Episode Transcript:
Luc (00:01.014)
it's actually episode number. All right, fellas, welcome back here. Gwen, how was your trip across the country?
Gwen (00:16.782)
It was long, it's kind of... It's quite the mission, it's four days of driving from Florida all the way to Idaho, one of the best places to wing in a country that nobody knows about.
Luc (00:29.506)
There you go. Damien, how are you doing?
Damien LeRoy (00:33.643)
He's lying. He actually rode a bike across the country.
Gwen (00:40.59)
but made it, made it in the Northwest.
Damien LeRoy (00:43.179)
Good, excellent. Loving it. Florida's getting warm and last few kind of epic sessions of the sort of summer hits when it gets a little dull drummy. So yeah, trying to take advantage.
Luc (00:50.786)
Yeah, Mexico is still nice. It's getting warmer, but we haven't had a day of wind. And I think the season's kind of starting to do the same thing, starting to cool down, but swimming is still, swimming is amazing. The ocean's getting a bit warmer. So that is fun. Well, what are we going to talk about today, guys?
Damien LeRoy (01:10.059)
Nice.
Gwen (01:15.118)
Today we are going to talk about your first wing session. So, and I think that would be a really good opportunity to kind of like talk about our personal experience, how that went, maybe kind of like the expectation that we had and then versus the reality. Because the interesting part about like,
wing foiling is, I mean, when you look at it, it doesn't look very hard, you know, it looks pretty simple, you know, it's not like, let's say, you know, you look at like big kite boning, you know, for sure, nobody's gonna expect they're gonna do that on their first day when they hold a kite. But when you look at somebody just cruising back and forth at the beach,
you know, maybe somebody that's like retired out of shape and is still crushing it. You are like, if you are young, you're thinking, that's going to be a piece of cake. And you show up and then you kind of like get a, a piece of humble pie. So, so like out of all of us, w w who started winging first?
Luc (02:17.918)
Very true. Very true.
Luc (02:33.794)
Was it you Damien or?
Gwen (02:38.574)
The Earliest.
Damien LeRoy (02:40.971)
I think, I think I may, I think that maybe me and I was just going to start it with like, I don't know when I started that I would name it as my first session because first session was like three months of brutal one session put together, trying to learn, not knowing anything. but I would say that, the best part about it for anybody that's listening in, like we joke about this now, but.
you know, it was incredibly fun every single attempt because I could go out with anybody, anyone willing to try and we all tried, right? Like, you know, you could, it's like going to the gym. Like we all could go try it versus like Gwen mentioned with kite surfing, you know, you, you kinda, you could try it. We gotta be really, really careful. Maybe, you know, it's not as accessible to just try it. And so,
you know, whether it was blowing 30 or 50 or whatever, we tried everything. But I would just say that I think it's super amazing because your first times really, I would say you start with just like getting a wing, start flying it, and you're all going to do the same thing. You're going to fly for like 10 minutes and be like, I got this. Yeah, I know what I'm doing. Let's go into the water. That's at least that's what we did.
Luc (03:57.186)
Hahaha
Gwen (04:03.502)
hehehehe
Damien LeRoy (04:09.291)
And I would say, man, spend some time flying the wing. You know, obviously you can take lessons, but I would say if this is your first session, whether or not you're doing lessons or not, watch some videos online, just start playing with the wing. Your back handle is kind of what grabs the power and your front hand kind of guides where the wing's going, whether it's on the right or left side. And just play with it, you know, and really just play with it. That's the main goal is just walk in a direction, one direction, walk in a direction, another direction.
and just play with it and feel how you hold it with your hands, whether you overhand or underhand, whether that's your front hand or backhand, just play with it and see how it feels. I would say that would be a good start in the very beginning.
Luc (04:45.026)
Also, when you're, when did I start? I started Windsurf foiling actually. And so I started up with just this 105 liter bigger board and my first session, my buddy gave me about five minutes of talking on the beach and he left to go back to see his girlfriend and he said, figure it out, have fun. So for me, I was on a bit of a shorter mast, but.
Gwen (04:52.654)
When did you start? Look.
Luc (05:10.53)
Cause I was already used to windsurfing. So this is any windsurfer that kind of wants to transition into foiling. I found the process to be a little bit easier because I had, that mast connection to the board with a boom on. So it was, it was like regular windsurfing, just, I had to be more centered over the board. And then with more speed, my board would just start to lift up. And then if I was too high, I would put the mast forward and then my board would come back down. So my first flights were.
They felt fairly natural, but it was only going straight like in going up and down. As soon as I started to graduate into wanting to turn and initiating angles, I recognized how disconnected I was from my feet and how much your entire body now matters and your head positioning and how sensitive this little thing was. It was almost like learning how to skate on ice for the first time. It was so awkward and so uncomfortable.
And there were so many moving pieces and I had so many wipeouts, but it was super, super fun. And I think it was one of the best brain workouts and physical workouts I've had, even if it wasn't physically exhausting, it was just so mentally draining. So that's what hooked me in to try to get better and better and better. but I was a windsurf foiling, I think for the first season actually. Yeah. And then transition to wing was super easy.
Gwen (06:40.078)
So, I feel like one of the hardest part of wing foiling is the foil. And if you have not figured out how to foil, if you've never been on the foil in any discipline before, it's kind of like the double challenge. And so,
Luc (07:06.914)
Yes.
Gwen (07:08.942)
like in my opinion like yeah exactly but like imagine imagine it's almost like i don't know trying to like learn the unicycle but you you you didn't even know how to like bike first it's like it's kind of like you know so
Damien LeRoy (07:10.091)
It's a unicycle on the water. Unicycle on the water.
Luc (07:19.202)
That's exactly right.
Gwen (07:30.702)
I feel like it's nice to, if possible, try to break it down if you haven't foiled before to find a way to experience foiling where you can isolate foiling. Whether you are going to be e -foiling or toe foiling behind a boat. I feel like having that experience prior to going wing foiling is going to help. Now...
you know, if you don't have that opportunity, you know, it's not like you're gonna go wing -foiling in your first session, you're gonna be up on foil, maybe, but I would say for most people, it's not gonna, you probably won't even feel the lift on your first session. So I would still encourage everybody to like, don't let that stop you from going out and getting your first session because there are plenty of things that you're gonna have to figure out.
with the wing you know before you're gonna have to worry about the foil and one of the first challenge in my opinion when you're gonna go out is gonna be figuring out how to go upwind you know because many spots out there are gonna be like onshore wind so the wind is pushing you to back toward the beach which is probably about the safest option but
Then you swim out and your foil, if you don't go up, your foil is going to touch the bottom very quickly. And I remember on my first session, it was exactly that. It was pretty much straight on shore. And I had such a hard time. I didn't have time to get on my feet because I would always be back to the beach. And Harry, Harry the legend was there and he...
I didn't even know him at the time and he gave me a tip and he was like, don't get to your feet. You know, cause I was kind of like rushing getting to my feet or something. he was like, stay on your knees and go up wind and then, you know, get to your feet. and so that was, that was kind of like a really good tip he gave me, to like, you know, not, not, not.
Gwen (09:53.678)
rush the steps to get to your feet and try to get up on foot or whatever but you know just to make sure you you are able to right when you start from getting up on on the burn getting to your knees try to figure out how to direct your your burn in a direction that you know you are going where you want to go not where the wind is pushing you and i feel like that would be a good first step because you you have a
You build a bit more like confidence about like, okay, I'm able to go where I want to go, you know, rather than like ending up wherever the wind is pushing me.
Luc (10:25.986)
Yeah, that's it.
No, I think that's a pretty good point. And then to back that up a little bit, like Damien, we were talking about just before the call it's what kind of condition should I be looking at? What kind of beach should I be looking at? Like I was fortunate enough to learn on West Lake near in like Ontario, where it was about three and a half feet deep and the whole Bay was super soft sand. And therefore it didn't, I didn't have to worry as much about.
Damien LeRoy (10:34.827)
Yeah, I mean... Yeah, go ahead.
Luc (10:59.394)
getting stuck overhead and then not knowing how to get back or not knowing anything or getting blown like I could walk back, which is ideal. And that doesn't happen for everybody. But what do we think about just wind condition and just those kinds of basics? Cause if it's like, if you got your kit and you're just like, okay, I'm ready to go out. What we talked about different things before, but this is more specific.
Damien LeRoy (11:33.003)
Yeah, I mean, I think diving into it, you know, when you walk down there, I think truly you should be looking at the cams, the radars, the knowledge of your area, ask around, ask anybody whether they kitesurf, windsurf, anything with wind powered, that's going to give you a local shop or, and if you're that gentleman or woman that's in the spot with nobody around, you're definitely going to do some trial and error and learn as you go, which is totally fine.
But I would say I think Zane Schweitzer had it the best in an interview we did a long time ago. But just show up at the beach and do kind of an assessment and look all the way up and down the beach, the lake, the intercoastal, wherever you're at. And look at like, OK, if the wind's on shore, I'm going to have to get away from the shore to be able to try to do this. If the wind's side shore, I'm going to go.
usually with the wind when you're learning. So you're going to end up going with it. So if it's side shore, like what's downwind of me, what am I going to run into? What are the, you know, where's my out? So I want to go to here and then get out. How do I get out with the wing? So like, I was just going to tap off of kind of what Gwen was saying about, you know, your first steps is like maybe just winging on your knees and going up wind. Totally agree with that. And I would say even the first step right before that is when you get in the water, like,
flip your wing around, like put it in the water because you got to figure out how to get it back in your hands and play with it. On land, it's different, it's really easy to flip it around and put it back in your hands. But the second it sticks to the water and the board's moving around, another hurdle. So play with that, whether you're close to the shore so that you can kind of get an idea of like how to flip it because likely you're going to crash it.
And that's like that part. But I'd say, assess your conditions. I'd say you're always going to go out. 99 % of the people go out in less wind than they really need. Because when it's really windy, it's usually choppy and it's maybe a little more intimidating or maybe the board, they're nervous, it's really windy. But I would say in general, again, with what Gwen was saying, don't worry about foiling.
Luc (13:50.594)
Hmm.
Damien LeRoy (13:57.995)
like worry about, you can go out in super light winds, ride on your knees, learn how to have the wing above you and slowly work on crabbing up wind and all that leads to you being an incredible winger, fast. So I would say if anything, don't even worry about foil and work on trying to stay in one spot, flying the wing, try not to crash it all the time, but that would kind of be like the first steps in my eyes.
Luc (14:16.226)
Yeah, that's a really good point, Damien. Cause even entering into windsurfing, it was like eight knots or something for myself. And it was just learning the very, very basics in a very, very safe area. Try not to go out in waves, try not to go out where there's exposed like places where you could get in trouble. But even if it's just enough to hold your wing up and then you start taxing, I guess you start taxing up wind down wind. What does what, what does this? And then you can then figure out your next steps, but Gwen, take it from there.
Gwen (14:54.734)
Yeah, well, you know, I feel like also it's important to like not kind of like rush through the steps. Like, you know, like let's say, you know, you have that expectation that, you know, getting up on foil, but, you know, take your time getting to that stage because the more you rush and the more you're going to fall,
and you're going to burn yourself out. So, because every time you fall and your wing flips and now you have to get back on the burn and flip your wing, you are drifting downwind. It's like, it's taking energy out of you and it's making you drift downwind. And now you are maybe like going to have to walk back. So not rushing through the steps, you know, meaning, you know, I'm sitting on my burn. I get to my feet, to my knees.
I get one foot up, I'm on my feet. Not like go, I remember for me, I was like, I thought you had to get to your feet as quickly as possible. And so I felt like a million times and sure, I mean, it's part of the learning process, but looking back, if you take your time, you don't get as tired as quickly because all of that is like just very taxing. So.
Luc (15:57.026)
Hmm.
Gwen (16:19.662)
I would say not rush through the steps and if the steps would be I get on the burn, I get to my knees, I'm pointing upwind, I'm putting one foot front foot up, still pointing upwind, back foot up, still pointing upwind, closing upwind, I would say that would be the process until you can maybe consider getting up on foil if you have enough wind or whatever. But...
I like to keep that process like in check and if one of those is missing, like let's say you get to your knees, you are pointing up wind, you get one foot up, you start pointing now in, don't go any further. Like don't keep going, fix that first. You know, keep your maybe one foot up, but figure out how to point up wind before you rush to your feet and now you fall. So in my opinion, it's like, don't, yeah.
Don't rush and then, yeah, that would be.
Luc (17:17.49)
Hahaha.
Damien LeRoy (17:23.307)
What we're really saying is we can't help you, but we're having this to try to just throw ideas at you. No, I think another really good one, Gwen, is, you know, a lot of people fly the wing on the beach and they just stand there and fly. Excuse me. They fly the wing on the beach, just standing there, man, get on your knees because you're going to realize the difference between standing and then when you're on the knees and you have to fly that wing on your board and learn how to crab it. So.
Don't be afraid, like Gwen saying, is like take your time and just put the board without the foil on it on the ground. Where am I going to sit on it? Where are my knees going to go? And do that because you're much shorter to the water line. So wing tips will catch you easier. And these are those things a lot of times you forget because it's kind of easy to stand on the beach and have a lot of control with the wing.
Luc (18:06.882)
Yeah, that's really true. And what I found when I was giving some lessons is I would just say, go and kneel on your board or sit on your board in the water and see where your balance points are. And then like kneeling, so taxing, kneeling and learning how to bring your wind, your wing in as an engine to bring you back home. I think that's one of your, cause what happens if you get out there and the wind picks up to let's say 30 knots and you can't get home on your feet? Well,
It's best to practice kneeling and taxing around to come in and come out as your first step. So then you can save yourself in that situation or if it's too sweaty or if something happens or so like breaking it down and trying to master step number one, step number two, like, like I think both of you guys are saying it's pretty critical and those steps will compound like your skill will compound.
especially when you get up to standing, because if your wing control is better when you're on your knees and you figured out how to not let your wing tip hit, well, it's going to be 10 times easier when you stand up because you have so much more room. so yeah, those are, those are some pretty good points.
Luc (19:20.706)
And boom.
Gwen (19:21.39)
Yeah, something that, you know, everybody has a different like confidence level. Some people are like, have like zero fear and just going to go out and then, and then maybe they ended up way too far or whatever. And some people are like very scared and as soon as after a few seconds, they want to turn around already. So, you kind of like have to like, you know, work with that. you know, if you have a lot of fear.
then just go step by step. But also if you are fearless and you have a lot of confidence, that's also when things can actually go wrong. So just like you said, Damien, kind of assess the situation and have a plan. I think if you have a plan when the wind picked up or the wind died and we are not able to...
Luc (20:11.138)
Hmm.
Gwen (20:15.822)
Come back to where you were supposed to go You know, but if you thought about it, alright, this is where I'm gonna end up no big deal. Maybe I'm gonna end up on this part of the the shore and I'm gonna leave my gear there and I'm gonna walk back to where I started go get the van or whatever or have a an eyewatch and I can call, you know somebody like if you have a plan you are less likely to have a bad experience and that maybe like would
kind of like ruin your process and be like, this is not for me. You know, often I would say it's, I see more people being like more scared than, than, than anything. And so often we think it's a big deal. If, you know, if I go and I can't come back, you know, like I'm going to need a rescue helicopter or whatever. And actually it's like, no, okay. It's a different beach. I put my gear here and I walk back.
Luc (21:07.554)
Mm -hmm.
Gwen (21:15.342)
And it's fine. So as soon as I, as long as like you can make a plan of like, if something doesn't go the way you were thinking it would, but I'm still going to be fine. Then I think that would be very helpful. Yeah, that would be something that I see quite a bit.
Damien LeRoy (21:37.291)
And the only thing I would add to all that is, you know, when you're first trying this from experience, I would say that I see a lot and I would say it's a normal common thing. And that is, if let's just say I keep going to this beach every day and I'm trying conditions are similar. I'm usually always trying one direction out to try to get going. Right. And that may or may not be everybody has a good direction or confident or a
dominant direction. So know that if that third day comes and I'm like jamming or I'm feeling it, know that be careful on how far you go out because you may be swimming back because that other direction may just become super different. So, you know, try to do both directions if you can as much as you can is pretty much what I would say, which is hard sometimes, but really try to.
Luc (22:10.178)
Fair truth.
Luc (22:35.97)
That's a very good point because I've seen this a lot in lessons and I'm sure Gwen, you have too. It's, it's let's say right arm forward or right leg forward is super easy, but as soon as they go the opposite, the wing just magically flips and we can't get that same control and power and feel and, and then body angles change and they don't know where to look and we don't know where to look. And so all that, that's a huge point. Definitely. So we're looking at.
Damien LeRoy (22:36.011)
you know, do both and, you know, motor muscles will learn both directions. And, and I'd say that's a helpful little tip for when you're trying.
Luc (23:03.266)
from wind, how much wind to start off in, and then the beach safety. And then I guess just trying to make sure that you enjoy the learning steps as much as possible. Some people fly through it in three hours. Some people fly through it in a year. I have some clients that are still working on getting up and it's been two years and they're in their seventies and they absolutely love taxing around. They said this year we mastered taxing on our feet upwind. And that was huge for them.
So that was a big step for them and they were perfectly happy about that. And there's others that'll be doing these backflips within three weeks and that's okay too. But I think enjoy the process of learning and I think master all these little baby steps because that's what helps you become the best rider you can be. And any pro on tour, for example, will have mastered every single one of these little baby steps. I don't know if you become...
a fine tuned rider, unless you do the repetition of just the basics. And, and I think that's so you don't necessarily need, like, if you're going to go off and just do it on your own, then break down your skills. And this is how I do it in my mind is I'll break down the things that I need to accomplish in order to do X skill. And I just break it down into 15 steps. So you can take some of the knowledge you get from this episode, write it down. Here's some of the highlights.
and then just break it down and just send us a DM on Instagram or something and let us know. I said, hey, what do you think of these steps and where am I at for that? Or send us a video because engaging yourself in that learning process for yourself helps you fall in love with it even more, right? So, yeah.
Gwen (24:52.654)
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like, you know, I like not, not everybody has a different journey and so you can't really compare. So in terms of like expectation to me, I like to like, you know, say that like, you know, after your first session, you should celebrate that you did your first session, not that you achieve a certain like step of the process. Like I would say.
Luc (25:11.97)
Great show.
Gwen (25:21.998)
you know, I got, I went out and I did my first session. I'm stoked. Like that's, it's part of my process. And then next time you go out, you know, celebrate, I went out twice, you know, and maybe the conditions were a bit different and now I'm gaining more experience. More than like sometimes if you have like,
steps that you decided yourself that would be, you know, going up wind, going up on foil, driving, and then you spent like between steps, you feel like it's taking you so long. And sometimes it just like, you get, a bit depressed about that. but really what matters is not that, you know, you got step one, step two, step three is that you put in the time and now you are one step closer to your next goal.
Luc (25:44.642)
Very true.
Luc (26:10.082)
Hmm.
Gwen (26:10.126)
and because in truly I think time underwater is what you need the most. and it can be get frustrating when you see somebody that only been doing it for a week is, is already ahead of you, you know, that you've been doing it for like two months or whatever. But if you like, that's why just focus on celebrating the time you've put in.
and enjoy the process. I think that's, you know, you, the process is what you have and the result, it will come, but the process is, you have to enjoy the process.
Damien LeRoy (26:51.339)
I think you guys are both spot on. I mean, look, it's enjoy the learning. That's all it is. It's just a learning and you're going to be new in it. You're going to be learning something new. So enjoy it. And I'd even say one step more is for some of those that maybe you should pat yourself on the back that you even went out to even do it. Like not even the lesson itself, even if you showed up the beach to learn how or what this is or to watch it. That's your first step. That's huge. Like sometimes it's hard to just get up off the couch. So.
Luc (27:01.378)
Very true.
Damien LeRoy (27:21.547)
little baby, I guess, accomplishments as you go, but I think it's spot on not to say, hey, I'm going to be going up and I'll be falling today, I'll be this, that, and now you just get bumped because if it doesn't happen, you're bumped. But yeah, I think you're going to love every bit about it, the whole struggle, the whole learning process. Enjoy being the beginner again.
Luc (27:25.474)
Very true. Very, very true.
Luc (27:39.138)
That's true. That's true.
All right guys, that sounds pretty good for your basic overview of our first lesson. Next one, everybody, we're gonna go into wing handling basics. So make sure to catch us for the next one. So we'll see you then.
Damien LeRoy (27:48.811)
That's it.
Luc (27:59.138)
music.
Gwen (28:03.982)
Thanks guys.