[00:00:00] Welcome to The Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing-foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Hey Jason, thanks for joining me, man. Happy to be here, he out of the thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. Absolutely.
[00:00:23] Okay, stoked to hear about your trip that you just had in the coast. Yeah, it was epic. It was like the forecast you look for to head out there and even, you know, it's a
[00:00:35] fickle, fickle stretch of coastline and you never quite sure what you're going to get. And it's always a fantastic adventure and I'm always happy I went but this time we absolutely scored for conditions so that was a blast. Awesome.
[00:00:49] And we're about to live in where bets did you go? So basing here in Newt River, in the gorge, this is my summer fall residence and then winter spring I spend on Maui or have for the last few years anyways and plan to do so again this year.
[00:01:08] So the coast mission for me is usually you know, from Hood River it's an hour to Portland and then another hour plus to the nearest spot on the coast but for wind surf or wind sports or wing or anything like this.
[00:01:22] I've found you started central coast which would be Newport which is not necessarily always the best place but it'll be sort of the dividing line between where the wind starts and stops and then from there you can kind of target where you want to go.
[00:01:39] Of course, if I can go further north it's less driving and the conditions of north are are second to none but it's you know, it's sometimes it's worth it to head down south and that's what the forecast was looking like.
[00:01:52] So I actually went down and started at Florence and hosted up on the jetty there after years like a four and a half hour drive and it's a pretty rustic spot and you bump
[00:02:05] out on the jetty and my van there was a big sand drift over the jetty and I didn't get to park out into my normal spot so adds a little bit of the drama and bundled up and
[00:02:16] it was cold outside beautiful weather but cold outside ran up over the doon and looked out to see it and it was absolutely massive. It was a macket, it was you know Hawaiian 8 to 10 to 15 feet something like that totally pumping
[00:02:32] the wind was light too which I sort of suspected for that first look we were at the very beginning of the wind in the forecast and the wind was light and I had an early departure
[00:02:41] so I just kind of snuggled down in the dunes there and had a lunch and watched the waves which were just spectacular and took a little rest and then headed south, met up with a buddy
[00:02:53] down in Kuzbe and then spent the night there and then straight to the capes of Ashton after that to the next morning and it was it was on straight away. Oh beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful. So you're down there for for how long?
[00:03:08] You know about three days down there and the conditions it was just you know as after looking at Florence and seeing these waves breaking so far out to see 500 yards past the
[00:03:22] jetty, jotting it's and it's not like the waves in Hawaii tend to be a little bit more organized by sets. So you know the channels working you can kind of get away with a lot there.
[00:03:35] You can sneak out, you can get in position whereas the coast it's just sand. It's just sand bars and beach breaks. So the waves were just like just pumping non-stop so I was actually hoping to get south
[00:03:49] and get a little bit around the corner and get out of the brunt of the energy and that's what we found down in the cap. And at first morning it was you know it was still sizable you know
[00:04:01] as wind surfing that first day and it was mass-tied for sure over mass-tied bigger on the outside sets and windy straight on to a four or five I should have been on a four or something like that.
[00:04:12] It was absolutely amazing. But that's good because it gives you a lot of mobility right? You can you can get around and you know you look at it and it's like well I'm here and it doesn't
[00:04:23] exactly look fun but you gotta get out there right it's just raspy and rough and challenging and and so we we just went for it and we got to enjoy riding the peak of the swell I would say
[00:04:36] because that afternoon there was probably as the tide was reaching high we probably had a 15 minute period where the waves were non-stop. It was just 10 foot quarter right coming in chaos you know
[00:04:48] just everywhere you could get around and just sit in that but from there it just started to drop and drop and drop and the wind started to moderate and moderate and then it just got better
[00:04:58] and better and better for the next couple days so I was glad to start on the peak of the swell you know because the rest of it seemed felt a little more manageable actually yeah yeah that was super good
[00:05:10] how long have you been sailing for now? Two well I'm 52 I learned when I was 14 in southwest Florida that was sort of like the part of that that first real heyday of wind surfing and I grew up
[00:05:29] between Michigan and Florida and in Florida I lived on the Gulf Coast southwest Florida as sterile island and went all my high school years there and that was you know you could be a
[00:05:42] surfer in southwest Florida but that was more like you either had to drive or you had to like pose with your board because there was not a lot of waves going on you know and the the wind surfing
[00:05:55] kind of caught hold there and exploded in my area actually so this is around the Santa Belkaptiva Naples that area we have the Santa Belka's way and in those years it went from zero to
[00:06:10] hundred so fast like a few wind surfers and then the next you know in six months it would double and then double again and then double again and we had a national competitions at the Santa Belka's
[00:06:23] way where we were all racing one design stuff and we would have 200 competitors there not to mention the associated family and camper vans and parties and this and that and for for a high school kid it
[00:06:36] was just like it was a blast I'm not much of a team sport guy you know so I that was my you know I laughed because me and my best friend in high school where we went out for soccer and we were just
[00:06:48] dabbling with wind surfing at that time and we could both kind of play soccer a little bit we were having fun and all the sudden one day we realized how badly we wanted to go wind surfing
[00:06:57] and we show up for soccer practice and it's a rare occurrence that there's a wind in southwest floor the trees were shaken and we looked at each other and we're like that's it soccer's done
[00:07:07] we're out of here and that started probably I would say out of two to three years we missed maybe you know if one of us had to go on a family vacation or something like that we would miss days
[00:07:21] I would bet in two to three years we missed no more than 20 days, 25 days of wind surfing and in southwest floor that a lot yeah standing and almost no wind but we would make the best of it you know and
[00:07:34] and practice pumping in no air and practice you know play king of the board you know we were riding these 12 6th Missile super light one design boards and we would just go and play and we had a
[00:07:45] community at friends and we had such a blast and you know our friends would come down the girls would come down and it was it was such a fun seat so you know as we kind of finished high school a lot
[00:07:57] of friends kind of continued on that racing endeavor they wanted to be one design racers a lipid class division to whatever and we had gotten a little taste of high wind wind surfing
[00:08:11] and we just went in a different direction we decided so my best friend was a year older he got a trip to Hawaii for his high school graduation present we were doing everything together and at that
[00:08:25] time and he told me he's like oh I got a trip to Hawaii for my graduation present they looked at me and he goes but you have to come too right and I'm a junior in high school I'm like well
[00:08:35] yeah love to you know and we were both working at that time so we had money there was like it's kind of a cool area that we grew up in in southwest floor on a stair a sterile island
[00:08:44] because there was just jobs around and just tons of energy and we had night jobs we taught we'd surfing on the weekends and we put it together and I was fortunate to accompany him
[00:08:55] to that on that trip to Hawaii which was one month on a walk who and then one month on Maui and it changed my life that was just like so sweet yeah so I was 16 and
[00:09:07] did that trip with him and we come to the end of the summer time and I'm like okay well time to go home right and he's like well actually I'm gonna stay and he went on to go to
[00:09:19] community college there on Maui and it left me in a pickle like oh I could have easily stayed that could have found some kind of worker whatever but I realized that wasn't prepared
[00:09:31] if I realized that if I stayed I would probably never finish ice cream but it was a hard choice to make and I decided all right let's go back to Florida and I spent that year continuing to
[00:09:43] teach wind surfing on the weekends and I was busing tables at night and then my the one thing that I really wanted to do by that time I'd already had sort of a kind of pardon me developed
[00:09:57] to interest in sail making my my mom is a as a sewer I've been around sewing machines my whole I'm very comfortable with that sort of thing and I was really fascinated by
[00:10:09] you know it goes back to a story like my uncle the first time I ever went sailing was on a suntish and I was 12 11 or 12 years old and my uncle said hey come on we're gonna go sailing
[00:10:21] and as a great let's go sailing and you know we get to the little beach rental center and he knows the guy and we organize the thing we drag this sunfish down there and put it in the water and
[00:10:31] in my experience mind I thought you just get out of the water and you just get blown somewhere hadn't thought passed that you know like that's how it works so we get out there and immediately
[00:10:42] we start going into the wind and I remember just being absolutely dumbfounded by what was happening because we're surrounded by all this air that's moving that way but we're going that way how's this possible you know so that was the initial thread that I pulled that that
[00:11:00] grew into this fascination and so that's what you know spent time sailing with him I ended up actually running that beach rental center at one point with prindles and hobby cats oh god that's
[00:11:11] before insurance and everything we would send people out boats flipping this appearance is chaos but that's that's the time right but it was so much fun I knew yeah that I wanted to be a sailmaker
[00:11:24] so I in southwest Florida there was a big boat lost that was run by a guy who actually incidentally I'm working with again which is another wild story but he uh Brian Thompson and he uh I went to that
[00:11:39] big boat lost and I said I want to come here four days a week I'll work for free all you had to assign this paper so that I could get my uh oh hey let me see if I can silence my
[00:11:51] note can you still hear me okay yeah sure no worries yep I'm good there we go um I said well you sign will you sign this paper so I can get out of school early and and I'll sweep I'll do
[00:12:04] whatever and and he took me on and I'll be forever grateful for Brian doing that for me and he taught me how to sew on the old Bernina 2017 which is the machines that so many of us sail makers
[00:12:17] and sail designers use and we taught me how to do traditional floor layouts and string layouts and transfer to hard patterns one to one hard patterns how to cut how to stick how to sew
[00:12:31] basic assemblies all of these sort of things so I spent my senior year basically volunteering at that loft and then at the very end I made a me two sails for myself and a quiver bag and I had
[00:12:43] a plain ticket from Maui and probably the day after graduation I think that took us and uh and ended up on Maui and that was at 1989 yep oh whoa okay so do you think it was a good thing then that
[00:12:56] you got to stay back and learn a little bit before heading back out absolutely because it it allowed me to show up on Maui with with something to offer you know I had already had a fair bit of
[00:13:09] experience in win surfing but i'd never skill other than teaching and I wasn't really passionate about teaching and uh it's that didn't really call to me but the I like I like I love sail making and I
[00:13:24] love that kind of work because it's very tedious it's very busy you have to be very focused it's not for everyone I've tried to teach several different people how to how to how to do the work that I do
[00:13:36] and they just their board instantly because it's you know there's a lot of repetitive stuff there's a lot of difficult things it's not just like you know the other extreme would be like your
[00:13:47] your celebrity board shape or right they're just in there just like mowing foam and creating this beautiful object but uh there it is there's so much more delayed gratification it's sail making
[00:14:00] you've got to put the time in you know you've got to you've got to you know just cutting all the panels takes time I mean we've sent some moved on to plotters and digitizing everything but it's
[00:14:11] still quite tedious you know it's to build a sail or a wing is you know it's 12 man hours of work and that's if your system is set up that's if your machines running right is if you're organized
[00:14:24] you know what you want but you a lot of times you don't even know what's happening you know your assembly is going well but you don't know until you rig that thing or until you inflate that
[00:14:34] thing what actually happened through that process and it's not so apparent if there's a mistake where it came in so you know the the construction is is really an import it's it's like
[00:14:48] people think sales and wings are sort of like stamped out of a press but they're so bloody labor intensive and the tolerances I'm on .25 of an mm for tolerances for main teams and things like that
[00:15:02] you know outline things like that you have a little more room to play with but when you're dealing with profile scenes and shaping scenes there's there's really no tolerance it has to be correct so you know having spent that time learning under Brian Thompson and understanding the importance
[00:15:20] of precision understanding a little bit of the skill set how to basic stuff man like how to how to maintain your scissors because they it's in so important you know you have to know how to
[00:15:31] sharpen your scissors and you have to know exactly where and how to keep the oil then how your rulers are set up and all of these tools require knowledge and experience to know how to run yeah
[00:15:44] it's just pins, pens and scissors but really there's a lot more to it than that you gotta be super organized so I'm very thankful that I went back and hooked up with Brian and got the basic skill set
[00:15:58] at least open the door and you know arriving on Maui without wasn't a guarantee either it was it was really a busy time there were a lot of people around there was a lot of people hustle and
[00:16:12] for work straight off the airplane you could go work at a board shop you could do ding repair you could you could apprentice uh laminating or sanding or doing any one of those things again those didn't
[00:16:25] really appeal to me the the loft jobs were very few and far between so I you know I it took me a year to find my first job actually and in that year I did a lot of surfing because I had to work in the
[00:16:39] daytime which was great yeah you know it's like I was working nine to three 30 so that really kind of bit into my you know windsurf possibility of course on the weekends but I was digging ditches
[00:16:52] I was doing landscaping I started to do some construction work I ended up on a framing crew and that was actually really fun and interesting because it's kind of up my alley that sort of thing
[00:17:03] precise measurements building things but true I knew that I wasn't going to be a builder for a living and luckily the guy who was teaching me was also hardcore wind surfers so the day when the day came
[00:17:17] that I showed up and said hey I got it I got an offer to work at this loft I'm I'm on my way out he was understanding and very supportive of me so that's awesome yeah yeah yeah so it took a year
[00:17:33] and finally just word of mouth a friend of mine we were down at Paiyo one day and yells across the street from he's in front of monofoos I'm across at hair vendors and he goes hey I heard as he's
[00:17:45] looking for somebody and I just dropped everything and went oh okay right I went straight up the hike hoop to my house pull out the phone book of course looked up David as he like this there's
[00:18:00] his number called him immediately and said you know I I'd love to come and talk to you I'd love to are you looking for somebody yeah yeah I'd love to come and talk to you and I said well
[00:18:11] all I'd love to come right now he says okay well here's my address turns out he's on the other end of this loop street that I'm living on in high coup just by chance I didn't even know he was
[00:18:22] there so I was able to walk from my house to his design lofts on mopu a place and we we pretty much hit it off I think I was exactly what he was looking for young and keen and impressionable
[00:18:36] and that was exactly what I was looking for was just a fast track right into the heart of the industry and the and the trade as well so you know we had a couple get to know you's and within
[00:18:52] a couple few weeks I was pretty much full time working for him and you know within within six months I was overseas and he was designing for north sales at that time and I was in Sri Lanka within
[00:19:06] six months which was my first time out of the country we were there for seven weeks or something like that I almost died of a staff infection and and culture shock and it was just like oh this crazy
[00:19:19] thing but it was it was wild because it was straight into the north sales factory which was was at eight sixteenths two shifts and we would work the both shifts because we had to teach and
[00:19:29] introduce patterns to everybody and I don't know how many workers there were 400 something like that they were doing 38 35 thousand sales something like that whoa it was not so straight into the frying pan
[00:19:42] yeah right in the hand I worked I worked with four and yeah I worked for and with David for almost 10 years like nine years or so beautiful so I gave you a heck of a of a good intro into the industry
[00:19:57] definitely yeah that was fantastic and probably the best part about that I mean he was a fall he was a task master and he was not easy to work for but his work ethic was
[00:20:11] like I mean for me it would be unsustainable what that guy was doing at that time he was up at 330 in the morning um laying out patterns I would show up at six thirty we would build a sale every day
[00:20:24] five days a week and that's the only exception is when we were in Sri Lanka which we went twice a year for a week set of time and so not only building that many sales by hand I've probably had built
[00:20:38] 3000 sales or something like that the uh two o'clock we went and tested so it was we would rig it check it and then straight to the beach and oftentimes from the high cool off just like
[00:20:52] who locked his like seven minutes to hookypa test there and as the sun got low we would race down to Kanawha in test whatever free ride sales or even wave sales um as hookypa the wind started to drop
[00:21:05] we would just head down the coast and test until dark and then we would test on the weekends too it was exhausting it was just like it was nonstop but I took on a lot of experience so a lot
[00:21:16] of knowledge in that time oh yeah big time holy man what a what an intro into the wind sports that's pretty cool yeah yeah so what happened after uh working for EZ where did you go from there
[00:21:28] so from there I was actually pretty like pretty physically destroyed at the end of that time and it i mean it's hard to overstate how rigorous that schedule was um and I you know all
[00:21:45] it once I left that job I left the marriage moved houses I just did this major reset in my life I realized I needed a break uh flew to the mainland hooked up with the buddy and veil
[00:22:00] Colorado uh searched for a couple weeks found a beautiful old Ford picked up truck with a camper shell on it and uh I just tripped around on the mainland for three months or something like that I drove from
[00:22:16] main to Florida to Colorado, California everywhere except the Northwest actually and just mountain bike my brains out and connected with family and friends and did a major reset and uh just enjoyed that
[00:22:31] time before I left for that trip uh and the word sort of had gotten out that I I had left the uh my employment with EZ there I I spoke to a few different people in the industry about the potential
[00:22:47] of working together and I actually I had a fantastic conversation with a cloud simmer and he came to me or I figured the I can't even remember who how very organic I mean I managed a tiny place we just see
[00:23:03] everybody all the time and he was curious about what I was up to and so we uh we had a great conversation and while I was on the mainland I really gave me a lot to think about and um in the end
[00:23:18] I ended up uh coming back uh to Maui I had signed a no compete clause with EZ that was you know since having it reviewed by lawyers and stuff was completely outlandish and and probably uninforcible
[00:23:35] but I wasn't it was like a two year period where I wasn't supposed to do anything for anyone but it was you know I and but I wasn't in a rush to do anything either I didn't want to jump
[00:23:45] into another major relationship so I came back to Maui and I just sort of started to hang around at the simmer loss and uh talking to clouds and developing a relationship with him
[00:24:00] maybe just kind of casually advising on what I saw with what was going on with their sales and I started to do a sail repair business which at that time was one of my best friends
[00:24:14] on Maui and I actually did it together and that was right in paia we would take in gosh too many sales more than we could manage you know eight to 12 to 50 pardon me sales a and that's how I paid my
[00:24:27] rent for a long time and it also was you know working with EZ was very insular there was no there was somewhat limited interaction with other brands with other products it was very like
[00:24:45] very much just what we were doing so the process of running through I mean they're there I can think of the top three repairs that I did over and over again that paid by rent in my food bill
[00:24:58] and it was such a great education and how how to do things and how maybe also not do things I learned so much so you know and then you know we're getting into a year into that two year
[00:25:11] no compete and then I just sort of realized that I was not really beholden to anyone about where I could work and when I could work and I just slid in and just started kind of one one model at a time
[00:25:26] designing the simmer stuff, getting overseas and organizing production and and just kind of let that relationship grow so um so that was simmer and my first chance to do an original design on the market
[00:25:41] and we we did pretty well in those years they went from maybe to this is it's a very it's a very bootique brand compared to the bigger brands and you know we I think we tripled quadrupled the
[00:25:58] number of sales we were selling went from 2000 to 2467 maybe eight thousand sales by the time I left which is good for you guys pretty good number and in that time achievable number for the
[00:26:12] this is this is still before height you know hiding was just starting right about then just as I was sort of you know into my last two years with simmer and being a more bootique brand it
[00:26:27] allowed you know we were there all we could do is grow really so it was it was a perfect setup for me to introduce my ideas my concepts bring some people on who identified with what I was doing
[00:26:41] and what I was looking for in the sales um it was uh I had the opportunity to write a lot of the marketing materials for simmer which was a great thing for me to be able to you know push what we were
[00:26:55] doing on Maui at that time and simmer had you know simmer the ownership of that brand has changed and not long after that it changed and there was there there was a lot of energy kind of going away
[00:27:09] from Maui and that's that to me that was just a tragedy because that was uh the heart and soul of that brand and what people really identified with and when I identified with when I was in high school
[00:27:23] opening wind surf magazines and you see malt of simmer just hitting the lip on a 10-foot wave it's like that's it blue water trunks simmer the stuff doesn't break like this is the heart and
[00:27:36] soul of this brand and there and there there was kind of a feeling in the industry to that oh don't be so Maui's centric don't be don't you have to travel the world to understand with the
[00:27:49] world needs and there's you know there's element of truth to that but you can't cut yourself off at the knees like the foundation of your brand either so being able to write
[00:27:59] those marketing materials was a great opportunity for me to shine a light on what I was doing personally and what we were doing as a team as well I was working with Kai Kachadoran who's still a
[00:28:11] simer rider and working with who unders bring doll as well as a ripper yeah he those are just such fun times he was just a great guy to work with such a talented wind surfer charger too oh my gosh
[00:28:26] and Robbie Seeger was on the sales then and oh how many more yeah it was it was it was it was great and we were able to really kind of reinforce the heritage the Maui heritage brand it was a
[00:28:39] great project and I was working for so I was working for class initially and then I then Thomas Pearson had the as a Swedish student has the he's actually to this day has the license
[00:28:51] I think he bought the hardware portion of the company and he was an awesome dude to work for we had so much fun working in China together and you know we're younger we're partying we're like building
[00:29:06] sales and traveling to different places and you know it was it was at who for sure so I was a simer with seven eight years or so but I work for Simmer seven eight years okay well years or
[00:29:19] is that oh was that nine two thousand eighty nine two thousand the two thousand yeah it was almost nine years 2009 roughly okay so I wrote some of those simmers you did yeah I wrote some of those man
[00:29:39] I love them yeah yeah so cool and then it was just so stoked I the first trip to Maui I picked up two used masks and they're both simmer masks and I also picked up a couple of use simmers sales back in
[00:29:50] 2012 awesome and they yeah yeah so those was pretty sick and true into wind surfing for sure a lot of heretician history there which was for sure and you know I still see I still see Malta around and his son is a fantastic
[00:30:08] winger as well Justin Simmer around Maui there and it's really fun to see those guys and have this history and have been part of history of that company and still you know it's still communicating
[00:30:24] and enjoying the enjoying what we do on Maui it's pretty fun oh yeah absolutely how did that transition then go from Simmer into who you're working with now that was so where where I am now is you know my
[00:30:41] intro is so goiowinsurfing where do we start here Francisco goiow and Lalo goiow our brothers right and they moved to Maui Francisco moved to Maui about the same time I did 89 and straight from Argentina
[00:31:00] and he was English was minimal but he was it it was a stoked and talented wind surfer and you know we were I was so wrapped up in my asy world and he was wrapped up in his competitive
[00:31:17] world it became apparent that he was you know I like I'm an okay I'm a decent wind surfer and I'm a decent writer but there are those guys and they're just on the top level they're just the
[00:31:30] cream that's it was very apparent that he was one of those guys so we didn't spend a lot of time together in that early years because he was very dedicated to his ass of competitive wind surfing and I was
[00:31:42] very dedicated to my passive wind surfing as much as possible and building sales so we kind of grew up in a way alongside of each other and then some years in his younger brother came from Argentina Lalo
[00:31:57] Alvaro Lalo goiow and Lalo was like 14 when he arrived or something like this and and again Lalo is just like this he's he's he's known as the owner of these companies but I don't know if there's many better barrel riders on Maui better surfers he's so
[00:32:17] understated about what his ability is he's a wicked skater like just a full-on legit athlete you know and happens to be running these companies you know so these two guys and then they have a third brother
[00:32:32] I know there's another brother Alejandro as well who is around town but we kind of all were at the beach together but all on different projects and things like that and then
[00:32:43] the second half of my simmer time we combined our workshops I moved to my design loft out of Paiya up to Hiku in with those guys who are establishing the Quattro board factory up in the
[00:32:55] Pauela Canary and took over this you know 2000 square foot space and we're trying to figure out how to pay the rent and offered me a section I'm like yeah perfect you know and so that was the initial
[00:33:10] board shop in Hiku in the Pauela Canary was Quattro and then the simmer design center which I had signed out and everything like that two machines I was doing repairs and everything so
[00:33:22] we worked next to each other for a while and you know the the simmer thing was fantastic but there was a point where I realized that I didn't I didn't own it I didn't I only had so much influence
[00:33:34] about what was going on there were I mean if I'm honest there were just kind of like some decisions that were being made that were surprises to me which is fine it's not my company but at some
[00:33:46] point I just kind of went I think maybe my time is about done here and I would speak to Lalo in Francisco and you know Francisco has had had started to do some sales on his own you know working
[00:34:01] with different sailmakers on Maui and designers and just kind of like a little bit here and there and I was just like you know you guys I think it's inevitable that we've got to work together here
[00:34:13] and we all agreed but you know we started that conversation when I was really in full swing with simmer and I said let's just let's just keep this in mind let's let this develop for a year to
[00:34:28] and see you know because I was as I said you know I'm I'm back yeah designing for a company that's selling internationally I'm in the marketing materials I'm going to production there's just
[00:34:39] a lot going on to just start from square one but these guys were determined to build something and so basically it comes down to a number right it's like I'd love to work with you guys but this is what
[00:34:52] I need to make to make it happen and we had that conversation and I think it was that evening Lalo called me back and he said let's do it and that was it it was game on from there on
[00:35:06] so I finished my time with simmer finished my productions everything like that it was as as about as well as you can add a relationship I think because I don't think there was any
[00:35:18] part feelings or anything like that it was just obvious we all had to go on to the next thing and for me the idea of working with Lalo and Francisco and Keith Tbilel who is the third owner of
[00:35:31] these brands Keith was like my was like my best friend Ron Maui we moved there again he moved there about the same time and we surfed all the time together we would drive to Oaxahana
[00:35:44] surf we would surf O'Keypo we would we just did everything together chase girls whatever you know and when I when it kind of came to pass that I was going to come and work for these guys
[00:35:56] for me it was like this is it I've arrived I'm not trying to and that's how I feel to this day I'm I'm not interested in I don't have any ownership in these companies I just don't
[00:36:09] I'd it's not interesting to me to take on that sort of responsibility I have too many other things going on in my life but for me I feel like I have arrived this is what I've been working towards
[00:36:21] is this collaboration with these guys we have a lot of history we have a deep respect for each other and you know we've we've had families next to each other we've traveled a lot together
[00:36:34] we're we're really close and you know it's it's dangerous waters for business relationship I know because I've seen it go wrong so many times but we keep our communication super clean
[00:36:48] and our deal is square they don't owe me anything I don't know what them anything it could end tomorrow and it's all good it's not ending tomorrow I can promise that but it's just like it's like this
[00:37:02] is this is what we've been working towards because yep it really is about relationships and community and especially for us and our target and what we're trying to do we're trying to
[00:37:16] we're trying to create the stuff that we love to ride and we want to share it with people and we want to interact with people and we want to work with our riders we want to work with our
[00:37:26] customers and have an open communication about what because these the sports are changing so fast I mean winging obviously it's like it's it's like hyperspeed you have to be receptive so you know what your riders and your customers are experiencing and the same thing is happening
[00:37:46] with wind surfing too I mean it's it's been so fun to be part of this industry in the last years because it's a ball you know from wind surfing it was like oh here comes citing wind
[00:37:58] surfing has been cancelled okay it did take our volume way down but we learned to coexist and I have to thank citing for forcing us to create gear that works in those conditions that other guys were
[00:38:11] saying oh you can only kite in this we're wind surfing in in conditions and your kite falls out of the sky we're wind surfing in lighter conditions than kiders can go in at this point depending you know if it's
[00:38:22] gusty or whatever in your kite's falling so it really you know it really you know actually I would say to rove the development of board design more than anything that we can ride these giant
[00:38:39] boards that turn you know I took a brand new board out to the coast 91 leaders I'm there's no wind I'm standing there my ankles are dry and the board just rips you can't you can put you can
[00:38:51] turn it as hard as you want to there's no limit whereas in the old days we just rode longer and longer boards and they got harder and harder to turn as they got bigger and now there's no loss of new
[00:39:03] availability you know and that's due to the the pressure of improving the gear because of citing because of any other sport that comes along you know it's it's I love it it's just a healthy
[00:39:17] environment to push everything along and and progress things and make it fun make it more fun you know when surfing after after 15 20 years and the boards were kind of the same it had a little bit of a
[00:39:30] feeling like we're just kind of sharpening the same sort over and over again and then citing just through a bomb in the middle of all of that and what came out of the other side are these boards that are so
[00:39:40] much more thunder ride and because the boards are buoyant because they're loose it just blows open all these doors for sale design too making the sales lighter more reactive you know not to mention that the
[00:39:55] that the technique and material development is coming along we're riding masks that way nothing and they don't break we're riding booms that are just so minimalist and they don't break you know it's
[00:40:06] just it's it's so it's so fun it's so fun and and now you know with winging same thing it's like this alternative that in my mind really compliments when surfing and it's it's just it's just
[00:40:21] bringing more people into this arena of wind and water sports I think it's fantastic oh yeah I cap it captures a whole group of people who would don't want to kite because they
[00:40:33] feel as too dangerous they don't want to win surfers for some for I don't know why they wouldn't want to win surfers but anyways they choose not to and then it opens up this window for winging which
[00:40:43] is a completely different feeling completely different sport like how did you come up with your first concept of your first wing did you where I guess where you're where did you borrow from or where did
[00:40:56] you feel would be where you would start well it was for me I never got into kite designs so that technology was foreign to me uh soft materials, blatters like when it's just a bladder
[00:41:17] trying to understand how part of me how those things all came together and the pressures and the loads and all of these things and honestly it was it was a little overwhelming at first it you know
[00:41:32] partially because I drugged my feet in the beginning because I you know I've got three kids I loved to win surf I love to surf I like to fish like like golf I like to mount bike
[00:41:44] there's only so much time in the day and Lolo called me one days like there is a dude we got I think we got to do wings and I was like oh really come on he's like yeah we got we got to do wings
[00:41:57] not gonna last man it's gonna I said man I you know I I'm not your guy can you can you you find someone else and he's like okay okay and that a month or two later he calls it any
[00:42:10] he's like Jason I said yes I knew what was coming because I needed to do these wings and this is the relationship we have is if he calls me out in that regard I'll drop everything
[00:42:25] for these guys I'll do else I said okay all right you want it we'll do it I started with the factory who produces our wind surfing sales was also doing kites and wings
[00:42:38] I said do you have any stop wings you can send me they said sure I sent me a couple wings of course you know I did so I get them here and I'm like well I guess I got to learn how to wing
[00:42:49] and you know flying the wing takes 10 minutes to figure out right you just like it just it's really easy compared to flying a foil and so I spent time on those wings and spent time on the
[00:43:01] SUP board just figuring out how to go back and forth and you know by the second session I'm like well this wing is not good it has to change and again it was just following that thread of okay
[00:43:14] this this leading edge is too small this catapest too soft this thing is too heavy and you just start unraveling it but I had to start from square one on the design and figure out how to design
[00:43:26] and how to draw the things what the different parts were the different seeming methods all of that so getting those wings from the factory doing modifications and at the same time I wrote
[00:43:40] every wing I could get my hands on I wrote I mean I purchased a lot of wings too I just had a look of what was going on around in the industry for sure and it was you know the thing about a wing
[00:43:53] is it's like it's so forgiving especially in those early days you know that if you saw the meme of Robbie on the the kite foil board or the wing foil board with the umbrella like I don't know
[00:44:06] if you've ever seen that there's a meme of yeah I think I have it really you know typifies the experience it's like it almost doesn't matter what you have in your hands so there's far more pressure
[00:44:18] on the the foil the board and you as the rider the wing is almost incidentally at the beginning you know anything will get you going so sliding in at that moment and just like okay you know
[00:44:30] you don't have to freak out that it's not the perfect wing or this or that just get out there just ride it see what it feels like and this and that and riding a lot of different wings and seeing
[00:44:39] with how the other designers were approaching the the problems was because a big part of how I was able to kind of get some traction in the in the design oh okay one second yeah because your V1
[00:44:55] yeah yeah your V1 wing came out very good I got to say like compared to a lot of other brands like we loved your long handles we liked the way it rode it pumped it pumped to well it flew
[00:45:07] well it was a tinge heavier than others but it didn't I didn't seem to matter very much yeah yeah because those long handles were just they were great now it's actually talking
[00:45:20] his name escapes me right now oh but anyways he was in the garage and he was selling for you guys for a little while I too Andrew yeah Andrew is saying that those long handles he loved them
[00:45:35] for the length of time that they were around because you could stink bug and you can get gone fast so yeah we were kind of we're waiting to see when when you had launched them but it was cool that
[00:45:45] you waited because you got to look at some other things and then you came in you're like oh wow so they're right there which was just awesome so that was kind of a cool little thing that happened
[00:45:54] yeah yeah that was what what really helped me and it was a big kind of milestone for me as as I was shaping these things and creating the profiles that all felt very familiar to me
[00:46:11] and it was when I when I really started to identify with what I was building when I could the profiles that I drew into those wings are almost unchanged from now from then until now you know
[00:46:26] maybe a little more a little bit less but it's really there's there's far more in common with a wind surfing sale with the wing than I would have thought at the beginning so being able to relate
[00:46:37] those two and to be able to draw in some of that experience that I have and shaping wind surfing sales really helped a lot okay because in wind surfing sales like you have so many like
[00:46:48] you have all these different panels you got different forces acting and now all of this stuff works together to distribute load and force and propulsion same thing kind of in winging with the canopy
[00:47:01] and how it interacts with the leading edge in the center strut and all that kind of thing it's it's so similar you know I mean you can compare a mass to a leading edge you know you can
[00:47:12] affect the performance of the wing a lot by how much pressure you put in that leading edge and you can affect the performance of a sale a lot by the stiffness stiffness of the mass
[00:47:22] you put in there and also the ben curve and that's you know the LE has a ben curve as well as you as you control the diameter as you do change the flex and and then as it relates to the
[00:47:34] boom and that connection between the LE and the strut are like the boom on a wind surfing sale and you want to really solid connection there and you have to you know be careful of your boom
[00:47:45] length your strut length and same thing with a wind surfing sale it's it's really just like a free handheld sale which is kind of what a wind surfing sale it is except for the universal
[00:47:57] joint obviously that's there's they're very very really excited I've accepted it as as being similar except it was going to stick around for a while oh yeah I you know I have to say that
[00:48:15] it was if I'm completely honest it was work in the beginning I had to use a lot of self discipline and especially learning to slide that down foil oh my gosh you know ciders who are foilors
[00:48:28] like to me a kite with a foil is one of the coolest crafts on the ocean you know during the water I mean to say because of the uplift because of the angles because you're up in that
[00:48:38] clean air um so those you know watching those guys made me interested in and you know with a wing it's a little bit different but that learning process foil was just it was horrifying it was
[00:48:51] a blood my stuff's flipping over I didn't know how to carry it I didn't like it's just so hooking you know you're just like this big yeah cool toy cupcake of a wing flying around
[00:49:05] and then you've got this death machine like under your arm and you're trying to keep them away from each other oh yeah hit it and hit all of that so I had to you know I just said okay I'm
[00:49:17] gonna go 10 times for an hour each time I don't care how bad it goes I'm gonna just do this you know and luckily you know in the gorge here that's you can get conditions pretty consistently so
[00:49:28] getting over that hump you know learning how to job was was like the first real milestone for me being comfortable on the gear because by the time you're learning to drive you've also learned how to
[00:49:40] fall you've kind of understood understand when things start to come apart what might happen so it's a little less scary you've learned to not let go of your wing ever you've learned you know just
[00:49:52] just you just get more comfortable with it so driving was was a big one and and that was all in the time of trying so many different wings too and you know the drive was was this kind of this
[00:50:04] holy grail of like okay if I could just do that and that's the time I was using the the F1 wings the strike and those those wings good to learn on the best wings to learn on yeah my god they're just
[00:50:17] they're incredible those guys shot yeah shout out F1 you guys knocked it out of the park on that one it was such it it helped me you know like I'm trying to like my feet feel like they're glued to
[00:50:30] the board and I'm trying to get around and the wing is just sitting there you know smiling at me waiting for me and you just grab it and wait you go look you know it was it was awesome to ride that and so many
[00:50:41] the others too were worked really well so getting over that zero of the foil getting comfortable with managing it you know how to pack it in your car how to how to transport it all of these things
[00:50:53] I'm finally over I in you know and it's all kind of leading to the to the essence of this which you know to me what's the de coolis sport on the planet it's surfing everything else is kind of like
[00:51:09] you're snowboarding and it's like you're surfing you know and you're skiing and it's like you're surfing and you do it it's like you're surfing you're skateboarding it's like you're surfing but when you're on a foil in the river and you're riding knee-high swells and cutting back
[00:51:25] and reconnecting and it is the most like surfing of almost anything I've done that wasn't actually surfing so all of you know the wing the paddle all of this is just trying to capture that
[00:51:39] that feeling of of riding that swell energy and for me it's super fun I'm having a blast with it oh yeah and you're living in one of the best places in the world like at AWSI I was out there testing
[00:51:52] I think your gear and moon a white was not that far away we're both riding these like shoulder high whatever sets at eventsite and they were first time me riding there in actual nice size of
[00:52:03] old stuff with a three meter I think it was and oh like I don't obviously the current help because I had a lot more lift than normal but it was such a beautiful place and just so many people
[00:52:13] around because I'm you we're used to sailing so my where my brother and I go and thank Hoover on where sometimes we'll have four or five people other at least you'll have a hundred
[00:52:22] some of them you're nobody so it's so cool to see everybody there having fun and the set up it's insane it's fantastic for wind surfing it's okay for kidding I think you've got
[00:52:33] you know that sandbar got barfed into the river however many years ago eight nine years ago which created this like playpark for citing but its access is tough for citing you know
[00:52:43] getting in and out of the water but just the the openness of the playing field how portable a wing and foil is and how much swell energy is available on the river it's just it's phenomenal
[00:52:55] it's like it's like I'm seeing the gorge offering a more opportunity than I ever could have imagined at this point you know just seeing what how many people it can accommodate as well you know
[00:53:10] there's space for everybody I'm not a grumble or I don't give crap how many people are out if it's too crowded I'm not to me it's fun you know you find guys to ride with you go up you go down
[00:53:22] you share you share time and experience and there's there's so much space on this river and you know parking's getting a little tight around here but you just got to get on an early you know
[00:53:32] you just got a you plan for it can't just show up on Saturday at 11 o'clock and think you're going to park somewhere it just doesn't happen so you just yeah you gotta get ahead of it and yeah again
[00:53:43] back to the the gorge it's just like it's it's it's phenomenal you know for subfoiling for because the the wind in the current are generally opposing here I just create so many opportunities
[00:53:57] yeah no yeah I was I'm stoked to go back next year and spend a bit more time there you go for a month or so and and just hit some different locations and now that now that
[00:54:07] wing is coming along at least you got two sports to pick from so yeah but I want to circle back a little bit to your wings how did you decide how big to go on that leading edge and how did you
[00:54:17] decide stiffness and all that kind of thing for your V1 and even your V2 so I did my early kind of exploration into the design and learning how to wing myself here at the gorge and then
[00:54:29] jump to Maui from my winter spring and connected with Casey Houser who's a good friend of mine and I've known him for many many years and he joined our team riding the sales the wind
[00:54:44] surfers of kiter he's just a nirally athlete too and I really you know at at some point after gathering knowledge for a period of time which was months year or more I stopped listening to everything
[00:54:59] around me and focused in on what I wanted to do and in Casey was my partner in that he was the guy balanced ideas off of he was the guy that I tested with he's the guy who I would send wings to
[00:55:14] test with and we we went we actually we didn't design a wing with the world in mind we designed a wing with an idea in mind which was maximum power super punchy very stable and very controllable
[00:55:35] easy to easy to handle and because we're testing mostly off the North Shore Maui out of the spots there out of cool out out of Kanaaha places like that riding in waves where we wanted to get punched
[00:55:48] out of the water quickly and juiced up fast and have a lot of stability when overpowered because on Maui you get overpowered a lot you know you've got westerly swells coming in and offshore winds
[00:55:59] and you get this big compression and things just start loading up so that was sort of the design goal and you know it's sort of the opposite of what I described with the F1 type wing which is very
[00:56:12] very approachable very soft very easy to handle and we kind of went the other way and that's what was working for us in those conditions and Casey really pushed for having that
[00:56:24] handle connect all the way to the leading edge and you get the first prototype and just as a just to try it and I never made another one different after that you know it looks funny because
[00:56:37] it was super tight it wrapped the front people are like oh it rubs my knuckles on out but I think is is when you're when you're hanging on and you're loaded the handle pulls away
[00:56:48] and you just have all of this range and when you're starting it's easy to get under and grab it to get the thing over your head go so having that accessibility to that front handle is really good
[00:56:58] especially if you're in the surf you're on a sinker board you're just doing everything you can but just get the thing over your head and get going so that was really a big part of that
[00:57:08] handle configuration was just making it easy to get going and having a lot of adjustment and range and also we liked how that narrow soft handle you could hook your fingers and you just wouldn't
[00:57:21] get tired you wouldn't get arm pump you wouldn't get that sort of feeling yep so for that time and that wing you know that the soft handle is definitely not dead at this moment we're only doing
[00:57:32] art handles but we're still I still play around with soft handle ideas and probably will come with something like that again so that was where that wing came from it's really learning what they did about the constructions and how they behaved and formed it and getting this
[00:57:51] size range of wings and getting the diameters right through the whole size range and getting a similar feel through the size range and then that was the version one wing right there okay
[00:58:03] no fair enough and then how do you decide let's say canopy material like how many rips stop to go there's a lot of new material coming out now is that something that you're thinking about incorporating
[00:58:14] I try some of them ones at AWS I it's hitting miss some non stretch they're going eco friendly but some of them I didn't find didn't perform as well yeah so as you hear us on your thoughts yeah
[00:58:27] well everything all ideas are on the table always for sure i've got a lot of different sample materials and i've got sample wings and new ones coming as well with different LE different canopy
[00:58:38] and the thing with materials it's like there's no better or worse they just do certain things so it's a matter of getting the best out of each part that you want you know so like our first
[00:58:50] wings had were just super simple single panel wings they didn't have radios it didn't have anything it was just a very simple design which was kind of where i was at in my design ability at
[00:59:04] that point actually is making sure i could get a really clean shape get the trailing edge tension that I wanted and nothing extra just very simple keep it light and no windows as well
[00:59:17] we were just like we're in the surf just look if you needed this in that i'll never make another wing without a window at this point we need those for sure especially with the number of
[00:59:26] people that are out there so you know rips stop is fantastic it gives a breathability a softness to the wing combined just like i do in the wind surfing sales you know you can't build a sail
[00:59:38] completely out of hard materials you lose that softness that forgiveness you lose that need sometimes you want a little bit of stretch you don't want stretch that just continues you want stretch that comes back so that bit of stretch gives you that softer clutch feeling it allows
[00:59:57] you to power and depower more easily and you know just combining those different types of materials that have different stretch characteristics in the right ways the puzzle that's puzzle of the design and now with hard handles how did you find that transition from
[01:00:20] incorporating that a that they can't rip off b you guys are using two bolts i think some brands are using one like all that kind of thing yeah yeah so the hard handle we have is not
[01:00:32] currently is not uncommon on the market it's an oeum hard handle that factory was able to get a whole of which we like a lot actually it's super stiff and it's it's a little heavy you know it's
[01:00:43] for bull per handle which is a little excessive i think we've got a new handle system that we're just finishing testing now that'll come in our next production that's a single bull or more contour
[01:00:57] just a nicer and feel for sure and for me other than the the little bit of arm pump that you can get from a hard handle it's just so much better just to be able to pitch control your
[01:01:12] your wing and to be able to push it you know the soft handle has some comfortable characteristics but for overall control of the wing it's hard to beat our handle it's just so direct
[01:01:26] yeah absolutely and then so how you make sure that those puppies aren't flying off like the original like some of the first version wings they would because now you could use a lot of different
[01:01:39] sewing characteristics to keep the hard the soft handle on but your hard handle seems to be more around a focal point right yeah i mean there's our our soft handles were banded basically you'd
[01:01:52] run a band around and then it touched the band and it was really well supported that regard but we haven't had a hard handle pull-off yet it's just add the layers they need to distribute the load
[01:02:01] it's fine it's not it's not a big issue okay now fair enough so what's coming can you share a little bit of what's coming for 2024 i think i saw a kt it was a prototype but i didn't get to write
[01:02:16] it with with windows and stuff a wsi yeah yeah yeah but i missed it on that one we can if what's that so i missed out on writing it oh yeah yeah come back i've got one right here um
[01:02:33] get what stuff so i don't want to give uh okay so if you think about the version one wing that we put out then we did the hard handle version wing which still maintain a lot of that power and actually
[01:02:46] had a bit better control i i can't imagine the wing getting more powerful so where can we improve which would be to a little bit more usability a little bit more of a soft clutch maybe not such a
[01:03:00] complete uh tractor pull feeling in that low end you know it's trying to make the wing you know particularly in the in maneuvers like tax and things like that where you're trying to get the thing
[01:03:14] over your head and to go the version one wing would kind of the hang back a little bit because it's you know the canopy was soft big leading edge tons of power it was there was harder to push that into the
[01:03:27] wind where i'm the newer wings have more of that natural slight they they're more lift-take they kind of draw you through that maneuver as you're trying to tack and do upwind the new version things like that
[01:03:39] incorporating windows for safety more than anything you know just there's so many people and I've been surprised as we all have been that you know we're silent out there and suddenly there's
[01:03:52] people right below you and you didn't even realize it you know because of the angles that we take on these wheels as well yeah yeah yeah you know i like my riding style is i love to go straight up
[01:04:03] wind i like to go straight off the wind back and forth is like yeah not my favorite you know it's I'll do it you know but to me the joy is in that mobility and to cover great distances and to
[01:04:16] especially here in the gorge you know you sail you ride up wind for 30 minutes and then you're just downwind swell riding you know all the way home you know that's for me that's like i'm a wind guy and
[01:04:28] I love that that mobility that the wind gives you and you know those guys that are doing like shuttle runs in this and then that's all grit you know the subfoil thing is quite interesting and the guys are
[01:04:40] killing it and it must be nice to ride like no wing in your hand but i'm i'm i like to be self-sufficient you know i don't i'm not trying to connect with people every time i go to the water i want to
[01:04:53] i want to launch i want to ride up wind for an hour and then just play all the way down and work on my wing handling and work on managing that plus staying in the swell pocket it's a it's a very fun
[01:05:07] puzzle for me i love i love that independence that the wing gives you and that mobility so with that mobility and all these crazy angles and there's other people riding in a similar style we
[01:05:17] gotta have windows we gotta be able to see who's below or so that's mine that's one change then the other thing that i noticed the difference per brand is how much upwind can you point the wing
[01:05:28] without it backwinding or smacking you yeah some brands i find you can't take them as much into that window and then that's the first one of the first things i test on a new wing when
[01:05:39] what i'm taking the mode is is how how much can i flirt with that upper line and because obviously i'm looking to go upwind as much as i can and if it's going to start smacking me or backwinding a
[01:05:50] little bit then it's like yeah it tells me a little bit of a design now i don't know why it doesn't maybe we could quickly talk about that because i don't know why it does that but
[01:06:01] that's something i've noticed for me you know in win surfing you have to work so hard to gain real estate right when you when you launch out a win surf here for for me and any other
[01:06:14] you know decent sailor the first thing you're thinking is get upwind get upwind put some money in the bank get upwind get upwind get upwind get upwind you know that's part of the racing
[01:06:23] heritage you got to learn how to go upwind so i never really thought about you know as you say you test wings and you check that that limitation on your upwind angles for me i go straight to it
[01:06:38] when i launch this first thing i do is i hook in and i i jam it up with and if i start getting fresh around my front hand or something like that i change the wing i change the
[01:06:48] profile i change it could be something with the trailing edges is not as too tight or not tight enough or just the general tension of the canopy i i don't think i can answer your question about what
[01:07:03] contributes to that or what creates that upwind ability it's a combination of things for sure and there's no real perfect solution it's just working with the materials you've chosen and the profiles that you've got and then you just kind of work on making it fit into those angles
[01:07:22] you know so generally wings a wing that will go upwind well will generally be a flat wing because there's less drag but you have to be careful that the draft is forward as well because that will also draw you upwind but you will suffer across and downwind
[01:07:41] if you go too far in that direction because going downwind you need a bubble upwind you need a knife you know so it's finding the blend between those two things hey thanks for sharing all of this
[01:07:54] with us and kind of helping us get to know you a little bit more i didn't get my chance to talk to you and hood but pretty cool how did you like a WSI overall was it pretty successful for your team
[01:08:05] it was it was fantastic actually and you know the trade shows for me it's like i'd sort of dread them you know when the when the when the calendar starts getting closer
[01:08:20] and you know our teams are organizing and it's like a WSI time it's like oh really because you've got set up it's a lot it's it's like a lot of work and it is you know the the the events site
[01:08:34] here in hood river which i've done a fair number of trade shows over the years for wind surfing it's like the worst place to ever do a wind surf demo i can't think of a worst place on this planet
[01:08:46] to do a wind surf demo and then the event site because you've got that sandbar sticking out there's a big pressure bubble right there the wind sucks it's like if you don't know that spot
[01:08:57] if you don't know that the first thing you do when you hit the water is get your butt upwind if you don't know that you're just going to have a terrible time because you just stuck out with
[01:09:05] front there's not enough wind the waters getting shallow and next thing you know you're upon the sandbar dragging your stuff back and it's like yeah how was your demo well it sucked you know so
[01:09:16] it's like whip and if evolution of the AWS i initially our first AWS i was pre-COVID it was a big it was kind of a wind surf event and there was some SUP and it was just like oh gosh
[01:09:31] you know it's I was grateful to exhibit and I was grateful to connect with people in the industry and riders and things like that it's it we are a pretty small community you know and
[01:09:41] it is it is nice to tell you it's all get in one place we are competitors but we are part of the singular organism in a way you know so it's nice to touch base with old colleagues and friends
[01:09:55] and look at ideas and see who's sharing what and it's very motivating too but because of foil and wing in particular a AWS i just had this new energy and last year you could feel it and then
[01:10:10] this year it was like it was so cool there was so much new gear so much enthusiasm we had killer conditions I mean it couldn't have been better and it went from windy to lighter to lighter to
[01:10:23] lighter which is perfect because then you can exhibit your full range of gear at what's working and we had we like seven we had six guys six of our team members came from Maui and so we were we were
[01:10:36] well represented and we had a lot of cool stuff to show and in the it was great it was a great event for sure oh awesome yeah glad it worked out well is there anything else that you'd like to cover
[01:10:51] and be you would like people who are brand new to KT to learn a little bit about more about you guys and why they should consider riding some gear that's designed in built in Maui
[01:11:03] I always tell you what else could I share I don't know we could we could probably talk for hours I love talking about this sort of thing probably you pick a topic and I'll run on it but
[01:11:21] as far as the brand goes what what I really appreciate about working with this team is the accessibility that we have like if you come to Maui come to our shop you can you can demo
[01:11:37] anything we produce anything we have in production even a bunch of custom stuff free of charge where we we want to we want to service our riders who want to we want to work with people to
[01:11:49] make sure that they have a good experience and if they don't we want to work with them and hopefully create it these are you know these these sports are not for everyone you've got to be an enthusiast a
[01:12:00] little bit you got to be a little tough to be a winzer for you got to you got to take a lot of crap you know and you got to be persistent you got to be persistent to figure out how your what foil parts you
[01:12:13] need how they go together where it goes on the board and oh hey out they're very service intensive products and that's what we what we love to do and you know we're we're we're developing so we
[01:12:34] work with big wins here in Hood River we've got a great crew down there that if they don't have the answers they'll reach out to media or one of our team members and we want to just have a very
[01:12:46] human connection with the people and the riders that are on the gear and we want them to feel part of this and also supported because you know that's that's what we do this for this is what
[01:12:58] enables us to to live this life is to create gear that we all enjoy riding so yeah I would recommend if you have a chance go to Maui come to the shop see what's going on it's crazy he eats
[01:13:10] doing gosh he's probably doing 300 boards a year or something like that between all the the production stuff all the I mean Kai is probably on Kai Lenny's probably getting 50 boards a year at this point
[01:13:22] between SUP and surf and wind surf and foil boards and you know it's just nonstop and then all the other riders and it's just we the boys have had have expanded the factory added machinery
[01:13:40] it's just it's growing in this this center of of development is just it's just hot right now so if anybody wanted to come in the doors are always open nine to two five days a week up in i coup
[01:13:54] actually I think we're open Saturday too and that big wins here and we're developing our U.S. distribution right now as well we've got some warehouse to go for it yeah we're got warehouse
[01:14:06] thing over in bingin and we're organically growing in Francisco got a big project going and bingin with potential warehouse for that but it might evolve I don't know but we're we're putting the
[01:14:19] pieces into place we we fully expect to be here in ten years from now and I doing what we're doing now so we're gonna we're gonna try our best to put the pieces in place to make that happen
[01:14:32] oh beautiful man I'm happy to hear that how do you find working with some of the year how do you find working with clients and some other of your of the writers that are on the team
[01:14:42] how's it yeah yeah you know every writer brings their strength in their communication style and what they what you know I'm so fortunate to work with this group and you know Kai we've been
[01:14:55] really down a wormhole on a new concept way of sale for him and we spent a lot of time testing together last winter and I've got I'm about ready to go to production on what we've come up with
[01:15:11] together and his needs are so specific his vision is so specific and it's it's fun to ride with a guy like him because he's approaching it in such a different way when we trade gear at
[01:15:22] hookypa on a wave day his stuff feels like it came from another planet because he's riding like super wide stances his fins are like can't it out like this the board feels like it's almost
[01:15:35] underwater as it's rolling but it's so fast and it's so stable and he's trying to do these certain type of hook turns you want to have a sail that's neutral and powerful at the same time
[01:15:47] because he's trying to ride in the pocket hit lips fly you want to jump all of these things and so you know how many prototypes we are in on this many many it's been a lot of fun working with him
[01:16:03] he's been riding on the sales for a while now but I'd say in the last year we've really started to takes time to get to know you know I knew Kai from when he was a little kid between it
[01:16:12] we're you can be together on the island and be in different worlds at the same time you know he was on his path I was doing my thing this is the first time we've really worked together and it takes
[01:16:22] time to build that relationship to to understand with the other person looking for what you can expect from the other person and in just what how much time it takes to get to a certain goal so
[01:16:35] I'm pretty stoked with what we've done and also working with Marcelio Brown is our current world wave champion and when surfing he's in silk they might want to ride right now yeah working with him is just he's just the most humble sweet, gnarly wind surfer like he's just
[01:16:54] the best to work with and we've done so many photos over the years together and it's just a joy working with him guys like Levi working a little bit Kai's brother ridge as well working with Otis
[01:17:07] Buckham who's like who's just here for a WSI and he was going off you know he's doing full rotations and everything on the wing and but he's 16 you know and it's like you know I
[01:17:20] noticed how is the wing he's like oh it's good you know it's like all right cool let's you know developing those skills of how to to present feedback and how to better help me with what he's
[01:17:33] looking for now so it's got a great range of riders and athletes that I get to work with I'm super stoked yeah oh yeah man that must be such a joy and a range of dedications and skills and life experience
[01:17:48] and even testing like that must take as a rider must take a while to be able to differentiate between all those aspects as well to bring you good valuable advice right like that must take a little bit
[01:17:58] of time too because not everybody's a good tester not everyone gets there either they they some guys like Marcelio or are you know he doesn't tell me what to do on the sales he tells
[01:18:09] me what he's looking for and feeling so I have to interpret that other riders will come in and say put this here and if I agree or I'm willing to try I'll just put it there other riders are just
[01:18:20] more like in the clouds and they they love it or they don't you know or they love everything I've had riders that love everything everything I put their hands they're like oh this is amazing I'm
[01:18:31] like really I kind of hate it that's a lot of things you know but they just that's just more about their personality you know it's just they're just happy and stoked and they don't they're
[01:18:41] not gonna beat come critical it's just not in their personality profile and that's fine too because the group is including I've got riders that are like that and I can see I want I've been
[01:18:52] watching these guys my whole life and I can see when they're when they're relaxed when they're engaged and when they're having fun I can see it within seconds of watching them on the water it's quite
[01:19:04] apparent okay so then you can take that back as well yeah yes yeah yeah okay yeah if the rider is ripping on the thing that I think I'd like then it's all good and if I see them struggling a little
[01:19:18] go back and retest and for me sales wins, masks anything like that I test it first all I've got 20 sales being delivered today full set for Kai full set for Marcia the O set for
[01:19:33] Levi I will I will at least rig all of those sales if not try to get on them the key sizes before I send them to Maui with her next couple of days these are sales for the upcoming contest the
[01:19:44] law classic and they okay any new design I test myself and that's going back to the roots of my process of learning which was building the sale every day testing it to a clock I can I can step on a
[01:20:00] sale and in 15 seconds tell you if it's doing what I wanted to or not and it's it's it's really important for me the feedback from the team either either validates what I'm feeling or
[01:20:17] will raise questions that make me retest again and make sure I get it the way I want it so that when they're testing I know exactly what they're talking about I have to ride this stuff before
[01:20:29] the team does because then we can speak the same language when we're we're in more sharing feedback okay so thank you to your mentors and to your shot which is he and building all that time
[01:20:40] dedication in right and then it's pretty awesome yeah yeah nothing but grateful for all of that experience there were hard times but here we are you know still in the water still doing it
[01:20:56] and I love I love the essence of what that KT brand stands for because the first time I went to Hawaii like life stuff happened I went to a serious near death motorcycle accident took 10 years to
[01:21:07] rehab and then when I went I met Sam Bittner at an event on Plottsburg and she's hey do you do you want to come help film PWA and I said sure like whatever I can come I just started went surfing
[01:21:18] so stoked but when I walked into there everybody just embraced me it was crazy you walk in they say hey how's it going here come check this out come meet this person come do this and here's a
[01:21:29] backpack and here's all the things you're bringing this old gear back to Canada and that's what's sunk in for me and that's why I started writing I still have like power wave sales from a while back
[01:21:38] and that's what made that connection with me and that's what a lot of people are looking for because it's like why am I writing when I'm writing I got so many options so that's why we kind
[01:21:49] it's awesome to be able to chat and get to know you guys more and get to see that whole lifetime of dedication that you've put towards something because just who have like four or five hours or
[01:21:58] whatever you have a weekend and you're like it makes your experience more full if you know what I mean it's not like you're just driving an empty car you get to drive something and you get to have
[01:22:09] that whole heritage with you so that's pretty clear you're part of the story is what it boils down to because that's why that's why the doors are open for the shop I'm glad you were well received
[01:22:18] sometimes things are hectic in there and people kind of get an ignored it was fine but please don't anybody who goes and you get sort of ignored just hang in there you know there might be a hot moment going on
[01:22:28] right sure but I said that's why the door is open is for this opportunity to connect and interact with people because we are all of my self-lawlophantisco keep we really connect we we we we relish these interactions because it's what feeds this story for us it's
[01:22:51] what it's what guides us and drives us forward for sure on this Jason well hey thanks for taking time out of your kind of busy day to chat with me today and I'm stoked to see you for the next
[01:23:02] time and try something new gear that you come out with yeah thank you for the opportunity to chat this has been a blast and yeah we got a little winter today so might have to get
[01:23:14] get out on the water nice all right cool hey enjoy the gorge and hopefully I'll see you soon all right little take care thanks everybody for joining us today