Episode #31 - Greg Falck

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing-foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport.

[00:00:13] I read, hey Greg, thanks a lot for joining me. We got some mutual friends on the island. They said you gotta talk to this guy. So here we are.

[00:00:23] Well, thanks for having me, Luke. Yeah, absolutely. So it's the fall for we always hope for good wind. Are you getting any foil sessions anything on the coast? We talked about it before.

[00:00:38] Yeah, yeah. It's the worst time of the year to ask you that question. We have like a dual-droom spirit where the wind kind of starts shutting down mid-sup canber and that our surf doesn't really start picking up an artist until let's say mid-to-end October.

[00:00:52] So I've just started getting the shakes and stuff like that. Loading up unlike Vitamin D and just doing other stuff, I guess? Yeah, a little bit of skateboarding, some squash, just trying to stay in the game.

[00:01:06] Yeah. Hey, Squash, this fun. I haven't played that in a long time. How are you doing that? I'm not sure. You know, intermittent labor for a while, but I just picked it up as like a fun thing to do to keep the cardio up.

[00:01:19] Maybe it'll happen. Yeah, I'm not sure. Probably not. Nice. Well hey, since we're talking about foils, let's maybe step back to when was the first time you ever hopped on one?

[00:01:31] So yeah, I got a Peter Letterer who was LP foils. I got a 720 kind of like that mid-to-day was kind of a high aspect height foil and thinking that would be like a good foil to learn on with a 110 centimeter mass

[00:01:48] and a big high-fall you know, kite pool board. So that was about eight years ago now. So yeah, learning in like high wind with a small kite just getting like ragdoll around but eventually came together and

[00:02:04] You know, it was actually a super nice foil. I still kind of look back fondly on that time just ripping around flat water with that board because you know the spot, comb-ox bit

[00:02:16] or you just got that glassy flat. So it was a great place to learn when it wasn't like a kept it strong wind.

[00:02:23] Yeah, for those who are unaware, you're kind of just nestling this beautiful valley surrounded by mountains and then you get to have this buttery little smooth perfect spot for for kiteing. How's winging in there? Is it doable or is it when kind of get cut off a bit?

[00:02:38] I think it's a, I think it's a really good spot to wing probably. I haven't actually winged in there. I imagine there's a bit of like lift from the wind as it comes over the spit so it's probably a little bit better quality for kiteing

[00:02:51] but I imagine it's a really good spot to learn to wing it. That's where most guys up there are learning just because you have this protected little cove,

[00:02:59] but there are no waves. So if you're of the kind that is looking to basically use the wing as a chair lift to get up wind and then ride the waves back downwind, it's not that, but it's a good place to learn basic sent to rip around.

[00:03:15] Yeah, there's a couple really good spots on Vancouver Island that are great. Like KnitNet Lake and stuff is one of the kind of a pristine places to learn. You got elevation kite school there and then also China Creek is pretty decent now with Paul running windwriters there.

[00:03:29] Even some spots in Vic overall, there's a couple like a couple of bays there that are pretty decent to learn in, but at least it's pretty, it's a, it's a cool island because there's so many different places that you can go and you get different conditions everywhere.

[00:03:43] Yeah, so it would be a pretty decent place to test out gear because you can get some good waves and stuff if you head out into the coast, or you can get perfect buttery flat, you get good current to other places. So that's pretty cool.

[00:03:56] Yeah, we get the whole gambit. It's like really good clean condition to just like messy trashy sloth which I actually,

[00:04:04] that's what I kind of love about changing like shipping from winging or serve from kite into a winging is I will prefer those crazy hectic gays because there's just when you're going downwind,

[00:04:14] there's so much to play with and like, you know, I love coming up with River where you've got just like these perfect swells rolling down but, and you know, you just totally get your fill of carving as hard as you possibly can.

[00:04:28] But I almost get more and after like a week of that whereas here and I need other places in the open ocean when you get that like more,

[00:04:37] more chaos, there's big waves and small waves, different directions. I kind of like that like snakes and ladders game of climbing through it.

[00:04:44] Oh, fair enough we were at, we got it to sand banks this weekend. So Saturday Sunday and I got to foil at one of my buddy's secret spots. And it was head high to a little overhead but then it was going along in the shelf.

[00:05:00] So when the waves, they weren't as kind of like a steam train. It was kind of wasn't break. It was just barely breaking like crumbling. So if you'd ride it for a long time but if you got too close to the shelf,

[00:05:09] the waves more to the left were breaking and then my whole foil would vibrate. So you'd feel like never felt that before because this bigger stuff so it's like the whole thing vibrates like, oh okay let's move over to the right.

[00:05:20] But some of that riding in there same thing. It's all broken up a little bit and it breaks on a series of shelves kind of thing these little rock shelves and then boom,

[00:05:29] there's beautiful little thing that's there but riding in those conditions compared to riding in something crystal, it's a lot harder.

[00:05:39] How'd you find that? Even just getting over like because they were head high sets, getting over that and then making sure that you dip down afterwards because it's like a four or five foot thing.

[00:05:51] So sometimes I had to hold my wing because my foil would come out, my board would drop but then I would just float a couple seconds and then land the side it and hop back on.

[00:06:00] I'm brand new to surfing stuff that big so it was interesting to get used to it.

[00:06:04] Yeah, yeah, I think there's a lot of different techniques you could use in a year. I would say year choice makes a big difference if you're running something that is tuned to kind of fly flat.

[00:06:15] The foil perceives those waves because there's flow moving upwards. It actually perceives that curve surfaces flat. So if you have a foil that's kind of like tuned with a lot of front foot pressure or you have to put a lot on your back when you encounter that turbulence it's easier to breach your kind of like come down off foil.

[00:06:35] Whereas if you've got something that's tuned to fly like really flat through the speed range, I find it's easier to navigate that because it the foil kind of like tracks the contour without active without as active but input.

[00:06:49] Yeah, let's fair. Like I did it a couple times when I was almost cresting as it was starting to break as it is too late, but I'm not just committed.

[00:06:59] Yeah, yeah. But for the most part it did it did fairly well like I'm riding an older arm strong F sorry version 115 50 it's just a it's the only foil I bought and I was like you know what I'm just going to get enjoy this thing and then when I get my another one.

[00:07:14] I'll see where it goes but it was it was a pretty cool experience though. Yeah, hoping that you guys get some nice swells coming in but no a to answer your question before and I haven't prowned

[00:07:24] It's just it's just been winged for a yeah 100% that's a good beginner pro and foil that 15 50 yeah yeah I don't know.

[00:07:34] Hmm, now did you ever think winging or even foiling would get to where it is now with all this acceleration and technology. All these new companies hop it in like I'm stoked to talk about you guys and why you're working on.

[00:07:47] Yeah, your products are just coming out now so. Well, I was in the industry at the like kind of at the very beginning of winging.

[00:07:57] So when I was I was big into citing and I was working for for Ocean rodeo which eventually became a lula on that new.

[00:08:05] That new fabric so I was watching winging happening and I thought it was pretty lay them on exciting if at the very onset because I kind of just saw like I was I was into surf foiling and then I was cite foiling and and then riding like you know normal like a strapless surfboard and I kind of saw these guys like just.

[00:08:24] You know cruising around and I was like well it doesn't it just it just didn't really fit into what I wanted to do on the water.

[00:08:33] It's not until I saw I remember who it was but I saw video of somebody downwinding with that and I was like he's just surf foiling with the wing in his hand and it was pretty early on, but it just clicked for me and then I kind of I started getting some gear together and.

[00:08:48] I was just totally in love and I think that's kind of the hard thing although I think there's been a lot of content out there that has dispelled this but in the early days it's almost like when you're watching people out on the water.

[00:09:01] It's almost as if you're watching people like you're going to a scale and just seeing the chair lift part. It's like. That's what you should call snowboarding like half the time or more you're on the chair lift. Yeah, certainly mostly just paddling around.

[00:09:18] Yep that's true yeah that's true and then winging I guess it depends on what discipline you want to do flat water ways whatever but yeah 100%. So that you're working in what were you doing for ocean rodeo.

[00:09:31] So they brought me on really early on when I guess trying to figure out how to like best summarize this but.

[00:09:39] There was a fabric project that one of the investors into ocean rodeo he's a canust and you know just a brilliant guy and he came up with this idea of how to better fuse.

[00:09:51] You know different pollen reforms to ultra and like in the way poli athlete and he brought it to the the ocean rodeo team and said like the development team and said hey like do you think this could make a better.

[00:10:00] And that first they're like oh you know this has been tried before I'm in the cops at fabric but let's see how it works and ended up building a prototype kind of like a really basic.

[00:10:12] Version of it and it was it initially it just blew people away so okay there's something here and.

[00:10:20] They had a head like a co-op student working on an initial kind of version to try to produce it a little bit better and think he did a six month term.

[00:10:27] They they brought me on as like a full-time guy to kind of figure out okay how can we adjust the lay up to the better for our application how can we you know.

[00:10:38] And more importantly how can we make this an efficient process where we're actually producing yards at scale and based on my like experience in the military running.

[00:10:47] Shopps and teams for for different units I was like the guy that they saw that could basically take this from an engineering project or science project.

[00:10:58] Through to an engineering project and then actually like hire team to to ask produce this stuff for the first or for other industries.

[00:11:04] You know the way so that's pretty cool that you got to work on on kind of that new so it's your mechanical engineer by trade yeah it's crazy it think that you're bringing in all these. I guess sophisticated kind of trades to come in and work on.

[00:11:21] These now toys that we all get to play on that I always found that pretty fascinating because coming from the outside you might not be aware of how much technology gets put into all these different things.

[00:11:31] But yeah it's pretty cool so that's awesome how did it feel to have that kind of contribution to in sports just with a little live that's not even talking about oh, and yet I mean it feels kind of surreal like.

[00:11:42] It's it's pretty neat we're seeing like some brands now like launching their little products and there's going to be a lot more of that. And so that's it.

[00:11:50] So, you know, it's still doesn't really feel that that real because we have this little little thing on on Vancouver Island where you know there's a handful of you know hardcore winners and fighters and surfers so.

[00:12:05] You're kind of just exposed this little bubble and sometimes it kind of I see like a magazine or whatever and it's got like the alluloing it's like oh yeah that's that's out there and some of the companies that you know.

[00:12:16] Allulo is engaging with outside of when sports and sort of really big names and some exciting stuff is so you know in the development process let's say oh that's cool so how did all men foils come to be.

[00:12:29] This was really just my my passion project so we're like I was saying I fell in love with winging.

[00:12:36] As I was working on these these allude fabrics and this was kind of how I was spending all my free weekends and and evenings where I probably should have been thinking about how to you know better. I'm a very strict the Asian at a large scale.

[00:12:50] But yeah this is what I was doing every weekend and the evening and you know it just I think it was an awesome good opportunity with a couple colleagues of mine. I've got that I was a platoon commander with in the military.

[00:13:03] It's going to a career transition and we kind of just decided that we wanted to start business together.

[00:13:09] I'm pretty like pretty complimentary skill sets he's a he's really good at logistics and finance and business planning and I'm kind of just a geek that wants to play around and make you stuff.

[00:13:22] So we we got together and and kind of just let's let's do something and and you know. 走了 was what I was most passionate at the time and my first foil wasn't LP foil and I knew Peter Lutter River LP foils.

[00:13:37] So I kind of reached out to him and just said hey you interested in doing a new breakfast and focusing on our and taking a long time to get. to get our first product in the market, but having something that we can really lean

[00:13:53] heavy into design and manufacturing, how that would be made in the US and be ultimately let the products be for itself. And that was something that spoke to him. So he signed on

[00:14:03] and that's kind of the outside anyway. Oh no, that was pretty cool. So then how many, I guess, how many years did you guys do R&D? And because I also read quickly that you had

[00:14:16] worked with the guys at No Limits? Yeah. Yeah. So that was, that's more recently. So we've been working on the foil for about three, fours and boards for about three years. And it was about a year

[00:14:28] and a half ago maybe, I guess so I guess a year into it that we approached Steve Meyer of No Limits and I see E, which is his manufacturing factory. And they had the No Limits be one, which we

[00:14:42] recognized at the point. So I got a really amazing mast and we wanted to focus everything we were doing as far as the manufacturing was concerned on the on the wing. So he was just a great partner

[00:14:54] because of everything he knew about and everything they were learning from V1 and their spectacular high quality manufacturing, their access to all sorts of, you know, claws that you wouldn't

[00:15:07] be able to get as a smaller production facility. So it just worked out really well that we got to and time-wise they were just developing their V2. So we were kind of able to work with them on that

[00:15:23] and have our own version of that. They're actually made in separate ememals. R is like it's very slightly different. We have a little bit of rake and we have the our foot is molded, it's like a direct molded

[00:15:36] on because we are too old when we have to compensate for our system rather than be adaptable to you know, all the other grants in the market. Oh nice. So a manufacturing is based there then

[00:15:48] they do the mass and they actually do the compression molded fuselage too. I can grab a foil. Yeah that'd be awesome that kind of worked through all of that so we could see. This is my personal setup so it's probably all, if actually it's not too bad but

[00:16:08] so basically our system we've we tried to keep things what we were looking very hard actually to to make everything as thin and as small as possible because we believe that the highest

[00:16:24] possible efficiency across the widest possible range is the key to a foil that not only performs really well in one set of conditions but will allow you to get out of the lightwind and big waves and just

[00:16:37] have this this diverse setup and an efficiency is key to that. So the fuselage we've made it a stainless steel and gone basically as thin as we possibly could and then this piece here which is really just stiffness critical it's not strength critical we've made out of

[00:16:55] compression molded carbon so can't really see that because the lighting but that's just that's basically this hex cell product that we it we use and they put that under it it's 12,000 pounds per square inch to make this like oh no super precise part yeah so they

[00:17:14] do that for us as well as the mast. Now how does that tie to is that all one piece or does that tie together? Yeah so basically the the wing and this stainless steel section are

[00:17:27] permanently bonded so that way we don't have anything interrupting flow or minimal flow interruption dissection here and also like a super stiff connection here because that's what we've found in testing basically the connection between your mast and your front wing like

[00:17:47] everything that's going on from here to the mast foot you could have the stiffness materials in the best construction but if you have any play in that you know you lose everything so we did a

[00:17:58] lot of engineering work to make sure that that is just absolutely locked in and there's no play and even as this connection wears like the carbon wears it's a taper so it'll just sit

[00:18:10] ever so slightly deeper and still the connection doesn't actually bottom out. It sits in that papered section there. That's exactly what Adrian was saying from Axis as well because I had him on recently and he's saying the biggest and most important thing was that mass connection.

[00:18:27] Yeah yeah. Okay so let's work down that so then you have the front wing mounted to that and then how does the other piece attached to your to your tail? So this is just two screws or

[00:18:40] hard to tell because they're black but they're just M6 hardware so our full release is everything is M6 on there's three M6 bolts that basically suck that the mast foot into the fuselage.

[00:18:54] These two kind of basically it's like a scarf joint for carbon tree and then you know that we've just got the standard 30 millimeter spacing M6 through the tail. All right cool and then so that's a higher

[00:19:06] aspect one yeah this is our 850 so it's probably going to be like wider aspect when people are watching it. Yeah no yeah the fair enough I guess it's a mid right? I would call this a high aspect

[00:19:20] both were foils are 90 spans so our 1050 I would kind of call like a mid high aspect and our 850 I think is it is a true you know high aspect foil okay so what makes that different then a lot

[00:19:33] of other foils in the market so I think it's it's it's a matter of I guess like from a fundamental respect to what it's designed for so when we're designing this foil we we rather than say okay

[00:19:46] we want a foil that goes really fast and is very efficient at high speed or we want a foil that has the best possible low end you can kind of shift your your foil performance in either of those directions

[00:19:58] we tried to do everything we could to make that as broad as possible so that when you're going slow you have a lot of efficiency when you're going at medium speed you've got a lot of efficiency and

[00:20:09] when you're going really fast you've got a lot of efficiency so because of that we don't have a peak so generally I would say when people get on the far foil they'll say it has the first

[00:20:20] comment is their surprise by how good the low end is but it's not as good as something like the progression project foils that are designed to have that like incredible low end like that's

[00:20:31] the main thing is just he's decided for these weak florida surf so whereas when you when you do that you you have to compromise on the rest of the range and that's just like a a

[00:20:43] desired choice of course you know through scale design and simulation and testing you can you can you can mitigate those compromises so I think that's kind of like fundamentally where we started is with the wing design is building something that has a huge range and then everything

[00:21:03] we've done with the actual system design has been to complement that range so going with like a really thin fuselage that makes a bigger difference in people think because generally people think about foil as flying like straight at you so when the foils flying straight the fuselage doesn't

[00:21:22] really contribute that much to the overall system drag because it's it's just about you know I mean it's frontal area but it's also a wet area but anyway let's for a argument sick let's say

[00:21:32] it doesn't contribute overall that much but the problem is when you're going slow the foils actually flying like this as most people have felt so in that case when you've got a thick thie slosh

[00:21:45] you have all this fluid moving over here and especially if it's squared off you get a lot of drag coming off the foil and then similarly when your foils starts going faster it'll tip that way

[00:21:58] so that's where you kind of get that that speed where it feels like a foil has a top speed because at some point you just can't put more energy into your wing because not only is the wing getting

[00:22:08] less efficient but you're now you're getting all that drag from your fuselage flying through the water like that I'm exaggerating of course but but that's the reason we we went with that really thin fuselage is again to increase the efficiency but more importantly increase the range of

[00:22:22] efficiency okay and then could we go a little bit into the shape and design behind your front and rear wings yeah so we kind of if you look at the profile this way the plan form there's like

[00:22:44] a subtle uh anti drill so that is kind of what gives you that like nice controlled feeling when you're rolling and yelling around and then the dihedral is what makes it a little bit looser

[00:22:58] so it's pretty flat and you know a flat wing is more efficient but we've kind of found that copper bias between getting maximum efficiency it's still having a little bit of that

[00:23:09] control surface let's say exposed to be able to get a really smooth roll um the wing tips are slightly raked back and that's again based on like winglet design for her prepped gives you a little bit

[00:23:24] less drag as it moves those different fortices back and rather than a winglet which will kind of which in aerospace is meant to give like like for a jet liner we'll give you efficiency at your cruising

[00:23:36] speed the rake wing tip kind of it works through a broader range of angles of attack so it'll give you increased efficiency through that kind of like low and higher end speed okay so it's same thing

[00:23:50] then applies to your tail yeah the tail is a little bit different in its design so what what we if it done here is fairly large um tail for the for the size considering it's a high performance

[00:24:05] but the benefit of this shape here is that it gives you this huge amount of area when you're going at low speed so it gives you extra low speed lift but then when you start going really fast

[00:24:17] you don't need as much of a tail because you get that angle of attack that gives you the down from your seat so the wing tips they actually has the tail flexes you change the angle of

[00:24:28] attack of the wing tip so you're basically getting a smaller tail at high speed if that makes sense so you get less drag because of the change in angle of attack of the wing tips okay okay because um

[00:24:41] well as I was talking Richard of AFS and they were doing their wings that are a little bit more flexible yeah that tip is well so they were planned around something like that so so what is that

[00:24:50] doing for folks at home so again it just gives you more range so if your tips flex off at high speed you it allows you to run like your tail like a little bit larger of a tail without

[00:25:04] having the drag associated with a larger tail at high speed because your tail gives you you actually get some lift from your tail when you're going at low speed most people because generally it's you're getting downforce from the tail when you're going really slow you get

[00:25:20] a lifting force so you get more low end and that's where our tail has like a blended profile to make use of that and then as you go faster and faster now it's starting to produce

[00:25:32] downforce because if it's shape and angle of attack and then when you go really fast you get the wings these wings starting to flex and it reduces it reduces the angle of attack of the wing tips like

[00:25:44] that at really high speed if that makes sense well it's technical stuff provided by an hex-streamed smart and tech-sourced so I guess we'll just have to look so thick with it nice all right so why did you guys go with stainless steel just

[00:26:03] here well we wanted to go with aluminum because it's lower crossed and more available easier to machine but ultimately we also wanted the the these launch to be a state and streamlined as possible and aluminum just doesn't cut it it's just not strong enough it's not stiff enough

[00:26:20] so it was between titanium and stainless steel and stainless steel stiffer so for our connection to work well and it had like that perfect fit we wanted the the stiffness of stainless steel

[00:26:34] and similarly here we've got a thin kind of spigot that goes into our front wing so we want that front wing connection to be really stiff in roll so that kind of left really only one material

[00:26:49] which was which was stainless steel okay fair enough now obviously are you allowing people to play with shims and all that kind of thing for the tail so we we have two tails and two front wings

[00:27:03] so what we recommend people that that first is just if you're riding the small like cake 50 we have our small tail pairs with that best and then for the larger wing the large tail pairs

[00:27:15] with that best and they both run with with no shim we do include like shim set with the with the foils and there's a there's a QR code on the wing so you can scan that with your phone

[00:27:29] and it basically recommends if you're switching up tails like what what shim to use like if you want to run the large tail in the small and vice versa to do different attributes

[00:27:40] and as we get more tails that we're trying and testing will add them to that site so that you know if you get a different tail like aftermarket tail you could scan that and we'll provide

[00:27:53] the shim that you could use to make that work with your with your setup I mean tail turning is something that I think is can be personal I think there's kind of like a right answer for 90

[00:28:04] percent of riders but there's 10 percent that are trying to get different things at other foils so they'll want always want to be playing with it and tweaking with it you can get quite techy with this

[00:28:14] and and make it do pretty much exactly what you're looking to which is pretty cool so mast yeah grab a mast here sweet check this puppy yeah so that's our that's our mast this is our

[00:28:30] our 87 so that's what pretty much everybody's using to wing we have an 80 and a 75 as well the 75 is clearly like a prawn serve or downwinding mast and the some of the some of the

[00:28:45] surf guys are starting to use a longer mass and some guys that are doing both surf and winging to get away with an an 80 for both but generally people that are that are reing exclusively we would go with the people go with the 87 mast all right now what

[00:29:01] special about this little thing I like the local by the way who developed that that was myself and and Justin working on that yeah oh nice yeah this is we spent a lot of time like messing

[00:29:13] with how to incorporate into our designs it's like it's such a simple thing but you can really you can go down a rabbit hole and like just making all these little adjustments and yeah it's

[00:29:24] one of it's actually something we both like both Justin and I enjoy from a design perspective like he kind of stays out of the the technical foriling stuff and I try to stay up

[00:29:35] so like logistics and business side of things as much as I can but we both like really like the aesthetic of kind of like a well-designed product from from that perspective so

[00:29:46] it's fun to to jam with that yeah makes a difference there there's such an emotional attachment to to gear and then what it looks like and then just how yeah it's a pretty big aspect of things so

[00:29:59] it's cool that obviously everybody takes that in a consideration but I do like the logo well it makes it special so yeah so I guess first of all is the the construction so we're using high-modulous carbon fiber pre-pray so it's also a hollow mast

[00:30:16] so it's very light very stiff and very fast so what the what the profile design for is to basically give you maximum efficient there's a concept called a drag bucket maybe I'll start with that

[00:30:30] so similar to a front wing you're not just conservative of drag when the mast is flying straight patchy you want to know what is the drag through the different angles of attack that

[00:30:45] that the foil you know with the system produces so if you plot out drag as a function of angle of attack on a chart you'll get like what's called like a bucket where and that's the kind

[00:30:57] of angle of attack where the foil is most efficient that causes the least amount of drag for for lift right so yeah anyway what this with this profile it has the widest drag bucket

[00:31:15] and ventilation resistance if anything that would keep come up with and for for I guess if somebody's getting brand new into it yeah so for somebody that's brand new into it I'd probably say get a get a low cost aluminum set out but uh somebody that's like

[00:31:33] their at the point where they've they've learned to foil Dave and they're like oh I want to go faster I want to I want to be able to catch energy from waves it connect things in

[00:31:42] pump around that's we're having less drag is gonna help you not that it won't help you as to begin or it's always nice to have have less drag but it really really starts coming

[00:31:55] into into play when you're going faster and I don't even necessarily mean like 30 miles an hour I mean even kind of like 10 15 when you're beyond that kind of just taxing around phase so

[00:32:07] and then having that drag bucket I guess it's two things like a mask can be quite efficient in a straight line but generally we're not going in a straight line um at least for what we're designing

[00:32:18] our foil so or which is free ride wave you're going up wind as hard as fast as you can because you want to get back to the goods and then once you go down your turn and you're trying to find

[00:32:30] different energy sources of that of that rising water to get lift out of to apply around and move so so through turning if you don't have a good well-designed mast you're going to be losing

[00:32:44] a lot of energy through that turn when slowing down okay turn off and for those at home who might not know what is ventilating uh ventilating is basically when you've got a foil that's piercing the surface so your mast is it's always ventilating sorry it's always surface piercing

[00:33:02] right and then at one point if you create such an angle that you get a negative so you're you get like this low pressure side here and that can suck air down and you'll get this sudden loss of lift

[00:33:16] happens commonly on wing tips so we spend a lot of time designing our wing tips says that when you breach the water you don't get this like suction this bubble travel down that has this

[00:33:28] like sun loss of lift and you fall have you ever felt that on your foil when you breach the wing tip yeah yeah so the mast is basically a foil that's always breaching them you know it's important to

[00:33:40] have front wing and a tail that breaches well it doesn't throw you off but you could get away when people people used foils for years that you know when you breach you basically fall but you need a

[00:33:52] mast especially if you're you know turning hard that doesn't throw you off so it's basically keeping it's a measure of how well the mast keeps the flow attached is that make sense yeah yeah

[00:34:05] does yeah no that makes sense awesome what's that little you got some beautiful boards back there is that what I see oh yeah yeah so we've got our full not quite our full range of boards but

[00:34:18] a good sampling so yeah I can I could talk about the three I've got here oh yeah that'd be cool so that's the four-year leader that's what I'm using for prone and winging in higher limbs

[00:34:31] I guess I can well yeah I'll show you the full both on first and then talk about the design attributes oh sure man yeah that's awesome yeah yeah for sure that would cool so this is my other board

[00:34:48] this is our 60-liter so that's what I use for light winging and then also for surfing if it's like really small or really crazy and big and lots of current I'll take the 60s well it the biggest

[00:35:01] way that caught I use this one and then the last thing I'll show is arcade 4 and this is kind of getting fairly close to the the downwind style of board it's quite long and narrow but it's you know

[00:35:18] it's still under six feet if the final 11 so it's still a wing board rather than a stand-up paddle board and that's 85 meters okay see yeah people that's been something that is connected with

[00:35:35] people from the very outset is our board designs how we're going for these like longer or efficient shapes rather than thinking like what is the shortest possible board I can wing with we're kind of going

[00:35:47] it from the opposite saying what is the lowest possible volume board I can wing with okay okay so the narrowness has a couple as a couple benefits to it so with with the 60 which for most people

[00:36:02] would be kind of like they're primary wing board first of all it's a lot more efficient through the water so when you're trying to get up on foil this board gets up like earlier than 20

[00:36:15] liter boards like boards that would be like 80 liters or above just because it has so much less resistance coming to the water um specifically that the whole design is what we call semi-displacement so

[00:36:26] it has a displacement like an efficient displacement haul that then moves into playing and starts getting lift from these surfaces in the back as you're getting onto foil um so yeah the other

[00:36:40] benefits of this uh of this whole shape is touchdown performance so you get this like really smooth clean touchdown because we could have we could draw that nose rocker longer and have that

[00:36:53] more gradual you don't get like a sudden stop when you hit the water even just clats off and then the other big thing is it actually allows you to run a shorter mast so when you're using

[00:37:04] a really wide like a 26 inch wide board you have to have a longer mast because um ultimately it's the distance between your wing tip and the edge of your board that you're basically either catching your

[00:37:16] rail or or ventilating your tip so by having a narrower board you could get away with a short of mast which just makes your whole setup more responsive okay all right so you'll be a bit more dynamic

[00:37:29] anything else I can tell you on the boards um I guess we can let people know that you're working do you want to let people know where you're where you're having them built yeah yeah I was connected

[00:37:40] with apple tree from quite a well back I was actually a team rider of theirs kind of like loosely affiliated let's say um with with cayenne um and they they made me a surfboard too which was

[00:37:53] pretty bad hello their surfboards oh nice um nice so yeah it was like a natural fit when when we started wanting to do boards to to complimentary foils and then they're also amazing to

[00:38:06] work with as a company for for for a company like oh man that we don't want to go to go to go to a brand in China and say hey we want to make we want to drop $20,000 per size on a mold

[00:38:20] and then get boards made like really cheap and get them do a big marketing push to get them all over the world they let you do prototype things so the prototyping is fairly low cost for each board

[00:38:32] and then we just order as many boards as we think we could sell so we pay a lot more per board and I think that shows in the the quality materials and craftsmanship that they're able to do in

[00:38:44] Portugal but it's just a different business model and one that I'm I'm more comfortable with both from like a financial perspective but also from like let's call it an environmental perspective I'm

[00:38:55] not like I'm not trying to like pump out like a thousand boards just to break even on a mold we can if we think we can sell 50 boards we'll just make 50 boards yeah I like that um like

[00:39:08] a head veaker there on the on the show and I like to story and and the way they were approaching this so it's cool to see this this kind of connection between two companies that are looking to work

[00:39:20] so that's awesome yeah and I think like what they've done like with their boards and with the construction it really it really connects with me and I think it connects with our Brad work

[00:39:30] because we've tried to do a similar thing like most companies I think would with use lower quality materials and compromise on efficiency in little ways to make the product more affordable and something that people would trade up in for a couple years whereas we're trying to get people

[00:39:46] more in terms of giving them a product that is going to last for many years it's going to either have little to have less foils because you can use it in a broader range of conditions

[00:39:55] and I think that's that's what Apple Tree is doing as well with their construction having the close cell phone and um there way of using vacuum to infuse the resin to create that amazing bond

[00:40:08] to that phone it's just it's something that you're you're not kind of buying something that's going to be disposable in a year or two you can use this board as long as you'd like and you'll

[00:40:17] be able to sell it as a really high quality item to somebody you know looking to kind of progress to that step your years down the road so so I like that as far as like building something that

[00:40:27] is not disposable like we want to build long lasting products that are are good and serve certainly know the thing that we're passionate about for years to come yeah that makes sense and

[00:40:39] that closed cell and like I did get the chance to try your board my buddy George there who loves up in call box got one and right away I just noticed this stiffness aspect of it and um I love

[00:40:53] that little paint kind of style you got going on that was super cool yeah yeah that's something we basically just stole right from Apple Tree like they've been telling tailed apps on their

[00:41:03] own their stuff and I thought it looked awesome so we call it we call ours this signature guano color little because we've got I didn't even notice this but we've got our bird and then my my buddy

[00:41:15] was looking at one of the early prototypes and he's like oh it birds shedding I have like oh yeah it is so so yeah I don't know what I'm saying we discreetly refer to that as guano it's another way

[00:41:26] oh nice yeah but I guess what a geese and I've been caught under some geese sometimes here because we're from Canada yeah where they take off I guess they're all over the world but anyways

[00:41:37] they always ship when they take off so I guess I guess you're just given us a bit more juice and lift that's another selling feature yeah you just get burnt shen all over it and it'll blend right into

[00:41:47] the paint those so is there anything else you'd like to talk about just those two because you had mentioned before that that your foils and boards are they're just starting to come

[00:41:58] out to the market now yeah they've been out for a couple of months both of them but they're they're both like as you said they're very new products so we're not going to do like some sort

[00:42:08] of seasonal release cycle we we best a lot into creating what we think are the best foils and boards for the niche of of winging and surfing in free ride like free riding waves

[00:42:23] so yeah this is what we got we found to say we're not working on other stuff to complement it yeah because I know there's a bunch of stuff like when I was talking to Adrian he was saying it's not just

[00:42:34] like the surface area so it's not just 1550 or whatever he there was so many other measurements and stuff that come into riding a foil because to get you up in later we end and it doesn't

[00:42:44] necessarily need to be a high number in one but there was a bunch of different variables there so just want to get your thoughts and feedback as well on there because if I'm coming to you

[00:42:53] and I'm like okay so I want to try your bigger foil if I'm 160 pounds what do you think I can get out on and just just on a low end and then obviously the high end you're just going to give me a

[00:43:06] lot more efficiency so yeah well I guess this is where I think I think about the boring foil as a system and I think people will probably need with our foils certainly they need less foils

[00:43:21] and board so that's often when people are talking about boards and they're saying like what's the one board I should get it's really tough I think most people are most of our barbedded

[00:43:33] suited to have two boards so that the common clever of our boards that I'm recommending to people is the 48 and the 72 for people in that kind of you know 180 to 190 range of intermediate skill level

[00:43:48] and then a lot of people with our with our system really just made the 1050 depending if the waves aren't kind of overhead the 1050s are very fast foiled very very efficient it doesn't

[00:44:02] you may think weird at top speed it kind of it just kind of like keeps flying straight rather than kind of having that behavior where some foils will drop out or really try to push you off

[00:44:13] it's very stable at speed so yeah that's I guess what I would say about where we where we went with the foils we think that I believe that people need less foils like I see a lot of guys there are always

[00:44:28] changing things out and especially the systems that take a long time to change that's kind of what I would like to get people away from is that oil should be something that you're super connected

[00:44:37] with and know it incredibly well so that when you're riding waves you're you're feeling what's going on through the foils through the system and then similarly it's almost feeling what you're you're doing like our logo in some ways represents kind of that and that it's we're getting

[00:44:57] and that's what we're really trying to recreate it's like this organic experience where the foils and extension of your body and I think there's a lot of like there's a lot of guys out there

[00:45:07] that are really influential riders and they have a definite right to be that they're on the water everyday twice a day and they can they have the time to develop that muscle memory and response

[00:45:20] to their equipment that they can just they can have 20 different foils and throw one on either just instantly going to click with it whereas the average guy that gets out once a week

[00:45:30] twice a week or once every two weeks I think it's more important for that person to have a consistent foil that performs across a broad range and we've we've that's really what we've done

[00:45:42] with our foils we've tried to make it through that person that doesn't foil every day that they can get on it and still perform at a super high level to kind of lower that barrier to entering for really high performance riding because that's where all

[00:45:56] the fun is right like being able to get on a tiny little wave and not lose any speed and be able to jump onto a bigger piece of swell shoot down and then like that kind of skate park action

[00:46:07] I think with a lot of with a lot of foils it had a really narrow efficiency band it's harder to do that you can make up for it with you know athleticism and just time on foil whereas our foils

[00:46:20] kind of I think about it as a cheat code to getting there oh nice yeah I like that and also the fact that you can stay with your equipment a lot longer which is like that's what I've done right

[00:46:33] yeah I've stuck with my original foil for now and I just wanted to A I just love how it rides so I haven't been I haven't hit that point yet for wind surfing or citing for other aspects

[00:46:45] of things it's like oh I need I need to swap this out this is now hindering my experience yeah so far from flat water to overhead swell to whatever it still rides well now I'm going to get

[00:46:58] to try more gear going to a WSI next year and all this different stuff and I'm sure I'm going to fall in love with a bunch of brand new stuff because it's getting older but there's one aspect

[00:47:07] of building like that and bringing that quiver along and then seeing what you can do so I like that concept yeah for sure like I think that's probably progress your foiling and is that you've

[00:47:16] got really locked into that piece of gear and you can just throw it around and I'm assuming like think you get how often do you get on the water oh when I'm on the island and the summertime

[00:47:31] for like June July August almost I'm doing nice yeah like all work all work remote from some of the lakes and I was given lessons that we're from re there at elevation yeah two years ago

[00:47:42] so yeah so it's teaching there so I get on quite a bit but then I just don't get a lot of bigger conditions so if you're an Ontario or if you get out to somewhere like hood then you can get out

[00:47:53] to plan a bit of the bigger stuff but I see all these lakes is just dialed down all the basics so the basics are so non-sensical that you can do everything and then when you go to the bigger

[00:48:03] stuff you're hoping that that once you get that chop and all that kind of wavery stuff and your heart's pumping a bit more you're hoping that that's gonna kind of relay to that and gear

[00:48:12] has a huge a huge part of that yeah so what you're gonna really dig and like not even talking about carfwheels just about what you're doing right now with your with your 1550 which is a great

[00:48:21] like I think that's something to keep in keep for when you learn to surf well but going up wind is gonna be so much better when you're on faster and more efficient foil because you'll get

[00:48:34] up wind way faster and your arms will be less tired because you're just gonna have like because your foil is slower and has a lot of drag when you're pushing the speed faster

[00:48:45] you're just gonna have that your arms will get way more pumped and you'll probably see it like you'll see some like overweight guy just like just hammering and it's like how this is how

[00:48:54] this is grip hand in hanging out for this long like you must have a monstrous grip like you probably have a higher grip strength than I brought climate right out from hanging on to that wing.

[00:49:07] Yeah I'm normally I can do two or three big up reaches and I'm gas like I know it's it's older tech and I'm like I'll be back in the island there in the spring and summer so I'm

[00:49:16] gonna come and find in I would love to try this out and do a bit of a review and demo on it definitely because I'd be pretty sweet for that but taking any trips this winter this fall

[00:49:27] bringing your gear anywhere to showcase it to people. All get around yeah we've got a we've got a new team rider and British merch islands so I'm pretty excited to get down there with him today

[00:49:37] I know well from he was a former pro-kiter with with Ocean Rodio a strapless freestyle guy I need like this name's Graham Hardy he's like just a super fun dude so we'll probably yeah no off-ground you oh yeah because you're an island guy too yeah

[00:49:52] so he's a new team rider of ours we just we just shipped gear to the BDIs for him and he's got a new a new job there it's gonna be working for Ocean you guys won't out his whole saying I'm not sure

[00:50:04] what's a public clip yeah that's fun but yeah so so I'm probably gonna get down there and do some filming with them I'll be in Laubbantana for sure and hopefully one or two more trips

[00:50:18] bit sprinkled in there but I've got to one and a half year old so it's all everything negotiation is first crash let's go you're winning trips first sure yeah but you're gonna have a

[00:50:29] young young wing foil tester in the family soon so I'm pretty sure she's gonna be into it she loves like gutter into swimming early she loves it and like I love going to the playground

[00:50:39] with her like we uh it's like it's she's so independent like she's able to climb the structures and stuff and there'll be like a four year old standing at the top of the big slide like

[00:50:49] crying and she'll kind of like try to like get past him to go down I'm just like I don't think it's like our act like our what we've done I think she just is like she just has that kind of

[00:51:02] thing where she wants to send it so super lucky in that regard as kind of a funny story my buddy in our in Maui years ago I think 12 or something and we were at this little beach and

[00:51:12] those is big like cliff jump spot and there was this six year old and so we're in this little channel right and there's like overhead stuff on the outside and she's swimming bias and my

[00:51:23] buddies up top it's like a 30 foot leap and she's like oh my uncle like I told my uncle like if he doesn't jump soon like he'll never jump and she's like chirping him on and while she's

[00:51:34] on a buggy board she goes out and placing this crazy stuff we're like we're not going out there and then she just comes back and later isn't saying just like the mindset and the confidence

[00:51:45] and stuff it just that the Vancouver Islands is a beautiful spot you get so much water around that you get so comfortable with it I think you're gonna have a pretty fun day with that which is

[00:51:56] yeah I'm excited for it man nice well Zerne thing else you wanted to talk about that regard like it would be cool to get to know a little bit more about your team members of who's working with you

[00:52:07] and just to find out that I think actually you might have found you used a washroom and come right back yeah yeah sure we can take a break yeah that's fine all right everybody we're back

[00:52:16] from our little quick break here we're gonna jump into just finding out like hey I want to know a little bit more about you we kind of talked a little bit about your entry into foiling but I'd love

[00:52:28] to find out a little bit more but you and in that where did your passion for water sports when it that start that started I mean I remember reading out a little kid and looking for it all

[00:52:40] year to going to a provincial park in Ontario where there would be occasionally there'd be actual waves crashing and just going out and getting tumbled in the waves and trying to body serve

[00:52:51] then I got my cousins had a wakeboard boat so you know as like a you know it's teenager I'd be able to go once a year go out to their their place and wakeboard so I was just loved

[00:53:05] wakeboarding and all the kind of board sports I had a skateboard and that and then I guess with water sports my first thing was a I got a job at a company called Wilderness Tours which is

[00:53:18] a raston company near where you are in Ottawa so yeah that was my entry into white water so did a lot of like big waves surfing with the in the rivers did that for for years started

[00:53:34] started citing my uncle had a little trailer in love and ta so went there and visited him he was telling the heat to keep me no wind surf but as soon as I saw people citing I was like

[00:53:45] no I want to forget that one so yeah I'd like a super super sketchy intro into citing like really old sea kites and just getting like dragged along the beach and all that but eventually

[00:53:59] eventually I figured it out in those early days and it kind of made it work but I was in the military like following that so it was hard to find and opportunity but to do it based on our location

[00:54:14] but I would take some trips here and there and it became still my my became a passion for me just just that the water and seeking that and so when I had an opportunity to get out of the military

[00:54:25] and have a move my wife and I at the time we chose Vancouver Island as a spot so that's when I got a foil for Peter so I was starting an into little adventure tour business PTC people

[00:54:37] to kite on northern Vancouver Island oh beautiful yeah so I guess that's kind of like that's kind of the brings us up to present where we're working with Justin and Peter to start this company and pursue our passion for creating a compelling product and something that

[00:54:58] will stand a test of time and get people access to that really high performance foiling that went otherwise be able to so if who tests your your stuff are you guys doing

[00:55:09] tape around or do on yeah that's it's all it's all internal we have of course like guys that we trust that like locally here and in had river and had guys in Maui so we did a

[00:55:22] we had a lot of different guys ride our stuff and get feedback but ultimately it's an internal decision what we've afford within what we what we didn't and we're so they're not just building and seeing how

[00:55:34] work to you know you know pretty quickly after trying a lot of stuff like if your simulation is is lining up to to reality right like you can make a you could make a wing that has really

[00:55:46] good numbers and performs really well and it might perform in terms of how it like the efficiency but if it doesn't feel good like ultimately we're all out there feel good so that was um

[00:55:58] that was a big thing for us is not only getting the system designed to be super efficient but it also has to feel really good and we also wanted it to feel really good right away it's not something

[00:56:10] that you have to grow into or no take a couple sessions on as soon as you hop on the foil you're gonna be in love that was the that's the design cool now nice yeah I'm stoked to try this

[00:56:20] so yeah I'm at Vic in the spring is super fun can we talk a little bit about your favorite spots down south and there do you go out to Ross Bay with the crew or yep I do Ross Bay that's

[00:56:32] like that's a common spot just because it's like 15 minutes from my house so beautiful I'll hit that when it's when we get that kind of like southwest wind and it's it's nice you get that you get

[00:56:45] that day where you get that tide wrapping around so when the tide's flowing in you actually get better waves because it's wrapping around the bay and it's kind of shooting out this point so you get those standing waves that standing wave train there that you could ride

[00:57:02] oh yeah and then when it's going the other way it's Ebbing there's a couple other spots like further downwind where you get like shallower points where it like the mixture of the tide and the wind

[00:57:14] creates some some nice little waves to this session yeah that's a beautiful spot the little kelp and there was one massive sea lion one day just a huge guy in there it's you're like very

[00:57:25] don't fall but the rest haven't seen an orca there yet so that's all right I've seen orcas would not bow winging we get the little elephants and stuff around too which you'd be which I love

[00:57:37] to love with it's not like their tropical places where you're constantly surrounded by whales but we don't have sharks so yeah that's true well I guess we do have sharks but not a

[00:57:48] not the scary type yeah fair enough so well if people are looking to a get to know about you more what's easiest way for them to reach out to you and your team and to find hell just obviously

[00:58:03] on the foils.com and we have an unenapered product pages we've got a little thing that you can ask a specific question on that product so right now that's going to me and then as well there's

[00:58:14] a contact for them so yeah it is that drop was a line feel free to ask anything about our foils boards yeah stoked to you know talk to your anybody oh beautiful okay well hey man

[00:58:28] thanks for taking time on a Tuesday to join us here in just introduce you to your brand and we'd love to have you back on in the future talk about more innovation see what you guys

[00:58:40] are working on and I am looking forward to trying this stuff out when I get to the on the summer. Yeah definitely we got to get you on the gear and then and then do a podcast to get your feedback.

[00:58:52] Yeah yeah absolutely every sweet no my buddy George is just raving about it and and and love the board and yeah I got to try it when was it I mean not so is it it was as maybe 20 to 25 knots with some decent little swell and the

[00:59:10] foils was big but the board itself was I loved it signed the concept so yeah thanks had to chat about it yeah I think like one thing people get surprised at with our boards is is the low end

[00:59:22] and I think there's two there's two attributes to low end on a board there's like the one people think about a lot which is how efficient is it riding before you can get up onto foils

[00:59:34] and then the as is the other is that when it's underwater how well does it climb up out of the water onto the surface because with most boards generally like a well designed board if you're on

[00:59:44] the surface you can ride like you'll be able to get up with proper weight technique so that's one thing about our boards people can ride a lot smaller than than they normally would in terms

[00:59:56] of volume so when it's underwater the board actually acts like a wing so like any surface when you're sinking this board got this big wide tail which gives you lift so that gets the

[01:00:11] board to the surface and then it's going really slow so you're getting still a minimal amount of lift from that but it's mostly displacing water and that's where this kind of like these rounded

[01:00:22] features make it efficient for for displacing then as it goes faster and faster you're getting more and more lift from which is called you know playing is when you're basically just moving

[01:00:32] along and always the lift at the board and you're getting lift from the soil so the whole system is kind of getting displacing less water so we took that that kind of idea and designed a board

[01:00:44] around that and the width of the 40 anyway in the 36 is really just set by the comfortable distance you have to place your feet so that really is what's what drove the width there and I also find

[01:00:58] for surfing like if it's narrower I feel like I'm on stable like popping up on a really narrow board so I kind of like this like 19 each wide for width so yeah that's really like what I think

[01:01:15] let's just get away with having less foils and why our customers that are have like the full setup are happy it's because they've got the 72 or even like a monster like the 34

[01:01:28] that allows them to get the 1050 up and just that kind of like 1012 knots like super light wind before there's even waves worth riding generally and then they'll go down to something small and like the 40 or the 48 that something that you can just like you can actually get up

[01:01:43] in a really light wind too not not 10 knots for sure but people are getting up our 48 and 12 13 knots so yeah that that quiver of boards I think works really well for for our customers that have

[01:01:58] had it gone that route and let's see really just have one or maybe two foils if you're having bigger stuff and want to have the 8050 because that's one thing that not a lot of brands

[01:02:06] are doing right because they'll either have their either board makers, their other foil makers or their other masks because there's some that are just doing masks and then they're using kind of different connection pieces so you can use it with all these but it's not often where you

[01:02:22] can go to the one company and get the whole thing and have that thought process design at working together like an airplane what I guess in essence like you're not going to

[01:02:32] have all that stuff made and built and just mash things together like the whole thing gets built for one purpose yeah and like an error an airplane like Boeing will come up with the overall

[01:02:42] design but it's all subdub like it's all subdub to different uh this is an company so for us part of the reason we only wanted to do a couple foils is I mean we believe in that philosophy

[01:02:54] of having less doing more with less but it's also we want to have the best 1050 and the best 850 possible like we want people to get on that foil and just be like this is way better we're

[01:03:06] not we're not spending money on you know sending people to hity and getting amazing footage to sell our foils we were selling based on the performance and the design attributes so we wanted to

[01:03:16] really focus on building and designing the absolute best and make we make that in our own shop on your hood river to make sure we have quality control and when we've designed it we take

[01:03:30] into account the layout and how the wing interacts with the rest of the system to be able to kind of have that holistic approach whereas with the mast it's amazing to have a company like

[01:03:42] no limits that is doing such an amazing work on mast that we don't have to we can have the best mass in the market without having to design and build the best mass in the market and similar with

[01:03:52] apple tree like apple tree did because we went half boards just because we wouldn't I know we wouldn't be able to have the best board on the market if the construction wasn't what it went

[01:04:02] what it was I think it'd be a good board but having then and all their experience sorting out all the problems like you know it's when you've really something to the market and you haven't

[01:04:13] really tested robustly you're going to have failures track you're going to have you're going to have problems all over so be able to kind of be able to design it and tweak the variables to make

[01:04:25] it exactly what we want but not have to label everything else it's allowed to do so much more so yeah kind of to your point about the airline yeah that's been a that's been a big win for us kind

[01:04:36] of step-of-the-use industry like sport is still very young but it's not its infancy there's there's people that are doing things right and we've been able to leverage their success in talents

[01:04:47] well hey like I'm just putting it out there if you need me to fly it to Haiti and test it some gear yeah we got some boys here that hop on a flight that's more of a pressure hey I could

[01:04:57] just use a I didn't use it for a place in the fetal could test some gear yeah that's true actually yeah actually yeah we're getting we didn't get what did I get this year I actually started

[01:05:08] surf this year because we didn't get a lot of wind I was there for like three four months or something but I don't know I'm just bringing them looking forward to spring and edlong beach and so

[01:05:17] chest remains of stuff I think it's gonna be epic we got some really good stuff there it's world class like you get so chest remains you get side-off down the line wave sailing which you get

[01:05:26] a mowie you get in like put us in Carlos you get another spots in the world but to have that accessible and one spot is pretty cool yeah well you gotta get down here regardless of the

[01:05:36] conditions because whether it's windy or wavy like well take your out and we'll prone surf like this it's a way easier spot to learn to prone surf like prone surf foil that it is into

[01:05:47] fetal because to fetal you get that like really quick kind of close out you gotta be up and like over and pumping out where it's here we get these kind of like mushballs that just go and

[01:05:56] you can get on and you have so much more time especially like yeah especially in Ford like like our 60 year like the other benefit of these in Ford side compared to a 60 year where they've tried to make it as short as possible you're it's really awkward to

[01:06:15] paddle those boards because your your's too wide yep whereas all our boards are designed to be prone for all boards as well as wing boards so this thing to work good point to note actually

[01:06:25] prone foil on is just it's just makes it so much easier than getting like for my way like unnormally on our our 40 year but this thing just didn't make it so easy okay yeah we got some

[01:06:37] things to test and try in the comments future try it on well look thanks for thanks for having me on I like I really appreciate having a platform for to talk about our dear and I love what guys

[01:06:48] like you were doing for our sport it makes it big difference like in people learning and like progressing and choosing equipment so yeah appreciate it man yeah absolutely yeah we do this evenings weekends whenever and yeah definitely appreciate to get to talk to you guys too

[01:07:07] who are like at the end of the day we're pushing we just want people to have fun and then this is how we have fun so we're just hoping to share that out to the world and and we need people like

[01:07:19] yourselves who take this chance to go out and try something and then put in some money RAD because it's like a lot of people will think that there's a lot of money that gets thrown around but it's actually

[01:07:29] a lot harder to do some of these things than we think like it takes a while to find investors it's difficult to set up corporations in this way and then to find to make these business connections

[01:07:38] and then to do that so kudos to you guys as well and stoked to meet you in person yeah this summer yeah man we're gonna well our logo or like slogan was almost gonna be we kick fun seriously

[01:07:50] yeah yeah that's a thank well cool well hey thanks everybody for joining us tonight and we will chat with you soon please