free, very low-drag foiling. The foil drive is there to get you to that point and then we wanted to go away as much as possible.

[00:10:34] Once you're on foil, it all means becomes irrelevant because you barely notice it.

[00:10:39] It literally is a tool to get you up on foil and once you're on foil, even though I was blowing away by how little impact it has to your sort of foiling performance, whether it's win-foiling, prune foiling. That would have pumping, I even do that with foil drive.

[00:10:55] If I'm jumping off my ladder or a dock and I have to paddle back to the start point with foil drive, there is no start point.

[00:11:04] Wherever you fall in, you can take off from it and then you just build up a bit of speed, oil up on the foil and you're pumping again.

[00:11:12] You can chase weight, you can ride weight so much further because there's no danger of if you do fall, can you paddle back, how long is it going to take? So yes, just open up so many avenues that really has.

[00:11:28] So how did the whole, I guess you mentioned that you got into it from passion but how did the whole design, how did that concept originally come from? I can't really come from.

[00:11:40] This is definitely his third deep, but I just want to say at this point it still blows my mind that this invention is with us in existence because.

[00:11:49] Of course mountain bike accidents and because Paul and him have got this crazy relationship where they just they're used to building drones and real high tech sort of electronic stuff and it wasn't for their friendship and business relationship.

[00:12:03] And this with this crazy idea would never come to fruition and it's going to be a pretty crazy backstory that I'm sure you don't have two hours to sit here and that. We got time, we got time, I'd love to hear it to be honest.

[00:12:19] There's a full point of how to do it a little while ago like over in the out-each of channels as well. We went through it literally is two hours of basically just the backstory but the compress version that my take 30 bar minutes is. You got done.

[00:12:34] So, finally, in up-worth Paul and I grew up mountain biking Paul is a grew up surfing and as I said before he had a really bad mountain bike accident and he also you know just overworked his shoulders surfing as well as that mountain bike accident really cut the final mountain coffin so.

[00:12:54] When he was out surfing he always got tired of the tea quite quickly, missed a lot of waves just always wanted that little bit of an extra boost to get onto a way and being that surf background.

[00:13:08] My side of it kind of comes in with that mountain biking and then you know again it's the same fun again we we always talk about the four drivers like a retrofit electric mountain bike you have a parking of garage.

[00:13:20] You're not as fit as you used to be you may get six laps up in the other mountain bike park when you can do two before you're not there you put on a small little wet motor and now you can do six with the waves that are a lot better than you sort of.

[00:13:33] E-bike for foiling basically yes. The expansion of that analogy is then we're not an e-foil we don't want to be an e-foil where you burn around a flat water for half an hour an hour and go to school places and let us up.

[00:13:50] In the mountain bike and if you're not as good as your buddies anymore when you want to do six laps up in around the mountain bike park where you can only do two.

[00:13:59] You don't go on bike if you have a petal power dirt bike to go and ride the mountain bike mates.

[00:14:05] If you've got mates that ride dirt bikes as well they're awesome fun toy much the same as the e-foil isn't awesome fun toy or the use case of e-foil.

[00:14:13] So it's like what I've been around for now I go exploring the river all I can suffer because of the lake or whatever you can do a little bit of surfing with them but they begin to poke and heavy. That's the main reason I guess why forward drivers.

[00:14:30] The forward dog exists is poor wanted help to get into a surf because of an injury anyone to get more waves in his he's also got two kids in a business and power of a lot.

[00:14:41] Once it kept more time doing the fun bit which is actually surfing and not swearing his board and slapping or what he's going on with that close I was that clunkers.

[00:14:52] I come into this picture I guess like don't sort of alluded to so poor and I would like the very early days of commercial drone operations with inspection drones and mapping surveying all that kind of stuff.

[00:15:07] I actually know Paul from my girlfriend Sydney for a live in LA I know Paul from what Leron Lents sort of remote control.

[00:15:15] Yeah, featuring airplanes helicopters, RC jets, RC cars boats, you name it with us we had no kids sitting in the shed to carry out anything like stuff. You should see a shed. That's how I knew Paul said RC planes of stuff and then I'm very outdoorsy.

[00:15:39] I'm really going to straight it surface basically whether you're intercepting or not it's hard about a lot of our culture I guess especially if you're in that after seeing so.

[00:15:49] I started working for Paul in that drone business he was playing like so Paul's that's pretty cool game those go electric or falling started coming around let's build so much force that was pretty cool.

[00:16:01] Again RC plane and a foil the kind of the same thing that just runs in the air one is in the water when you stand on it.

[00:16:09] So it's a pretty cool amount of information on all these different passions and interests and skill sets between Paul and I that have all kind of boil down put it all in the point you kind of end up with four go.

[00:16:21] As as as a brand that we can take to the world and fail for us as a services. But a business history there's the sports passion that outdoor passion the electronics passion from RC which rolling to drones which rolling to putting an insult or which is not fun.

[00:16:42] Ask about that yeah it's going to be so soon stuff exactly it's it's hectic but all of those passions and skill sets and things from I guess Paul and I are now our whole team people at gonswell and huge amounts of value to the.

[00:16:57] Brand it's that that's the super compress version and yes, well you know I could ran one about the history of all this stuff.

[00:17:08] All right just but the current day and future three tools well so thanks for sharing that the background story and it started very very humble both Paul myself.

[00:17:18] Public I was I was on a beat boiling saying and I think now we just about employee everyone who's been saying that is right.

[00:17:28] So it's not so insignificant it's about two and a half years old now so my that since you've actually started publicly selling these things and it's been up and it's been up and supporting it a lot.

[00:17:39] But again a lot of people say when did follow drugs when was it all I'm ended you have the idea and it's like well.

[00:17:44] It's not a pretty finger on it because I mean the concept of small lightweight for kind of started smaller motion for a photo started the first time we took an e-foil into the surf my this is. This is not it.

[00:17:58] I mean if you want to put a date on that it might be five years six years somehow again that's keep keep going back when was the electric thing in the surf well and that goes like brother that's 15 years like it's.

[00:18:11] It's been a natural progression of technology understanding capability variety for people that write place the right time and this is the melting pot of where we are and.

[00:18:22] I think good timing Paul and my yeah and between for myself we're always in the leading edge whatever we're doing we don't want to play with the stuff that's.

[00:18:30] Been around for a while and everyone was had to do it we're always especially call is he's the genius mind all this is the designer the creator. The Chad, Drossman the manufacturer we do everything in house. In terms of R&D development testing.

[00:18:53] Flying up thousands of dollars of electronics in the process again the white that we have something that is. Worth while on safe to put on the market that's it's all done in house and calls age and yes.

[00:19:07] It's funny you can you can have a conversation with him and then one of us will say we call if we could do this and you'll just go.

[00:19:16] You know this I think it's mind and become quite for a while and then he literally has figured out the solution to it within minutes it's quite crazy how it's mind can make jumps. I think one of the main strengths for drive is that it was conceived by.

[00:19:35] I think it was a real world you know people who were passionate about you know just trying to make the product that works and is useful. And that has translated into a form or is he made products so quality control is absolutely 100% there.

[00:19:54] The service because these are guys who. Guys and girls in the team who are very passionate about bringing the products and market that works because we're all aware of how frustrating it can be when you get a product. And I remember that it's low or specially high end.

[00:20:12] Tech products and it doesn't perform as as expected or as promised. But this really does and the reason why I couldn't vote with.

[00:20:22] For drivers because they put up amazing but the they are a genuine team and who care about the care about their customers and they genuinely want everybody to have the best possible experience in falling on the water. And it's just great to be part of that whole experience.

[00:20:41] Oh nice yeah that's the impression I got and when I met you you guys were you guys were chill friendly and then you're more than happy to spend a bit of time and just talk things through so that's important because not every brand is like that so it's pretty cool that you guys are and so what rend it or what version of foil drive are you on now like obviously it's probably changed quite a bit since the first inception of the idea.

[00:21:06] Yeah I mean it's again, how long is the piece of string. Yeah it's full of some of these parts are on rendition 15. Yeah. As a product line up like at the world on the website. I guess we started with the assist. Again I think so.

[00:21:27] These facts under what we're saying earlier too like we kind of just. We do and we say what it actually does is no like smoking mirrors and there's no marketing like of.

[00:21:39] Oh you know up to three hours run times. So yeah I mean I can go answer for three hours but that's not realistic like it's anyway. Anyway, we started with the assist. That's what it says on the 10th it assists helps you assist.

[00:21:57] We had that product for 12 months roughly on the market somewhere that and we started getting a lot of people a lot more people using it and using it for ways again we said that we never thought people would want to use it.

[00:22:11] We never thought people would want to use down and we didn't was like not a thing really back then there was certain I'd probably like doing it.

[00:22:21] We could put a kind of cross from the site 40 footers and unlimited and that's the race ocean racing top stuff that we're trying to do it on foils. It was not a mainstream achievable thing for most people.

[00:22:33] And again the assisted exactly what it said it did assisted you to get on foils which is the main purpose. We started getting more people especially heavy guys and girls that needed a bit more ground for the whole performance boiling.

[00:22:48] We started to really take up where smaller winds, smaller boards. I think for a drive we really don't end up a whole new realm of.

[00:22:59] But a new type of fleeing to where if you were self surfing and then this is your white water breaking here and there's a lump.

[00:23:07] You got all the surface competing for this. You've got the surface class in the middle and then you have the foils that can hang out inside.

[00:23:13] You still got to get on foils. Now with full drive, if there's white water, clean, lump, full drive is like how here and way back there. So we started getting a lot more people using it in its own way and its own niche.

[00:23:28] And then going, if I had a little bit more power then I can see further away from all those people.

[00:23:34] With the assist, it is still assisting me. I still need a wave. I'm a heavier guy. I want to write smaller wings and smaller boards that need more power to come and get up.

[00:23:43] So it used to be back here now, not in all this mess of people. I want to stay out there and I want to drop down board. I just can't do it like can you give me a little bit more power or can you give me?

[00:23:55] So that's where the evolution of the parts that I came in. There's about a hard way of changing the environment of cooling things, specs on cables and wires, battery voltages, all that sort of technical stuff that I'm allowed to keep a very similar form.

[00:24:13] So I'm going to do the exact same form factor, but have more power for more runtime. Better heat dissipation, better current delivery, and less like sag over the runtime as well. So that was on the evolution of the parts that came out.

[00:24:32] Yeah, it didn't go somewhere in that. Okay, and the other side of that was again, more people using it in different ways. We were saying, do not flat water flow and run around for driving my flat water in an equal fashion.

[00:24:45] With the assist that's not what it's designed for. It literally says assist in the name. Don't use the Vita for the only source of power. But of course people want to do that. Yeah, you know other heat clapping on the risk going, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:25:00] Or you accommodate a lot of people want and that's what people are really about is a quality of what people want. So again, that was when the cooling came in and it was like again, it's not an e-foil. This is not a big heavy motorbike.

[00:25:13] It's not a e-foil. But with the correct wind selection for a short period of time there's some limitations, but you can motor around a flat water which we call forward driving. Because again, it's not e-filing. It's coil driving. It's lightweight, small, nimble, short period.

[00:25:30] Cheats to help you practice turns to help you learn to foil easier. Everything. Get wind tips out of water, try different soils, whatever it may be. So that's the really long way of answering your question that effectively run version two.

[00:25:46] But it's okay. On a turn off evolution. It's a delicious thing. Things are rolling forward. It's very early guys, sure. Okay, so obviously this is test and salt water. So you've you've battled through that corrosion. You've how did that go about?

[00:26:03] Yeah, I mean, well, but well, full of drive was full of drive. I don't even want to think about the amount of dollars of stuff that we just have a big green pile of mess in the corner.

[00:26:19] Things have evolved a long way from that, which was a lot about. It does come back to we had very good electronics knowledge from our sea days and at that background of our hobby level of stuff, which then developed into proper, like freshly declassified military drone level.

[00:26:40] So that proper wood of wood flying around hutch in the end of drones, 250 thousand dollar drones all day every day before full drive came about and it does.

[00:26:51] So it's not just hobby level stuff that we kind of just mash in the box and make work. There is a very high level electronics and that industrial grade military grade type of electronics background and knowledge that's come from the drone experience we had to.

[00:27:10] Again, you mash all of that together and you end up with photograph. But in that drone work that we do as well, like drones are a really good tool for a lot of things but a lot of the times they were the wrong tool as well we did build and produce for our own use for job to research provided we did the work.

[00:27:28] We produce a heap of R of E's and all that kind of stuff too which is all in salt water, R of E being you know and I see both for one to the middle of it.

[00:27:38] We had cameras and lights and light our laser sands and you name it whatever was on there sometimes they were the better tool in the drone anyway so.

[00:27:48] There was already that again industrial waterproofing of electronics but really high and and a lot of the time working for I think yes companies and people like that can't get it wrong.

[00:28:00] It can't just go and just melt down. Oh sorry guys we've been back in a few weeks and we'll go another one like that's just not an option. So a lot of that background and history is translated to border I wear.

[00:28:15] Johnny gets his border I'm in the mail bolts to his downwind board and then starts paddling offshore. He's got a work. He's relying on that. He keeps us up at night a little bit sometimes that some people might rely on our gear too much still electronics.

[00:28:32] Again you're not going to go on a windying you're not going to go and take off 15 days offshore without a support vessel. We hope not at least stop you haven't let electronics problem you stop this still got to be common sense and personal responsibility.

[00:28:48] Every time you get in the water. It's really telling me. Yeah, always got sitting at the bottom of the foil. Yeah, whatever it's fine I'll charge my battery a little solid pin on the back and it'll be fine.

[00:29:03] It's pretty crazy talking to all guys that do the big downwind race in the edge of our stuff over in now.

[00:29:09] I recently ran the wing having the wing is part of that race. There's like two boats in a whole group of islands that can keep up with weans that were absolutely flying across the channel and it's like,

[00:29:24] How is this a support book when the wingers can go faster than the boats like it's a pretty crazy time in our sport that's pushing so far and then now.

[00:29:33] Yeah, some of these events having to rethink like we'd love to have you part of it because that's the cool new thing but she was how do we do this safely.

[00:29:41] Yeah, there's a lot of logistics and a lot of changes can we actually see one close to to Cameron and how it fits together and I'd love to see how the blades pop out and everything. Yeah definitely so. Okay. Simply.

[00:29:59] So we have effectively what we call the electronic slots. I fully waterproof enclosure that has all the electronics in one end and the battery goes in the other end. Battery is we have two options. One is the standard battery years. So we're going to be backwards in there.

[00:30:18] Oh, there we go. Yeah, that's perfect. That's going to take a little bit of back. But this is 1.6 kilos. I am Australian so I don't work in pounds. You guys have Google and you wake it up. Yeah, 1.10. It's pretty lightweight.

[00:30:35] Pretty small and obviously you can have multiple of these and just drop them in and out as you know if you want to have a long session and think about that.

[00:30:45] That is what we call standard battery. That's really good for the kind of that sort of flat word of four driving motor around. So we have a lot of flat water to learn and practice and you know, I'm chewing your skills and for surfing.

[00:31:00] For down on each still longer run time. And then we do have a small battery which is exactly one third. The capacity of this battery and we do have a joiner lead that you can join in together.

[00:31:14] The really cool thing about this is you can jump on plane and fly to Maui. I traveled to America with a couple of these and you can travel around with that.

[00:31:25] You can travel over a couple of these, put two of them together and make a medium battery if you like and you can get two batteries at the same time in your box.

[00:31:35] So when you get to Maui on your surf holiday, you can surf the two thirds of the time you cannot miss but you can actually travel with this. Okay.

[00:31:45] Nice. And then the other thing which I guess I also said earlier about winning is you don't need much run time.

[00:31:54] You just want to get out to the wind line and then get out on foil and then when you're on, you might come down once it's twice and get up very quickly and go around.

[00:32:03] But winning that battery which is half a kilo super luck is a little okay. I'm going to be a run time for winning if you use it intelligently. Again, the people just hold the throttle full throttle and just use it all up like sprinting down the street.

[00:32:20] You're not going to sprint for very long before you're out of half exactly the same with that. And that's keeps going really good.

[00:32:28] So it's like anything in falling good technique comes with skills. So you build up your experience and to begin with everybody will benefit from using the standard big battery.

[00:32:43] Because of the extra runtime, you realize you build up your skill and become so much more efficient and then that's when you can start going down to the small. And even that little weight saving, it's not huge but it's nice to be able to do so.

[00:32:59] So even this little battery here, I can do downwind runs on my prone board, which I never thought I'd be able to do right. So I've always wanted to do something that I've always wanted to do.

[00:33:17] And then the performance once I got used to the technique just blew me away so I'm now using prone boards for everything. I just and I've got to stage where I can now prone foil and sit down with actual drive but why would I?

[00:33:34] I'm always actually now always going to choose for drive to help me do it because I can do so much more for winning.

[00:33:42] Even on the sole battery, light wins we've covered yeah I can get up and forth and you know five to eight knots and with the modern super highest specs foils.

[00:33:53] You can still have a fun time and you know there was a day when the foils would be a bit boring just to get up in six late months.

[00:34:02] Now that the foils we've got actually have good performance in those light wins, but it doesn't end up because in high winds when I feel at recent were very recently. I used to have the whole art series of foils.

[00:34:17] I know it's the heart-pro series, but what point is that my go to for anything 14 knots in the boat I've used in the art eight nine nine.

[00:34:26] Although I could use the seven nine nine, I would really choose it because I know how hard I'd find it to get up on foil with the seven nine nine and if the wind drops just a little bit I cannot get up on foil.

[00:34:40] If you know if something happens on two sources I cannot get up and foil with the marginal conditions. So, if I'm even beginning to struggle to get up on foil, just a quick burst of power and that helps me.

[00:34:56] I'm always used it as an assist I'm pumping using the right technique but the little bit of extra thrust from from foil drive gets an up on foil and I can use that seven nine nine night without any risk of not getting able to be up on foil or.

[00:35:10] I can totally hammer my body zone over fifty nine and to be on the staff for a heart three hour session without foil drive.

[00:35:19] I feel those aches for the next few days, but I can use foil drive and have a long heart session and I can be fresh as a days you can expect. It's so close me out of these of a 50 like you know it looks for the problem.

[00:35:32] I don't know why I said it just probably in the two days straight like a jack rabbit and I should do it. What's your secret? Oh, is it a baby in Ash's milk? Is that one? Yes, yes. Yeah, I love it. We should finish answering the question now.

[00:35:54] Sure, I'd love to see the rest of it. Yeah, okay. This gets mounted on your board. We've got a very different ways of mounting out there. It's in like a piece of jewel lock. It's a 3M product.

[00:36:05] Think about like a very rigid, very strong velcro, which you like. It's a type of a loop type system that are hard plastic.

[00:36:14] It's awesome stuff if the sub board you're using has enough space in the deck. You can just stick it down with that and the suite otherwise we've got like mounting plates that you can use footstrapping circles to mount the plate to the board.

[00:36:26] You can use the jewel lock. The jewel lock is very important because if you don't want to just say you hard mounted this equipment which does have weight to it, to a board.

[00:36:38] A board is only a few layers of five glass of glass. You don't want to dilamate the board if this does get hit or a lengthy rope gets wrapped around it or in a crash it ball and I'm not sorry that.

[00:36:49] So you do want that pressure and you want that to be released and you want this to come hard. This definitely being some board shapers and some individual people that have built custom boards to sink the box down inside the board and like that stuff. That's great.

[00:37:06] Again, the concept of forwarder obviously retrofinite. Use whatever you've got. You've got a whole rack of boards just out of shot over here to the left.

[00:37:15] That is completely stock standard off the shelf factory boards. There's a couple of custom ones that we haven't had different shapes made different items.

[00:37:26] But they're all completely custom. Whatever board you've got in your shed will work. It's a little bit of ingenuity of how you get my mounted and when you might mount it.

[00:37:37] But the idea is you've really got here. You just want to enhance it and maybe when it's 30 knots and you don't want to use it for a graph short. And they're perfectly normal wind foil board. But then if you want to teach you.

[00:37:52] Life or kids or family or whatever that's a foil you can put it all on and get them out of that water and they can learn foil or downwindings pretty cool. Maybe I'll get into that. I'll just use my wind board to see if I like it.

[00:38:05] That's the reason why we've kept everything to kind of a one size bits all you guys see if the kit make up how you want to do it because there's also some references to that. So going to screw it that's people posting daily.

[00:38:22] That's kind of the one on a put it on macas tray. I don't know whatever like that's the point is that this is we do the motor bit really good and you put on whatever the hell you want to put it on.

[00:38:35] We have no brand affiliational recognition or you have to use that and have to use that.

[00:38:40] That's the idea. Yes, it's crazy how basically a lot of sort of equipment reviews when I was in a month and just testing different boards different foils different wings or sorts of things.

[00:38:53] And I've got to use for drive all of them even which again just blew in your way. I use the access tray which is like roughly 10 liters and I put forward drive on and I had the PNG 1300 so it's a big foil lots of left and I got on for so easy and what I realized it wasn't actually the board that you know what's the big foil like that.

[00:39:18] If I was purposeful using for flat on the pumping. The board is irrelevant. It's just a platform for you to get up on foil. You've got the thrust on foil drive, you've got the lift from the big foil. You can use one of those tiny little pump boards get up on foil and then you're pumping around.

[00:39:34] But yeah, it didn't matter what brand with those using to kuma, Nash, access, F1 all the others that I've used in the past and for drive just let me use every single brand without any issues that there's always a way to manage it on.

[00:39:52] Where I really thought it answered question. That's all right. No, I appreciate it though. Where can I buy mine now? Don't forget to take a break away and talk about how to use it. That's all right. I love it.

[00:40:05] I've got to ask these questions of like how do you put it all on what are the technicalities and then we just automatically flood on him to have a fun day to actually have the water.

[00:40:14] Which I think is evidence and proper, let's exactly what we've been saying the whole time where all the bad thing out in the water and everyone you guys to be able to water as much as possible.

[00:40:25] All the technicalities and how to work so that stuff's important. We always default to just

[00:40:30] It's so much fun until that it's just like how we're going to be using the small oil and then it's like, oh, I think it was before I heard you guys like a few months ago.

[00:40:43] I was like, man, this thing would be awesome. I take it out in case the wind drops that I don't have to paddle halfway back. I can just sit there and motor myself back in as like

[00:40:51] It'd be great for wind surfing, but for foiling this would be awesome because a few times like I lost a wing or something happened and it's like, oh boy.

[00:40:59] Which is fun. Whatever you get yourself in shape, but yeah, and then I saw you guys as a, all right, this already does exist.

[00:41:06] Exactly exactly and again, it comes back to you know, like our original assist, it still is a perfectly good functioning product that we still support and so we don't sell as many of them as the past because the process always

[00:41:19] You know, there's been more power that will run time, more versatile. But there's a lot of people that even recently have bought the original assist being a bit cheaper.

[00:41:29] They're like, I live in an area where there's a massive big bay and there's a beautiful car and beach for lunch from and I launched there and I lay on my board and flag my wing between my feet and paddle for a kilometre

[00:41:41] To get outside the heads of the bay where there's a lot of me post, but there's been clips or whatever rocks or whatever and I lay in my stomach and I paddle

[00:41:51] The 20 minutes to get to the wind and then I'm trying to pump up in really very well, you know, pretty poor conditions

[00:41:59] To get out to the wing line and then I go home, I'm searching in, yeah, this is all we've found. Oh, she don't got to get back to the bay

[00:42:05] And then I go paddle for another 20 minutes and then like I'm putting on that just to go get to that and then I wing

[00:42:13] And then you go to dodge the great whites and stuff like all those shows and us and his spiders and the snakes in the water too Man, because they're You Yeah, all right, let's see these blades

[00:42:35] Yeah, so the water and then you go effectively what we call the motor part And the motor and the blades and the whole ecosystem So in terms of the motor part, this is the bit where we have 92 different adapters to suit all the different masks The incompatibility range

[00:42:58] As you would have seen it at the side and we're just moving to now, we're moving to a universal This is the outer part of the motor part that the motor actually engages into And this is an injection, my whole body is common to come to their recap

[00:43:15] And then as a universal part, that is the motor part that we met And then when moving to just these inner sleeves that go within the motor part To create the adapted sleeve specific to your mask

[00:43:31] Okay, so that's how that works and you got a lift you've got access aluminium you've got access power carbon Armstrong, you know, through the premises through this and actually I'm not going to listen to this

[00:43:45] Don't look at that website, there's a massive lot of this in getting a lot of very weak All the biggest best brands and they are as neat as required basins If you don't see your mask on the list, just email us and we'll make it happen

[00:44:02] Reason why we go down the part of We have one of many 92 adapters, let me just put that out there Flat out, we do not want to make an idea We would love to do all one size bits all But the freaking boiling industry is changing

[00:44:20] There's no standards like there is, you know, like bolt tracks or whatever There's no standards or pin boxes or whatever you want to call it There's no standard for masks, they are progressively getting wider or longer cord

[00:44:34] To get your strank up and they're getting thinner for less strain And then all the different brands have all sorts of different ideas of what they want to do And if we did a one size bits all or like choose the best adapter out of five

[00:44:49] And kind of just make it work Do those so many of the aspects that are so important to what we'll grow up to design Wised design like that So very quickly you've got a rigid, a proper rigid mounting surface

[00:45:05] Or a motor with a spinning propeller that you know, centrifugal force You know, while something spinning and then trying your rotate it, pumping, turning, while something spinning Create a lot of side load that we want, solidly mounted to your mask

[00:45:26] Everything in volume is going to stick up and stick around stick up this is no different We just style it up and stick this possible thing It's a proper rigid, solid mounting of a motor to your mask, which is 100% what you want

[00:45:42] It's impossible to do a universal, yeah, fitting all these things as well I think all in a different podcast or something he put it best with, I've heard yes And he's not willing to compromise quality and performance

[00:46:01] Just to make it easier in terms of even if you think about one pod, that's fine But what happens if you don't have and every single one of these pods is literally Fraction of a millimetre perfect fit, snubby hugging, yeah, against every part of the whole mask profile

[00:46:23] As such, there's no water that can get in between the pod and the mask Which would cause cavitation which would cause terminate some drag But also, that's just performance of the riding If you think about the quality of the products and the longevity of it

[00:46:41] If you're going to have sort of rather pad, sort of spaces or whatever They're inevitable if you have a universal pod Then you don't just have to worry about the cavitation and the drag

[00:46:52] You've also got to worry about vibration and vibration will eventually lead to degradation of the products And longevity then, you know, just goes like the window So I personally think that it's so worth this precision fitting

[00:47:11] And that might mean that okay, we'll do it with 93 probably more in future pods But it's worth it for that quality and performance And to make it a smaller spot, we're talking drag here when the motor does dip in it out of the water

[00:47:29] And motor going through the water You want a small as possibly being That's why masks are going in a fuse large as they're getting a small spot And the wings are getting in our tails, they're getting smaller, all that kind of stuff

[00:47:45] You want as little amount of stuff going through the water So doing a custom, a sleeve and a custom pod for every single mask People that are small as possible as sleek as possible as stiff as possible And it's also a mask is a wedge

[00:48:05] You're trying to push 26 kilos of thrust against a wedge You actually need a perfectly fitting adapter To distribute that load all the way along the surface area of the mask Not just on the training edge, we're not just trying to use like one size

[00:48:28] It's all feet that are pushing on the sides At the moment, we do have different adapters for the different positions on taper masks They are a proper pain in the unsprost The worst is these slim job masks are quite tapered

[00:48:47] Really wide cord down in the board of the base plate And they get quite thin, especially in the longer lengths I think it's a 95 and there's a long one as well I really quite tapered, exactly exactly exactly right we do need different adapters

[00:49:07] Another reason why we went to, so up until literally about a week ago We were producing the whole pod custom to a certain branch of that whole piece It's all just for the one mask in the one position in this case

[00:49:25] That is another benefit of moving to this outer injection moulded part We then just much smaller, easier, cheaper, adaptor pieces inside He's a perfect mask like Armstrong where if you want to run it up high in assist position

[00:49:43] What if you want to call that, you know, murder me the board And then also have the motor down low for flat water for all that stuff We can do a common rear section that fits on the rear half of the mask or way up and down

[00:49:57] And then have an include a large nose cone for up high in the board And a small nose cone for down lower Now the whole piece, does that shrink based on, so the length of your module

[00:50:11] Does it shrink based on the inner piece or is it always the same length And the inner piece will just be bigger or shorter Yeah, we do have So these new design does have a common rear section and then a longer nose cone and a shorter nose cone

[00:50:29] And these will come standard with all kits so everyone gets both And like an Armstrong close to the board in this sort of position We can have a much larger internal piece and you use to large a nose cone

[00:50:45] And then to run with the pod down near the foil You would use the smaller nose cone and the smaller included section That slides into this nose cone to use that lower position So you will get all three pieces included in your system

[00:51:02] And then when you get a taper mask in the mask, the adapters You might get one common rear along nose and a short nose for the different mounting positions And you just choose the right nose cone piece to hang away your ears Okay, okay that makes sense

[00:51:20] So then you can put it in two positions on the mask, are you able to put it in various or just top and bottom You can move them around again different length masks have different levels of taper

[00:51:33] And the pod will want to sit naturally in a different place The taper mask through, I quite tricky but a lot more parents are moving towards that taper mask And again for really good snow development

[00:51:47] He's always going to be ideal and there is a little bit of play in that in each position on each different masks But it is also possible obviously to use some very thin tape or insertion rubber Or something like that again, something really stiff and really solid

[00:52:03] And that's where as unorthodoxes it does sound something like a duct tape or something like that A fly very carefully and vertically flat You can take up a little bit of volume of space Mainly around the nose cone where there's not a load

[00:52:19] Again like we talked about before The motion is pushing onto the back of a wedge of a mask If you always want the back to be solid and perfect Which generally speaking the trailing edges of these masks tend to be around the same sort of shape and profile

[00:52:34] Where is the front of it gets this half of the pod is what's taking up most of the space around the rest of the mask And you can pack out a little bit of excess space for a little bit more adjustment

[00:52:48] But it is one of the really tricky things we have to manage with Take the masks it is quite hard for sure but more than you will If the mask is in tape then you can use the same rear and nose cone

[00:53:01] And literally just slide it up and down and put your legs on the same mask Yeah exactly and that is one of the benefits of an aluminium mask in this case And that's where we see a lot of people again

[00:53:13] It's a retrofit product you want to reuse or the same here that you've got And we do find a lot of people using a aluminium mask dedicated from the photographs And then they put the high and one mask but they're totally annoying

[00:53:28] Or they're being a wing because it can generally Using that really being key before draw some of the topics you've got an extra assistance Okay, okay, all that makes sense then So then how does all of that come together?

[00:53:41] She got your battery box, is it running with cables and how does the throttle work? Yeah, so there is a cable that runs between the motor and the battery box So when you position the battery box where it may be on your forward

[00:53:57] Whether it's at the back on the tail on the sub, whether it's slightly further forward on a small approwning board Or it's quite thin like that You run the cable down

[00:54:05] We don't have a huge amount of stuff here within arms reach to show you all the little bits and pieces Stuff like that on our website and YouTube and whatever

[00:54:15] But there's cable attachments that you can stick down to your board that are removable if you don't want them To wrap that cable through box down to the motor And then the controller is a trigger style Controller Pretty basic and straightforward

[00:54:33] While it's connectivity between the controller and the box And there's a fully proportional throttle trigger on one side so you get full proportional throttle Oh no, it's just sent to 100% on the main trigger It's quite comfortable to hold in like a pistol grip style control of them

[00:54:54] We do have a panel mount that it's like a holster that slides down into a mount And you can put down your paddle, you can also use that on the high angles of a wing or a bow and go at that

[00:55:07] And there's like a little landed included so you just hold it by hand And then the top trigger is a cruise control function as well So you can triple tap that and get a cruise control feature

[00:55:20] It's really nice to just line a board and just move it back out Or each one of those other apps in the wind line or anything like that

[00:55:27] I really want to say this and I could say yes, one of the highlights about trip to AWS I we were at the hatchery And it was blind and it was really good conditions And we did one of the classic runs there

[00:55:42] Well, the classic down run is about 800 meters, maybe a kilometer You go from the main launch of the hatchery and you come in as certain points And then you carry a board onto the road you walk up the collaborative at the launch point

[00:55:54] And you do it again and again and again And if you're lucky to be a truck coming past that will give you a lift back to the start point But we're forward with we were literally moving the 800 meter run

[00:56:07] And then line a board tapping cruise control and literally just being motivated back up to the start point And then turn around and do the run again

[00:56:19] But it got to the point where the sun's going down and we were like right we can definitely get another one or two runs in if we're quick So run them coming down off the board and use some cruise control

[00:56:31] We were literally at the end of that one K run, which is tenderness, stay on foil You bring the board down so it's just above the water and then the words at that point the motor is in the water

[00:56:42] And we're literally just pulling the trigger around about 80% of what for him at 60% of me at 40% or 100% And we've got literally doing that continual motorine back against the winds and against the swell

[00:56:57] And you get to the start point, you turn around and we do it's either the honey, the laps we can bring about eight Eight laps soon Day of the said from that day, you did 12, 12 and a half kilometres of foiling

[00:57:09] On foil, the entire time in one and a half batteries And that was another thing that we had to do a lot of that little battery run But it was never had so much fun like it was just crazy And we got to the end and turned around

[00:57:25] So most of the back up wind, well these guys were coming off the water and started to walk up And I think we don't at least two laps by the time they got back to the start point and walked their words back

[00:57:36] Oh no, it's for again, yeah, it was crazy I've never had so many people there, there's so much foiling going on We're like, oh, let's somebody rather than doing all sorts of crazy stuff To be able to just line out boards and just power back up

[00:57:52] Up wind and just watch the whole circus happening with those pretty cool till I'd rather do that and walk up the... On the ground the right, but get it, yeah, don't say this is proud of us

[00:58:02] I'm pruned down winding, I could not do this for that full drive And there's people like, like Ben said, we're passing people like Posse, your hands and all G.R.E or G.D. And then came to us and we're passing them as they're down winding

[00:58:19] And all of a way, we're actually down winding sort of next to them There's no way that somebody like me with my skill level and fitness level could keep up with those guys without full drive It literally, it's like ten means we're falling super in your life

[00:58:35] It's not like, right? How would you have the voice of an action man? Yeah, yeah. Oh nice, that's awesome Well yeah, it was exactly what I was thinking of Would have been nice to have and it was so cool to meet you guys there

[00:58:53] And then see how all these pieces come together And then obviously my mind when is it, well how is it going to work for all these different masks you got that cover too

[00:59:00] So yeah, yeah, that's pretty awesome. So now what brand are we're sorry, what retail stores like we can find this in Canada, we can find this in the States like How's that retail network going or is it direct to you?

[00:59:14] It's either all at dealing with it because again, we're only puppy is old, we've been developing this as we go and doing things naturally and not not forced And not too quickly, we want to find a little bit of like us that

[00:59:32] All about making sure you've got the right gear and you're enjoying your time out in the water and have the right backing and support So the deal is that we do bring on

[00:59:42] I'm going to say few and five or two years because we've got sixty on dealers now around the world it's quite a lot But you know, we're very selective about who we are, who we bring on board

[00:59:54] And we're not out there on a massive drive like AWS Cypher Us was not about we need to find a dealer in every county in America and every you know province of

[01:00:05] A memory place in the world that was not the purpose it was to meet the people and go to the show So there's also a list about dealers all online on our website

[01:00:17] And yeah, it is growing but it's growing slowly and naturally make sure we've got quality of a quantity we go on you know

[01:00:29] We're not about just getting many of these things into the world as possible and just selling as many as possible that's not what it's about we wanted to grow and be a really solid built brand we've brought back the end support

[01:00:42] Yeah, and it'll get bigger and better as we go that's sort of helpful so the announcement on that one. We get these part of your dealers now make sense in America. Thank you

[01:00:53] Okay, that's cool. Okay, and maybe I'd love to learn a bit more about you Ben and then also about yourself to just to find out like when did you guys first obviously you grew up surfing were you both native of Australia

[01:01:09] I mean, yeah, four and a lot of work don't from the UK. You know, but yeah, we've both definitely a strange born and bred comes to the zone like we're talking early before we start at the accident and we're like kind of stop

[01:01:24] Yeah, plays around and there's some love but it's been crazy how much of the fully well, especially in the surf side of things that comes out of Australia and using one of that matter a lot of weaning

[01:01:36] And we technology and satellite technology, oil, yeah, and all that stuff comes out and using them which is pretty cool.

[01:01:43] We're very small market down here, but we've got some of the best for surfers in the world for short and downwind isn't yeah a bunch of really good wingers and like I stopped but yeah definitely Australian

[01:01:55] And then don't be in the UK, but then lived in a man for many, many years.

[01:01:59] From the UK lived in a man for the last eight years, that's where I sort of started falling over sea back and through every year's going to it has its very unique conditions

[01:02:10] Predonably very like winds but very consistent like winds. They're all completely flat calm days as well. So I go into to dox starting and let us start thinking about really to begin with.

[01:02:23] And a little wake morning, but if you drive down safe this is really good surf spots as well.

[01:02:30] Last five six months I've been living here in the out of the leads just to be able to find out for drive guys and and in a bad month's time will be moving to Europe to start for drive here literally bring for drive to to hear

[01:02:45] I'm facing full drive operations that run in from another lens and just taking it to the whole of Europe step by step.

[01:02:55] Oh sweet so how are both of your first wing foil sessions and when was your first foil? By the way, this is how the reason that drag don't mean to this bone cows because knowing that you're a wing foil on cows and we background.

[01:03:09] I have 10 windball sessions under my belt if that. That's weird. Yeah, I mean I don't have any wind sport background at all. I've never sailed and I've kind of had two cutting lessons I got from a twin tip and when one direction for a bit and then eight.

[01:03:29] Eight a bunch of water and I was like that's really cold.

[01:03:33] And again, the flying side of it and the wind side of it, I fly RCR planes in windy condition we see that the top of the hill and fly a plane off the draft off the top of the hill.

[01:03:44] So like the whole the concepts that we're playing with and not new but the action doing it something that I have not got a huge amount of experience with and I'll openly say that.

[01:03:55] But I will say from so then I have the voice or opinion of a brand new winger. I have never gone winning without a foil drive because I do not want to walk up the beach hundreds and hundreds of years.

[01:04:10] I don't want to go out in 20 knots where I think I'll be able to get up and we don't really have in here in Adelaide. We have to drive quite a way to get to nice flat car and water that's windy it's all oceanfront.

[01:04:27] So all of my lessons all of my self-trial learned to win is all been in the ocean so for two really windy so that I can get up and have been on power.

[01:04:34] The ocean state is quite lumpy. So I don't have that perfect groomer flat lake windy wind shadow rock wall type arrangement anywhere at me.

[01:04:45] So to go out when it was 6 knots and no, I'm definitely not going to get up on foot and I'm a pretty short guy too. I'm not super tall.

[01:04:53] So there really be winds. I've really struggled to keep the amount of water so I can't get up and stuff.

[01:05:00] But I can run smaller gear on nine of days in flat water. Use the motor to get out to the wind line and don't burn any energy doing that.

[01:05:09] Learn to get up on foil. I either use the motor or if there's enough wind, I can just I'm not overly good at pumping the wind.

[01:05:16] But I can get up on foil and I can foil them one direction and then I try go back the other way switch for which I've not done any off because I surf foil.

[01:05:23] And I'm an absolute cook at that and then I start falling off a bunch of times to get tired and then I just moved back up wind.

[01:05:29] And I practice the whole wind handling thing trying to usually cook a crash trying to go the other way. Usually can't motor up wind again. I have not had a huge amount of wind experience.

[01:05:42] But for me personally, what I want to do in the war and what I want you to get out of my time in the water. I just want to surf and I just want to ride away.

[01:05:52] I can't, I really would like to be able to wind confidently but with the limits of the amount of time I have a water if it's windy and especially because I have to wind in the surf.

[01:06:02] I'm just getting out of flying the wind the whole time and surfing. I can definitely see the appeal to then just grab the wind back, burn back up wind and then downwind back again.

[01:06:13] But I can do that with the motor anyway. So, for me, the appeal to wind is kind of like, yeah, I'd like to learn to do it if I had a bunch of time off but I don't have a bunch of time off.

[01:06:25] I barely have any time to jump in the water and if I just want to surf, I may just motor off onto it and then just downwind and then just turn around and motor back and then downwind again.

[01:06:36] I'd like to learn the wind if I had the time I could definitely see the appeal. But, personally the location we're in, my personal desire what I wanted in the time of the water and once I'm downwind I don't want this being blocking around my head.

[01:06:53] But this absolutely no way I would learn to wind without my forward or obviously have access to them. So, I have to take the monetary side up and out of it.

[01:07:01] But let's get a random and write your name down in the list and yeah, see you bring it back.

[01:07:08] But the safety factor of not having to worry about am I going to get stuck out there? Is the wind going to drop? Is the wind going to pick up and I'm going to be out on my depth.

[01:07:17] And I just want to get back in and now we're at this thing blown around and this surf building, I'm going to get it back into the wide water with a forward and a forward and a forward and a wing.

[01:07:27] I know that is just, and it's the same with downwind you don't want to get off the topic of winding but it's the same with downwinding of so much boiling and so much offshore boiling is mindset.

[01:07:38] And if you're worried about an things and you're worried about not getting back in or having too small foil the wind might drop with it.

[01:07:46] And if your positions do not look right, you never really get a get the most out of the time on the water. I mean, never really get a perform in the way for a part how you would like because your brains just stop and you and you're always writing safe.

[01:08:00] Half the time. Especially the latest sessions that you're learning to wind foil, I barely use the motor really. I was getting much better at going back in the other direction was fairly using it but there's no way I'll take it off.

[01:08:12] I say, like how much thrust is that thing producing so if it's 20 knots or 25 knots for example and there's a good amount of current. Yeah. And that thing is a couple whatever it's not that far off the bottom of your board. Yeah.

[01:08:26] So are you you're able to because next year when you guys come back down to AWS I am trying it this year I didn't get to try it.

[01:08:33] So are you able to kind of fly your foil a little bit so three four inches off the water and then how much can nothing propel me up wind if it is actually pretty strong and there are some lumps there. That's a very young.

[01:08:47] Again, how long's the place is during I'm really not like I'm a pretty small guy. I'm going to be dragged into wind is a lot smaller than I pull. Who's six. Okay. I'll make you six for something. Yeah.

[01:09:02] So it's very well but I mean all three of us it was not under how many of you was that there is probably 20 knots. It was at least to mean not something like that and we were all e-foiling back.

[01:09:14] The e-bottle flat water for driving board this far off the water under the power boiling back into the wind. But that's a wind.

[01:09:25] Because if you're holding a handling trying to to mount a continuously up wind before driving, the wind itself is creating a lot of drag you are creating another drag.

[01:09:36] That's why if it's really if it's 20 knots per se I'll be down in a little speed crash or pretending that I'm. You know what I'm saying? Try bars by type thing superman on the ball as pretty. Oh yeah, that would be.

[01:09:51] From that type position standing up you certainly slow down because the wind is catching you direct on look at your. I mean as well. Yeah, for example that. Yeah. In.

[01:10:03] So the wing I wouldn't say that in 25 knots plus you would be able to you know, most upwind while you're holding a wind that the purpose of follow-joy event is still too full to get you up on foil.

[01:10:16] Yeah, either with a smaller foil and in strong winds or. Get your fun foil and super light winds and the second one is obviously for the safety aspect I literally have.

[01:10:28] Just forgotten how many times I've gone out because again in the month we usually get films and as the sun goes down goes down super early over there. And around about five five thirty.

[01:10:41] The wind will drop and I try to after work a tiny case every last of a minute so I can on on foil on the water and I'll be going.

[01:10:49] I'll be dropping off coming and then it picks up a little bit so I want to do one more run and of course inevitably I'm you know one over one K offshore when the wind finally drops.

[01:11:00] I know can't get up and foil but with foil drive since I had for driving started using it for. I've never had to do the paddle of shame back because I might have lined my balls supporting the wing above me or just some of my feet.

[01:11:16] Or if it's my big light wind board which is usually the case I'll just be kneeling on that holding the wind. Really improve control and I'm just getting in and you know, it's literally at this and the safety factor for me is is priceless.

[01:11:33] But just to come quickly back to the most range of the wind and that downwind scenario like at the hatchery. Sure, yeah again. It's not the intended purpose of the product. It can do it.

[01:11:45] I can do it up to I'm going to randomly put a number around that sort of twenty knots with most people, decent size wing, very tight work. You can put punch back into the wind. But again it's not. You can do it but it's not.

[01:11:59] It's in a system. It's in a system. You're going to be back. You run through your venture super fast so to expand on the hatchery session.

[01:12:08] We got in the water relatively late in the afternoon so it's been all day running around like headless jokes trying to get all of our stuff that we'd sent from all over the world. Into wood river set up and you won't place them.

[01:12:19] Yeah, we see this with that. It's a bit of a tactic. The portraits to the hardware store. Anyway, it was pretty great the afternoon we got the water. We have multiple batteries each so runtime is not a huge concern.

[01:12:34] It's not Sunday morning where we've got a all day free and it's night am and the weather conditions looking awesome all day. We want to write a thing you have to conserve energy as a battery energy.

[01:12:45] The first battery that we did each is when we're lying on the board using low power cruise control to just lie on the board and motion it back into the wind. It takes longer but you're using. Power consumption to speed is not a linear line.

[01:13:02] You will use like I'm going to use very round numbers but we do actually have an idea for a lot of graph and everything on this. But to go twice as fast you will use like four times the amount of energy out of your battery.

[01:13:14] So if you're just monitoring along slowly going twice as fast as you could paddle, you're using a very small amount of energy out of the battery and the battery will last.

[01:13:24] I think we could be counting in in flat water conditions twice as fast as you could paddle at 35% throttle this will last like four hours. You're never getting on foil and that's for you.

[01:13:37] But you just go twice as fast as you could manually paddle. You're getting like four hours at one time out of it because it's not using my power. It's just ticker. It's like going for a walk, you could walk all day into 12 hours.

[01:13:49] If I tell you your run or job for 12 hours is stuff. We've got some different sort of things who has over a kilometer from the beach to get to the reef brain that he serves.

[01:14:00] And he puts him on cruise control and he's using less than five percent of the battery both of his time he's got there.

[01:14:06] Yeah, yeah. So in that hatch, we're considering battery power or motoring efficiently in displacement mode lying on the board, taking a longer period of time to travel back up wind and then we're using full total of out and then we serve.

[01:14:23] Once it was like, I don't even know what time it was. It was twilight and people started to come out of the water and we're just like, This is so fun.

[01:14:33] That's where we were just punching into the wind and using 80% 90% throttle which is like you're going through the battery really quickly doing that.

[01:14:42] But we had 20 minutes left before it was dark to dark and we're like, let's go. Let's get many transins as we can right here right now. The battery goes black and 15 minutes. That is lying. We have a bit of demons of light.

[01:14:55] People are understanding on the side of the hatchries we were motoring up. They were used to watching us stoned down and then gently motion or cruise control lying on the board. Still getting twice as many glass of gas.

[01:15:08] There were a lot of sort of hard firework we were initially going upwind as fast as we were going downwind. Didn't they were looking at us going, how are you guys doing that? What's going on?

[01:15:21] Even the government used to say that looks absolutely sick. They're only using it. But that's where again, you have to understand this equipment and what it's worth and understand.

[01:15:34] And it's not hard. It's just a very basic understanding of if you pull full throttle, if you sprint down to the end of the street, you'll be knackered pretty quickly. If I tell you to go for a slow and leisurely walk, you can walk all day.

[01:15:47] If you walk all day and then sprint for two seconds and then walk again and then sprint for two seconds and then walk again.

[01:15:54] You stuff, you stuff, you have to have the day. You just have to do the back tree as a kind amount of energy and how you want to use it.

[01:16:05] You can get on the foil and hold full throttle on a small wing and do it around a flat water.

[01:16:10] Nineteen minutes later, you fly. But you can go out and surf and get if you waves or 60 waves or 70 waves in three hours, you get the same amount of energy. It's just an understanding of how you want to use it and using it to your best of abilities.

[01:16:30] And it's efficiently as possible. Just what I'm making stuff. Just don't expect to go out and get an hour or two hours of continual nurturing around, especially with a small foil and a small board.

[01:16:43] But I'd have personally got four hours using just one standard battery on a 110 liters of support. Only using it as an assistive gun on foil, riding waves sometimes I'd pump back out.

[01:16:56] But I've only ever used it as an assistive gun on foil and on cruise control to help me paddle out back. Never using it as a on foil, most are in a long. Easily get two to three hours, three hours more.

[01:17:11] Depending on the equipment you're using and your waste and everything's still level. A lot of people are pretty true. But you're finished with your photos. You get more efficient, more efficient, you have that number of the last and the small foil you can use.

[01:17:26] Conversely I've got light, Ben said under 20 minutes because all I was doing was continually motioning around carving around is literally just ripping it up as much as I could on flat water. Yeah, I was on the right.

[01:17:41] It was on the uptrip on idle on a PNG850 and it lasted, I think, roughly 20 minutes. So 20 minutes to three to four hours. You can do either, but you know, you've got to understand this with limitations. That makes sense.

[01:18:00] Yeah and I guess just having that as an assist like I could just see it on some decent size swell. You just pop up, you ride for a bit, you pop up again like that would be that would be phenomenal.

[01:18:10] But would you if you were doing that then? I guess you could, I'm just thinking a mass placement where I'd like it. Is there, because they're fairly late so we'll let throw, does it throw you off when it's much lower to the foil?

[01:18:25] So you can, you can kind of ride a bit higher up. Motor height on the mask is a compromise like everything. It's a compromise between, so during the takeoff phase is a compromise between how quickly you stop paddling when you go for a wave.

[01:18:42] As soon as the body, if the motor's really high to the ball and as soon as the ball leaves the surface of the water and the motor leaves the water, you lose your thrust.

[01:18:50] And then you've got to get that technique really right on the board load, get it up to speed. It's really going quite quickly and then you pop up and you go it.

[01:18:59] If the motor is lower, then you've got this extra buffer time where the board gets off the surface. You lose that drag of the board and you really start to accelerate and then you climb up and ride it.

[01:19:11] You climb up and ride it up and take off technique can be much slower when the motor is further away from the board.

[01:19:19] The balancing side of that is, and then obviously if you're trying to motor back out on foil, because the motor is to the board, the harder it is because you've got this tiny little window to try and foil on, especially if it's choppy, it's really difficult.

[01:19:36] If the motor is lower and you've got this more of a buffer and if it's on the board, I'll just say that's drag, it's trying to pull you off a foil and stuff like that. So that's what I want in that side of the equation.

[01:19:47] The other side of the equation is then when you're boiling, you have more clean, when the motor is high, you have more clean marks, that motor is never going to touch down.

[01:19:58] Again, huge amounts of effort goes into making this stuff as small and as high as you might make it as possible. And the motor dipping in our water is nowhere near as bad as a single piece of weed on your wing tip.

[01:20:12] When you get weed on your wing and it just drags you straight down. The motor front does not feel like that at all, but it is a physical eye. It has to go through the water and it has to cause a little bit of drag.

[01:20:24] That's much time and effort has gone into making that as meaningful as possible. And it's in line with the mass and all that kind of stuff is not pulling you off a line or anything. You can very easily. It's not like kelp. No, you can very easily.

[01:20:37] Yeah, like kelp whatever you get stuck that. Yeah. It's insane. If it's stuck around whatever, it's literally like you're going to, yeah, your two kilometers an hour, you can still plain if you're still up, but you're like you can't even move. Exactly. So yeah, okay.

[01:20:54] Your brakes are the motor part is nothing like that and you can very easily dip the motor in and out. A lot of people don't even notice when they do that here because you hear a little bit of splash but you really don't. It's not dragging off foil.

[01:21:06] But in saying that it is still drag. It is a physical. We've seen a few posts from people lately in forums and I'm very just tossing it. It's a zero drag system and you're like, I've been talking about other things in the world.

[01:21:19] And it's like you can't be zero drag. There's a physical object that's going to be no more. It has to be drag. You can your mask, the talking going from 19 mil to 14 mil eats all of that drag in. It's a little spots.

[01:21:32] So that's the other side of the equation. It's the high you have it. The more tiny masks you have again come into that saying we love using our foil draws from when not using them. But I have more of the antenna purpose.

[01:21:47] It's always going to be a compromise. This is around about 20 centimetres from the ball if you like. This is the moment this is about preferred heights. I used to have it around about here around about 25 centimetres below because when I was learning, it just made everything easier.

[01:22:04] And also in a month it's always choppy because you always have this thermal wind which creates choppy water conditions. So that extra length of the mask, the motor was always in the water form.

[01:22:18] It made it a lot easier for me when I'm going upwinds and then I turn around. And I'm now trying to keep the water level around about here. So even with the mate of position here, it would go into the water depends on what's occasionally.

[01:22:32] But it wasn't the end of the world. And I kept that most position for ages. And then when I got here, I know just progression. I think then points it out in the video just how often the motor was dipping into the way.

[01:22:48] That's always said now, I don't know idea. So I thought I could let's try it up here. And to the first couple weeks it made it a little bit more tricky to do the motoring part.

[01:22:57] But it was so much better from the point of view of the falling part that I set with it. Now this is my preferred position. But then actually has it here around about 14 centimeters. Because that's his preferred position.

[01:23:12] Now what we're talking about drag when you don't continue motoring, you would have the most of the pump down here very close to the fuselage. Now we're talking about this drag issue. If you've got a little bit weed around here, you're stabbed before you're mass whatever.

[01:23:29] Then you really feel that it's slowly down in its horrible. But later we'd always prefer to do flat-wraping, surfing downwinding. I always prefer to have the most part out of the water because it's just that pure feeling of falling.

[01:23:45] I have had the pump down here and use it to get up and foil, use it to cruise around, find a bit of swell, find a tiny little wave. Even go out to the wind line and do a bit of downwinding with the most spot, always under water.

[01:24:01] And you can do all those things. You can pump on flat-wrap. You can surf if you can. That's there will always be that little bit of extra drag from the most spot being under the water.

[01:24:13] If you're continually changing from this cis position to the continual motoring position, you will notice that drag a lot. But I used it purposefully in this position for about two or three weeks and half a through that period of time.

[01:24:29] I got so used to it that it didn't really bother me anymore. And I found that I was like, well, let's see it though. But then with that, this is the position that I was like, yeah, that's very good. Yeah, give me a choice always this position.

[01:24:42] I have a, you know, obviously I find a place in my falling repertoire for that continual motoring around. There's testing foils whether it's just doing flat-wrap, full driving, just carving around continuously and flat-wrap was it. You know, so if everybody's a compromise, you know, choose the right conditions.

[01:25:03] One of the views that followed drive is, it's used up on whatever board you want. You want to wing in the morning and down, wing in the afternoon or surfing the morning and go teach your kids. You said how you want, that's the beauty of it.

[01:25:18] We don't, it's not pigeonholing to being a one-trip pony. And that's what's blown us away in the last two and a half years of just how many things like huh. Never thought of using it like that, that's pretty cool. But that could be fun.

[01:25:33] Yeah, the doc starting guys, like, why would you want to, if you're not going to doc start on a pun-brand, you just eat for a, like, just go buy an eat for a.

[01:25:42] But then it's like, well, I want to learn to pump that's the point of jumping off the dock. I have no way of getting on foil, but I want to learn to pump. And you're like, huh, yeah, that makes sense.

[01:25:54] I get a small lot of weight motor and eliminate the scary doc, be it jumping off the dock and getting a wing tip to the face. And eliminate that. And then just get up on foil and pop up and then learn to pump.

[01:26:04] If you'll, that's what, you know, you might be a spoiler or a wing spoiler or whatever else. And it's like there's no wing, there still want to get my fully fixed and I want to work on my skills. I can't pump very good.

[01:26:15] And I'm sure it's not jumping off a jetty. Go and motor up onto foil and then just pump and do it on your wingboard. So everything feels the same. I think a lot of people with chocolate change gear a little bit too frequently too.

[01:26:29] And then I'm really home into maybe that's just us because we have so much gear supply to us. And, you know, available for testing that, you know, a compound I barely ever ride the same wing twice.

[01:26:42] But a lot of the time it's like, I need to stick to the same board and I got to get my head around this board and I go ahead around this type of wing.

[01:26:50] And I can learn and even if I can't go surfing because that's what I really want to do. I'm still learning to get my head around my board, my foil. This tail I really want to try swimming.

[01:27:00] But like you can do all that and still be as close as possible as when you just go out wing. You get your gear dart in any condition. So it's been pretty cool.

[01:27:10] It's definitely exceeded our expectation of where we thought we'd go and watch Pete would use it for and all that kind of stuff. And it's some exciting times. Let's just go. Well, yeah, did you ever think that your company or that you would be doing this like 345?

[01:27:27] Whatever years ago, do you ever think that you would actually be contributing to so much happiness? No, no, I didn't. And I think I've got to brought that sort of side with up too because, you know, we're talking about like trying to before and burning this stuff and.

[01:27:45] Shipping batches around the world, if anyone ever wants to get into shipping batteries around the world just don't just save yourself like that. Just don't. It's a nightmare. And it's personally ever had to ship a unit too and a time when it's been a morning.

[01:28:01] His name is a good time. I don't have to do it in a way to look places to ship with your own batteries too. As much as there's all these difficulties and trials and tribulations and all that kind of stuff.

[01:28:13] You're open emails and you see a guy with a blown out shoulder who served all his life and his water days were over. And then he said, he's panning, he's got a fall drive going to falling. Now, for us twice a day because he's retired.

[01:28:29] And he's like my water sports career and my who I am as a person has been time extended. And it's been a year and a half. And I'm not sure if you can see the whole game that you know is a very nice place to make that big.

[01:28:51] And I don't know anything about my life in my life. of world drive and me on some sort of film. I don't know how I managed to get a lift along for the ride, but yeah it's crazy. Every time somebody comes up and tells you they're story,

[01:29:08] you just think I'm so lucky to be a part of this crazy ride because it's truly amazing. And again, it's so good to be here. Busy working people don't have a huge amount of time. It's their leisure time, their mental release and physical release all I can stuff.

[01:29:28] And they just want to get the most out of that time. It's been really, really cool, but I think we've been far too excited on like myself and Paul. We just make this stuff and get it out there. The community we built around at the peak

[01:29:44] we've met along the way. The shops are dealers and now our team that's grown to like 18 or people somewhere. That has been it's a huge team effort and a lot of this stuff, these products and like us up. These little small improvements

[01:30:01] in the way that you do things. It's not just quick and fingers in the dark and night, but I deers in the first prototype is done overnight. We could have had assist classes made in a few weeks and that I couldn't give into Dom in Adelaide

[01:30:17] and helped him keep it going and keep it fresh. But to make it as robust and put it in a shoe box and send it to the other side of the world, and it will work and be a good quality thing that will last a long time

[01:30:31] and you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of it. It's really really hard and has taken a proper team effort. And our team is growing sustainably and naturally when I put it again, just hiring a bunch of people something that's so much stuff.

[01:30:49] We're doing it naturally and letting it build, but it has got to that point of being on people and we've got a full, you know, obviously support staff of the film and staff, again, we manufacture a lot of these stuff ourselves. There's a full manufacturing team,

[01:31:06] there's a full ironed team, there's testing guys, sales guys. It's like it's really cool. And we have to thank those guys too because this doesn't exist just from Paul and I having a collider in a background in Electronics. And don't be fooled. Oh no, yeah.

[01:31:25] It's a box because a lot of time and effort has gone into making this system perform not just well, but it is incredibly robust. And yeah, the performance you can get from this system has literally changed my life. Many, many times over.

[01:31:46] And yeah, we've, okay, so it's begin with, their concept was I suppose for, you know, big, fuzzy, suck words, that sort of thing, just getting your accounts before, no most of them around. And now, it doesn't just help beginners and people who are struggling with

[01:32:02] by the injuries or fitness or technique, whatever. We have got some of the top riders in the following world who are using for the drive. And for whatever variety of different reasons and they are ripping them. They are so stoked to be, you know,

[01:32:19] a part of the whole thing as well. And, you know, so it literally is, in my opinion, it's not only the most versatile bit of kits available, but it can help with every single falling discipline. But there is a use for anybody in everybody,

[01:32:35] regardless of what situation you're in. Now, we've got the aids. It's one of those things that it's not through everybody. I have the deepest and every spec for those people who once and like that sort of feeling of achievement from conquering the most difficult thing

[01:32:51] and falling at the moment, paddling up using your own skill and technique, paddling up with a sucked down reward and doing downwinds without any help from the kind of law that I mean, serious matter of specs out. I have actually paddled up on a big,

[01:33:07] a big, old-aid for barracuda style award on flatwardser. And my god, it nearly killed me. And yeah, I could tell you, you can't really go on that one. I felt like we were at 60, it was that crazy difficult. And like, hey, we're training with something else

[01:33:23] that could probably do it. But then, you know, how much time it is, did you want to put it? Yeah. I would rather have time on the water. I would rather not feel like I've gone 10 rounds of my Tyson the next day.

[01:33:36] I would rather guarantee that if even if I've got one hour or even half an hour to spare, I will go spend 99% off that time on foil having fun. Where is it? But could it do it there? You know, how on earth are you?

[01:33:52] Yeah, then I can't guarantee that I will get up on foil every time. I can't guarantee that, you know, I'm going to make best use of. If the conditions change in a rock, if the patient is not expecting,

[01:34:02] I can still have a good time for regard as the conditions. It's a good moment. OK. OK. So like when you get that thing out, obviously you're going to hear it spin, right? So you just let go of the trigger. Yeah. That's as easy as it gets.

[01:34:16] And then obviously when you dip back down. So if you're doing it down, wind your, for example, and you just pop off. So you're going to zip on zip off, zip on zip off. And that's all you need. You can zip on for a second, get back foiling,

[01:34:28] and then turn it off again. Yeah, I mean, again, we're trying to just assist you get onto foil, the main goal. That's what I mean. Yes. In reality, on a good downwind run, you should motor out a little bit to get to the wind,

[01:34:43] get up once, and then the fork was done in life. It's a little bit to get back in. That's obviously the goal. But again, not everyone is at that level yet where they can read the waves perfectly read the bumps perfectly. So we're winning too.

[01:34:56] Getting reality, if there's enough wind to stay on foil and you get all of your tax and jobs run, all you're everything you do on foil, you should really amuse the foil dry just to get out and get up and come back in. But then there's reality.

[01:35:10] And I mean, life first foil downwinder 50, 60 starts, 50, 60 times. Oh, God, I'm falling off foil. I don't do breakfast. You know, I'm not riding a pump or I'm sitting high and dry in between or whatever else. And then yeah, you can just grab a bunch of throw

[01:35:30] and get back on foil. Much the same as guys downwind winning. Is they surf, they surf, they surf, oh, I've stuffed it my legs again tired. Grab a bunch of wind. We work a lot with James Casey.

[01:35:43] I was gonna say, I'm here, we need the best downwind up, but just to categorically, the greatest downwind at the moment. We work a lot with him and one of the best things he taught me about learning to downwind properly,

[01:35:57] is whether it's a wing or a foil or drive, if you feel yourself coming off foil, if you want to actually learn, don't grab the wing or don't grab the throttle. Let yourself come off foil, reach starting, go again, because then you learn, you start to recognize

[01:36:11] why did I come off foil? Whereas if you just constantly grab the wing and power that up again and then pull that onto the next section, your brain moves on and if you're doing the next thing, and you never really learn why you stuffed up

[01:36:24] or why you didn't make it. Again, do as you please, if you have half an hour until dark and you just gotta get there. Yeah, grab a bunch of throttle and get onto the next way and do it. And if you're having an absolute blast cheating,

[01:36:40] you're having fun. Yeah, this gets through the little bit of time. Oh, you're cheating. Who am I cheating? You're watching you, am I cheating myself? How, okay, I'm cheating myself. Why haven't you ever really cool time? Really good. It's a place to be fun. Really good.

[01:36:54] So the water with the biggest smile and the best head stays after. It's like, I don't care, you know. No, sir. Well, hey guys, that's awesome. Did you want to cover anything else? We've talked about a lot of stuff. It's been pretty fun.

[01:37:11] I know it's been a lot of this shot, but I think I'm about the only other, it's not really closing the lot. I'm sure we'll get sidetracked into a lot of things but I think it's important. Okay, that's a good. It's important to is that the system

[01:37:25] we've made very modular. It's very robust but accidents happen and things happen. And again, it's electronics in a very harsh environment and it's a spinning motor in a very harsh environment. Anyone who owns a boat or a jet ski or a house near the water

[01:37:43] or anything, it needs maintenance and it needs looking after. And that is something that I guess we took a very honest adopter approach of saying, well, most things of this kind of nature, you have X amount of time and then you've got service and on this time interval

[01:38:01] and you have to send it back to a service technician or a service agent or a former manufacturer or whatever whether it's a jet ski or your app or motor or whatever. You've always gonna get somebody else to do the work unless you're a session on a job.

[01:38:14] We can't wait the other way because we knew being a small lightweight retrofit package like this, it's gonna get used in a lot of different ways. So we knew that people in working places in the world where it's difficult to send things back.

[01:38:28] The amount of these things running around makes sense for your boats and sitting on islands in the middle of a specific somewhere or on. And in Canada, on some random private lake or whatever, we didn't wanna have that force to you have to send it back to Australia

[01:38:44] to get some of the stuff fixed and you've got to send it back to your deal and you've got to back that four hours away or whatever. So we made the system very user-friendly to service yourself as well.

[01:38:58] Even to the point where our motor design actually comes apart and at all times, every single session you can just pull a motor apart, wash it all out or clean it all out and specular bearings, expect the paint protection.

[01:39:15] Again, you can take the cover off your app board or the seat off your seat do, jet ski. You can take it off and you can wash it all out and you can maintain it and go, there's an oil leak or I've got water in my hull

[01:39:28] or this paint coming off the lake of my app board and then we have instructions and a lot of information on our website and via our deal is how to do that work yourself. If you wanna send back the lake of your app board

[01:39:42] and give it a touch up spray point to protect it, here's some tips and some recommended products to do that. If you're not comfortable doing that, short, go back and see your deal and they're all much more versed in doing it or it's got stuff.

[01:39:56] But having all of the parts and pieces available, we fully get another stand that not everyone is nearly a little geeks sitting in there with a workshop like Paul and I are and have a net knowledge of this kind of stuff and just a very hands on

[01:40:12] and we'll tinker and play with stuff where you can understand that not everyone is like that and they just want and there's people everywhere in between where they just go, I don't wanna touch it you fix it and I'll just pay you to do it.

[01:40:24] Or I'm not only like tell me how to do it, I can do that, that's easy, I've got so very on everywhere in between so I think we're pretty unusual in that sense, especially in this electronic space. That, we try to accommodate two various different peoples

[01:40:41] willingness or skillsets or understand the work of life. Yeah, because it's a big a lot of development. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so you can either fix it yourself, you've got tutorials, you've got all that stuff online and obviously they can reach out and ask questions as well

[01:41:00] if it's something that's not there. Exactly, but also by design, the parts and modular and computer play space like an old-talker battle. Okay, what I've been forcing to hold, like a whole new thing, if somebody didn't tie his board down to his roof properly,

[01:41:16] what actually I think he didn't tie it to his roof at all. And it's holding board and foil and foil, it's a little bit of the roof. Okay, no, he's holding the average. That happened. That was just a mass and a lot. And like the box got,

[01:41:32] not 20-half but it was like, he hit the road in a car just about hit the whole thing and like, on the floor, it's like, it's not just, oh, I go on back to the floor road side, so that's why the car can't start again.

[01:41:45] We fixed him up with a, and I mean, it's the same in the serve too. There's some guys into a heady that have certified deaf wishes and serve themselves into the most ridiculous ways. And again, they get caught on the inside.

[01:42:00] They tend to foil out of the board, they snap the wing and half, everything floats to the bottom of the ocean and sits there for three days, including a foil drive, tumbling around on a reef for three days into a heady of all the storm passes.

[01:42:16] They go scuba diving for a week later that find boards and boils and motors and the box. And they send us back the box, we put a new lid on it. We put it because it was all scratched out, we put a new battery in it

[01:42:29] and it did tear them, cable out of the motor and out of the box. Remember, this is like ginormous waves and any in the bottom of the ocean. Oh yeah, three days. New boat. Good R&D battery, new lid. Good to go. Done. Oh, wow, okay.

[01:42:45] So it boils down to nice. You're getting tested. Yeah. What's that, sir? I was the same electronic spokes. They used to like the main, that's functioning parts over it. That was, we started with the use again. Yeah, the repair cost was minimal compared to the total price.

[01:43:05] When they were like, fully like these things a while, if it's just gone, it's done. We're like, that bit's fine, that bit's fine. Yeah, you know, these bits have been compromised because I mean, look at your board and your foil and your mask is snapped in half.

[01:43:18] But yeah, that's fine. We'll just give you the bits you need and get you back in the water and off the, off the work back to the next ginormous wave. So I think, yeah, I think, like, I think it's just been quite amazing to bring out

[01:43:33] that, you know, it's an electronic product marine thing. It's gotta be maintain and service, but we make that as easy as we think we can. Data day maintenance is super easy. Like Benjus Shogi, you pull the road to Canada

[01:43:46] if you flush the state or on the road to Canada with fresh water occasionally, like mental damage times a year could be once a few days once every week, once every two weeks it's just spread a little bit of rust preventative spray like lonely or WD40 on there.

[01:44:01] And it will literally last, as, you know, perfect your original light of from two and a half years ago still running out in a mile. My original assist, which was the second one that dropped the production line is still in use and perfectly 100% operational

[01:44:20] and yeah, that's an amount of really hot stuff. And it's super easy, so I think. Oh, whoa, okay quality stuff then. Yeah, that's why it's because it's Aussie made. Exactly. Exactly. And it's halfway. We've, that sounds funny and I love. Yeah, for sure.

[01:44:39] Well you got a nice team, that's pretty cool to see that actually. Yeah, it's more some same thing. It really is every single person here. It's just like a big family, every week cares or we know it does what they need to do,

[01:44:51] but I have fun at the same time. So messages after hours, been people already left work and I get a message to, oh, I've forgotten to do this and I was thinking about it in the shower and I've forgotten to send this person to the truck

[01:45:02] and we can do please send it so that I don't do wait until tomorrow. And I'm pretty sure it's all good to wait one day but like, maybe that's, and then again, that is actually genuinely what goes on our crew. Yeah, that's cool.

[01:45:16] I committed to making sure that people have this had this gear, have a good time. And I think, you know, without saying this, hopefully much has too much. Our all-derive owners group that community of users and dealers

[01:45:31] and fans and our crew or all-floating around in that music group I think is a true testament to where it's not, again, so many companies just throw away that line. Yeah, we've got really good customers support. It's like, it's such a throwaway marketing line

[01:45:46] a lot of the times, but if you want to see that for yourself, just go to the group and ask a question and either I self-polled on anyone in the team here, we may not answer it first because our customers, yeah, to us first.

[01:46:00] I was gonna say, we're in a mobile and we've got group first starters. They used to be that any in every post, any in every question, by the pool have been answered. Then obviously, some of they got taken up by the support team as the team grew.

[01:46:14] But now, they've got a tough time answering before the rest of their full drive sort of community has already given all the best answers anyway, so it's just, it's awesome though, I can mean. Like, it's awesome. It's awesome. But so a team and those guys are absolutely legends

[01:46:31] and as I said, I get too many texts that I was thinking about this last night because I was trying to think, can you please make sure we're aligned to show that we do this tomorrow or get onto that person off. Reflying with a question, it's crazy.

[01:46:45] It's a mathematical thing, but hmm, sure. Sorry. But in saying that, I'm gonna have to run if I do have another meeting in 15. But I'm, all right fellas, this was a blast. Awesome to chat. Because that's why we started or you started this morning business

[01:47:02] so you can have me sitting off and you didn't want any time of all the time. No. No. No. No. Well, hey guys, so if there are, anybody's looking to get a hold of you? What's the easiest way? Web site, instale, that kind of thing? Yeah.

[01:47:45] This is really information you want to know. And we try to follow that up with us, Rambling and don's pretty good at that. That's really unbelievable about a particular topic for hours and hours and hours. So we try to square out as much

[01:47:59] of that kind of background context. And again, no smoking mirrors. What call does it is? And we never tried to claim things that it's not, and it just does what it says on the tin. And we open on a genuine people trying

[01:48:16] to help people get onto this stuff. That's what it's about. Yes, some guys. All of us. Well, hey, I'm stoked to see you. I'm stoked to see you both there next year at AWS. I think it'll be super fun. And I'm definitely trying that.

[01:48:30] Thanks for taking the time today to chat with us. It was super awesome. And looking forward to seeing what's going to happen for the rest of the year. I think it'll be pretty cool. Awesome. Thanks so much, Matt. Thank you.