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[00:00:00] Welcome to The Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing-foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Alright sir, it's nice to see you again. Yeah, good to see you. How was the... The first thing trip? I was gonna ask you that. How was it?
[00:00:29] Yeah, the flight home was okay. I... The day after I got home, I got this ear chopped and they... So they cut down here and they took a... You know, they made a big ellipse and then they took a circle of skin and they cut into
[00:00:44] here and they... They're gonna do a skin graft up to there but then they found that the skin cancer had gone into the catholic as well maybe. So they cut a whole polycatalde joy and it sort of got way more involved than they imagined.
[00:00:59] Last week it was taped up from here all the way around, you know. Oh wow. So it's like... Hey after that ear, that's not gonna work. I'm moving now. It's best to wait a little bit. How's it feeling now?
[00:01:12] It's a bit sore because of the skin graft thing and they've actually... They sewed that circle onto it and then they sew a circle of foam on top and it's squishes to skin down so that it joins up and grows onto out of here. Whatever. Okay. Okay.
[00:01:31] I've had one cut out of the top of here and I've had another one cut behind my ear and off my hand and you know, just on going really. Is that just based on family history or is that just... Well, I had my hand out there.
[00:01:47] I had read here and when I was a kid, you know, it was normal to have a scape on your nose and scape on your ears. You know, you were just blu-n't the bits wearing a hat and some is going to... It wasn't really a thing. Fair enough.
[00:02:03] Fair enough. Well, how did AWS I turn out for you guys? It was really good. There was actually, I think it was a quiet show that normal. But it was actually still pretty good. I've just realized I got the AC going next to me here.
[00:02:20] So it's a fun to... That's all that and then that off and make it a bit quieter. Okay. So you found a bit quieter than previous years for the AWS I? Yeah, I think so. I think so.
[00:02:38] I think perhaps the shops, less shops were coming over for it than normal. A lot of people interested in the staff and it was, you know, great to talk to everyone again. And it's always a good show to go to.
[00:02:49] But I think it was a little quieter than normal. How many years have you been going? Well, I used to do one on the East Coast down in Florida. It's called Surf Expo and I think I did that with 25 years. Whoa. Okay.
[00:03:08] And I've done quite a few AWS I shows as well. That's pretty cool. Yeah, wait. Yeah. Yeah, I missed for a little while then haven't you? Yeah. How'd you get into access? How the whole company start? Do you want to access or you want the beginning?
[00:03:31] I want the beginning. Yep. Okay. I guess it started. I grew up in and Ross A. Bay, which is not far from where I live now. And we had, you know, I had a little sailing boat and I learnt to sail and, you know,
[00:03:48] it was down the beach every day. That's what we did with down the beach. And then one surfing was sort of started and invented. And my friends got wind surfers and I wanted one of my parents wouldn't buy me one.
[00:04:00] But they helped me build one and I built it at home and I built it out of polystyrene with a plywood laminate on the outside and actually built the mast and I took the sail
[00:04:12] on all the various bits and pieces of it and put it together and made my first wind surfers. With the help of my mother, she helped a lot. I think my parents had big plans at me going to university and doing marine biology or something
[00:04:28] that I was, I got so into manufacturing and building things that I just ended up doing that. I built a few wind surfers, I was nine and a up, getting sponsored by a company just down the road.
[00:04:42] That was called Wind Voice Hawaii, it was a New Zealand branch of the Hawaii one. Oh, cool. They taught me how to lemonade and I built boards for them for quite a few years.
[00:04:54] And then when I was back in the 19 or 20 I moved to Hawaii and she worked for Wind Surfing Hawaii and a Wahoo and Kala Wabe and then everyone kept coming back and saying how Windy was in memory.
[00:05:07] So, I ended up going to Maui and I got a job laminating for Jimmy Lewis who was doing the sailboards Maui factory, Baldwin Avenue and it was a business that was run by Fidha Wood and Mike Walsh.
[00:05:25] So it was the early speed sailing days and early days Mike Walsh is one of the pioneers of, I've actually wouldn't surfing on Maui so, early days on Maui which is great fun.
[00:05:38] I worked for, I came back and forwards to New Zealand Hawaii and New Zealand Hawaii for many years and in New Zealand I started my own brand called sailboards and they were just became underground. I went up and I was doing platforms.
[00:05:54] I came on building boards during that whole time and then towards the end of that, kite surfing started and I did underground kite boards and built those in Christchurch and New Zealand we exported them all around the world and that was a very busy time and kind of
[00:06:17] the peak of that I think had 15 girls working for underground and then had a fire one Sunday morning and it burnt the whole up to the ground so I lost the recoil of all the factory, everything so
[00:06:30] had to try and get that up and run again and that was kind of a huge effort and by the end of that I was getting more difficult to export from New Zealand, the exchange rates were changing and it wasn't
[00:06:42] needed to move to China but I just you know I was a little burned out at the time so I sold the business to China and I worked for the company, the bought my business and I, yeah we set up
[00:06:55] manufacturing in China to supply for the world and twinters and they used our technology that would worked out to build boards for lots of other companies so. And the underground days we were
[00:07:08] one of them, the first to use I think we were the first to use Clooneywood Core which is now the absolute standard for all kite boards so yeah moved that all off to China and worked for that
[00:07:20] and then my the very first guide of build to buy an underground kite board in the U.S. was even my partner in access and when I sold the China he became the the distributor for
[00:07:39] underground in the U.S. North America South America and then when underground collapsed even basically said look you know it's it's it's too good we need to start it again so we came
[00:07:53] up with an M.A.A.C.S. and started access and access was primarily kite boards at the time but we even got mad team of foiling and then we did stand up for a board foiling and foiling and
[00:08:12] yeah oh that's a pretty cool origin story yeah like what you're with it yeah that's okay which part all of it all of it I think I went to Maui in about 84 something like that
[00:08:32] okay I forget that's now I'm 59 now and I started when surfing when I was about 15 and I've been building boards and some pieces ever since then oh wow so you lived in Maui for a while
[00:08:53] how was it when surfing there did you get to sail a bunch of different spots? I had eight years there Maui is pretty there's just been all sure mainly and I wrote more of the North Shore I did some
[00:09:05] winters there as well the winters are actually more fun when the big swell comes through the wind's not as reliable but the swell is just magic and you know it had some massive days there
[00:09:15] that are very very memorable I'll never forget that I don't want more surfing back then as well oh did you okay did you grow up surfing? I learned to surf when I was a kid I can't
[00:09:29] ever say that I'm a brilliant surfer but I've done a lot of surfing and I can surf okay yeah fair enough so then access kind of takes off it's making boards at the start in Morphs a little bit then into foils
[00:09:43] as well because you had started quite foiling's you're like what the heck will Muzzle start making these? we did kite foiling and then we did actually build some surf boards and we built stand up paddle boards
[00:09:56] I guess yeah our focus was kite boards to start with but it just slowly turned into into foiling over time and it became more and more just foiling and I actually remember a time
[00:10:10] I was saying to Evan you know I got access kite boating and we're selling foiling here there I think we actually need access foiling as a website and we sort of it was quite a conscious decision that we
[00:10:22] transitioning over to more foiling than kite boating okay and then foiling has a lot of technology in there and a lot of knowledge and what not that has to get acquired and put together like how
[00:10:36] did all that knowledge was that built up over the years of working and then it was but I think one of the biggest things is when we started doing foiling there was a lot of other people building foils
[00:10:48] and there was a foiling community there and I sort of civil you know wires for example the front wing in the fuselage you know most of the ones I looked at the front wing was the same angle as the
[00:11:01] the fuselage on zero degrees but it seemed to me looking into it that you know most front wings were actually running in an angle of attack and the optimum for most four sections
[00:11:12] seemed to be about one to two degrees so I said why don't we put the front wing on an angle to the fuselage so the fuselage is running like an arrow rather than running the two degrees through
[00:11:22] the water and sort of no one really had an answer for that or had thought about that so there's a lot of things with foiling that we um instead of just doing the same old same old we asked questions
[00:11:35] and found out and I think that's one of the reasons that we've done quite well with it is because we're kept asking we've never really done any um copying we're more trying to find out
[00:11:49] why how things work when we first started we decided that the front wing you know any of your fuselage's new back wing we thought it would be the best thing for the mast directly on
[00:11:59] top of the front wing from an engineering point of view it would be stronger to do it that way so you know we designed that built that and it actually followed fine but it didn't really want to
[00:12:08] turn um so as part of the control for that we built it we thought it was actually somehow the wing but we built a fuselage with the with the mast not in further back and then we
[00:12:19] tested right there and it fixed everything straight away and that you know instead of just going okay we'll just do it there we said okay let's do a test and we did a whole bunch of fuselage
[00:12:29] with the mast and different positions and actually found out what that did and why and you know I think we did a lot of investigation and working out rather than just doing the same old
[00:12:40] same old and in the long run I think that gives you a better understanding of why things are and if you have a better understanding you have a better idea of how to actually take it forward
[00:12:53] yeah because your company has a lot of like compared to other ones you have a lot of foils you got a lot of I guess different categories of foils and and I find that kind of fascinating as
[00:13:05] to how I guess how all that came to be well it's it's not really just a small medium large sport you know and I think with access you can start we have our SES kits which is a beginner
[00:13:22] kit we have the the larger BSC which I ideal for learning to wing and as you get into it you can just slowly more if you weigh into whatever you want to do in foiling and a lot of people at the upper
[00:13:35] end of it like if you're looking at hyperformance winging hyperformance downwinding surfing people there isn't a one setup that this is what you have to have and you know we kind of guide people
[00:13:47] and say this is the setup works pretty good surfing for example then people go out and test it themselves and they might find a slightly short of fuselage on slightly bigger rear wing or small
[00:13:58] rear wing and they find their own magic balance setup and it suited exactly for them I think a lot of people really enjoy that process and doing that you know it's not really a
[00:14:10] situation where people just want to buy a small medium or large and just go to it part of the magic is finding that balance running your magic setup so you can customize a little bit more
[00:14:24] than in this way completely completely for ever for ever customizing we do have a lot of wings but really if you sort of shift through it it's if you understand the access range it's reasonably logical process to decide what would work best for you and why
[00:14:45] and it will narrow down to not that many choices but it does look a bit daunting if you just look at the range and go okay where do I start? Well how would somebody new start in the with access
[00:14:59] things on the sport that they're getting into but for example if you're getting into to wing I said before about the BSC I think for most people a 97 here or 1060 BSC with a short
[00:15:12] red fuselage and a 400 original rear wing or 440 original rear wing and a 75 element new mast you can't get better than that for learning on and I think foiling is a journey and I think it
[00:15:29] shouldn't be rushed I think to me people try and rush to some imaginary finish line you're supposed to be enjoying it all the way through so you know when you learn it needs to be
[00:15:40] stuff that's easy to learn on and easy to progress on and you know as you you'll you'll know when you grow now to get ready for the next step but there's no rush enjoy your journey you know
[00:15:52] it is a journey that's true yeah especially with yeah the start of it is a very steep climb and then but if yeah a little bit and then you'll plateau a bit and then and then as soon as you get
[00:16:04] to that magic phase you can do so many things with this new tool which I find is pretty fast there we often have that with a new wing like we'll introduce a new wing I think back to a wing that we
[00:16:16] did years and years ago and it was one of our biggest selling wings we've ever had it was a 900 span wing and it was designed for wind surfing but it was quite high aspect at the time and
[00:16:31] it really changed everything I mean that became the wing that everyone used for winging for surfing for growing for everything it was an amazing wing so you kind of design it for one thing and
[00:16:43] it you who knows what it might become so I'm mindful of that too when we design a new wing and people say what it's before and so we've used it for this we've used it for this it does great
[00:16:53] for that but you know there isn't a boundary on where it might end up being yeah fair enough you kind of put it out there and see did you release some new gear at AWS I this year right
[00:17:08] yeah we released the some smaller pro wings so we did we already had the one two o one out already and that have been out for a while that takes you become our biggest selling wing
[00:17:23] ever which is kind of surprising because it's a massive wing and you know kind of almost sort of might be a bit of a fringe thing but the market for that sort of when it's as massive so
[00:17:33] we sold a lot of that and we've been working for quite a few years on smaller versions of that so we did the one one two one one over five one one one thousand one nine fifty one the
[00:17:46] 951 is the one that Edo was riding in the M20 I am probably in the course so so it's it's a very very fast competition down one thing wing but it actually still it's
[00:18:01] pretty good for prone surfing it's kind of like a speed type surfing it's not what you normally imagine but it does actually work it turns beautifully so it's still nice for surfing it's great
[00:18:12] for winning so it's actually I don't think that this wing we also had the Spitfire that we released the while back and that has been just a massive turning point it's been really really popular
[00:18:26] and it's been really amazing to have a trockler really good surfing wing and we added an AWS size 720 version of the slightly smaller because that one actually looks like a like a Spitfire
[00:18:41] the shape of it is slightly different compared to other brands can you like how how does that in relation to to let's see one that has more tips on it or that kind of thing how what is that difference?
[00:18:54] So if we go back to the the ART I should actually have some wings flying around really I know if you think back to our ART wing that was kind of one of the first
[00:19:08] early quite high aspect wings and it was fairly straight across but it did have some sweep in the outline and as soon as there was about two years ago and as soon as we released that
[00:19:19] we decided to start working on the next thing and the very first wing that we did was also 999 span but we called it a 999 skinny and it was less cold so we inherited the cold by
[00:19:32] 10 millimeters and the the thickest point of the wing we made it at dead straight line side to side maybe I can find a wind yeah that'd be awesome actually Oh we got Siri talking to us there it is I don't know if that's a Spitfire
[00:19:57] go away watch so the thickest point of this wing is a dead straight line so if you draw a straight line side to side it's you know it doesn't have any sweep in the outline
[00:20:09] so the Spitfire actually came out of that first wing that 999 skinny that I was telling you about that was a straight median line as soon as we did that wing it was amazing for turning and
[00:20:22] it was you know dead straight across it's not what you would imagine a surfing wing would be so we we developed the the ART Pro I think we did it just went on for two years
[00:20:40] all sorts of different prototypes and testing to develop the ART Pro that with the ART Pro the tip is so narrow that we ended up putting us it was actually an elliptical outline same as the Spitfire
[00:20:51] but we ended up putting a square tip on it we added a bit of material at the tip the reason we did that is that if you make the wing tip like on a very very high aspect wing that wing tip can's so
[00:21:01] fine that the end of it ends up just being dragged it doesn't actually create lift or any benefit of the rule so we just sort of cut off and added a square tip to it and that wing you
[00:21:15] know all of the prototypes we did on the ART Pro they all turned beautifully but they were fast and really great for winning and you know great for Darwin and all that and the same time
[00:21:26] is that we did quite a few attempts are really really good prone wing and we tried all sorts of different things and nothing was absolutely groundbreaking in fantastic and then there's a last
[00:21:40] minute thing we said well why don't we just do a lower aspect version of the ART Pro I mean it turns so beautifully and the ART Pro it had you know very little turned down on the tip which meant
[00:21:53] that when you popped it to power it breached really nicely it was predictable and nice turning so we basically just scaled up the chords so made a wider chord and because of the shape of this
[00:22:04] wing with a wider chord it didn't really need to cutting off so we just left it kind of looked to cool with all your wings you're really trying to get an elliptical load when you draw the
[00:22:16] wing and you know it was what it was so we just left it exactly like that and it looked the same as the Spitfire so we called it a Spitfire it wasn't actually designed intentionally to be like a
[00:22:30] Spitfire it's just how it ended up I guess the point of all of that is that the Spitfire and the ART Pro the kind of exactly the same wing it's the same foil section it's the same
[00:22:44] median straight median line same elliptical outline except that the tip has been squared off a little bit on the ART Pro but apart from that it is the very same wing and they do feel very similar to
[00:22:57] ride but obviously with a lot more chord on the Spitfire it's very very easy if very forgiving and fun to ride so what does this sweep do compared to like if that one's a straight median line
[00:23:10] compared to some of them that sweep down a little bit more what difference does that make what I'm talking the sweep that I'm talking about is more the wing sweeping back and it's out like
[00:23:22] oh yeah okay okay okay okay so when we first started doing wings we they were swept right back you know they were curved back and the idea was that you kind of had to have that to make things
[00:23:35] turn that's what everybody thought you know it's sweet was important to have a wing to turn but as we would more and more straight median line they just became more predictable more precise in their turning and so within doing all of our wings like that
[00:23:54] okay fair enough yeah so the turn down on there is how much it turns down from the center of the wing and you can see there's not a lot of turn down in that wing we used to have you know
[00:24:08] a lot of turned down in the wing tips and with with every wing you get a lift vector and the lift vector is at 90 degrees to wherever it is in the wing so you can imagine exaggerate if you
[00:24:21] had a lot of turned down on the tip the the vector would be like this in the tip which is kind of okay if both tips are in the water you've got any ground opposite force there but if you pop one
[00:24:33] tip out suddenly it's completely unbalanced and the whole thing crashes so that's why with this one everything is kind of more or less the same plane so when the tip pops out it just carries on
[00:24:44] gun doesn't seem to make any difference at all okay yeah I was curious about that why some some things now are able to do that more because some of them before they would as soon as you got
[00:24:54] any part of it out of the water it would just it would be a big crash quite a few of them sort of turn turn down a little bit and then almost turn up again at the end and what they're trying to do
[00:25:06] with that is so that when it pops out of the water it's again that forces is not unbalanced because there's no great outwards forced there but we did some test wings like that and it just complicate
[00:25:20] sense because you've got more vectors going different directions so that's why that wing is essentially it's pretty flat just with a little bit of curve in it and a little bit of curve just allows
[00:25:31] it to roll from side to side nicely oh that's all you need things pretty good yeah very it's a really simple wing you know look at this you know it's probably not much to it but
[00:25:44] it works really really nicely okay and then for so do you do you recommend I guess you would recommend certain fuse lengths or tail wings or mass lengths and everything but the nice thing about
[00:25:57] access is you can customize absolutely everything so don't try something and then they'll just be able to as the more and more they progress they can just tweak it even more and more and more
[00:26:09] so I'd say the naming conventions you know we've had short outer short crazy short so these short probably that confusing for some people I would say most people when they're learning I'm like going to
[00:26:20] BSC short fuselage that short length 680 millimeters as a good length to start on it's predictable and easy to use that number 680 on a red fuselage is just the actual length of the piece of
[00:26:34] element in which kind of nothing to do with anything I mean how long is the fuselage where the image of front the front wing to the center of the railing or would be a measure from the front
[00:26:45] to the back edge short to the middle to the middle you know there isn't really a measuring standard so it's a little hard to compare one one to another generally speaking though that the red
[00:26:58] fuselage on short is great for beginners and then on the black fuselage the ultra short is by far the most popular and that's good for most people short and that actually makes it much loose
[00:27:11] if atonement the length of your fuselage and size of your rear wing give you your stability so if you've got a longer fuselage bigger rear wing it's much more stable and if you have a short
[00:27:27] of fuselage with a smaller rear it's much more loose and quicker turning but all of that is a pre-set bolt together and then the problem happens when you go faster and faster and faster
[00:27:40] that fuselage rear wing that lever arm just carries on creating more and more and more lift until you can't hold it down with your front foot so the new skinny rear wings that were coming
[00:27:51] with they pay a particularly well with the pro and also with the Spitfires for winging because you're moving faster if you're more surfing on the Spitfires the original progressives are better but we're actually sized down a lot a lot of guys now using the 300 that 275 and even the
[00:28:12] 250 which was kind of considered too small before hmm now is you're sizing because you're saying numbers and there's some of them that use like you're sizing is different correct from other companies on I don't know I'm just sizing there yeah okay that's an 840 Spitfire and the first
[00:28:36] number that we we mentioned is the the wingspan okay that's a core for the 40 yep and then we do a mean at mean average cord I mean that's a really important number so the mean average cord is the
[00:28:52] the average of your whole entire wing so there'll be a maximum cord there and then it takes towards the tip for what's the average cord of the whole entire wing so the average cord and the
[00:29:06] span gives you a good idea of what the wing is truth is that no one number tells you everything but I think that describing your wing purely by area is a bit misleading you know because we have wings
[00:29:21] that are ridiculously small in area and I'm not that hard to get out because the span is quite great so you know we've always used span as our description for the for the size okay yes a lot
[00:29:35] of other companies have used a very rich one I think there's some sleeping that's a bit of an idea to compare so you have to take in span cord you have to take in the thickness as well of of the
[00:29:49] there's a lot of variables like in any scenario every wing like if I'm trying to look at a wing and trying to compare I look at the span and then I'll probably look at the mean average cord
[00:29:59] and then I try to look at the foil section what the foil section is and I know that the foil section up any spit file and if you're very slow but on some of the pros as well but it is a thickness
[00:30:13] percentage so if you take a hundred mills cord so the cord's a hundred mills on the 401 it's actually a 401 percent thickness so it's the thickest point is 1.1 millimeters on the 1000 and 1 that's
[00:30:31] actually a 10 and a half percent foil section so a hundred mills it's only 10 and a half percent thick so you've got your thickness of your of your foil and not necessarily a massive guideline you can
[00:30:44] actually have a foil that's a thicker percentage for the different foil section it'll actually be less dragged in a thinner one so we kind of automatically assume just because it's thinner that it's
[00:30:54] going to be faster but it is a bit of a generalisation every foil section has a camber as well so if you look at the foil section from the side it has a top a top section and it has a bottom section
[00:31:09] and the camber is an invisible line that's halfway between both those two lines and that's compared to a dead straight line a cord line and that's described as a percentage so
[00:31:23] for example that the spit file and ART pros and the ART they're a two and a half percent camera so that means if it was a hundred mills of cord and you've got your cord line which is a dead
[00:31:39] straight line and you've got your camber line that's got two and a half mills of camber and the more camber or wing has the more more curf the more bantiness in the foil section the more that creates
[00:31:52] lift so the PNG foil section for example is a three and a half percent camera very very high lift at lower speeds but it's not very fast it doesn't want to go fast and if you get it to
[00:32:06] its upper limit it just kind of hits a wall and won't it won't go any faster and just still so that yep the master example is a there's a zero percent camera it's it's symmetrical
[00:32:20] and the real one is a one percent camera and that's actually pointed downwards so the thickest parts on the bottom okay so then in what are the shims and come into play because you're
[00:32:33] because you're saying that it's there's a slight the front wing is a different angle of attack right so the front the whole key with shims is that all you really need to do with shims is to
[00:32:45] compare the angle of the front wing to the angle of the back wing and that's the most important thing so the art pros to split fly is most of our higher performing wings the BSC's a little bit different
[00:32:58] but it's take most of our high performing wings they have generally a one degree angle of attack on the front wing so the front wing is angled on one degree the rear wing at the back is actually
[00:33:11] angled down and that on all of the skinneast and the progressives that's one and a half degrees angled down so if you just bolt it onto the skin bolt any of those split fire art pros
[00:33:25] onto the front and just bolt any of the skinneas or progressives onto the back you've got one up one and a half down so the difference between the two is two and a half degrees that's the
[00:33:35] important number so if you're angling your rear wing further down that's increasing the difference between the two that's why it's described as positive shimming if you're reducing the angle on your rear that's called negative shimming because it makes the difference between them less and one
[00:33:54] it was originally so positive shimming angling the rear wing further down actually gives you more front foot pressure with any with any with any wing you're basically riding your front wing see
[00:34:06] your front foot and your back foot is sort of balanced on that front wing but if you didn't have a rear wing or you have a very small rear wing it gets very pitch sensitive and very hard to balance on
[00:34:18] so the length of the fuselage and the rear wing gives you that balance so that you can stay on it but it's sort of also relate back to what size wing you're using in a half heavy you are
[00:34:29] so if you're a bigger rider you can benefit from having a little bit more positive shimming on the back can give you that front foot pressure balance if you're a really lightweight rider
[00:34:40] you know you find it hard to hold the wing down and actually negative shimming it will make it more comfortable and easier for you and to now we sort of have tried to stay away from shims
[00:34:50] because a lot of people just completely confuse themselves and ruin everything in the balance by sticking shims and they're not knowing what they're doing describe you there's a a caler or something like that I think it's more important to understand what the shims are doing
[00:35:06] and place it in there to correct what you're feeling rather than just trying different color to see what it does you know yeah it's a pretty confusing yeah most people don't know
[00:35:19] what what they're what it does they'll have a bunch of different stuff and they kind of just piece together so or the the sharp pieces together for them yep generally most of
[00:35:30] the photos they're set for most riders just above the wings I don't go to I'll go from the rule but as you get to that upper limit and you're really just refining your setup the tiny little
[00:35:40] difference is made quite a big difference and the new shim kit that we've got it has a quarter, a half and a one degree shim plus and also a quarter half and one degree minus six shims
[00:35:53] and the kit and they're stackable so you can put the quarter and half together to get three quarters plus or minus and you can go one and a quarter one, three quarters except so you know
[00:36:05] if you want just a tiny bit more front foot pressure a quarter degree plus on the back or a half degree makes a difference it makes quite a difference so some just pressure fine tune
[00:36:19] front foot pressure meaning that you're just going to generate a bit more like it'll just lift a bit more in essence it's more to do with balance than lift when the foil is creating the lift and
[00:36:32] it's still creating the same lift but it's more to do with the balance on there like you want a balance between your feet and you need to have a little bit of front foot pressure just to balance
[00:36:42] on there so having more angle on the rear will give you more front foot pressure. Often for example when you hop on one of the skinny riffs there's not much to them and they work at the upper limit
[00:36:57] so when you're you know getting up to speed they're very squarely and loose to use but when you're going really fast they're solid and secure and they feel really good. So
[00:37:06] when you're first riding a skinny rear I often tell people to put a some positive shim in there say a one degree shim in the rear and it makes that rear wing more active you know it gives it more more downward force which creates more front foot pressure
[00:37:22] and that helps people to do some chances out one two three days you'll take it out and you won't need it but it definitely gives you a little bit of front foot pressure to make it
[00:37:34] comfortable when you're getting used to something that's a lot less. It's a bit squarely or huh yep any anything exciting coming out I guess for for 2024 beyond can you share anything that's
[00:37:48] it's in the works. We try and keep things secret but we're not very good at it obviously but we are working on lots of things we're working on some bigger wings for doc's that
[00:38:05] and for like getting into the super light downwind I mean one of the biggest problems with downwind is actually getting up on the on the on the foil and having a bigger wing that
[00:38:20] lifts in just about nothing and be able to ride micro bumps that are not really possible now that that's kind of a dream and something we're working on for a while. A lot of stuff to do there
[00:38:33] house at journey coming because that's pretty popular now. Yeah well we're getting pretty close it's not as easy as you might think with we found big wings actually quite difficult to make
[00:38:46] and the 12 or ones are good example we did four or five different versions of that and quite a few of them were terrible they were really really bad and we finally got the 12 or 12 on and it
[00:38:59] is really really good it's quite balanced it's quite easy to use it actually turns pretty good and you know we've released that and that's been a great wing out there but it wasn't easy. Some of
[00:39:10] the smaller wings are very, very easy to put into production and we immediately tried doing a bigger version of the 12 or one and it was particularly bad it was a terrible wing so
[00:39:23] you learn a lot from your failures though so it was it was a very interesting process and we've got some really good stuff happening in that now. Do you know what one of the challenges
[00:39:33] for what was wrong with it? Yeah and what makes it challenging to build something on bigger is yeah just two things with with bigger wings the lever is just greater so it puts more of a demand
[00:39:49] on your mask I've always said like when you're falling you're basically riding the front wing that's what you're riding so the front wing needs to be really really well attached to your fuselage and the way that we do the red fuselage in the back fuselage it's quite wide
[00:40:04] they went at bolts into the wing it stops it from rolling side to side so because you're really solid connection to the wing that's important the the join from the fuselage to the mast is really important and the stiffness of the mast is really important the stiffness of
[00:40:20] the base plate all of that's really critical if you've got any wobble or lack of connection and there then you kind of can't really ride your front wing efficiently because it's just all over
[00:40:30] the show doing its thing and you're trying to dance on top of it it's very very different stuff so fair enough yeah okay. It's definitely the joins the possible one of the beauty of the like
[00:40:40] the red and black fuselage the way it's just screwed on with the force screws is the tensioner screws is what holds it really tight onto that wide surface and you know you can have a wing
[00:40:52] in fuselage that's a year old two years old when you put it back on each time you're still talking screws up to the same tension so it fits just as well as it did the first time when
[00:41:02] it was out of the box you know you're not relying on you know some tape of fit to be perfect okay so actually fits really well makes an important thing so when you get into the bigger wings
[00:41:16] it's very important that you've got a super stiff mast and probably good chance to talk about mast before I get into that I'll just you ask about what went wrong with that the bigger
[00:41:28] 1201 and just part of what we were doing is we made the wing a lot bigger was scoured up perish now that we're very worried with the the the loading and holding that wing together so
[00:41:40] didn't just snap so ended up thickening the wing through the middle of it and what we ended up doing is we ended up messing up the elliptical load distribution so you really want the the loading of the
[00:41:54] wing to be most at the fuselage and then come out an perfect elliptical load from there and that one was actually loaded for the raft so it actually came like this the curve and
[00:42:07] it came down so then the the peak lift of the wing was actually you know this fire out from the fuselage on both sides so it was a little bit like a catamaran and you had both sides fighting against
[00:42:20] it and it was near impossible to actually control it and drive it in stereo so it was a great lesson for us and we learned a lot from it so this was really good to do that.
[00:42:33] Mass back to masks and the mask stiffness stiffness is is absolutely critical of my opinion and in my opinion it's it's a far more important question than the weight of the mask
[00:42:45] we we original carbon masks that we did we're trying to fit into the the expectation of the market to have a mask that was one and a half kilograms in weight and you do that by having this carbon
[00:43:00] and only got this carbon in it there's not a stuff and if it's not as stiff you don't get it's good a connection to that front wing and on a more high aspect wing it makes quite a big difference
[00:43:12] it's you know the wing gets all scary and difficult to control unless you've got a really strong connection so we had a aluminium mask which is really really stuff it's a great mask but
[00:43:24] it's it's an extrusion so it's the same thickness top to bottom so it means that you're carrying 19 millimeters down at the fuselage where you're carrying the water and it's a big
[00:43:34] fact chunk of mask so when you're pushing it hard at an angle of attack it does tend to release and you do get a a sheet water release off that mask because it is you know it's great for
[00:43:46] doc start great for pump it's stiff it's cheap great for learning but when you're pushing the extremes on it it's there's not going to handle super high speed stuff but it's just too
[00:43:57] fact to cut quickly so our power carbon mask it's got a taper in it so it's around 15 millimeters at the bottom and up the top even 100 mills down from the baseplate it's about 20 mills and that
[00:44:13] that tapered thickness the way that the mask bolts on it sort of like a cantilever and the the most load is right at the baseplate to bottom into the mask so you need to have
[00:44:26] a quite fat and thick layer to give you a solid control and thickness but down the bottom it can afford to be a bit narrower yeah so we did that and the the power carbon mask comes in power carbon
[00:44:42] which is normal carbon and then we do a home on the dispersion which is a lot stuff again and the aluminium mask it's kind of a benchmark for a lot of things there was a recent test that
[00:44:55] some company did it was independent to us and they tested most of the carbon masks on the market and they also tested the 19 mill aluminium masks and that actually tested as the
[00:45:07] stifferstment of all the masks they tested so it was actually stuff for them all of the carbon masks they tested I know that our power carbon mask using the exact same method of testing that
[00:45:18] they were testing with is 25% stiffer than the aluminium and our power carbon high muddress is 35% the mask that like when we came out with the power carbon mask we kept going with it and with
[00:45:35] with developed masks there are ways to for again and like the mask that I'm writing myself at the moment it's 55% stiffer than the 19 mill aluminium as a benchmark for stiffness and it just feels fantastic the control you get from that is totally amazing and it's one of those
[00:45:55] things that's very difficult to step back down when you get used to that stiffer mask it just feels great and you don't really want to go back to list of them that it's no lighter
[00:46:06] it's not a lighter mask or anything it's just stiffer and even when we're at the gorge we had the twins there and there was 60 kg they were quite light kids when they were going for
[00:46:18] dark start or you know a pedal up pump or whatever they were testing they always chose those special masks that were ridiculously stiff that was their choice so I don't think it
[00:46:30] relates so much to lightweight heavy weight you know I just think a stiffer mask just gives you that much better connection to your whole full thing as long as it's not too fat you're not going
[00:46:43] to go fast racing with a really sick mask so then you're not looking to generate any whip or anything from your mask you're looking to be able to ride the foil as though it was intended
[00:46:58] to be ridden and then the stiffer it is allows you it's almost like a race car that has tighter suspension it might get in that right yep well you're basically doing your lift you drive
[00:47:09] everything's coming from that front wing so you need to be as rigidly connected to that as you possibly that relates back to the joint of the fuselage the joint of the mast and the stiffness of
[00:47:20] the mast overall in the base plate and even the way it poked onto the board it's all going to be stiff anything that's losing energy in that makes a big difference okay fair enough fair enough
[00:47:32] and what's your we did it we've did a a dock start prototype would we're testing here today it's a lot of stuff in in in torsion and everything and everyone noted when they're writing
[00:47:49] that the control of the wing was that much better just from a stiffer board so you know stiffness I think is critical through every part of your whole entire setup and all the joints between
[00:48:00] your whole entire setup bottom and that's something more new right coming oh it's just there's another thing that we're working on okay fair enough what's your favorite setup of your own gear
[00:48:16] that you love to write um mainly what I do is winging and my local conditions here uh and in light or moderate winds I use the app pro 105 one and I use it with an ultra short advanced fuselage
[00:48:32] I use a 4625 skinny and I use one of my own fancy knots and that's my final favorite setup for most most of the conditions I go out and this that's a bit wider or there's more surface
[00:48:50] surfing I'll go out on a 900 or an 840 Spitfire but I'll leave everything else just the same that does me so you know I don't need too much gear you know you have access to all of it
[00:49:05] yeah yeah yeah let's go how was your first foil ride like what did that make you feel like um it's kind of a magic feeling like if you think back to learning to foil um I think back
[00:49:21] to write back to the beginning when I was sailing a small yacht when I was a kid and I was bang bang bang bang and then learning to surf and you know you're always looking for a glassy
[00:49:30] day so that it's smooth and not bang bang bang bang bang and then when surfing I mean that was absolutely timely on these oh you know it thrashes you and quite surfing saying absolutely
[00:49:43] thrashing bang bang bang bang bang and then all of the sudden foiling you know it's just smooth you get up on there's just yeah just going on but it's so magic feeling and it takes a little bit to get over that
[00:49:54] yeah how are they like we're about to hear you and you know yeah yeah yeah I'm just north of Auckland and we're in a peninsula that sticks out it's called Wonga Prop peninsula and we've got beaches facing
[00:50:12] every which way so it means which whichever way the winds coming from we can find a good beach and my local beach just down on the front of me here it's a check for me at windy today
[00:50:28] I'll come down it's only about 200 meters away and with sometimes get some small waves in there mostly it's really flat um and if I drive north from here we've got Manglye Hins which is a really good
[00:50:43] surf spot and good for wing but I went on as well it's pretty good spot for testing we've got a really nice crew here as well to ride with so a lot a lot of young kids there's a friend of mine
[00:50:58] from the wind surfing days barber candle she lives just around the corner and she's been instrumental in teaching all of the local kids to get into it and the level of the kids is just amazing
[00:51:09] it's crazy yeah yeah so it's really good to see see them we've been around doing that thing oh yeah it must be pretty fun yeah so who's riding for access right now what pro riders are
[00:51:25] riding for you if you know some off the top and then how are they doing obviously they're on tour and different things so I guess we seem to have been doing three well on the downwinding stuff lately
[00:51:41] and Edo is by far our fastest rider and the men and a liveer and the woman Edo had a really good race season and the way the Sierra was fun with his first race
[00:51:58] was the M2M and he was actually doing really well on that day he didn't really have a hand at where he was going and he saw everyone turning off to the finish and it's like oh so it came in there
[00:52:09] but you know potentially he could have actually won that race he was really fast but he just he didn't have a sort of dewears going and then the next race after that was the pedal and more
[00:52:17] race and in Maui basically in Malico run that finishes in Canaver and that race was kept and there was no more entries available so he couldn't officially enter that but he went in the race anyway
[00:52:31] way to everyone to start to design things cut through everybody and he won that race by a long shot and he was the fastest in that and then the M2O he could have done brilliantly on that but he
[00:52:43] had slightly too small of foil for the conditions and it's partly also to do with that race like no it's about 10 minutes to get out to the bumps in the wind, it's a crazy idea
[00:52:54] and then at the finish you could go around diamond head and you've got half an hour most of the time lying on top of your board paddling into the wind. It doesn't really make sense for a
[00:53:03] down one race to do that but you know particularly terrible start he had he actually started well and he was doing really well but he just couldn't maintain the pumping to get out to the bumps
[00:53:15] and he came down off his office board and the whole world went past him and worse than that all of the boats so he had at least 50 boats went past the chopping the water up so it was just in a
[00:53:26] possibly mess. You couldn't even climb back on the board or was that rough from all the boats and keep trying and falling and trying and falling and actually had 13 minutes and the water
[00:53:38] doing nothing so he gave the lead guys 13 minutes head start and right on the on the corner at China walls it was about 50 feet behind the leader so he was 13 minutes fast and then across the
[00:53:54] channel which is quite something. Oh boy, the live year one at race and the women she also had a challenge as well getting under corn and yeah just the tricky conditions of that race.
[00:54:08] And I'm the next race that we've got coming up is there's a downwind race in France so it's in October, in November and Olivia's going on an Edo's going in it and Olivia's
[00:54:25] showed me that it's a proper race this time with a proper stop and proper bumps all the way start and it's so it'll be more of a fair race as to who does what and be really interested to see
[00:54:37] how everyone goes in that. We're the bunch of riders in the M2O I think there's 11 riders riding access and they all did do it pretty well. Kyle any chose to ride our stuff he's not officially
[00:54:51] in an access rider, Kyle rides whatever he wants to ride and he he like our beer gear better than anyone else that can chose to ride it named 20 which is pretty cool. Oh yeah no because I've talked to
[00:55:05] I've had a couple schools on the podcast and both of them are running access and they just love your customer support and then they just love the gear so there's a school in Greece and then also
[00:55:18] and then obviously the school in in La Ventana with Ando so he's running your stuff but yeah I'm eating this primer. Oh yeah I know he's an awesome guy but even though the ones that
[00:55:38] that were in Greece, reckless riders they loved your stuff they just said this is he had tested at so many different kinds of oils and so many bored and so many everything and he just swore
[00:55:52] swore by your system. So it's wanted to talk to you a bit more to learn more about the system because it's a bit more unique I guess and there's so many options and then that's what a lot of people
[00:56:03] my buddies back and out are their riding access as well so some of them are. Yeah so there's a local school just down the road from us here Alan McIntosh, a school made loop and it used to be a
[00:56:15] Winzer school still does Winzer school as well but he does mostly does Win for an instruction now and right from day one we work with him developing the the learner gear and a lot of the feedback
[00:56:29] from him has been really really good developing what we've developed now and as you say I think the gear is you know we have gear from the very beginner all the way to the very most experienced rider
[00:56:42] yeah we have a lot of follow-in prone riders to the team riders as well based around the world and lots of downwind riders and wingers and you know we have as we develop new gear not the
[00:56:58] beginner gear but more of the upper range every time we develop a new wing we look at our range of riders and time ago yep it's good and it depends on what they do their conditions
[00:57:08] and their size and whatever so we'll send off to all of them and get feedback from them very best feedback that I trust the most is from myself but sadly where it seems to be going with a
[00:57:22] super small aspect fastwinds it's moved a bit beyond what I'm comfortable riding in more so it is good to ride and test myself as much as possible having to rely on you know team riders
[00:57:37] we would hopefully with that I want to take it through another pice too what we're doing yeah there's so a young enthron so many tricks now it's absolutely insane but okay so you're
[00:57:50] still primary testing then because you have all that years of experience to see what you want to do like are you drawing a lot of this stuff in the computer is it using a lot of software to
[00:58:01] come up with what you're looking to achieve or is it more ingest? We've been using a lot and I guess probably about three years ago the guide design Kevin that I designed a lot of the
[00:58:15] oils with the brand simulation on a lot of the wings we had already with the HPS I have to some BSC wings and it gives a lot of information a lot of different guests but one of the
[00:58:27] guests was basically a lift to speed graph and it sort of shows for a given way you can test all other wings on the same way of rider this is just a front wing alone and if I had all these graphs
[00:58:42] and I could see that you can see where a wind start where it actually takes off and then we're where the drag actually drops down to it's most efficient so where it's fastest and then the drag
[00:58:54] sort of comes back up again so the sort of shape curve and then some of the ART wings they start to get up on the foil but then the drag drops down three dramatically and you get and then
[00:59:06] you get a flat bottom and then it comes up again so you can tell by the characteristic of the graph like I looked at all the graphs and kind of went yeah well it's great you know I put a
[00:59:16] probably that it was it was really good looking back on it it was completely obvious to you know agree with all of that so we started using that going forward from the skin that we did two years ago
[00:59:29] and we've used it ever since and it's a really good baseline to get an idea of what a wind is going to be like that particular type of simulation has relatively straightforward and it doesn't take
[00:59:41] a huge amount of processing time to do but it just tells you what that foil you know where it takes off when it works but it doesn't tell you the characteristics of how it will turn what happens
[00:59:54] when you pop a tip out it doesn't tell you it doesn't tell you a lot of things it just gives you a bit of an idea and that's been really useful for going forward and going forward from here we've been
[01:00:06] with another friend here and he's got some it's full on software like it's turned in 50,000 dollars with the software and it's the same one that four of the Americas Cup campaigns are using and
[01:00:19] it is very very good for analyzing stuff but it actually does the whole thing isn't assembly so you know you can it the front wing the fuselage back wing the mast and you know how much
[01:00:31] mast you put in and you can do a preset course and cover course and you can pop a tip out or not so it goes through a whole range of stuff that the amount of information that gives you
[01:00:44] is mind bogging and how to interpret that and and everything is kind of a whole nother story I do think that's probably where it's going and I think that's where we're going to get some
[01:00:55] of our biggest gains in the future but it's actually learning to learning to interpret the feedback that you're getting from that sort of information it doesn't exactly tell you
[01:01:08] this is what you need to do you know it tells you a bunch of stuff and you have to work out what does their own main so yeah so I just so the most we use it we use it we do some
[01:01:21] some analysis and we also build things and testing ourselves I'm building and testing them is also a bit of a problem too because of the way that wins and you can't necessarily build a prototype wing because it has to be in the construction that you're actually building
[01:01:41] in to get the fixed characteristics in the field of it so you know you want to get pretty close because the mold that you're building is a CNC cat telling steel mold kind of expensive to build
[01:01:55] and you don't have to be building hundreds of those just on a win that maybe this will work you need to have a fairly good idea that you're hitting in the right direction yeah because and so you have to build obviously molds for every single different
[01:02:10] different product thing that you have right yeah okay yep yeah okay and now those can molds be changed modified or they kind of just we are as we go forward we're trying to build them slightly
[01:02:24] over size I mean they tried to build the molds as small as they could just so they could physically lift them because I mean some of these molds are massively heavy and they have like a sizzle
[01:02:35] lift table that lifts it up I mean and once it's all packed with all of the fibers and then it actually gets slid into a heat press and you know to be able to maneuver at huge chunk of metal
[01:02:48] you don't want to have a massive so we've been building those slightly bigger than they want to build them so that we can get a second or third go and be cutting them but you know it is a mission
[01:02:59] that brings on the idea of the code how is that win made so going back to the 840 there on the outside you can see the the weave and it's it's a woven carbon on the outside and that's just a
[01:03:13] 200g pre-preg carbon and that is CNC it's like a blade cut on the table but then inside of this there's all the actual lab and the lab has made of pre-preg unicardons and some of them are made
[01:03:33] this way some of them are made 45 45 degrees you know all different labs and it affects the the flicks and the field and the strength of the wind so same applies for the mast I think the mast has
[01:03:45] got about 60 layers of carbon in it and it has the woven carbon on the outside and then the internal is all pre-pregs I have with there is a core not much core because there's not much room for a
[01:04:02] core and the mast like there is some as well which I have with the wind. Okay so then is there anything else that you'd want to cover and tell people about your cool access company and by the way I
[01:04:15] met your designer of your shirt there and it was awesome to talk to you about how he worked on just a whole branding aspect of that logo I really like it. It's a pretty cool logo.
[01:04:31] So he's a mate for the early days of winter thing and you know I remember going in a wind surfing competition when I was twenty one and he beat me away back then. Never got over it.
[01:04:45] And he came on board I guess a couple of years ago and he's done all of the you know the graphics for the bells and the new screw boxes and a lot of stuff that's been you know a lot of new
[01:05:00] stuff to work on and he's really put it all together amazing and all of the parts looked like they're supposed to be together now so that's a great job of that. Yeah no I think it was this was it
[01:05:11] knee his knee he just had was he having surgery or something yeah yeah yeah that was too bad yeah hopefully hopefully he hails up and he gets his hat but yeah yeah he always has made the surgery yet
[01:05:24] okay okay okay okay okay very enough yeah so if anybody's looking to get into foiling and and what else do you think they would need to know about access that would make it their kind of go to
[01:05:40] uh I think there's obviously a lot of mate love information on xsfoil.com we also have a Facebook group that's nothing to do with us it's not actually our group and it's called
[01:05:53] xsfoil riders and that's just anyone that wants to be on there and they're a really supportive community and that's been quite amazing to watch that develop and you know people go on there
[01:06:04] and ask a question you know just changing over to xs and I've been writing this this in this and what how does that relate to the xs range and what would I like and what would work for what
[01:06:15] I'm trying to do it you know there's a bunch of people come on there and give really useful helpful feedback and it's been amazing to watch and see how that how well that works
[01:06:28] yeah very proud of that community on there and how they support everyone else it's great to see it's pretty cool that stuff hey I had a technical question actually um do you know how the
[01:06:39] the arms strong fuse goes through so they have their mass and it's a hole and it goes through and then there's bolt-on ones so do you know what the like obviously they're using titanium core
[01:06:51] on the one that I have and it just kind of snaps through that center is there an advantage to doing that versus just doing bolt-on like I said with a bolt-on before you know you can have it
[01:07:04] one years two years old and each time you bolt together the connection was just as good as the day it was first together okay with a lot of those type of fit there's a few companies do
[01:07:16] that like a type of fit one piece goes into a hole and you know the ideas that they fit perfectly and make it really good joint but over time that can wear it's carbon on carbon and you know
[01:07:29] it doesn't provide the support it does when it was brand new so I prefer to have a fit that goes together on as how together by bolts okay bolts don't actually um I could be looking
[01:07:46] to have mass joint or diffuselise joint for example the bolts are there to hold it together but they don't actually take much load the load is actually held by the bit that fits into the
[01:07:56] fuselage that actually takes the load okay and thoughts on the bolts just stop it from falling off oh fair enough okay and thoughts about the monoblocks with that are coming that are already preset you
[01:08:08] just pick it and go you know it's a it's a way of doing it but the problem with that is that it's not so versatile so for example the x is set up the front wing comes off the fuselage
[01:08:22] and you can stick another wing on there so if you have a system where the front wing has a fuselage or portion of the fuselage every time you buy that wing you have a buy that fuselage whether as well
[01:08:36] and we also have fuselage with the masters for the forward bars fuselage and with a fuselage it's further the masters mounted for the back and the fuselage makes a big difference depending
[01:08:50] of what you want to do so you lose the ability to have that adjustability okay fair enough yeah that's good point actually that's a good point all right I think most of the stuff we do
[01:09:02] is there for a reason it's not just for you know try to think it out and we try to make it so that is as modular as possible and does go forward and you can build whatever you possibly want to ride
[01:09:13] out of all the bits okay fair enough sorry you're going to get out for us maybe a quick little session this afternoon or yeah I can't this yeah yeah I've had it very enough I can't cut out my ear
[01:09:27] and I've got stitches coming out in a capital A so very enough you're going to rest I'm going to do so what are you going to work on this afternoon I'm going to do some emails yeah
[01:09:40] we'll go to the previous and actually organizing for the event in France too I've got a send a bunch of stuff to various riders over there getting ready for that okay I'm actually leaving
[01:09:50] on Friday for a family holiday in Indonesia so really weeks exploring around there and I'm flying to China to pick up some stuff and see the factories and then flying to France for the event
[01:10:06] for a week or so and then coming back to Indonesia for a week the impact can be used on for two weeks and then we've got the Murambia Classic in Australia which looking forward to that should be a great
[01:10:18] event so nice how has that been to be able to see so many of the different spots around the world with your own company how does that make you feel I love it I love it I've made a lot of people
[01:10:31] over the years traveling and I really enjoy the privilege of being able to do that and feel like I've got a lot of good friends that you know I'm maybe only in the week or so here on the air
[01:10:41] but you know they're friends all around the world and it's great to be able to do that it's a pretty cool community isn't it just how do you find the different companies working together
[01:10:52] are they fairly fairly friendly I guess obviously there's some stuff you have to hold secret but how's how's we doing that we just do our own thing okay we don't really
[01:11:04] don't really have much to do with any other companies we just do our own things and design our own thing and kiss with our riders and just focus on that yeah that's what Keith from KT was saying
[01:11:14] as well for board design he said I just we just focus on our own and everybody shouldn't yeah they just focus on their own stuff and it's all unique and good in their own rights yep yeah they do
[01:11:26] really nice boards I was looking at one of cars down one boards that hit down on look really sensitive I like to shape and theory and the idea is to put on to it yeah that's pretty have you tried
[01:11:35] done when it no I've had a heart condition for the past five years and it's a actual formulation and it just it took me into like when I went suck paddling my heart rate went up
[01:11:50] over over 200 beats a minute and then it would drop down to 40 and back up over 200 turn and 20 just feels like your heart I mean completely out of the limit every time it went out
[01:12:01] of simply like that I'd have to go to hospital and they they put electric pad on both sides of you put your sleeping give you a huge shock and knocked you back into and just sinking again
[01:12:11] they I'm basically had to avoid you know it takes the extreme like down one padlock isn't quite a bit of thinking about it okay they've actually done a phason and they're praising the
[01:12:24] I've been here on a smile and it seems pretty good so oh nice I like to try and start getting into that I'd like to try and into docks that this son of a girl will see that goes
[01:12:34] if you do that you send us over some videos we'll do yeah we've got just at the local beach in the next one we have a floating pontoon that goes in for the whole summer it's really good for learning to
[01:12:48] to docks that so I want to try that I could see that's here locally oh cool yeah it's really that's really getting huge some of the um look and switch so and then through swimming there
[01:12:59] a lot of the Swiss ski teams are using it across training which is just getting 7 I always think what could come out of there is quite amazing as well just watching some of the more recent development we've had with that and seeing what they can do it's starting
[01:13:19] space towards yeah it's been yeah completely brand new boards there's the skinny tough to get started and then the pros make it look easy but for for for us mere mortals it's
[01:13:32] going to be a tough venture but it's going to be fun it was kind of interesting to see all about team at the gorge because most of them put down wanting to use the app for those
[01:13:42] but the gorge is kind of a very special sort of a way that's quite slow and they get using their sputty's and you know who's doing down windows on the 7 20 sputty's
[01:13:54] five 12 mile down windows on the tiny tiny little sputty oh wow I guess they're getting a lot of lives there because of the current right well he was it was quite a big swell but he was more focused
[01:14:07] on filming the plant like the videos on me was fully surfing yeah that's pretty cool well hey agent thanks a lot for having a chat with me today it was pretty cool to
[01:14:19] see you again and catch up catch up absolutely let me know when when you got some new new or stuff coming out let us know how we'd have you back on we can share that with everybody
[01:14:30] and safe safe flight because you're going on your family vacation soon so safe flight hopefully get some down time yeah it was absolutely awesome absolutely cool well hey see you thanks everybody for joining us and we'll see you next time