[00:00:00] Welcome to The Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing-foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. I'm a very awesome, pretty awesome, have you on the show? You're a big name in the whole industry.
[00:00:21] It's awesome to have gotten the chance to meet you at WSI and stoked a shot with you today. Yeah, thanks for inviting Luc. It's cool to be on the other side of the interview for a change. I don't doubt how long have you been running your podcast?
[00:00:38] I started it early on in the pandemic. I think it's been like three years now about three years. Oh nice, a blue planet show. Yeah, blue planet show. Yeah, I've listened to a few of them and they're awesome. Comprehensive, long format, kind of the same thing.
[00:00:54] And you're getting people from all over the world and sharing that stoked. So that's pretty awesome. How about your YouTube channel? That thing is pretty big, like you've been running that for a while too. Yeah, I mean, YouTube, I think we started it in 2007.
[00:01:08] Like that's when we posted the first video. And then I think... I don't know when I was, but I think probably around 2010 or 2012 is when we started posting every week, so I weekly video every week. So it's been a while.
[00:01:24] What got you into water sports at the start? Because you're such an advocate, which is pretty awesome. Oh, gee, I don't even know where to start. I guess my earliest experience is that I remember as like body surfing with my dad and
[00:01:40] my two sisters and just getting thrown around by the waves and just having fun and kind of mixture of being scared and pure ecstasy. So I just, like, I loved it. And I just always loved being in the water and just playing around like a fish. You know?
[00:01:56] So probably body surfing was my earliest experience where I really enjoyed that. You know? Oh, cool. Now were you born and raised in Hawaii? Where did you grow up? So yeah, my background, I was born in San Francisco.
[00:02:10] And then when I was three years old, we moved to Germany. My parents are both German. And then we lived in Heidelberg for a while, then Berlin. And then I learned how to win surf when I was growing up as a teenager and then that
[00:02:24] like I always got the win surf magazines and mail on the saw pictures of Hawaii people doing at Hawaii. And that was kind of my dream. When I was in high school and stuff. And so as soon as I graduated, I saved up some money.
[00:02:38] I worked at a far one and then I ended up in Maui for a year, lived in Maui for a year. I worked at a surf shop until Hawaii and Paiyam.
[00:02:46] And then I went back to Germany too to kind of start my serious life and started going to university. And I only lasted like one semester back in Berlin. And then I was like, I've had enough of this cold weather and stuff.
[00:03:03] So I went back to Maui and went to Maui Community College. And for two years, went surfing a lot and then, you know, and working in the industry a little bit.
[00:03:14] And then after two years I had two year degree and then to get a four year degree had to move to Maui. So I went to University of Hawaii and studied business. Got a bachelor's degree in business. And then part of the part of that, I graduated in 1993.
[00:03:31] And part of my studies had to write a business plan, marketing plan, all those kind of things. And that ended up turning into blue planet basically. You know, I wrote a business plan for blue planet. And then I was like, I might as well try it, you know.
[00:03:47] Didn't have much to lose. So I just went for it and that was 35 years ago or no 30 years ago and 1993. Oh, no way. So it's been a while. It has changed a bunch of things. But still doing it basically enough. Okay. So what did you start off?
[00:04:04] Wait at the start with blue planet. I mean, it started really basically with just I had a logo and a business card. And then I started printing some t-shirts. Had t-shirts printed and then came up with some more designs.
[00:04:18] And that's some friends artists friends that helped me come up with these t-shirt designs and clothing. And then I found a wholesale customer in Japan that were they did really well with it right away.
[00:04:29] Then they ordered like, you know, one box and ten boxes and a hundred boxes. And so that was kind of a start. I'd get started of the business and then but I ended up with all these extra all those extra clothing.
[00:04:42] I had a small apartment in Waike, and my bedroom was basically filling up with boxes. So I started taking them to the swap meet, which is like a, you know, it's like a flea market here in Hawaii.
[00:04:52] I had to a low-estatium and then to start design t-shirts and then we started making board shorts for men and women. We had some of the first board shorts for women, you know, back in the 90s. Oh, no way. And then in the low-hush shirts and more accessories.
[00:05:10] And then we opened our first surf shop a couple years later. And then we started selling boards and making our own boards. And then that became a bigger, bigger part of the business.
[00:05:21] I don't know if you want to hear the whole story, but oh man, yeah, I'd love to hear the whole story. I'm sure a lot of people in Canada never also would love to hear it too. All right. So yeah.
[00:05:32] And then, you know, then we had this shop on Maui for a while that had a partnership that didn't really work out that only last year for one year. But we started selling board-work sports, which at that time, it was called acne surf supply.
[00:05:48] So they were making boards and check us a little aqua. And I went over there and checked it out and they had pretty nice quality like epoxy sandwich PVC sandwich boards. That was really early on when those boards are kind of still really new.
[00:06:04] And we started selling a lot of their boards, like it was Steve Walden, Magic model and like certain boards that sold really well. And then at some point, Steve Walden signed up as a brand with board-work.
[00:06:21] So we had Steve Walden and boards and that really took us like early on in the stand-up paddle. Crazy, you know, when it first started, we were some of the, we had some of the first production stand-up paddle boards available.
[00:06:32] So, oh no, those were just kind of flying out the doors, fast as we could get them to. But then, you know, the business kind of, we had some challenges with C4 watermen and board-works.
[00:06:47] And they were kind of anyways, it just fell apart after a while of the distribution. So when that fell apart, then we were like, okay, now we can just make our own, you know, like basically as long as we were a distributor,
[00:07:00] we couldn't really make our own boards. But once that distribution ended with board-works, we started making our own boards. I think that was about 15 years ago. Okay. And yeah, since then, I've just, I've learned to, you know, use the computer shaping software.
[00:07:19] You know, early on as a teenager, I made a bunch of my own one-surve boards and, you know, been shaping boards and doing board repairs and, and Maui,
[00:07:28] I was doing a lot of board repairs and building boards and designing boards, so, but then, you know, I learned to use the shaping software design boards and then have them. That prototype made and have them manufactured and so that's been growing thing. That's pretty awesome.
[00:07:45] And, you know, mostly standard power boards at first and then, I guess when when, when, boiling first kind of started, I mean, it's kind of like to me,
[00:07:56] you know, early on, of course I saw the videos with like, layered Hamilton and Dave Kalama, toying into jaws with like snowboard boots and, and like these tiny little aluminum foils underneath and, and yeah.
[00:08:09] So, but that kind of looked like something I didn't look like something I could ever do or it's it didn't, I was never really interested in that,
[00:08:16] and, you know, when Kalenny posted that video like downwinding on the big, right, set of race board with a foil underneath it as a, like, wow, this is possible, you know, like, this is something I can do, you know, we're done, it's just ski,
[00:08:29] this self-powered writing in this way, so that was exciting, and then my friend Jeff and I, we, he had like a kite foil, that was totally the wrong foil to start on a super long mass, tiny, it's tight speed foil.
[00:08:45] And, but we tried it behind a jet ski and, you know, the first time we tried it, we totally failed and couldn't do anything, almost kill their cells with that foil. So we're right.
[00:08:56] Yeah, and then, you know, we're kind of ready to give up, but Jeff was just like, oh, let's try it again, let's try it again, we kept going, kept going, eventually we kind of got it where we could,
[00:09:06] we could, told behind a jet ski with that foil but it was really challenging and didn't seem like something I could ever do in the surf.
[00:09:14] But, you know, once, then, you know, once the goal foils came out with the, the kai foil, I got one of those early on and then, with that one,
[00:09:25] I was able to catch waves on a stand-up paddle board and, and surf waves and then right away, it started making my own stand up foil boards.
[00:09:36] And we were one of the first to have stand up foil boards available as production boards like, and we had like a huge weightless for the first shipment when it came in and stuff like that. So there was a huge demand for it in the beginning, especially.
[00:09:51] And yeah, and then that kind of grew from there, you know, the stand up foiling and then we were doing downwinders with the paddle, you know, stand up paddle downwinders with big foils and it was just really challenging to catch waves and stuff like that open ocean swallows,
[00:10:09] especially on the wide short boards that we had at the time and just kind of slower to foil, doesn't all that.
[00:10:15] So, but then, yeah, and then the wings came out and we, you know, I like the first wing I got was from duotone, the, um, it's called a foiling.
[00:10:27] But they only had like a three meter available there, like everything was sold, like I put in water really early and they said that would get me something and then they were like, oh,
[00:10:36] all we have is a three meter wing, so I'm like okay, I'll take it, you know, so then that's what I started on the three meter wing and we waited for a windy day.
[00:10:44] Jeff had a, um, a sling shot and then my friend Derek, I got a wing to some out forget what he had, but we all went out, you know, like instead of using a paddle, we're just, we're just going to do downwinder with the wing instead of the paddle.
[00:10:58] Without having, having tried it and it's so we were like, you know, my love shore and trying to figure out how to start on the thing and,
[00:11:06] and turn around and with the other way and stuff I got. So, took us a while but, um, I mean, Jeff and I had like a lot of wind surfing background.
[00:11:15] So it wasn't too hard to figure it out, but Derek had never used a wing yet and like no experience. So he was kind of really struggling and then beginning, but, you know, now he's better than all of us.
[00:11:27] But he's just a natural, he's like anyway, but then after that it was just like, oh, I love this and that's kind of all I wanted to do is winged for a lings.
[00:11:36] So pretty much since then I've been mostly winged for a lings. I still stand a paddle. A little bit of stand up paddle racing, stand up paddle surfing when the wind is right.
[00:11:46] And sometimes I stand up for a l or even prawn foil and toe foiling, but most of the time I look for the good winged foiling conditions and that's when I go out. I hope you're all in whereabouts are you located on Anawaho.
[00:12:04] So I'm on a wall with South Shore. I live in Ina Hina, which is kind of in between Hawaii and Diamond Head. So we got to kind of have a lot of good spots right here in this area.
[00:12:17] There's one really close to my house and then Diamond Head is kind of the regular spot that we go to. Almost always has some decent waves and fun conditions. Oh nice and when is the best conditions for wind there?
[00:12:32] So the South Shore is the best in the summer time. So you got long days, you got trade lands pretty steady trade ones and then good south swallows like waves coming from the south.
[00:12:44] So that's the best time for us and summer summers always a lot of fun here in Honolulu. In the winter it's better on the North Shore. Okay. So then the waves get good on the North side and the wind's not quite as consistent.
[00:12:59] So I would say if somebody wants to visit Hawaii to go wing foiling the best time is the summer time. Visit Oahu. Okay. And so sure obviously would be the easiest to learn. Yeah, the South Shore is great and we get good swallows here too.
[00:13:17] If you want to ride it some way isn't stuff like that. Okay, Lewis also a nice spot that this kind of has onshore winds so it's great for beginners or intermediate so that safer.
[00:13:28] The South Shore tends to be more offshore winds so if you get in trouble, you get blowing out to see you know. So with someone else or just be safe and sure you can get back to shore always. How did AWS I turn out for you guys?
[00:13:43] So it was a great show. So we did it this year for the first time. I used to do the surf expo in Orlando in September which for some reason they do them both on the same weekend or same week.
[00:13:57] So we can really do both but we have a pretty good clientele and at surf expo that always comes back and orders from us so it's kind of hard not to go to.
[00:14:07] The surf expo but AWS I just seems like the place to go where everybody's going there and all the brands are there for the wind sports.
[00:14:17] So this is our first time there and it was great to just meet everyone as such a cool gathering of people like every all the big names are there all the social media influencers and content creators like you and and then all the owners of the businesses came to you know like army armstrong and you know.
[00:14:37] You know all the top top. Basically the top dogs of the industry were there so it was cool to get interviews with like guys like Sven Ross Mccene of Starboard and and all the top top not guys.
[00:14:52] The key players and industry so that was really cool my my friend friend my friend for briefball from he's originally from France but we've been friends since.
[00:15:03] Back on Maui when we went to my community college and he used to be a pro win surfer now he lives in Costa Rica but he came to the show with me.
[00:15:12] And then a lot of people know if I'd resback from when he was a win surfing pro but he hasn't been in that whole scene for years so.
[00:15:20] He it was good for him to kind of see everyone and then he kind of helped me come out with some. Good questions to ask people and stuff so we had like five interview questions that we asked a whole bunch of people.
[00:15:31] So she's a content creators and then also the key players in the industry so. Yeah, so we got some good content to from that show. Oh beautiful.
[00:15:42] And you know we we I know it was like in the 11 day trip so we had like three or four days before the show of three three two days after the show.
[00:15:50] And we had good win every day so we were able to is you go winning every day and even during the show was good to win at that site too, you know. So oh yeah definitely was was your fun show and and good event. Nice that's awesome.
[00:16:08] Were there any is there any gear that you were releasing out the show because I know some brands had their their 2024 stuff and they were just putting it out to the retailers was anything new that you guys are working on or. Or had ready to release.
[00:16:21] Yeah, so we showed our new 2024 forward which are not quite. We we just got our first shipment of them but they're not even on our website either anything like that so we're still in the process releasing those but we have.
[00:16:37] I knew we masterboards and then we have a wing sub series that that's good for stand up for laying and beginner wing feathers and then we have is prone prone surf for laying boards and then also downwind for laying boards and then also the wing racer boards which are kind of made for.
[00:17:03] And then they went take off there you know of course you can use the downwind full boards for light wind as well but the wing races are a little bit shorter and more like shape more like a regular.
[00:17:15] It's a second longer version of our free riding boards and this is a great board for taking off early but going fast get it's a great board for racing a little bit more high volume. Okay, so that's what I've been using in the mobile k-race.
[00:17:29] I'm going to go to you when you're at the shore right. Yeah, I think that's the one we got. Yeah, yeah. So yeah and I think you posted something on YouTube about that too. Yeah, through that up and I thought we were going to be.
[00:17:41] Yeah, so a lot of people actually asked about that board but I don't have it in stock yet we do have it being made right now. So once it's available that'll be up on our website as well but that was kind of you know a prototype.
[00:17:55] I wanted to test before racing and stuff and I tried it a few times and I was like oh this is the future you know because.
[00:18:01] So a little bit longer it's like five eight by 21 by 90 liters so it's like high volume narrow a little bit longer gets on it on that.
[00:18:12] Get up one full super easy even in very light wind so you're not you don't have to wait for a gust or whatever to get it get it going. And as this really easy to use so.
[00:18:24] That that board is great and we're probably going to make a couple other sizes like a little bit smaller, a little bit bigger for different size writers. Nice.
[00:18:35] But yeah and then we have our what the wing master boards are really nice for free riding and our new construction is like full carbon with PVC deck kind of real light weight.
[00:18:47] So a factory that really high quality factory that makes boards for a lot of the top brands and so I'm excited about those new full boards and then the new downwind boards are really nice to.
[00:19:00] Yeah, what do you think about this whole new downwind trend and everybody's getting into it and. I mean, I mean you know like I said I've been downwinding for kind of from the very beginning and.
[00:19:13] Recently I kind of started getting back into it and it's so much fun once you're up on on the on on foil writing the the bump it's an amazing sensation. And it's kind of exhilarating because you have to work pretty hard to get to that point right.
[00:19:29] So but then like when you come off the foil and the winds a little bit light and the bumps aren't that good and you're trying to get back on foil and it's just not working, you can't get gone. It can be incredibly frustrating.
[00:19:41] I mean it's so humiliating and frustrating that's what and then you know if you have a friend that that's just like a little bit better. I didn't they're just like gone on their rise and you're you can't even get back on foil.
[00:19:53] I mean, I mean if I just want to have fun and I only have like an hour timers every couple hours then I always go wingfully because I know I'm going to be on foil the whole time we're going to have fun.
[00:20:11] And and yeah and stand up stand up don't mind fully thing is just definitely still a challenge for me. But it's something I want to get better at and keep keep working on and you get quite a bit of water time.
[00:20:29] It's definitely picked the right conditions for it. Yeah, I mean I try to you know it's so I'm one of I mean the reason I one of the reasons I started my business is so I can get on the water and have a flexible schedule.
[00:20:43] So I kind of have to remind myself I'm kind of sometimes get too caught up and work and then. I kind of my water time suffers but try to keep a balance and also of course family friends and have a little bit of a personal life but.
[00:21:01] Yeah those those things I always try to kind of find a good balance between. Yeah and fair enough and what's your training schedule like because I know that. Just to be able to like do incorporate and a yoga stuff any weight training aspects into that to make you.
[00:21:19] A little bit easier on the water or is it mainly just sport based. No definitely I mean I have like like my little morning routine I do like. I'm off breathing exercises I do like meditation and journaling and then I have like a workout the morning work.
[00:21:36] I routine I do 50 pushups every morning certain things I try to do every morning. It's a little bit of just mental challenge to to kind of.
[00:21:46] To do that every morning I could don't really want to do it but I just got me to get up and do it.
[00:21:52] And then in the winter time like you know if there's the conditions are on good and I don't have enough time to drive to the North Shore or whatnot.
[00:21:59] I will go to the gym so I do usually weight lifting but kind of only in the off season I don't.
[00:22:06] How like in the summer like when I've been training for racing and stuff like that I just try to get on the water as much as I can and I don't worry about.
[00:22:15] Weight lifting and all that kind of stuff but it's a stretching and my morning routine I do every day. Okay fair enough now you're 50 pushups you do in those sets so you're banging that out 50 and a row or.
[00:22:28] Yeah I do like I do 20 with my hands pretty close like more like my triceps and then I do 20 with my hands pointed in and then I do 10 with my arms really wide.
[00:22:41] And then the last few I do I'm really slow so kind of try to kind of get to almost total exhaustion you know.
[00:22:50] Yeah my brother and I we just started doing this eight nine ten eleven twelve and then back down the pyramid so he'll go and I'll go and his buddy from Ukraine just.
[00:23:00] He's a boxer so he's just his strength to weight ratio isn't saying so we started doing those just at lunchtime which is a pretty cool that will get to go and though. But how much is it comes up to if you do that comes up to 100.
[00:23:15] Yeah yeah eight nine ten eleven twelve get 50 and normally we can get there but the back in the mountain is tough.
[00:23:21] House food there obviously along with a fresh abundance of food it'd be cool to find a little bit more about how you eat to stay fit and how to be able to compete. In some of these races.
[00:23:35] Yeah I mean I'm 55 so not that young anymore definitely can feel like the other day I really tweak my ankle I got stuck in the footstrap and the word went over the falls.
[00:23:44] Kind of got in the white water and I got like dragged by my footstrap which was pretty painful and it still hurts a little bit so I've been out of the water for a few days but.
[00:23:55] Yeah nutrition is super important and stretching of course and kind of yoga type exercises I do you know part of my morning routine as well and then hanging from a bar every. For a few minutes every morning and.
[00:24:11] Nutrition wise I mean I like my coffee in the morning but I try to eat healthy I mean I eat a pretty solid breakfast with like proteins and everything like that.
[00:24:23] And then lunch usually more more of a lighter meal and then it a pretty good meal for dinner but always try to get like you know fruit screens.
[00:24:34] Try to eat grass said beef or or kind of the better kind of meats if possible and avoid processed food avoid sugar. And then try to eat as you know as much fresh produce and fruits as possible and I mean we have excellent like.
[00:24:54] In as papaya and greens here on a wall from locally grown but sometimes kind of hard to get it you have to go to certain stories like a lot of the produce that they sell years imported yeah.
[00:25:06] Yeah, so you have to go on going find that but definitely the fresh local stuff is the best.
[00:25:14] Yeah, fair enough. All right cool yeah thanks for sharing that because a lot of people getting into winging now or between let's say 40 and even 65 70 so they're always trying to find a different ways to either slowly increase their fitness what to eat to be able to increase.
[00:25:30] Their ability on the water and then what exercises to do like knees especially right like knees is for when you're winging because you're always coming up and down.
[00:25:40] Like I started doing these knees over toes lunges from this knees over toes guy and Instagram and me slowly working into some of his knee rehab like walking backwards and then slowly walking backwards up hills.
[00:25:52] And then throwing back into some those knee over toes lunges for me because my knees are just getting sore from popping up and down 300 times so I was sure if there's anything in specific. That that you do that helped you or.
[00:26:10] Yeah, so I haven't had too many knee issues but like for me it's been my shoulders my elbows on four arms so I have like certain exercises.
[00:26:22] My this is my there are band I don't know if anyone has like the tennis elbow right here that gets painful that's pretty common.
[00:26:31] I just doubt like these exercises where you kind of twist the bar and then let it off so this like a really good exercise for the.
[00:26:40] And for the muscles if you have that issue so I tried to do that regularly and then I've like my bands like for the shoulders I have like an exercise I do almost every day is what to strengthen the rotator cuff muscles.
[00:26:53] And then some of the stretches like when I don't know what it's called but like I sit on my feet basically with my toes pointed forward so that kind of stretches up my feet muscles in my feet and then I point to back I do you know the.
[00:27:10] Different stretches for my lower back and and you know just my hamstrings and just keep everything stretched out and flexible number. Yeah, especially as you get all that super important I think if you're. And basically if you don't use it you lose it right yeah okay.
[00:27:28] That is the active and keep it limber and stretched out and you know I'm kind of lucky to have like some really good role models like Jeff Chang my friend Jeff Chang that he's like.
[00:27:40] I think he's like 60 seven or something like that so he's more than 10 years older than me but he's still super fit and does everything.
[00:27:49] So I either really look up to him and Alan cadissas another great role model he's I think 16 now and oh yeah still one of the fastest guys around you know like beating the young guys and wing racing so.
[00:28:03] And you know racing is kind of one of those things where you know if you're older you have a little bit more experience you can afford the best equipment and then so you kind of have a little bit of a chance against.
[00:28:14] The really talented young guys that are maybe not as more impulsive maybe not a strategic thinking and stuff like that so even though they might be a little bit faster they might not get to the finish line as quickly so.
[00:28:28] It's it's fun to race with the young guys nice and do you find like I found I'm just turned 40 and I found that are the strength compounds a little bit differently than when I was younger.
[00:28:42] It's just a different feeling I find like and obviously now I'm not training is intensely so we'll go like slightly trained to but 70 80% before we train to 120. Have you found that as you progress throughout your career of water sports that it just slowly compounds compounds and then you're.
[00:29:02] The volume of which you can do obviously can outweigh some of these kids for sure.
[00:29:09] You talking about height right now 71 20 or what do you mean well I'm more just like physical exertion I guess intensity like even for lifting or even for other sports before I went to my 20 is I would push to like 120 physical exertion be sore for four or five days and be a wreck.
[00:29:26] But there's a lot of even for like I was listening to a couple other podcasts on training and they would only train to about a 70 80% exertion.
[00:29:34] But they would be so much fun involved in that that they could train more frequently and then they would be less sore and then they could add volume and then that's what gave them their longevity.
[00:29:44] Rather than exerting their joints to the point of training to 120 and being extremely sore over fatigue. Just wasn't sure just because you're 15 years old in me and the model role model for me so I just kind of curious.
[00:29:59] Yeah, I know that makes a lot of sense I think like you know probably the most said I've been was when I trained every year for the mole guy race for Santa Palling which you know is like a 32 mile race takes like.
[00:30:13] six even up to seven hours of Santa Palling on rough water so that that's like an extreme endurance and mental challenge you know.
[00:30:23] So I'm training for that you know in the beginning I did a lot of volume training and really pushing the volume and trying to get more endurance and stuff like that.
[00:30:35] And then later on I like talked to people like Travis Grant who he doesn't really train the distance you know he doesn't even train the full distance he just does his normal like shorter runs and trains for speed and trying to go as fast as he can.
[00:30:50] And then for the when he does the long race he just extends that before a longer distance and he can pull it off and but it's also like just over the years like yeah you know I've done the done it like over 10 times on the Santa Palli board so then.
[00:31:05] You kind of grow that muscle memory and and you don't have to train as much in terms of the volume and.
[00:31:13] And then you know you can focus more on like yeah like you said like training maybe a little bit lower intensity not not as long of a distance and you know try to go. Try to go fast with the minimum amount of effort and things like that.
[00:31:26] And you know wing for the thing I would say like because for example the wing the mole k race on a wing full board took me less than two hours so it's like it's like a totally different kind of races like almost like a and Santa Palli like a two hour races like almost.
[00:31:41] Kind of a shorter distance you know compared to the mole k race but.
[00:31:45] So it's takes like different training and different different effort I mean you can push a lot harder for two hours and you can for five or six hours you know and still have some energy left for the finish you know so.
[00:31:59] Yeah it's fun to get into the training for the wing for laying itself it's definitely different. Yeah I don't know like for me.
[00:32:09] I found the hard handles a little bit harder on the wrists and elbows and shoulders and stuff but the reaction to get out of the wing is is so phenomenal that it's okay, but for wing mainly for myself was just knees and then for some of my clients a teach wing foiling Vancouver Island and some of them there's just trying to get up.
[00:32:28] Figuring what the best way for them to get up what they needed to strengthen what they needed to increase range of motion wise because a lot of the guys were in their 60s.
[00:32:36] So it's always cool to at least get this conversation going in this sense that includes good nutrition and then it's this the whole rounded approach.
[00:32:46] I feel you're not just going to be able to wing for a right away if your hips and stuff aren't mobile enough it takes a bit of time.
[00:32:53] Oh yeah hips are super important to I did have sore hips in the beginning because I also don't like I don't know I still don't really switch my feed when I'm riding I just kind of ride my regular foot all the time.
[00:33:06] And mostly we're in the ways going back and forth in the waves and it's not a big deal that's just yeah I have more control but I need to learn how to switch my feet for going both ways.
[00:33:19] So 100% I agree on that the hot handles give you more direct control of the wing which feels good but it's.
[00:33:27] It's easy to try to control the wing with your wrist like twisted with your wrist and control use your wrist too much you know instead of using finesse like when you have a soft handle you have to use a little bit more finesse and get like the smooth handling and let the wing kind of like you know you're not using your wrists it's dear the wing you're using.
[00:33:47] The wing you're using the wing to steer the wing at or the motion you know so. I think it is more likely to hurt yourself you are more likely to hurt yourself with the hard handles so you have to be careful with that not to over.
[00:34:00] Try to over use the handles for controlling the wing you might go you know you always want to focus on the finesse and not so much power you know using force to turn the way our or to handle the wing. So it's good point.
[00:34:15] And it's harder to it's more easier to get injured and then for for people beginning I always like you know when you're learning to just kind of get stand up on the board and especially with knee problems I would definitely wear knee pads you know where we're knee pads because so you got some padding on your knees when you're kneeling on the board and standing up and stuff.
[00:34:40] Also a lot of people that start they they end up like really scraping their you know when when you're on the on the board and you kind of slide off like your knees slide off the board.
[00:34:52] The knees and the top of your feet will we'll get really raw from the deck pad sliding you know like basically get burns from the deck pad sliding off the board.
[00:35:02] So in the beginning you should it's a good idea to wear like lycra pants or wear long pants knee pads and even shoes or socks or whatever just to keep your. Keep your skin from getting all rubbed raw from from sliding off the board.
[00:35:17] Oh, yeah fair enough and then potential infections and stuff and if you're in a wetsuit country it might not apply to you as much but still still that kind of thing big time now just want to circle back to whim Hof.
[00:35:29] Well, how did you how do you find that helps you and what have you found since you've been doing that. I mean I've heard about it a few times but then actually actually my first blue planet show interview was with was with stage twice or.
[00:35:44] And I also if you had any morning routines and he mentioned basically went Hof breathing and then also journaling so I kind of picked up both of those during the pandemic and has become part of my morning routine.
[00:35:57] The whim Hof breathing you know just watch one of the videos on YouTube and how to do it and and then now I have like an out on my phone and I just.
[00:36:07] Just tried to it's just like two I just do two rounds of breath holds every morning and it's basically.
[00:36:15] And then you know I do it as I take 50 deep breaths you know like pretty quick breathing to super charge your body with oxygen basically you know you like over overwhelming your body with oxygen so you're kind of whole body is kind of buzzing.
[00:36:31] And then then you hold your breath and the first couple minutes you're just still buzzing from having almost too much oxygen in your system so then after that you start to then you have to just calm down keep your mind calm and your body calm and then these hold hold your breath.
[00:36:46] I mean I like today I actually held my breath for six minutes for the first time so it's 601. Oh, whoa. But it took me like usually I try to like one breath holds for four minutes and one for five minutes.
[00:37:02] Okay, so then you're super charging like your super charging breathing in and out quickly and then that's when then you just hold and how long could you do it at the start when you're when you just started your training.
[00:37:17] When you're first starting it's just like sometimes you can't even hold it for a minute, you know because it's just kind of the mental thing too. You know like you just your body wants to breathe and you just let it breathe.
[00:37:26] So then it's fine, you know like you just do it as long as you can without yeah just go as long as you can it's kind of a challenge but you slowly work your way up and and yeah the whim off.
[00:37:39] And then you just like it's like 10 or 15 dollars a year but if you're into it is definitely worth it and it just kind of keeps track of your breathing.
[00:37:47] It basically tells you what to do and you just you can adjust it the breathing how fast you breathe and how many breaths you take and then it times your your breath hold.
[00:38:01] Some pointers along the way so that's that's been a really good tool for me for the breath hold and I think it's definitely increased my lung capacity like I can hold my breath longer just because I have better lung capacity.
[00:38:14] And another thing I do is box breathing where inhale for like a count of three then you hold it hold it with your lungs full for three kind of three exhale for a kind of three and then.
[00:38:30] Hold you basically breath hold for a kind of three all right so and that it's just I kind of like a box inhale hold exhale hold.
[00:38:39] You know you try to slow it down as much as you can and then for me that's a really good meditation tool too because you have to kind of focus on your breathing and everything else is kind of drops away so you're just focus on your breathing and kind of meditate at the same time.
[00:38:57] And that's also a good way to train your lung capacity I think and your mental you know just overcoming that mental urge to breathe you know like.
[00:39:09] You realize you don't have to breathe right away when even though your body wants to breathe you can you can just wait you don't have to breathe.
[00:39:17] Which is pretty important given you know the sports that we're in right like you'll never know if you get held down a little bit or something happens in your board flips and your stuck under like these are important points.
[00:39:28] Yeah so and then another thing I wanted to mention to is like. I got COVID a couple years ago and like before I got COVID I was able to breath hold for like five minutes 40 seconds or something like that.
[00:39:42] That was kind of my longest time and then I got COVID and then you know with all the coughing and stuff like that kind of low long COVID too I'd like coughing for six months after I got COVID and my like I couldn't know my breath for more than like three minutes you know.
[00:39:57] And for like long time and it's just now like you know to two and a half years since I got COVID the first time is where I can really push my maximum breath hold again took my lungs a long time to recover my lungs and I throw like that is.
[00:40:15] This coughing itch itch in my throat all the time. Oh really? Oh so I'm glad you're glad you're on the other end then that's for sure now do you ever do any because I've seen videos of layered where he hops on in the salt bike.
[00:40:28] Jack's the heart rate up goes in breath holds or gets held down by a couple guys just to simulate it and I think he was saying that he was happy if he could hold for 10 to 15 seconds or something or.
[00:40:40] Because you're jacked up at that point have you done any of that kind of training.
[00:40:45] I have not but that makes totally make sense. I mean, yeah, if you're if you're breathing hard and using oxygen out of much higher level, of course, you can't you can't like you can't hold it that long, but.
[00:40:57] I think like what I tried to do now is if I do get held under like I don't write big ways like I used to but like I do sometimes go out and bigger ways, especially on a wing you know you don't really want to get work by a big white water.
[00:41:10] But but like if I do get held under, I just try to relax because I know it's going to let go of me at some point.
[00:41:18] And instead of trying to fight to the surface when there's when it's bubbles everywhere, it's very hard to get to the surface if you just wait a little bit relax and then and then come up kind of once it subsides a little bit because the wave will subside and then you can get up to the surface lot easier.
[00:41:33] What if you wait a moment and just relax and and always try to obviously when I always try to get a good breath before the next wave hits you know.
[00:41:43] But the bigger the waves are the usually the further apart there are two of the so there's like a bigger gap between the sets between the waves. So it gives you a little bit more time to get to the surface take a few breaths and then. Yeah, but.
[00:41:58] But yeah like doing it at the moment of maximum exertion is obviously, yeah, it's much harder to hold your breath at that point than if you relax and your mind is calm and your body's calm. Yeah, 100%.
[00:42:12] What do you what did you find that you love the most about wing foiling when you started? Oh, I mean, you know, I've been a wind windsurfer for like 30 years before starting to wing foiling so I think the biggest revelation for me was.
[00:42:27] All of the wing is not attached to the board. I can do all this stuff that I couldn't do on a windsurfboard, you know, like just like tacking on a windsurf board tacking is actually really hard because you have to turn into the wind and jump around the wing to the other side of over the mask and then go on the other side and turn so so in wing foiling I thought tacking was like super easy compared to to wind surfing.
[00:42:56] But just yeah, like the freedom and the power and being and then how low drag the it is once you're up on foil.
[00:43:05] It feels like kind of like you're on a skateboard or something like wing skating is kind of similar to that like when you're windsurfing on a skateboard where there's a very low rolling resistance.
[00:43:15] That's kind of what it felt like to me on a so the foiling combined with the wing is this is an amazing sensation.
[00:43:22] It feels like you feel like you're flying, you know. Now do you do you like getting into the waves or is it more so you like to ride the shoulder further out and just ride some bigger swell and like white water can be a bit precarious for for wing but.
[00:43:37] Yeah, like I said, I just I just tweak my ankle because I was hitting trying to hit the white water off off the top and then the board and so that was not a good idea. I mean basically.
[00:43:48] There's some guys that are pretty good at it hitting the white water with the foil and recovering but it's always every time you do that it's kind of taking a chance a little bit and it's easy to lose control of the foil so.
[00:43:59] Usually I like to find a way that's kind of not not breaking or you know or avoid the breaking lip and this ride the open face and this do like big roundhouse cars like to you know come around and go around the other side and make that turns and.
[00:44:16] And then just kind of carry this speed. Super fun I mean yeah, waves are my favorite if definitely like if the ways are good. And as I light off light offshore wind and clean ways it's the most fun for me. Awesome nice.
[00:44:34] Hey did you ever think blue planet would would grow to be like this successful when you were starting it out did you think that this would take you down this kind of cool life path that you chose.
[00:44:46] Yeah, I mean it's kind of funny because when I first started the business like I said it was like a business plan and marketing plan and add some partners that we did the marketing plan together and we're like.
[00:44:57] Oh yeah, in 10 years this will be like a hundred million dollar revenue's and listen now we had like this kind of revenue growth and whatever and. Of course we're not even close to that yet but. I don't really focus so much on the top line.
[00:45:13] The total revenues that I'd focus more on like what's left over after all the expenses are paid you know what you know trying to. I have a profitable business that I enjoy enjoy running and to me that's like yeah and I like I said the balance between.
[00:45:30] Work play family friends and personal time and travel and I love to do all that stuff so to me. Yeah, and grow with is not like the ultimate goal of the business is more like life my lifestyle and making a good living without working too hard for it.
[00:45:49] Yeah, fair enough that sounds good at bat. I mean obviously it's it's hard work to be successful in business you know is a no way around the hard work part.
[00:45:58] But you know I like I used to want to grow like 10 times from what it was like 10 years ago or whatever and didn't get there but you know did grow and it is much more profitable now and.
[00:46:13] So I'm happy with the where we're at now and maybe once a year I'll have retired and sell to some else and then they can grow to a hundred million dollars revenue.
[00:46:24] But I think yeah like if you're looking at just growth and there could be a sizable time difference and investment difference and the quality of life definitely because you put in time as well right it's not like it's five years you put in quite a few years so it's been slow and sustain which is awesome.
[00:46:42] So that's pretty cool. Yeah 35 years and I'm still like or I am again a hundred percent owner of the business you know I haven't.
[00:46:51] To take on a lot outside money I mean I've taken on some bank loans and stuff over the years and mostly pay them off now so it's kind of nice to just not have that pressure of investors or you know making long payments every month and this this and that so.
[00:47:07] To me that that's kind of almost more important than having this huge grant and I see some of the other brands that are growing very rapidly like Armstrong and you know and I'm sure they did.
[00:47:21] Great during the pandemic everybody did great during the pandemic but now foiling is kind of reaching a point I think where it's kind of starting to be more saturated the markets kind of more saturated and the growth is going to be kind of more limited so.
[00:47:35] And if that's your only focus is as foiling and you have this huge airplane in the air and you know at some point you have to yeah it's just it's I'm glad I'm not in that position where it's like.
[00:47:50] And operating I'm probably really thin margins or you know huge marketing budget and and big overhead and stuff I got so.
[00:48:00] And you know and then of course like army had to probably also take on a lot of partners and investors and think about to make that growth happen so.
[00:48:10] Yeah, it's just like I'm kind of I feel fortunate that I'm not in that position actually you're not so is that makes sense I don't know if that probably doesn't make sense to most people but.
[00:48:20] I'd rather have I'd rather have a small profitable fun business that than a bigger business that you know we're after stress about stuff all the time.
[00:48:30] Yeah, that completely makes sense and then you can focus on different board designs and all that aspect of things like are you the one who does your R&D.
[00:48:41] And then are you the one coming up with these ideas to tweak this tweak that kind of thing for new versions.
[00:48:49] Well, I mean we do I do have a few team riders that give me feedback like you let Eli and Derek are really helpful with the wing designs and stuff like that we're working on new prototypes and then.
[00:49:00] Just really detailed stuff that they kind of like and the way they like Derek uses the wing like with a why handle which is like a totally different way of using it I think.
[00:49:11] And I actually think of Derek Thomas I keep got to one of the WSL contest or what is it called the.
[00:49:19] You know the wing for world tour in the championship in the waves he would probably kill it you know because he he car so hard and and just cuts up the waves.
[00:49:29] But anyway, yeah, so those and then like we are distributed and New Zealand Dan he had that guy actually that requested.
[00:49:40] Requested like a longer narrower board and I designed it in the computer for him and then I was like oh I'm going to make myself one of these I'm going to make it even a little bit longer and narrower for racing you know.
[00:49:51] And that's how that that wing racer came about and um oh no and yeah, though as soon as I tried it I was like oh this is the future you know this is.
[00:49:59] And I think even for yeah for any kind of light lighter wind conditions, it's a great shape you know not just for racing for any kind of free riding and doesn't really you know like it's a foot longer than my free ride board and doesn't handle quite as nice but it handles still handles fine in the waves and everything so.
[00:50:18] You don't really need it at tiny short board to get good handling.
[00:50:23] Yeah, because everybody's going a little bit narrower and longer now if I've did big trend I guess now where do you get your boards made are you are you doing designs building that stuff in the Wahoo and then where do they where's the factory.
[00:50:36] Yeah we get we do make some prototypes here locally but um our factory has been traditionally in China we use a couple different factories on our full board factory that we're using right now is in China.
[00:50:51] And then we just we're just starting to make some standard paddle boards in Vietnam.
[00:50:57] Is a really good factory in Vietnam that makes some of the best best PVC sandwich construction boards in the world really you know I think better than Colborough or anything else so that's we we just started working with them so we're getting our first shipment from them.
[00:51:13] For now we're just doing standard paddle boards with them but in the future we might do a full board as well so. Oh nice. You know like in the past I've I've always oh and then we still have like some lower costs like entry level standard paddle boards.
[00:51:29] I've found that you know like one of the market segments special year on a wall that kind of gets.
[00:51:36] That's kind of underserved as the beginner marketing a lot like there's not a lot of good inexpensive equipment for for that kind of that beginner and recreational market that's really the biggest market especially for standard paddle boards so we have like a good line of entry level boards that's affordable.
[00:51:53] And then but now I'm really focused on like making like high the highest performance boards possible for the for the word vants you guys not necessarily the pro writers but like the guys that are advanced and they want to they want to best they can get for their money you know kind of that kind of thing so.
[00:52:12] For paddle boards accessories I just want to create like that really high performance equipment so where do you get your ideas from.
[00:52:21] Well I mean a lot of it is just on on the water trying things out and and then talking to other people and getting their input and then obviously also like a lot of it from.
[00:52:32] Yeah watching YouTube videos or reading the four online forums or you know getting like just reading what other people think and yeah.
[00:52:43] Back in the standard pal days I I used to be on the stand up zone for him a lot where people discuss stuff and I got a lot of ideas from that and. Developing things from there.
[00:52:55] Not so much anymore, but yeah I do try to kind of always stay on top of it and then my yeah the.
[00:53:02] And then you see and he watches like he said instead of watching movies and I do watch his YouTube videos and then whenever he sees something good that he thinks I should see emails me the link and then try to watch that and. You know so.
[00:53:17] Yeah, I mean right now there's a trend of everyone saying all these downwind full boards are great for like when wing foiling you know so that's so pretty new trend.
[00:53:29] But I feel like you know and I've tried that as well just wing foiling on a downwind full board.
[00:53:36] But they're actually designed for a little bit different use than what we're doing with the wing so I think they like the board like the wing racer is isn't even better it's like the next step forward from from using it really not.
[00:53:50] No, until for like they do in downwind foiling so yeah I think it's just always a progression and just trying different things and seeing what works and what doesn't work and.
[00:54:02] A lot of as trendy too like like I said like if one person makes a video about something then everyone else thinks they have to make that video as well and.
[00:54:11] And I think it's just a trend because everyone sees all the videos so they think all this must be good so I'm going to buy that to you know but yeah it's yeah. All of that fair enough.
[00:54:25] Yeah, so find the map and I saw one of your I think early on beginner SUP videos was one of the most popular ones or something yourself.
[00:54:35] And your website there you give a quick overview and a brief history of SUP and then because your your content has been really really good like you've been pushing that for a long time so. But you're some of the first ones putting at SUP content.
[00:54:50] Yeah, yeah I mean early on we're just all about Santa paddling now it's more I would say more about wing foiling which is my passion right now so but like yeah and it's always hard to say like we made like I think over a thousand videos that are on YouTube now.
[00:55:04] And it's hard to say which one is going to be hit and which one's not like the beginner instructional videos have like the our most popular one which has I think now 2.2 million views.
[00:55:16] Is how to stand up out of five minutes you know so that's like a good title and people want to watch it and it's a quick introduction to Santa paddling and.
[00:55:27] Get people into it and it's kind of a fun video where I wear like an all-hush shirt and then just give give you the point is really quick so people can but obviously you know if somebody really wants to learn it takes more than five minutes but it's.
[00:55:41] People think people are designed to think that they should be able to learn so many in five minutes. Are you finding this same trend with like wing foiling content as well.
[00:55:53] Yeah I think wing foiling is a little bit different but like early on I made a wing foil on instructional video it was called just wing it I think.
[00:56:07] And that was like super popular in the early days because there was like nothing else like it at the time there was no other instructional videos for wing foiling.
[00:56:15] But now I don't think it's getting views at all anymore so it kind of just died because there's so much other content now that's more current are probably better than what the original one that I made.
[00:56:26] So maybe it's time to make another kind of beginner and wing foil video I don't know. Cool yeah perfect setting for it. Definitely perfect setting going and going in demo or doing super well with with their with their show.
[00:56:40] I was just talking to Damian the other day and yeah they're taking a bit of a break from their podcast but they're so busy with other projects but it's pretty cool to have a bunch of different people just sharing a love and sharing passion I think that's what all of this is about is.
[00:56:55] Is that being able to share that passion with others who may it can make completely change their lives if they find winging like you have no idea the impact you do on families so definitely big thank you for you for for doing that for all of us for such a long period of time is pretty cool.
[00:57:12] Yeah and I think something that demo and when. really did to was the short form content like now that those you tube shorts and like kind of tick tock style short videos and so grand videos.
[00:57:28] That seems to be really where they were they're getting a lot of views now versus the kind of longer form videos but to me like if you want to really convey something it's.
[00:57:40] I'd to me just make sense to make the full video instead of just having like a the 60 second clip where you know but that's and I guess that's what people want to see and obviously seems like that's the trend this shorter videos with.
[00:57:55] Just like well I talked to Tom Hartman there gw he's the the to our manager there because I was going to put out a three minute clip of him versus a six minute clip.
[00:58:06] Just like just put just put the six minute clip out those of us who want to see or watch the whole thing the scrolls will attack take 10 15 seconds.
[00:58:14] But I always think of it now and we're not getting nearly as many views obviously as you guys but just to put it out for our target audience who wants to see it and then it's about the love and passion you put behind it so but yeah there is a trend but they're.
[00:58:30] I don't know if that really matters to be honest I think we can make our own and just keep chipping away.
[00:58:34] Yeah it's nice to have a short like how to do this move boom done two minutes that's awesome but it's not always that easy and sometimes you just need longer for sure.
[00:58:44] Yeah I totally agree and I mean I was surprised especially like you know when I started the blue planet show.
[00:58:50] I started with like one hour interviews and then I just kept going like if you know if there's an interesting interview as like why stop you know just keep going for it up to two hours whatever you know but.
[00:59:01] I was surprised how many people were actually would watch the whole thing you know like once they got into this like they wanted listen keep listening and if you're if you're into it as much as we are then yeah you're not gonna just like stop halfway you want to hear all of it right so.
[00:59:15] To me it's like yeah it's cool as long as it's interesting you know definitely definitely.
[00:59:21] I know you said you had to jet off soon right is there anything else you'd like people that are meeting blue planet for the first time or meeting yourself for the first time to know.
[00:59:32] I mean I always appreciate like when people introduce themselves and say oh you know I learn how to wing for on on your YouTube channel or whatever it is you know like I love all your videos and.
[00:59:45] And stuff like that it's always cool to hear that like especially at AWS I heard that a lot and yeah I mean that's it's it's it's a great great feeling to have that kind of impact. And it keeps you motivated to keep keep that going and.
[01:00:01] But yeah, to anybody on the water I would say just kind of be friendly share the water with everyone else you know not you know be.
[01:00:11] Hopefully with other wing folers but also respect the surfers and the canoe paddlers and the Fisher Fisherman and everything I mean there's so many ways to enjoy the ocean just.
[01:00:22] Kind of be inclusive and and make sure everybody can enjoy it and just share share the share the stock you know. It's also what I would say and then be safe you know try to go out with friends don't that don't it's part of wing for it.
[01:00:37] It's a solo sport but it's also very sociable thing like when you're setting up breaking down.
[01:00:42] And it's just more fun to share the stock with others and it's also safer you know something happens like we're pretty good about that like we always make sure the last person came in you know if it gets dark and there's still someone up we make sure they get in you're not safely.
[01:00:59] And that usually without calling the close guard you know. So fair enough.
[01:01:05] Well hey Robert, I want to say thanks a lot for taking the time out of your day today joining me on here and we'll have to have you back on and chat chat some more in the future. Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks so much and thanks everyone for watching.
[01:01:19] Awesome. Thanks everybody.