Keith is the board designer & shaper for KT, Quatro & Goya. He joins us from Maui, Hawaii, to talk about his introduction to watersports, KT Foiling, the Dragonfly, Ginxu, Drifter and more. We also discuss down winding and how he plans to make it more accessible for everyone through board design.
https://ktsurfing.com/foiling/
[00:00:00] Welcome to The Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing-foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Okay, yeah I guess they would be. Well I guess we can start off with our you now. Keith? I'm in Maui, Hawaii. Yeah, Kunai Kuu, we're at the...
[00:00:23] I'm at my shop and just kind of getting the day started and... I usually come in around 7.30 and get a bunch of files ready for the my guy who cuts boards from me on the machine and then I'll get in the shaping room or I'll talk
[00:00:39] I have a... I have a shape or I work with, you know, partner. He does a lot of prep shaping for me and seems Adam. Adam Lewis, he's a professional wind surfer and now kind of turned, you know, foiler and broth there like us.
[00:00:54] So I'm going to work with him and then yeah, I just kind of get the day go on in the factory. You've been doing this for quite a while. I'd love to learn a little bit more about you and how do you even start into this world?
[00:01:08] Because you could play such a prominent part in it now and be fastening to learn a bit more about you. Well I mean I guess I was born and Madagascar live there 10 years and then I moved to the
[00:01:18] Caribbean and I started wing surfing so that's where I kind of got into water sports. You know, I was in the Caribbean till about 13 and then I moved to San Diego to go to high school
[00:01:30] and that's where I learned to surf and had kind of a passion for surfing. And every day after school I'd go and watch a shape or shape surfboards and he was actually
[00:01:42] shaping some wind surfboards for me at that time and so I kind of got interested in it but never really thought that I would be a shaker. And once I followed my passion at wind surfing then the natural next step was to go to Maui
[00:01:57] and so I found a way to like straight out of high school come to Maui and I started working for high tech. That's a surf shop here and they were really big and wind surfing industry back in the 80s and 90s.
[00:02:10] So I started working with them and then about eight years into that I started a company cultural surfing with three friends with Sean Ordinès who's a local shapeer as well and then Francisco Goia and then Jason Fryer.
[00:02:25] And once we moved into that we kind of separated one our own ways and I kept cultural and kept surfing and kept just kept going with shapes and designs that way. From there, you know, you just make connections with different people here and you
[00:02:44] know, kind of, it's all shaping wind surfboards surfboards and you know, started shaping some stand-up stuff and then I think it's been almost 10 years now. Maybe a little less where a guy Lenny came to me and I was working with him on other
[00:02:58] boards and he was getting into this foiling thing and so I started making him some boards for that and that's kind of where the foiling really started. Oh cool. Okay. How long have you been shaping before that? That's been 25 years since I've been shaping something like that.
[00:03:16] Oh nice. You know, first with him, gaping and I'd take chips to Japan and different places to hand shape and then eventually we got a machine while I started working with a local shapeer Matt Canashita and his machine and then finally got my own machine and just started
[00:03:33] evolving the shapes through machine shaping and still plenty of hand work but kind of gave me a good base. Can you mentors that kind of helped you kind of get started into that world?
[00:03:44] Well, I think Joe Blair in San Diego was the one kind of got me started as far as just watching. He was I wasn't there like actually physically learning the shape but I was just watching
[00:03:54] him so you know I kind of give him a bit of credit for keeping me stoked and you know interested and then you know when I was when I was starting to learn how to build boards
[00:04:05] a Sean ordnance, you know he helped me a bit and then Matt Canashita is a local support shapeer here. He was really open with his machine and advice and you know that helped but a lot
[00:04:17] of it was self taught and just making boards and just learning and making good stuff making bad stuff and just learning how to do it that way. Yeah, because you guys have a reputation there on Maui of riding the gear and loving
[00:04:32] the gear that you make riding that gear and then improving it based on that were a lot of other brands I find they're pushing you a bit more but that's not what we get from you guys.
[00:04:45] Is that because it's a bit more passion-based like is there more to it because you feel more connected to your brand than other brands do? Well, I would definitely say that because we're all like you know all of us that own
[00:04:55] the brand we obviously working in have different roles and we're really connected to what we're doing because we're not going to do something just to do it because it's going to make us funny.
[00:05:07] We're doing things that we are passionate about that I can feel like I can work on a design, I can understand it, I can ride it and then bring it out so that at least
[00:05:17] I feel like it's going somewhere and it's not just something I'm stamping my name on and so anything that we start going into and if we decide we're going to go into a new
[00:05:28] product we really look at if you know this is really what we want to do because there's a follow up you know yeah one year you can make it one year but then you know we usually
[00:05:37] do two cycles with two years cycles with our product because we don't what is just too much work to replace it every year and I don't think for you know innovation to change something every year maybe in the beginning of cycles it's okay you know with the Dragon
[00:05:52] Fly we're working on new stuff for next year because we feel like you know I can I can make and make changes and have it feel a different way and probably worth it enough but
[00:06:04] in general we we would like to work two or three years cycles to just let the product habits life let people enjoy it that there's a good a good use market so you can get
[00:06:15] to get a lot of money for your use boards because it's not changing and just really putting a lot of time and energy into each product like you're saying because we're passionate about it because we believe in it and there's that follow-up year after year and that's not
[00:06:31] just something that's gonna go away. No I like that and then so where do you get your ideas on shapes cutting edge kind of new designs is that just based on the writers that you have you got
[00:06:45] some pretty awesome writers writing for your team so I mean I think you know number one you know inspiration might come from a writer say you know cane we're working with cane now and he's
[00:06:54] he's got this idea for a board that's you know they take a late win wing board that's not a dragon fly and so we've been working on that with him and it's amazing so he'll come to
[00:07:05] me with the idea and kind of the general of what he wants and then I'll put it into the program and work on the design and then we'll make prototypes that way and then for me you know I guess
[00:07:17] the best example now is I've I've just went through the learning process of doing downwind paddling here I've been doing it now about probably three months and so it's been great exercise
[00:07:29] for me to go through because it's difficult it's very satisfying when you get it but it's it's it's difficult and so it's been amazing for me to go through the process learn and try and
[00:07:41] understand how I can make the boards more accessible easier you know what the limits of that are just kind of like we're out with it so it's been an amazing experience for me and then all the
[00:07:54] wing stuff too you know will make prototypes and I go write it and I'll write it with my team we discuss on the beach after or you know even when we're at the show I brought some new prototypes
[00:08:05] of the the drifter and the and the against you for next year you know got some feedback from just the normal world and you know all the writers that that are there and have their you know
[00:08:16] feelings and so that's been a great great source I like to have a source from writers from myself and from people that just aren't associated with us really so that I you know I get
[00:08:28] a and more of maybe a more objective you know feedback as opposed to a writer who might feel like he needs to like it or so you get to start knowing each writer and kind of their tendencies and
[00:08:42] you can kind of read through the the fluff yeah because you're in marketer are people who might not necessarily be connected with the brand they're buying it a because they love the brand or b because they just think the board is amazing well definitely yeah definitely for
[00:08:58] out of opinions it would be way to go how did kt how was kt born how was the name chosen and then kind of how did that evolve well obviously kt's my initials heat to bull so comes from
[00:09:12] that and you know originally and still it was our surf based brand so it's all about surfboards and writing waves and you know as we started getting into I've been into foiling since Kai brought it
[00:09:25] around and I've been prone foiling and then I started winging and you know now I'm doing the downwind so originally we're going to kind of keep it separate from the surf brand but we found that there's a
[00:09:36] good crossover between surfers and foiling and so you know it's something that we're passionate about as surfers you know look at Kai Lanney or Ian Wall sure these guys that I work with surfing
[00:09:49] they're very into foiling and so there's a good crossover so we decided just to bring the foiling products underneath the kt surfing umbrella and so yeah it's been fun you know and there's
[00:10:05] there's a lot energy going into the foiling now and you know especially now that we brought on cane you know working on foils it's exciting oh yeah no there's a lot of a lot of new stuff can we
[00:10:19] can we look a little bit about how your boards have changed from v1 to v2 to kind of the drift or even because I ride I read the 72 driftor and I love it um and but it's changed a
[00:10:33] little bit it'd be kind of cool to learn a bit more about that sure I think in general and these from my perspective in the industry and where I see things going I've been you know it's all really
[00:10:45] come from this downwind trend of longer narrower boards so I think in general boards are going to get a little longer and a little narrower and you know we're gonna get the stability and the glide
[00:10:56] from the length and not the width I think width actually gets in your way to certain degree it's a balance I'm not saying the driftor is going to get six inches longer for the you know the same
[00:11:08] size you know I'm saying it's going to get a couple inches longer okay the the the the bottoms are going to change a bit um more simple in certain ways but a little more complicated in
[00:11:19] other ways um so I just it's kind of the general tendency I see from what the guys are needing from this whole downwind uh downwind froth that everybody's on um there's a really good
[00:11:33] thing for Bob boards that are a little longer and that glide you know there's a there's a stability that comes from getting going faster than actually from width so okay that's what I find
[00:11:45] really than me but that's kind of where we're at no you guys go to get team behind you to be able to test that awesome conditions there so yeah especially for downwinding like um how was how was
[00:11:56] your first downwinding session out in Maui brutal yeah I don't think it's hard or six sessions are brutal and it's still brutal okay you know it's like I'm still like yesterday I got up within like three
[00:12:10] minutes at ho keep on I made it all the way to sugarcoat and one round and that was the first time so it's good okay you know so I'm getting it but I'm probably 20, 28 plus sessions in so so that means
[00:12:25] yeah people take their time then yeah my goal is to get the boards easier to use and also I've really been starting to think about trying to create a foil that that is conducive to learning as well
[00:12:38] because I think well there's there's work to be done on the foils to make this aspect of the sport easier I was surprised how snappy it turned even though it was a longer board like I was surprised
[00:12:49] by that when I was on it that's what I noticed right away yeah that's from the length you know that length gives you leverage in a way that a foil likes to be turned I don't think a foil likes
[00:13:00] to be turned with wit because it takes time for it to recover so if you have a really wide board yeah you have leverage on the foil but you start turning it and then you're like oh shoots I'm kind
[00:13:10] of in this turn now I gotta go the other way so it's delayed whereas if it's narrow you have leverage from the length which is an up and down leverage as well as a rotational so it's easier to bring it back
[00:13:25] so really you're getting a lot of control from the the back and forth of being on the board like surfstants and then you're just rolling a little bit to get the thing to turn so it's much easier
[00:13:37] to keep yourself one going forward and then you know having these rolly turns and the fact of the board longer you end up standing I take a little narrower and more in in the middle of the
[00:13:49] board and so it's not like you have you know six feet of nose in front of you you have the same nose you would on a smaller board but just you're just further up on the board in general
[00:14:02] yeah I defined that and yeah those one thing I picked up on it yeah it was it was narrow and it was a bit tippy but I was winging so it's a little bit easier but I'm looking for to
[00:14:12] trying with the paddle and see how that how that goes and but hey let's take a little bit of a step back what was your first foil experience like and what did that make you feel and you know I can't
[00:14:23] throw to this yeah you know I went the first time with Kai again I think it was probably eight maybe ten years ago we went to the South Shore and it was more like I was just bringing them a new
[00:14:33] board to try and I saw I'm doing this I'm like man that's amazing but I wasn't like oh I really want to do this for some he's like oh you should try so I'm like okay now I paddling out and I kind of hit
[00:14:44] the bottom and whatever and I tried to get up and it's so foreign because you're not writing it like you're surfing you know you're not writing the surfing part of the way if you're writing
[00:14:55] more the top or the the shoulder of the way where the power is and so I was doing it wrong and dropping in like a normal normally surfing and then you're just it's just done you can't get
[00:15:06] up so it was pretty challenging and it didn't bite me right away but then as Kai was developing foils with my thin company and the hydrishful company you know I started you know getting some
[00:15:19] desire to try it and then you know since I was making him boards and I had access to foils they just kind of they keep it was a middle of winter and it was rainy and there was lots of messy swell
[00:15:30] and I went side of the harbour in Kahalui and I just basically learned how to prone foil and you know I took two weeks but I wet suit on everybody every day there's nobody around and I just did it and
[00:15:42] you know I started feeling the sensations of floating and flying and you know doing these turns and it was it got me hooked oh nice what how big of a foil did you learn on?
[00:15:53] they keep it was a 1250 you know yeah it was a 1250 at that time but a surf foil so kind of slow okay but the MFC foils are really nice and that they gave a really nice pushback
[00:16:06] front foot pushback has opposed to a lot of the other foils that were you know kind of like diving and you end to work more so I thought it was really good because it felt a little more like surfing
[00:16:15] than anything I felt okay let's just do a review back foot turning as opposed to back foot having to lift up you're actually pushing down on the front and kind of pivoting around the front
[00:16:29] so there's a cool aspect to that that kind of resonating with me okay to seal like the do you think it would give you a bit more freedom than surfing or was it just kind of
[00:16:42] a different kind of surfing for example well I think it's more of a freedom and junky waves and that's what so cool about it no it's a it has its place and it had its place it's like I
[00:16:53] would go summertime's were a great time to you know it's to surf foil I don't surf foil much during the winter because I'm either wind when surfing or I'm surfing you know even the down
[00:17:03] one we'll see how much I do this winter when the surf's really good and all that they'll be days but it's not like now where every day I'm like okay what's the wind doing what time I'm
[00:17:12] my going I'm cooking it up I have two new photos that are gonna be done this morning that I'm just gonna try yeah and then I'll have two more on Monday so it's just like you know
[00:17:22] now's like full on downwind R&D okay so you guys can be talking about those or is that more behind the scenes kind of stuff like sport behind scenes what I mean in general you know
[00:17:33] same thing a little longer you know like I'm working on different bottoms to see what's faster what's touching down and and sticking what's touching down and and gliding so it's just refinement it's not like there's nothing revolutionary coming there's a few little things that are
[00:17:51] that are different that are coming that I think are gonna be pretty cool um you know based on Kai's feedback based on Keynes feedback I'm a little bit at everybody's in there based on my
[00:18:02] feedback of three months of just struggling this is what makes it so is it the the narrowness of it that makes it difficult is it like what are you finding challenging I think that's a good
[00:18:17] question I mean yeah it's the narrowness because the narrowness is instability so it's it's approaching that gap between being able to get up onto the board and get going patdling once you're patdling there's a stability that comes in because you're moving forward so I'm trying to bridge
[00:18:35] that gap between standing up and having the thing relatively stable but the mini you start patdling a stability comes in and then what's important after that is how much the board glides and how much
[00:18:48] you can keep it gliding and then what's important after that is when you're hitting that wave in front of you that is gonna stop your momentum that you can have that glide through that as much as possible
[00:19:00] so that you're any energy you're putting in keeps you gliding and anything you hit you can still glide through and then that allows you to get some momentum and get a rhythm and then get out
[00:19:12] okay because in the waiting world I know for the director the 2023 director you had two or three con caves yeah on it yeah and then obviously the dragon flies more of a kind of like
[00:19:25] a boat kind of kind of a displacement displacement okay I'm you know I'm about while be working on I'm working on both styles right now just to see which way I want to go so I have
[00:19:36] a same dragon fly displacement hole you know just working on that and then I have something that's a little flatter and working on that and then you know that's basically what I'm testing the
[00:19:48] day is one of each and I've been doing that for the last two months so but now I'm kind of following the stage where I think that you know today I'm going to decide
[00:19:58] kind of which direction I'm going or maybe I go both we'll see okay so that'll be 4 2024 and 2025 kind of thing 25 yeah okay cool yes um how did you come up with that kind of triple or quad
[00:20:13] con cave for the 23 drifter I found that was not something that I saw in a lot of other boards but the touchdown was pretty cool you know what it came from Kai came to me like I don't know
[00:20:25] how six years ago and said hey check out these guys on the air chair you know on the air chair they're doing a little flips behind the boats on the foils oh yeah and you know they were
[00:20:34] looking at their bottoms and they were like a solid really solid double con cave you know and in surfing there's double con cave when surfing too but um that really is like okay well let's try
[00:20:45] this just obviously it's working for them and then I just started developing that you know at that time I think the needs are changing and a lot of the freestyle winging that's going on
[00:21:01] it's not conducive to have too many doubles and too deep and having something that's going to slide and slip a little bit more as opposed to catch and drive okay well in general my bottoms
[00:21:15] are going to get a little more simple in a certain way but more complicated as well in other ways so are complicated in other ways yeah yeah you've got a lot of it's coming from what cane
[00:21:28] cane knows and just can feel and is guiding me and then I'll take that and make something right it with him and then feel what he's saying and then go wow okay that is really cool or he brings
[00:21:40] me something that just looks hideous from my eye and then I try and take it and sexy it up and make it look a little more like I'd like it to look with all the best things that are you know that are
[00:21:52] in it okay so do you find you get a bit of time to take in feedback from the community that's buying boards from you other than at AWS I'd see what are they like about that yeah I do you know we
[00:22:07] get customers because we have a shop here and we have customers who come in and buy boards and order boards so I do get feedback from the community and you know right now I just made the Kai's parents
[00:22:19] you know I made Martin his dad 150 liter new drifter and I'm going to make his mom a 62 leader drifter and they're going to give me some feedback you know so it's like I try and
[00:22:29] to look opportunities with people we work with that have connections and you know they're family or whatever and just use our community to get feedback because it really is important
[00:22:43] yeah and I think that's what well that's for for me at least because I ride for Jesse and I ride for you guys just as a kind of like an amateur rider kind of thing and just great for that
[00:22:52] aspect of things it's it's pretty cool to have that passion driven behind it because that's why I love about it and that's why it's exciting to meet the people that make the gear because then
[00:23:04] I can get that full circle connection with it which means a lot to a lot of us here are so passionate about the sport so I'm going to head a lot of buddies back in Ottawa just asking me about KTX I was
[00:23:15] doing some demos and I was like what is it who is it where is it made like is the guy that's making the boards like what's he like and all these questions so it's it's pretty awesome to be
[00:23:26] able to put those kind of pieces together for a lot of people who A have never had the opportunity to go to Maui in in my ever but to meet you guys and to know that you have you have a lifetime
[00:23:37] of passion for the water is it's super cool to be able to get out there yeah and I think that that really reflects in our product more and more as we're able to like kind of hone in and what's
[00:23:48] really working for us and the direction we want to go and you know that's why I got into the downwind thing because I'm like I gotta get this and just see you know what this is about and
[00:23:59] right now it's the thing I'm probably the most excited about there's nothing like getting up and riding for 25 to 30 minutes it's like a 30 minute wave ride and it's a great workout
[00:24:15] and you have time to just float around and think about things or just be focused or it's awesome. Now you go you do team rides out there you kind of just do you go up by yourself that far out
[00:24:29] and then I mean I do though yeah not really we're like three or four and sometimes you know I'm at the point now where I can like you know with the guys that are a little better if we get
[00:24:39] up at the same time then we can crisscross the whole way and hooting holler and have a great time you know but if there's some reason when I can't get up and they take off it's okay
[00:24:47] I really enjoy just being on my own and you know it's like basically you have an endless ocean of swell and energy that you can tap into and it's just you and the ocean and you just up there
[00:24:58] it's like a magic carpet it's like flying on a magic carpet it really is yeah yeah it's no that is that looks phenomenal did you get some time to try that out in hood river? I did I went the
[00:25:09] first day we went I went and I struggled a little bit but it helped me you know understand what was going on with my board once I was up I was fine getting up I struggled a little bit even though
[00:25:23] it is easier and you have way more opportunity there than you do here so now I was thinking about yesterday after my run and I think if I were to go back now I would have no problem it would be
[00:25:34] easy but that's that's just learning yeah enough fair enough so how big is your team then at KT that you're working with? Well here in the factory we're nine between office and staff up front
[00:25:49] and the guys that build the boards um that doesn't include cane and the team riders or anything like that but we can also go out when surfing and quadruing surfing and quadruc stop
[00:26:03] so it's more than just KT yeah you guys do a lot then and everything's made so you build everything in Maui and then where are the production boards and stuff get made?
[00:26:14] Yeah all the prototyping and all the all the masters and all the files we do here in Maui and then we like I'm going to Thailand in about three weeks and I'll go over there I'll send
[00:26:26] them I think I'm gonna send them about 60 different files and they'll cut all those boards for us and then I'll go there and I'll all shape them all and at the same time that's all
[00:26:35] that's all surfing and uh, foiling and then at the same time we'll go check out some new wind surfing stuff that we just did and so you know we'll be there about 10 days and you know
[00:26:45] with my business partner and just put everything in place for next year's opening you know production stock stuff oh nice yeah do you ever think maybe looking back a little bit
[00:26:57] that you would ever build a name and be a part of because I guess you guys it was such a big history there did you ever think that your life would take this turn and bring you here?
[00:27:08] I mean you know when you start the business you always hope but then you're in and you're like madness is a lot more difficult than you think and you know this vision of like oh I'm just
[00:27:18] gonna make some you know a board is in put them in production and sell it launch it's a lot more complicated than that and it's for us it's been about the relationships that we've made
[00:27:28] and the connections we've made along the way and just finding the right people to work with and you know having opportunities to work with say Kylenny came about we didn't look for that
[00:27:39] it just sort of happened you know and same in the surfing you know I worked with you my Kalani default surfing and he you know he made the WSL tour one year on our boards like a couple
[00:27:50] years ago and you know other connections you know all of just these connections it people that come along at the right time to kind of bring you to the next step and and help bridge the gap
[00:28:03] to the next product or whatever it might be so you know whether it's a team guy whether it's someone that joins the offices here just everything so more and more it's it's about that the connections
[00:28:17] and the relationships that you have with people and growing the business that way okay growing them more yeah organically then one hundred push yeah okay it's times you have a bit of push but
[00:28:29] in general we've never been in a position where we just had so much budget that we could just you know push it's a much more organic growth and you know making the right choices not trying
[00:28:41] not to overproduce and just you know being aware what we're doing and what is doing of the market and how we you know how we work with the market so I guess that's what you were
[00:28:52] saying you're going for a little bit of a longer cycle then to allow people to kind of make that connection with their gear in a way instead of just being by hungry yes one hundred percent
[00:29:03] nice and I think that the energy that we put into the product you know reflects that it can be a two-year cycle or a three-year cycle you know so I think it's important to design a product
[00:29:17] that's going to be you know a two to three-year cycle because you know maybe the top guys can use those changes that you're doing every year whatever but I think in general that's something
[00:29:30] that is just for the lead at any you know it's a lot of it's available to anybody because we do custom stuff so if somebody wants exactly what chives writing at this moment they can get it
[00:29:43] so that's why I feel like also it's we have a good balance of both because we do such so much R&D so many prototypes and just trying to make it better in this and that sometimes they are
[00:29:54] sometimes they are and and I think if we came up with something that was so revolutionary that it that we needed to have it out there then we would do it but in general I don't I've never really
[00:30:05] seen something like that happen that it needed to be changed right away you know we have to be conscious about stock and shop stock and you know it's important that the whole circle
[00:30:19] works well together and that no one's getting screwed in the end for having them a bunch of stock or because you're changing so you know it's again relationships and it's important to communicate with we are working with and and have them understand and us understand their needs
[00:30:34] and just really work with the shops and keep a clean market if we can okay yeah because I've definitely seen a lot more people while out of the outest of these like it and my eastern
[00:30:48] Canada I guess even on Vancouver Island too we're seeing these KT wings pop up everywhere so it's kind of cool to see that and I'm talking to Jason I think tomorrow so I'll be neat to go into all
[00:30:59] that stuff with them but with this stuff yeah so like you're even going back to the drift or because that's what I'm writing yeah your version one track pad like the deck pad was more aggressive
[00:31:13] and then this one was a bit different is there reason you guys went with the different kind of deck pads this time around compared to the last one yeah I mean that's just customer feedback shop
[00:31:23] feedback you know all people are on their knees learning and it was aggressive on the knees and so we tried to tone it down a bit so you know we do take any feedback from anybody we take it
[00:31:36] out seriously I know that's the right word but we take it in and you know way it out see you know what's real I was real value or not and just kind of like a way it out see if it's something that
[00:31:48] we need to do and you know the obviously that was something we needed to do okay all right fair enough yeah how was that how is working with Kai and a lot of those guys like obviously they're the
[00:32:00] ones pushing the boundaries yeah 100% I mean I think for Kai you know what's interesting for him is all the different crafts that we do here and also the technology that we've brought into the
[00:32:13] industry from when surfing you know it is to surfing and to foiling with all the vacuum carbon lamination and all this stuff so I think he saw the value of working with some like a
[00:32:25] one stop shop for him you know surfboards tensor or it stand up boards guns toeboards foil boards he can get it all sales you know everything so and it's in Maui you know because
[00:32:39] I'm sure he could go ride for a company and you know make quite a bit of money but he's he saw the value of working with us and what he has access to and so I think it's a win-win for him
[00:32:54] it's a win for us because he gets to bring all his knowledge and his ideas and his creativity and help guide the sport you know and help bring new ideas and in foiling he was huge in the
[00:33:07] beginning and bit stages and even now obviously he gives his feedback you know directions a lot's coming from king too now and all and I and our own writing but you know I feet
[00:33:19] high prototypes all the time and then certain times of the year is more about foiling other times of the year it's more about guns you know now he's coming to me ordering four guns
[00:33:30] you know toeboards you know surfboard so different times of the year are different times when we focus on different product within so it's not all year round that he's giving me foiling
[00:33:41] feet back unless he goes out and tries something and likes it and then says oh we should try this so well it's an amazing collaboration okay so how's cane that that's a new addition yeah
[00:33:56] new addition he needs been great um a different really foil centered energy he's but he's really knowledgeable about many different things in design and engineering and so and he's just really
[00:34:12] deep in it and um it's been fun to sort of get to know him because I knew what he was and and I would see him here and there and again that's one of those things it just sort of happened
[00:34:24] but wasn't something like we didn't go out looking after him for him you know but we were just kind of going along and then you know one of my business the partners friends his guy had mentioned maybe
[00:34:35] trying to work with him a couple years ago but it just wasn't right because we weren't feeling and just didn't you know on whatever it's let it go and then you know six months ago or five months ago I work with his brother in La Alia the bow
[00:34:52] and so I got a chance you know I'm connected with him all and he's kind of giving me the you know the load on about what he's up to and just here and there talking and
[00:35:02] and then I think I was just driving to the beach one day said hey I'm gonna reach out to Cain and see where he's at you know maybe make him a board or something and you know just got
[00:35:09] it started talking and then you know it went a little more serious and he had just gotten out of something that he was in and was available and we saw the value of just bringing him in for his
[00:35:22] knowledge and um his passion you know and he's an amazing writer and you know we are getting feedback from people that he was you know helping like tune their foils and you know we got some feedback
[00:35:36] from one guy and he was like you guys have to work with Cain you know this is such it and so I you know I respect this person and so and he was buying like at the key soldus 15 dragon
[00:35:49] flies on the east coast okay my stomach of ours and he was just telling friends and all that so and yeah you know it just worked out and we met and then we all you know approved and we're
[00:35:59] able to work it out to where he could you know join the team and it's not it's not the years right now that it's an easy industry you know it's a challenging time in the foiling and
[00:36:12] surfboard and water sports industry in general a lot of in which regard the a lot of overproduction from companies and a lot of dumping of products on the market and so you know it's challenging we're trying to keep a steady road and not again overproducer
[00:36:32] dumps stuff on the market and I'm trying to navigate this in a way that keeps the market healthy so we're in for you know challenging year okay so but I guess with the model that you have currently
[00:36:45] of building relationships growing at organically passion based yeah I feel that that's a good approach because that's a long and steady approach it's not the only stop a million bucks in the marketing
[00:36:58] and then get all these athletes to push stuff and you get all excited and then oh coming in 2026 is like you want to click I think that's you know you know most companies are you know whether
[00:37:12] who their own buyer whatever they're not a trust fund but a hedge fund or whatever and you know it's there they have bottle lines and so that's that's the and there's that's wrong with that
[00:37:21] there's that's one way of business that's not our way we're not there now she need to do that and we're here for the long haul and every day and more and more I am enjoying this more and more
[00:37:32] so I'm like okay this is this is where we're at and this is fun oh that's cool hey thanks for sharing that yeah what was your first wing foil session like could we talk about that?
[00:37:43] good question I think it was in the harbor was it in the harbor no it was at Kanaha we don't I don't think anybody was really going in the harbor at that time yet they hadn't really figured it out
[00:37:55] and so it was at Kanaha and it was bumpy you know I had learned to win surf foil first so I had a general idea and I was prone foiling our ready so I had a general idea of
[00:38:09] especially from the win surf foiling of like you know getting yourself up with the wind and the sail we win surfing you have something to hang on to that's connected to the board so it's a little more
[00:38:20] connected little easier but I did that first it kind of a couple times and then you know I think I got on a like a one 15 wing driftor and just paid my dues and fell a lot and then you know
[00:38:34] finally you get that balance and and then you start going and that's really quick actually it's quick to learn okay nice downwinding it's quick to learn once you get past the getting up
[00:38:46] and balance stage once you're getting up and flying your your level goes up quick but it's really steady and low for for a while that first two weeks or whatever you know that first 15 to 20 times
[00:39:03] are challenging yeah because how big a swell are you going out in like whole keeper there is it you know some days there's you know it's two feet some days of three feet but actually the
[00:39:14] gorge and there's other places are actually easier to learn and better for me those other days and it's very good often I'm not saying it's just that it's a more difficult swell to read and stay up on
[00:39:27] whereas in a hood river well it's really close together and steep so you'll have a swell that comes through and you'll have four chances in like 20 seconds to get up because there's one then the
[00:39:40] next one then the next one and then you know another minute later you'll have another opportunity so it's easy but it's also you're rocking a little bit more so the stability comes into to play
[00:39:53] so if you have really good stability you're fine but if you're still working on your standing on the board and getting forward motion it's challenging because you're getting bucked around a lot
[00:40:01] but then once you're up it's really easy to go from swell the swell the swell the swell because there's always something for you to turn on and get energy whereas it's a little further apart it'll
[00:40:13] flatten out a little bit you'll have these big pumps that you kind of got to go over but as you learn you get good and it's relatively easy as well okay all right and then obviously
[00:40:27] there's quite a bit exercise involved too I assume right yeah but as you I think the most exercise is when you're starting or falling a lot with paddling like crazy you know as you get better you
[00:40:40] get that exercise right up the bat and then you're up and sure you're pumping and you're turning but you're also there's times when you can stand there for 20 seconds and just relax
[00:40:53] okay and you just up there and it's just super crazy so yeah that'd be magic yeah and the better you get the better you get it reading swell and so you're always generating energy and
[00:41:05] turning and you're not having to work to get to the next swell you're just you're just flying from swell the swell and so it's still a good workout but it's nothing like in the beginning
[00:41:17] okay I guess there's yeah this it's an art form onto itself it is but you know and I and I think that a lot of times women get it a little bit quicker than men because we just try and power through it
[00:41:28] whereas women I think are a little bit more nimble and can be a little softer in their touches and you know sometimes I think that's a better way like the other day I did two runs and the
[00:41:39] second run I did better because I was more tired and I wasn't trying to overpower anything get up or you know whatever and I had to really focus and think about my technique it's really technique
[00:41:50] that gets you up balance and then the technique well because yeah you start neat knee starting ice-sume right and then you gotta bring one leg and go up from there or how do you
[00:41:59] do it but I mean basically it's like yeah you get up on your knees and then you're you know you get up on your feet and then you just gotta get moving quicker than not because the movement
[00:42:10] forward gives you the stability and you know the paddle okay using the paddle keep yourself up then so that's why you're playing with different different shapes on the bottom to see what that's gonna impact stability how is it gonna impact speed of glide and then obviously
[00:42:25] when you're gonna hit something in front of you yeah okay and I'm sure that's all I mean I think there's only so far you can go I mean you know there's it's always gonna be a bit tipy
[00:42:38] you know there's always gonna be that aspect to it because it's long and narrow there's not much you can do about it I'm gonna get it as his vision as I can to make the process easier and more enjoyable
[00:42:51] and you know right now because we get I get two or three emails a day for boards in questions and you know which is normal because this is new and you know I think I'm working on
[00:43:02] something where we can set up a kind of like I don't know if it's a guideline or just you know our perspective of you know good learning process you know kind of what size board to start with
[00:43:13] maybe do this three times you know put this foil on at least size wise and then from there jump to a smaller board like when I jumped from a 130 liter to a 100 liter I got up right away
[00:43:26] and was flying for like five minutes. So just the fact that I went you know the big board's so big yes it's giving you stability you know it's getting you the stroke down it's getting
[00:43:38] some forward motion you can fly for maybe 10 15 20 seconds but again the wider bigger board is gonna set the foil more and be harder to recover so once you start turning you're gonna want
[00:43:51] to keep going you're kind of like so it's more delayed everything so once I got up on the smaller board I was able to like oh wow the foil is really supporting me and I can get these quicker turns
[00:44:01] go from get enough time to think about going from swell to swell um then yeah I go down and it's it's more of a struggle once you're on the water just gets you better at standing on
[00:44:13] something that's unstable and learning your stroke and getting the technique down really okay all right so for and how much do you weigh if you don't want I'm 165 165 okay so you started on a 130
[00:44:26] did that for a bit then you hop down to the 100 yeah I think ultimately 105 you know 110 100 right in there is good depending on you know to what you want to do and in general you know
[00:44:41] I'm gonna be this year I'm gonna have longer like like the smallest dragon fly is gonna be 74 I might have another model that's a little shorter but that'll be the smallest dragon fly in length
[00:44:55] and you know the 105 leader that's 710 this year is gonna be 80 so I'm going a little longer okay we'll have them out of that's a little shorter a little wider not a lot and a different modem that's the idea and then I have a really specific
[00:45:12] winging light windboard as well that we're developing with cane which we had and we had that and didn't get the try it yeah it's got all the aspects of the dragon fly
[00:45:28] on in a little bit more of a shorter compact package but the same sort of forward glide it actually was really stable once you move it forward so that's kind of where we're going you still be able to use the dragon flies for downwind I mean for
[00:45:43] winging but we'll have something a little bit you know a little bit different similar concept of shorter package hmm okay cool and can we talk about the ginsu for a bit kind of curious about
[00:45:54] that's that step yeah that was gonna be the next board I was gonna get yeah the board's super fun I think people are a little bit scared of it because it's you know it's a bit of an extreme cut but the
[00:46:04] concept works and it works well I think you have to get used to riding it and getting up with a different sort of balance and so if you're willing to put a little bit of time in an energy in
[00:46:16] I think the benefits once you're in the air you know the sensitivity to the foil the release from the water all those things are amazing not only that the thing is bomber I mean it's a
[00:46:28] little heavy but it's bomber it's built like our wind surfing construction so it's just it's one of the strongest boards we make so you know that's an amazing concept and it's a really really fun
[00:46:41] board obviously now I'm gonna you know develop it it's been two years so it's time to develop that and you know take the feedback we're getting from people and work on you know maybe making
[00:46:52] it a little bit more balanced for in the water because I was one of the things that people saying what's hard to get used to you know still have the same character of the release from the
[00:47:03] water and you know those really nice things that the Gensu is giving us and you're also going to be a little closer to your foil so it's gonna give you sensitivity and just maybe simplifying it a
[00:47:14] little bit more making it a little more accessible but getting keeping all the best traits that's the goal okay what I mean the first is awesome and you know that's what Kai uses that's what the end
[00:47:24] uses that's what OOTIS uses, Kane has won so you know they're they're all using it because it's a viable board you know but at like anything we're gonna evolve it and it is and when we did patent
[00:47:39] so that's pretty cool and we patented the cut okay so that's something let's um you know we work hard on to get that and you know sure almost a year keeping it kind of under apps and just
[00:47:53] trying to make that all happen yeah we talked a little bit to Richard there the CEO of Ocean rodeo about patents and he said it's it's it can be challenging it's not a busy route no yeah it's not
[00:48:05] zero but we're able to get it I mean we have the we have the patent so yeah okay I mean more than anything that gets just like a statement of like you know this is something that we've developed we would hope
[00:48:17] that other brands would have the respect not to go down that road you know we're seeing it already little bit um just out of respect for the fact that we went for the patent and the energy of
[00:48:30] developing something like this because we know what it is I don't go out there copying anything sure you look at things and things are interesting but for me to try and copy something anyway doesn't
[00:48:41] make sense because the energy that this person put into making this product it's their energy their idea they know what kind of reality have they know where they put the the rocker point this that
[00:48:52] and for me to try and copy something it doesn't work you know the way the reason a board feels the way it does is because of the people that are involved in making it the energy that they put
[00:49:03] in you know what I know where I've been and the evolution of the shape that's what's going to make a board feel like it's not me trying to copy something that's gonna make it feel like that you know
[00:49:15] for me that's what's important is just the the the people putting the energy into that shape and design and then you know knowing the history of it and bringing it to market that's what shapes about that's gonna be a more chronic thing that's you know that's developed thought
[00:49:34] out and had a lot of good energy put into it. That's someone's done and putting it on your own I think is the the most lazy lazy way to go about things what's the pleasure of that there's no
[00:49:52] pleasure in that you didn't just you didn't come up with it you didn't develop it you have no idea what it's doing other than what you think it's doing and what you're being told it's doing
[00:50:02] by the others anyway. Yeah, now I like that because for a lot of people who are buying gear like this sport on the consumer and is a huge passion for them they only have a couple hours
[00:50:14] a week they're choosing to do this and then they're looking to buy gear and to have that full circle I think is what makes it like if you look back 15 20 years and you're like I was writing these boards
[00:50:26] and this is who they were like coming back to that idea we talked about before. I feel that super that's super important because that's something that you can hand down to your kids and something
[00:50:36] you can pass down and just that peer energy of what you're doing much more so now how the heck did you get it so that even just the tail wouldn't snap off because you guys said
[00:50:48] you got to work quite a bit at just structural yeah well again that's just you know making prototypes here and you know definitely the smaller sizes are more challenging because it's
[00:51:00] okay and it is a it is a point that's all the energy's going right to that the bigger sizes it's not really an issue but again that's why the construction went the way it did
[00:51:11] and that hence the weight because you've really got to make it bomber but I mean once you're up in the air and all that you might get on the rack and feel this is kind of heavy but at the
[00:51:20] same time it's bomber and once you're in there you really don't feel it in the sensitivity that you get being closer to your foil is is amazing it really isn't and I really found that the
[00:51:32] one the construction so bomber that it it's actually made the board really stiff and so that really translates into quick movement forward you know quick release and then you have the insu cut that actually detaches from the water a couple seconds sooner as long as you've got the
[00:51:49] technique and you know you're learning that and and that's what I found is just this really smooth like steady quick release you know but then you know we're working on that and you know evolving
[00:52:01] it and you know we want to make it lighter and find ways to build it that aren't as as weight producing and also the cost you know it's it's relatively expensive board
[00:52:14] and so I know I think people might be a little concerned with those different aspects of that board and you know might be a little stand-offish but it's an amazing board and worth every time
[00:52:26] while with these new materials in the wing world coming out like the wings are starting to get a lot more expensive two three grand so now you're in an offset with a board that the construction is
[00:52:38] there it's solid you know it's gonna last yeah I think it's gonna kind of catch up to itself I think so too you know people need to be understanding um again like I says probably gonna be a
[00:52:48] difficult year because there's so much product available at you know cheap prices but um you know we're here for the long road and we're making choices that are um I think better for the market at
[00:53:00] least from our perspective okay and for the the health of the market the health of the shops the health of the consumer um you know we really look at how when we buy product of any sort
[00:53:15] and how it affects us and when we have problems how it's dealt with and all that really trying to bring that into the way we do things you know if anybody has a problem with anything
[00:53:24] we really try and take care of that or you know whatever it might be so um and we're just we're always tuning up we're not perfect and I'm making better day you know it's it's cool but it's a fun process
[00:53:38] and I feel fortunate to be able to do this I feel fortunate to go have two new prototypes that are gonna be sanded right now and my guys are getting ready for me I'll put my foil on and at 1130
[00:53:48] I'll go to do two runs on two new boards you know it's a feel very fortunate to have that and to have the team that I work with and the partners that I have and the team riders and it's
[00:54:01] yeah feel very fortunate and yeah it could be that or you're in an office in the middle of New York City you haven't seen green space in in a year like it could be drastically different
[00:54:12] wouldn't it could be I guess what's so cool about foiling too in general is it's so accessible you know especially we need not to keep you can do it in light winds and men I mean we made a video
[00:54:22] like Levi Cyber our marketing you know Instagram video guy he made a video with Kai and Ridge and Keene and the harver on the dragonfly and that just made me want to go out and fly
[00:54:33] and I mean those guys are on five ohs and there's like you know eight nuts a wind and they're flying and it looks cool and so you know to be able to share that and have people access that
[00:54:46] and be able to see things it's amazing it's like a full circle and how much time do you get in the water these days oh I get tons yeah also yeah I mean you know like the last four days I've gone
[00:55:01] for downwind runs and that's you know a couple you know an hour and a half and then you know on the next like probably in the next three to four weeks the surface is going to start coming
[00:55:10] so anytime there's good waves to surf I go surf for a couple hours if it's more windsurfing then I'll wind surf so yeah it's really important for me to be in the water for the brands
[00:55:24] and for R&D and for understanding for you know connecting with the team you know whatever it might so again I feel pretty fortunate I work a lot I work all the time I'm working at home at night
[00:55:36] in the morning and you know so it's just kind of it's a lifestyle it's a working playing lifestyle okay often times like coming on Sunday morning when the shops close and I do
[00:55:47] a lot of designing because there's no one around so nice and quiet yeah it's nice to have that time to to just focus and put all this papers on where my desk or whatever yeah I might do or shape
[00:56:01] when we're getting a shaping room and not be bothered and okay yeah is there any cool new stuff coming in construction like how boards are being made is it how do you guys use X I know we talk to
[00:56:16] apple tree and they're doing kind of an infusion method is are there any cool things come in or how do you guys do I mean that's super cool what they're doing you know I like what they're doing
[00:56:26] we could do infusion here if I've considered it it's really labor intensive and we have a really good you know our vacuum lamin and the way we do things and my guys are really good so for the moment
[00:56:38] we're not going to shift but you know I'm always looking at materials I'm always now looking at trying to incorporate some a little bit more green materials we're doing some stuff with flags
[00:56:52] some stuff with some other different materials and trying to see if we can work with those things and potentially integrated into our our stock stuff that we do out of Thailand and really just
[00:57:06] kind of bridge the gap between what we're doing in our factory with in Thailand and what we're doing here and make it much closer and it's pretty much the same thing so there are always little parameters
[00:57:19] but um but as far as that goes right now there's nothing that I see that's just revolutionary well what's kind of nice is that because of the position we're in and you know the connections
[00:57:35] we have with Kai and you know the connections that he might have with different companies were being a approached or you know being being one of the players in the industry we do get approached
[00:57:48] by different things here and there and and I feel like if something's going to come up it's probably going to come along with somebody interested in maybe bringing something to us that's you
[00:57:58] know revolutionary and we could collaborate and you know well I'm totally open to that kind of stuff because sometimes we are in our little zone and you are trying to get boards done and we have a
[00:58:10] process and it works well and we're happy so to shift to something else take some energy and some thought but that's kind of what I'm allowing myself a little more time to do now is just
[00:58:23] focus on maybe sourcing different materials or coming up with the different process or trying to make the connection with our our factory in Thailand a little closer from you know just sending them a
[00:58:36] file or so I might not be doing as much shaping but I'm working on different aspects that get me excited okay yeah so guys natural progression I guess you could say yeah I'd say that you know and
[00:58:50] and I think now in the past it's been more difficult because you know things were were super tight and they still tight but we have a little bit more room debris to try stuff to try some material
[00:59:03] close to make a board and realize okay the things falling apart really quick you know it happened still and my last board was like that so okay living you learn but the only way we're gonna figure it out is
[00:59:14] trying yeah I guess fair enough that makes sense and then being open to you have to see what comes and what gets brought to you I guess is what you were saying yeah I mean the apple tree guys they do
[00:59:26] great work I like what they do and they they're doing it well they look like they have an organized clean factory and I have a lot of respect for that because I know what it takes and it develops
[00:59:36] something on their own like that and you know they're way of doing that it's amazing and you know they're they're core phones seem like they're really cool they don't bring in water and you know
[00:59:46] but they've been able to develop that relationship with the phone company phone company because they're so they're at a level where they can you know put some budget into it and you know I feel like
[00:59:57] maybe we're just starting to reach that with with different things whether it's going to be phone or you know at some ideas you know not like it's a revolutionary but just ideas to make the
[01:00:08] product better and longer lasting you know maybe not quite as harmful to the environment whatever you know all these little things I think are becoming more and more important to us too
[01:00:21] to the planet but also to us yeah that's fair that's cool oh yeah all our packaging is paper you know it's all these little things that we're putting in place you know we're going to work with
[01:00:36] a company it's called the New Earth Project and they do like cardboard packaging for surfing and for shipping outboards and then you know they work with Pizel and a lot of these companies and
[01:00:47] so we're getting a lot of interest from the surfing industry too for being you know support there so just over the years about being here being present working with with different you know with
[01:00:58] Kai and you know I made some boards for John John and his brother Nathan Florence and oh no way Darwin reports not nothing surfing on see yeah so I mean downboards for them they just got them
[01:01:10] and they're super psyched and you know it's a slowly but surely you you create this network of connections and it's kind of fun to sit back and like kind of watch it and be open to for
[01:01:20] it to come into play yeah I guess yeah to be where you're right now and to put in all the hard work and time um like I guess hopefully you've got to get a few seconds to look back a little bit yeah
[01:01:32] everything cool yeah you do you yeah for sure I think it's important to have a little perspective about where you came from and the work and give yourself a little pat on the back because it's hard
[01:01:45] in a good way you know it's challenging it's hard but it's like but now I feel like right now is one of the most creative times that we've ever had in our company by far people from the
[01:01:58] wind surfing the surfing the foiling the stand up on the downwind everything it's just like we're on we're just on this super creative high energy every day path and I've never felt this kind
[01:02:14] of energy around what we're doing yet so it's really cool really yeah it's intense in a good way but every day I come in and we're chatting just brainstorming this this and it's not just foiling
[01:02:26] it's you know it's the surfing you know where we're putting the fins in this and it's just it's this synergy within our team of everybody sort of in the same space and kind of feeling the whole
[01:02:38] energy moving forward and the creativity from the you know the marketing to everything so I think that's really going to come through in our product this next year well these next year but
[01:02:53] this next cycle from the wind surfing to the foiling the surfing to all of it it's it's going to come through oh awesome yeah I'm sure a lot of people will be pretty stoked to hear that and
[01:03:05] stoked to ride that gear and and bring that along because it's an extension of your body like it's one of these boards like yeah yeah yeah protect them they're in a bag you don't want anybody
[01:03:16] touching them all this stuff so it's it's nice well hey is there anything else you wanted to touch on personally or even about about KT is a whole that you feel people should know or why they would
[01:03:30] maybe want to know for him about KT is just like you know that that we are very accessible and available if anybody needs anything you know a little advice a little bit of this we're really
[01:03:41] really open to that and you want something custom we're happy to do that you know we have our stock stuff that's just amazing so you know it's just we're a broader we're from wind surfing to surfing
[01:03:52] to to stand up to big wave to toe and you know we have all this that we work within around so that you know that people that want to be a part of it or access it and we're here so that's
[01:04:06] pretty much the one yeah yeah that's a pretty good message though yeah that's a pretty good message and so how have you what's your favorite kind of surf are you is it yeah what's your favorite
[01:04:21] my favorite kind of surf would have to be I go to Micronesia every year I have a friend who started like a resort down there and it I spend usually a month on there if I can and there's barely
[01:04:35] anybody there and my favorite surf is probably four to six feet you know relatively hollow getting barrel doing some nice turns I actually look forward to bringing down a downwind board there because
[01:04:47] there's gonna be some opportunity to do some really good downwinders oh cool yeah and you know that that's a me's mine my happy place okay I can go fishing can go surfing kind of detached you know
[01:05:02] I love to surf here and I surf every day but I can definitely after doing this downwind thing I can see myself getting a little more picky about when I surf here and you know maybe doing
[01:05:14] some more downwinding stuff because I like to be on my own I like to be surfing on my own you know and then downwinding kind of affords you that so fair now the surf here is getting more crowded and
[01:05:28] it's a different kind of attitude and it doesn't always bring the best out of me and that's not what I want I want to have a good time and enjoy and be the best person I can in the water and it
[01:05:39] doesn't sometimes do that so I'd like to detach from that a little bit and just focus on the things that bring the best out of me and that I enjoy so fair enough yeah and it's going to make
[01:05:50] heck of a little learning yeah surfing good waves with my friends and just enjoying the whole the whole experience that's to me is enjoyable oh nice yeah and I guess that learning aspect of something brand new especially relating that to your your couple your couple boards that you're
[01:06:11] going to try this afternoon I think that's probably a pretty good question something new that I'm learning but it's connected to my surfing and wave rally because you're still riding swallowing you're still turning and you're still using the same techniques to do your turn and this allows
[01:06:29] you want to get your legs stronger for surfing which I'm really excited about too easy a chance to work on your technique because you're up for 30 minutes and you can stand there and go oh
[01:06:40] I'm going to turn my foot like this oh I'm going to bend my knee here I'm going to bend my knees more and then oh I'm going to open up my arm and do a turn here and go back side so just
[01:06:50] allows you to really think about things in with more time as opposed to surfing where you get up I got to go and then you forget it all yeah you know that that that got bridging into surfing
[01:07:03] and my wind surf way riding for me is that's what makes it even more special because it does tie in all these other things so and it's new and it's hard but I'm starting to growl there to get
[01:07:17] it so it's pretty cool nice well yeah we're looking forward seeing what what those prototypes turn out to be like and I'm excited for that well hey Keith I just want to say thanks for taking
[01:07:29] the time chat with me today and I got a busy day ahead of you so it's super appreciated yeah my pleasure thanks for having me on absolutely all right everybody thanks for joining if you have any questions
[01:07:42] how could what's the best way for them to reach out to you right when we reach out through the website we get all those questions and you know requests and all that's usually the best way
[01:07:52] yeah through kt surfing dot com or goia wind surfing or quattro wind surfing any of those ones kt foiling as well you can follow us on instagram get us hold through kt surfing on instagram or
[01:08:05] kt foiling on instagram's a great place as well so yeah we're happy to help you with anything oh awesome I know we didn't talk too much about quattro but I guess right now we're in downwind mode and
[01:08:17] yeah and let's doke to see where that gets us can have a nice so fun thanks guys all right thanks everybody