Episode #78 - Lukas Schuler

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, welcome back to the show. Today we have Lukas Schuler joining us. If you have ever seen a video of a guy bungee foiling on a river with raging current that has a couple million views, it was probably his. He is the creator of Foil Only, a very popular Instagram channel that spreads the stoke of foiling without the use of bikini shots. Wow.

[00:00:25] He joins us to talk about how and why he started his channel, his family life and much more. So we really do hope that you enjoy this episode.

[00:00:34] Last week we had Joe Ciestula on the show. He has been the voice of the GKA and the GWA since they were founded. We had a great time getting to know him, finding out what his family life was like growing up in the wind Mecca of Tarifa, Spain. So we do hope that you enjoy this episode as well.

[00:00:53] Now I want to take this opportunity to thank our team for making this show a reality. We have Frank that helps out with media and consulting. We have Matthias on guest relations. And we have Stefan on audio mastering. A big thank you as a lot of work goes into each and every episode.

[00:01:11] Next, I'd like to give a big thank you to our sponsors. So I would ask you to hop over to winglifepodcast.com and check out who is supporting us behind the scenes. First and foremost, let's give North Foils a shout out. I've been riding their SF range here in La Ventana and loving it. So make sure to check out northkb.com to learn more about them.

[00:01:33] Lastly, winter is here. So make sure to check out winglifepodcast.com. Navigate over to the trips menu. We just started advertising a trip to Bonaire May 4th to 10th, which is going to be an amazing time.

[00:01:48] So if you're looking to learn how to wing foil or improve your skills with expert instruction on top of that with some video analysis and then some wellness sessions to tune up your body to have it ready for the next day, this trip is for you.

[00:02:00] So hop over to winglifepodcast.com and check it out. Now, I hope you enjoy the show.

[00:02:12] Welcome to the Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport.

[00:02:20] All right, Lucas, welcome, my man.

[00:02:22] Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:25] It's only foil only. Oh, interesting. So do you only foil?

[00:02:33] I wish I could. But as you know, there are like other things in life to do.

[00:02:38] But no, the name of my Insta account foil only was about that.

[00:02:42] This account is just basically showing me on foil and no other stuff.

[00:02:48] So I try to keep a foil in every single post. That's the idea.

[00:02:53] Oh, cool. How long have you been building that channel?

[00:02:56] Oh, actually, that's a good question. Maybe three years now, something like this.

[00:03:01] It's basically when I started my foil journey, more or less.

[00:03:05] Maybe I did a half of a year without my Instagram channel, but then I started it pretty early.

[00:03:10] So maybe one year or a half year after I started foiling.

[00:03:16] What? Because not a lot of people put in that much time to content because I know it's difficult.

[00:03:21] It takes a lot of time. What made you decide to kind of go into that?

[00:03:27] It's basically, I mean, yeah, I hear a lot of people asking me,

[00:03:32] oh, Lucas, how can you do it? It looks so natively when you are out there, you just do content.

[00:03:37] And for me, it's so hard to do content.

[00:03:39] And then I have to film it and then I have to edit it. And it's a lot of stress.

[00:03:43] But for me, more or less, it actually, I like it a lot to create content.

[00:03:49] And I also like it to be out there and creating content.

[00:03:55] So it's not a lot of stress for me doing that. It's actually a pleasure.

[00:03:58] It makes my experience on the water even better.

[00:04:01] So it's not that I'm doing it just for Instagram.

[00:04:04] It really, my Instagram and my foiling world really is connected together.

[00:04:08] Sometimes when I forgot to charge my GoPro and I go on a downwind,

[00:04:13] I feel quite bored out there because there's no one that I can talk with.

[00:04:18] Like it feels like I'm alone, you know?

[00:04:20] And when I take my camera with me, it's like I'm going on the downwind with the full community

[00:04:25] and sharing my thoughts and my feelings.

[00:04:28] So yeah, basically, it's not stressful for me to create content.

[00:04:32] It's exactly the opposite.

[00:04:33] Oh, that's a cool approach of doing it.

[00:04:37] Um, cause I know everybody, I guess, does it for different reasons.

[00:04:41] Athletes are obviously paid to produce content.

[00:04:43] They have to produce certain reels.

[00:04:45] Um, but then everybody else outside of that space.

[00:04:50] Um, yeah, we're always curious to see why they do it.

[00:04:53] Um, now, obviously I just saw some of your posts, like you have a young family and, um,

[00:04:58] um, like how is involving family life with camper van life into that foiling life?

[00:05:05] Yeah.

[00:05:06] So yeah, as, as you're saying, I'm, I have a, I have a pretty young family.

[00:05:10] So I have two sons.

[00:05:11] Uh, the youngest boy is one and a half and the older one is four years old.

[00:05:15] So the good thing is they are still not in school.

[00:05:19] That means we are kind of free in terms of, uh, the time we want to travel.

[00:05:24] And then, uh, for my business, like I'm not a professional athlete and I'm not, uh, not paid

[00:05:29] for foiling.

[00:05:30] Um, actually I'm trying to avoid that as much as I can to not be paid or sponsored with,

[00:05:36] uh, with some, um, uh, expectation from the side of my sponsors.

[00:05:41] So, but we can, we can talk about that later, but what I want to say is I try to be pretty

[00:05:45] free and, uh, yeah, and then we can, we can travel around and my job is I'm running a social

[00:05:51] media agency.

[00:05:52] So what we do for what I do for a living is like making videos and, uh, and photo content

[00:05:58] with my employees, which is a locally based company in Germany.

[00:06:03] I'm from Germany.

[00:06:05] So, um, yeah.

[00:06:06] Yeah.

[00:06:06] And when I'm, when I'm on, on, on traveling, um, I, I, I used to work remotely from my laptop.

[00:06:13] Um, so it's, I have like a few puzzles that, uh, that you have to put together to make this

[00:06:19] system running, you know, and it's for sure it's always compromising.

[00:06:23] Um, but that's what it's all about, you know, um, trying to find a balance between your job,

[00:06:28] your passion, like foiling or your hobby, and then your family.

[00:06:31] And I have a very supportive wife.

[00:06:34] Um, she loves to see me smiling and then she puts herself a little bit back taking care

[00:06:39] of the kids.

[00:06:40] And, and yeah, I'm very thankful for that.

[00:06:42] And your Instagram is PG 13.

[00:06:45] What the heck?

[00:06:46] You're not, you're not sporting short shorts.

[00:06:49] You're not like, that's one thing obviously we notice, um, with everybody out there that,

[00:06:55] that like, we don't have to go too far into it.

[00:06:57] Cause I want to talk to some other people about it, but like in order to build a big

[00:07:01] following, oftentimes content does get heavily sexualized.

[00:07:04] So looking at your content and how you approach it, more family based, um, we're doing fun

[00:07:10] things, bringing me along for the ride.

[00:07:12] Some of the most successful podcasts are built and like another content is built that way.

[00:07:16] It's wholesome fun.

[00:07:17] It's family fun.

[00:07:18] So anyways, I just wanted to mention that because, um, it's not always fun to see hypersexualized

[00:07:24] content on Instagram all the time.

[00:07:27] It's a, it gets a bit much.

[00:07:29] So anyways, kudos for you for, for building it in this way.

[00:07:34] Yeah.

[00:07:34] That, that's, that's super, super, um, interesting what you mentioned.

[00:07:38] And I think like social media is pushing us in the, in one direction.

[00:07:42] Also like being a creator, social media is directing you where to go.

[00:07:46] I mean, I exactly know that, um, those type of content that I will do will bring me followers

[00:07:53] or that type of content will, um, will gain more views.

[00:07:57] Um, but then, and, and yeah, for sure.

[00:08:00] If you do it for living and you know, you have to grow your Instagram account and you know,

[00:08:04] you have to like make good wheels with, with, with a, with a viral touch or whatever.

[00:08:08] Um, you, you are going for this type of content that will bring you followers.

[00:08:14] But for me, and this is also why for me, it's super important to not make this as a business

[00:08:19] to be free.

[00:08:20] Um, I, I still do reels and I exactly know that I will lose follower by doing this kind

[00:08:27] of reels because it's maybe too nerdy.

[00:08:29] You know, you're digging deep into tech talk on foils or whatever, you know?

[00:08:34] Um, and it's not just, but if I would do like funny reels, like comedy stuff, or like

[00:08:39] you say, sexual content, I mean, I'm not looking good in a bikini, so I, I'm not sure if that

[00:08:44] would work.

[00:08:45] So, um, but there are other things people can do like doing like, I don't know, catchy hook

[00:08:51] stuff, you know, just, uh, for brighter, for, for bigger group, uh, for a bigger target

[00:08:56] group.

[00:08:57] So you can, you can grow your Instagram much faster, but I'm actually not looking in growing

[00:09:02] the Instagram account.

[00:09:03] It's, I just share whatever I like.

[00:09:05] And if it's growing, it's growing, but I can tell you if I lose 10,000 followers, I don't

[00:09:11] give a shit.

[00:09:11] So I don't care about that.

[00:09:13] It's not the numbers that count for me.

[00:09:15] It's more like, I want to share my story, my passion, and it all started being just a

[00:09:19] diary for myself to see my progression, you know, to, to remember those runs that I've

[00:09:24] done in downwinning with the crew in France.

[00:09:27] And then I can, sometimes I just scroll down my Instagram and I know I rewatched the

[00:09:32] wheels and I see on this one, there was that guy.

[00:09:35] And maybe I sent him a direct message how it's going.

[00:09:38] And like, you know, it's, it's, it's a diary for me, basically.

[00:09:42] How did that whole foil journey start for you?

[00:09:50] Yeah.

[00:09:51] next to Munich. So there is no ocean and there are a few little lakes, but there was the river in

[00:09:57] front of my door. And I saw some Swiss guys using bungee ropes for river surfing, like on normal

[00:10:05] surfboards, but it requires a decent water flow. So I tried this and it was not really fun. And

[00:10:12] then I saw this friend of me using kite foils and I was thinking this is way more efficient. We

[00:10:17] should try this on the bungee in the river and maybe that works. It doesn't work at all with

[00:10:23] this kite foil and it was not, it was not, not the right gear, but the idea was born. And so we

[00:10:28] tried again and tried to find bigger boards, bigger foils back then where it was not so easy to, to find

[00:10:34] all this, this gear in Germany. And yeah, finally we put our pieces together and it worked. So I

[00:10:39] could go out in the river in front of my door, uh, being on the bungee rope and like foiling for hours.

[00:10:45] Like, uh, you just go with in the river, you pull yourself up, like you extend the rope,

[00:10:51] then you pull yourself up, like being behind a boat or whatever and, or behind the winch.

[00:10:56] And then you can turn endless, uh, staying in the current in the water flow and it keeps you up on

[00:11:01] foil. And that's how I could count my, my hours on foil without a wind or waves or any other toys.

[00:11:08] And then I was full brain right away. And it was the addiction was real. And I, from that point,

[00:11:15] I continued in, in all the other disciplines like wing foiling, sub foiling, um, now a little bit of

[00:11:22] prone foiling with the four drive. I really enjoy that. That's a new, new kind of passion I just

[00:11:28] discovered. So yeah, it's, it's, but there, that was, was the basic stuff, how it started like in the

[00:11:35] river in front of my house. That's pretty cool. Making whatever work work, um, for those just

[00:11:42] listening in and maybe who haven't seen some of your videos about that, like in what direction is

[00:11:47] the current going and how are you able to get that bungee to stretch and actually pull you out?

[00:11:53] Okay. So that the last reel I did about this, uh, specific type of foiling about bungee foiling

[00:11:59] just got 9 million views. So it's pretty viral. It's, it's really amazing. Um, so I think some,

[00:12:07] some people already saw that. And if, if I walk here now I'm in Tenerife right now, and if I walk

[00:12:11] here on the, on the beach, some people are like, Oh, this is the guy with the, on the river with a

[00:12:16] bungee. I saw you on Instagram. That's pretty funny, but yeah, let me break it down. So sure.

[00:12:22] It's a, it's a, yeah. Just think about the little river, not too big, you know, but with a, with

[00:12:27] quite a lot of water flow. So we are on 600 meters and the Alps are closed. So we have, um, we have

[00:12:33] pretty decent water flow. Okay. Now I have to let my body in. Sure. Maybe we, we need to cut this for

[00:12:39] a second. Cut. Yeah. And then we, we, I just let him in for a second. Yeah. He's coming back from the session.

[00:12:45] Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. All right. And we're back.

[00:12:47] Yeah. What was the question again? How, how I, the, the bungee foiling.

[00:12:53] Okay. So let me break down the bungee foiling for you. Um, basically you can imagine a river

[00:12:59] with quite a lot of water flow. It's not too big that river. Um, but we are near the Alps. Um,

[00:13:05] so we have some, some water coming from, from, from the mountains and, um, yeah. And then we,

[00:13:11] we have a bridge, you will need a bridge to attach the bungee and it's a bungee about,

[00:13:15] I don't know, six, no, that's 5.5 meter. We ended up like, this is being the best, uh,

[00:13:21] best length for, for, for what we do. And yeah, it's stretch, uh, you load about 60 kilograms

[00:13:28] by starting the foil, you load onto it. So what you do is you go, you just have a rope, uh, you go in

[00:13:34] the, in the water flow and you turn your board, like doing a, doing a start behind the boat, you know,

[00:13:39] like a wake wakeboard start or wake surf start. And by that you're creating drag, you know,

[00:13:45] you're dragging down the, the, the river, uh, and stretching the bungee rope. And when you feel

[00:13:52] enough power on the bungee, you turn your board like nose up pointing, uh, um, pointing, pointing

[00:13:59] up the river. And then the drag is reduced and yeah, you, you, you got pulled, uh, upstream.

[00:14:06] And since we are using foils, you're not just getting pulled upstream. You, you, the foil is

[00:14:11] creating lift and you, you will take off and be on foil. And then that was, that was what I did first.

[00:14:17] And it was funny. And then you fall in and you do it again and you do it again. But suddenly I realized,

[00:14:21] okay, when I do a turn just before the power is completely gone on the rope, and I can turn the

[00:14:27] foil again to create that, like, let's say drag or let that, that, that, uh, tension to, to extra,

[00:14:35] to, to extend the bungee again, I could do like endless foiling because I'm just turning in, in,

[00:14:40] in this sweet sweet spot and, um, holding that, that power on the bungee while the flow is, uh,

[00:14:46] lifting you up. So it was pretty, pretty cool. Um, because it was like every single day,

[00:14:52] it was there, there's, there's water flow every single day and the river is keeping, keeping, um,

[00:14:58] you up on foil. And so I could practice a lot in that river. Yeah. And then I, and, and I started

[00:15:03] with big boards, like I mentioned, like big wing boards, big foils, but as you, as you do when you,

[00:15:08] when you progress, it's like you scale down your gear. So the board, boards went smaller. We used

[00:15:13] straps and could start to jump like doing ollies and stuff like that, you know? Um, and, and it's,

[00:15:19] it's basically, it's, it's pretty cool. It's pretty fun. It's not, you cannot compare it like

[00:15:23] being pulled behind a boat or B or e-foiling for example, where you learn it. And then it's like,

[00:15:29] in the end, it's actually pretty boring because there's like not much you can do. Um, so this is

[00:15:35] more technical. Like I would compare it to wing foiling from the learning process. And that, that's,

[00:15:41] as you know, it's pretty, pretty addictive. So yeah, that was a cool, cool way to, to get up on foil.

[00:15:47] Yeah. That's super creative and working within what you have, how much current is there in the

[00:15:52] river? That's obviously going away from the bridge. That's super hard to measure. So I don't have the

[00:15:59] tools to measure it and to break it down in numbers, but I always say like you need, it's,

[00:16:03] it's not possible to swim against it anymore. So I would say if you want to measure your current in

[00:16:09] your local river and want to check out if it's possible to fall there, if you go there and if you

[00:16:14] just try to paddle, um, or swim against the current. And if this is not possible anymore,

[00:16:21] then it's probably enough to go foiling. Are you able to foil without the bungee once you get going?

[00:16:26] Like you were mentioning, you're doing S turns and stuff and that, but you're, you still hold

[00:16:30] it in one hand, obviously. Exactly. And then every once in a while, when you need power,

[00:16:34] you just give it a bit of a yank. Exactly. Yeah. You, you sure you have,

[00:16:38] you have to hold it because if you lose it, you just go down with the, even if you're

[00:16:42] struggling, like if you're pumping it, you know, but it's, it's, you just go with the,

[00:16:46] with the water. But what we do is like, um, we do S turns or like we turning around on the cable,

[00:16:52] we jump and then we just let go of the rope and pump upstream, for example, try to find some

[00:16:57] little bumps, play around with it, turn around again and go again on the cable. So that's the cool

[00:17:02] thing about foiling that we can use the pumping, you know, so we can let go and pump around this

[00:17:07] river and then go again back on the, on the bungee rope. So it's, uh, it's not that you always have to

[00:17:13] be there on the rope, but if you want to do it without any effort, like let's take, just take the

[00:17:18] energy from the, from the river, uh, you have to be on the bungee, but yeah, then you can pump around a

[00:17:23] bit. What do you think about using, did you find, cause you learned on it. Um, yeah. How do you

[00:17:30] think that learning journey now that you've E foiled in essence with a foil drive and you've

[00:17:36] wing foiled and done all the other disciplines, what do you think is the easiest way to learn the

[00:17:43] foiling basics? That's a good question. Um, I would say it's always, um, it depends a bit from

[00:17:52] where you're coming from. Like, let's say you have a windsurf background. It's way easier to learn wing

[00:17:57] foiling, you know? Um, and you feel very comfortable to the wing. If you have a surf background,

[00:18:03] it's maybe different or a standard background, but I would say for the very basic is if I put people

[00:18:08] on the foil that just wants to feel the sensation of flying over the water, um, it's E foiling for sure.

[00:18:17] It's, it's a good way to get the sensation in a very safe and easy and comfortable way for the first time.

[00:18:24] Um, the second one I would say is behind the boat, like towing or even better when you, when you have a

[00:18:29] pole on the boat, like sticking out to the side and you can really grab that pole and hold yourself,

[00:18:36] like stabilize yourself on that pole. That's a pretty, pretty good way to learn, to learn falling

[00:18:41] for the first time. Um, yeah, I think those two options are the best. Now, what was it about this

[00:18:48] particular sport that captivated you? Oh, that that's, that's the question I'm, I'm always asking,

[00:18:55] even if I'm now downwinding, why is this so much fun? Why is this so? And I think it comes down to

[00:19:02] first, it feels pretty natural. The movement that you are doing, you don't think about it too much.

[00:19:08] It's pretty intuitive. I was learning foiling at the same time as my first son was like walking around

[00:19:16] and I was watching him. Like, I think at that point I was trying to pump for like, but good pump

[00:19:22] foiling. And I, and I was pretty addictive about pump foiling because again, we have a good pump

[00:19:28] for sport and not many other things to do at home on foil. So I digged into, into that rabbit hole

[00:19:34] and he was learning, um, how to walk and I was watching him and I say, yeah, basically he's,

[00:19:40] he can walk, you know, he's, he's able to walk. He's able to go from A to B,

[00:19:44] but, and then I compared like we are now walking for, I don't know, a few, few more years and we are

[00:19:51] so, so more, um, intuitive and we, we have way better skills in walking. And I think this is

[00:19:58] basically what it's with foiling. I mean, you can, you can dock start a board and you can pump around

[00:20:02] for five minutes and that's, you can say you can dock start and, but then there is still so much

[00:20:09] more to discover all this little movement, all this little, and then you suddenly can pump for,

[00:20:13] for minutes. And then you find out there are different ways to pump and how can I pump at low

[00:20:18] speed and how can I pump at fast speed? How can I recover from mistakes? You know? Um, and, and that's,

[00:20:25] it's, it's not getting boring because it's, you start with a, you can get into it with, with,

[00:20:30] with some, some basic skills, having fun. And then it just opens up a whole new world and the rabbit hole

[00:20:38] is deep. And I think that's what the sensation is coming from. And also like, it's a very physical

[00:20:44] way. It's being in the water in the, in the elements. Um, and it's also like, especially what

[00:20:52] I love so much about downwind. It's not just the skill in terms of your body movement. It's also such a

[00:20:59] strategic thing and your mind is, has to be very focused and you, you, yeah, it's, it's that,

[00:21:06] that flow state everyone is talking about, but I think it's, it's really like, it's, you're getting

[00:21:11] in a, in a different, uh, in a different way of moving and, um, um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Seeing the ocean

[00:21:20] and in a, in a very special way, how to communicate with your environment and your body and it all goes

[00:21:26] in the flow. And then, and I think that's, that's basically what is, what is so addictive.

[00:21:30] And then there's the limit is this guy, you know, there's where, where do we go? I mean,

[00:21:36] downwind falling is now super new and now with the power wing is coming, it's super exciting

[00:21:39] also to be in that community. Um, so this is another part of our sport that the community is

[00:21:46] so great because it's a new sport. It's pretty small. Everyone is so connected to each other. We have

[00:21:51] like great podcasts, great Instagram. And we just, you just reach out to foilers around the world and

[00:21:56] they just answer your questions. Like, you, you know, you can ask them, how is, how does this

[00:22:01] for a feel or how do you do this? And they just answering and there are rock stars out there,

[00:22:06] but still there. So the community is so small and so, so, um, so kind that I really appreciate

[00:22:12] that move. Also when you go on vacation and you go, imagine you go to a surf spot, no one will

[00:22:17] invite you to your surf spot. But when, but when you go for don't downwind trip, everyone is like,

[00:22:22] Oh, I'm stoked. Jump on my car. We go for a downwind. I show you around. So this is also helps a lot

[00:22:27] to, to keep the stock pretty high. And that, yeah, I think that's that, that are a few, actually a few,

[00:22:33] a few good aspects to, to keep going. Yeah. That's very true. That was the one thing, obviously we've

[00:22:39] talked about this multiple times on the show, but the community aspect of the wind sports and now

[00:22:44] that foiling, cause it's less competitive, I think for us out there. And, uh, it has allowed

[00:22:50] me personally who always wanted to surf, but wasn't around good surf conditions like the Great Lakes in

[00:22:55] Ontario. You can surf a little bit, but now jumping on a foil, like I can surf a lot longer. Um,

[00:23:03] the sensation of waves and swell is amplified. Speed is amplified. Meanwhile, you're moving slowly

[00:23:12] and you're on a three footer, but it feels massive, which is the hilarious part. Um,

[00:23:18] obviously I think that's just cause we're higher up off the water, I guess. Um, that kind of thing.

[00:23:24] So how far down the rabbit hole did you go with the tech aspect of it? Um, playing with front wings,

[00:23:31] tails, fuse, uh, masts, all that kind of thing. Yeah. So, um, this brings me to a little, I was,

[00:23:39] it was just yesterday or the day before I was like standing in front of all my faults that I brought

[00:23:45] here to Tenerife. And I was thinking, man, do you need so many foils? I was like,

[00:23:53] can I sell some? I don't know. Will I ever use it? This one again. And I was really thinking about

[00:23:58] the calf to get rid of some foils. And I was like, but I like this for for this specific condition.

[00:24:03] And when I go on a downwind and on the fast downwind, I'm going to take this higher aspect

[00:24:08] for it. And when I go on a surfy downwind, I want that for it. So, um, I think foiling is very, um,

[00:24:17] the other way around the gear is very important to have a good sensation for foiling. Um, so I

[00:24:24] love all my foils. And this is also why I'm with a brand offering very, um, different foils and a

[00:24:32] pretty wide range. Um, I mean, access is doing falls for, for downwind, for racing, for pump foiling.

[00:24:39] And this is what I need to, to, um, to have fun like on in any condition, you know, and, um,

[00:24:47] it makes a huge difference. Just now I discovered again, longer fuselages on, um, on, on big ocean

[00:24:55] downwind. This helps me a lot to go faster, to go safer, more pitch stability. So just, I just got a

[00:25:03] way, way better sensation on my downwinders, like the same foil, the same step, just a longer fuse.

[00:25:09] And I get a totally better sensation. Um, yeah, just by a few millimeters longer fuses fuse. So

[00:25:16] that's crazy. I mean, that's, I, I don't know any other sport where gear and foils are so important.

[00:25:24] And of all the companies out there, access has such a wide range of options. Yeah.

[00:25:33] Sometimes it's actually pretty hard to, even for me to remember all those numbers and names and

[00:25:39] it's crazy. It's crazy. It's, it's, it's really, um, yeah, it's a really wide range, but it's cool

[00:25:46] because I go pump foiling on flat days. I go and, and you, you, you still use the same mass and the

[00:25:52] same system. I mean, there are now a few companies bringing out faults, which are really, really good.

[00:25:58] And really, uh, there are good faults. Like let's say for example, code, um, they, they just took

[00:26:04] out some crazy good downwind for it when James Casey released them and did this brand, but they

[00:26:10] are then just for downwinding. So, and, and I mean, they have bigger faults, smaller faults,

[00:26:15] but the range is not that big. So yeah, I really appreciate that axis, uh, has that big range.

[00:26:21] And this is the main or one of the biggest reason why I go with, with them. And also they're bringing

[00:26:26] out, I mean, it's also what, what really surprising me, like every, every half year is like how much

[00:26:33] better it gets by each generation of the foils. Still. I mean, you remember that movement from going

[00:26:39] from a low aspect to a high aspect wing and sure it glides better. It's more efficient. And, but now

[00:26:46] I thought, okay, now we have high aspects. So what's coming next? It cannot be like,

[00:26:51] you know, where's the next, uh, development steps. So, and now we are just discovering the new type

[00:26:58] of foils, which are very easy to start, but then super fast. So there's just so much improvement in all

[00:27:05] the details in the foil section and we are getting, uh, so much better in the gear that we have

[00:27:12] so many new exciting possibilities. Uh, so I'm super stoked about that, how fast we develop in

[00:27:20] the gear, you know, and it can be like a little frustrating for some brands because when you,

[00:27:24] when you do a huge update every, every year or every half year, it's sometimes hard to keep up

[00:27:30] like for small brands or for, for even for the dealers and for the shops. But for us as a customer,

[00:27:36] it's so nice to have always like this big step in, in the, in the, in the development.

[00:27:42] Do you have your opinion of where, let's say the next revolution within this thing is going?

[00:27:54] In terms of, in terms of what, in terms of foils or yeah, like, I mean, what we have seen in the

[00:28:01] past, like there were a few brands developing faults to, to go faster on the races, to win the

[00:28:07] downwind races and to develop very technical high end racing faults. Um, but this is not for the

[00:28:15] average. And also this is not what I want to ride. I'm not going for, I did some competitions and

[00:28:21] racing, but not to win a race. It was mostly because of the community and to discover new places.

[00:28:28] And now I see that brands are looking for foils that are fun to ride. And I really appreciate that

[00:28:36] development. So I did, I remember I did a, um, I did a funny reel on Instagram where I put a B plane

[00:28:46] foil. I tried to make a B plane for like put a very big foil high up on mass and then a small one

[00:28:52] down on the mass. So my idea was, okay, I can take off on the big one and then for the smaller one,

[00:28:57] you know, so I have a very early lift and take off the foil and then I can go fast on a smaller foil.

[00:29:03] And now I'm feeling we have that type of, uh, foil already built into one. So, um, I just got the new

[00:29:10] range of foils and I was able to scale down my fault size from the surface area so much. Like

[00:29:17] I can now flat water, start the 700 square centimeter foil in sub foiling on the flat.

[00:29:23] And this would wouldn't have been possible before. And so you have that very early start in the force

[00:29:30] that very early lift, and then still that super nice top end. So it feels like you're really having

[00:29:36] a second gear and you can decide how fast you want to go and not the foil is telling you how

[00:29:41] fast you want to go. So the dynamic range of the speed really in terms of, especially for downwind

[00:29:46] foiling is super crucial to have, to be able to start this for comfortable and then still be able

[00:29:52] to hammer down those big bumps and go, go very not being over for it, you know? And, um, yeah,

[00:29:59] and that's what I, what I see now in the next generation of foils, um, coming that they are easy to use.

[00:30:06] You can go slow, you can go fast. They are just, and I think it's a good development because mainly

[00:30:11] we just go out and want to have fun and want to not struggle. So always trying to avoid the struggle

[00:30:17] and just, uh, yeah, yeah. Have the fun part. And I see the development is going in this direction.

[00:30:23] And I, yeah, I think that's the, that's the next step. And then there are completely new disciplines

[00:30:28] out now. I mean, let's see where, where the power wing thing is going and the low kite,

[00:30:33] it's super interesting. Now, now we've got that type of wing device, you know?

[00:30:40] Do you have a lot of experience on it?

[00:30:42] I never tried it. It's here on the beach and I see it, um, but I never really tried it. So I,

[00:30:48] I just had it in my hands one time on the beach. Um, but I, I, I'm stoked. I want to try it for sure.

[00:30:55] Yeah. I want to see if I can get a, there's a few people here in La Ventana. I'm here until

[00:31:01] probably March, I think this year. And I would love to just give it a little bit of a go, uh, and

[00:31:06] see what that thing feels like. I had some friends back in Ontario, try it and there was some positives

[00:31:12] and they had, obviously it's first gen. So there's going to be some things that, that are going to get

[00:31:15] improved over time. But the concept is pretty cool. Uh, yeah, the concept is pretty cool and it's just

[00:31:23] another toy that we have, um, in our pocket, maybe for those, they don't want to paddle or they just

[00:31:29] learning how to downward foil. Um, it can be, it can be a good option. It's just another toy that we

[00:31:35] can use and that's super cool. Any top places that you've been to that you've liked for foiling in your

[00:31:45] area? I've been actually to a lot of places. Um, I've been more or less all around Europe now trying

[00:31:52] to find new, nice downwind sports, mostly downwinding, but also winging. When I go for,

[00:31:58] for a new sport, I always go out first with the wing, go upwind, deflate the wing and go downwind

[00:32:04] because on the way upwind, I can already check the conditions, see how the bumps are going or, um,

[00:32:10] um, if there is seaweed or fishing nets or whatever. So I can, with the wing, it always feels a bit

[00:32:16] safer because you can always just go, go back again. Um, and, and then mainly I I'm looking for

[00:32:24] downwind locations and if, if there's no, not a great downwind, I go for, for surf or stop, um,

[00:32:30] foiling, um, or surf foiling. So trying to, to bring all the disciplines in, um, and I've been around,

[00:32:37] around Europe. So in, in, uh, many places. And I, I think actually my, my top destination for which is

[00:32:46] what, what is close to my home. And also for the summer is Lake Arda. There's, it's just cool there

[00:32:52] with, with, you have these two winds, like the wind in the morning, and then the wind turns around 180

[00:32:58] degree and it goes in the other direction in the evening. And I've done some pretty long downwinds. I

[00:33:04] was crossing the Lake Arda, uh, 55 kilometers. Uh, it was impressive and it's so cool.

[00:33:12] Yeah. Yeah. On the lake. That's pretty cool. That's a big lake. Yeah. It's a big lake. And,

[00:33:18] um, I, I was not expecting that because there's something special. You can just,

[00:33:23] you start in the morning and you go as long as the, as the wind is carrying you. Um, and if the wind

[00:33:29] drops or if you want to go out, there's a bus like driving, driving up on the, on the lake. So

[00:33:35] you can just send it and see how far you can go. And, uh, I did it until the lake was finished.

[00:33:41] So, uh, I had to go out and it was impressive. And, and this was also, um, and it's a great

[00:33:47] spot. It's so beautiful with the mountains around and it's, it's very predictive from the wind.

[00:33:51] Um, so very, very nice, not that big, it's not ocean big, but it's, it's pretty good.

[00:33:56] Um, and the logistics for Darwin is pretty good there as well. And for winging, it's a world-class

[00:34:02] sport. Um, so this is definitely, uh, uh, one of the top sports for summer, but then in the winter,

[00:34:09] it's like super cold. You don't want to go out there. It's not fun. And also the wind in the

[00:34:13] winter is not, not very good. Um, so when it comes to, to, to winter, I think, uh, my favorite

[00:34:20] sports are Tarifa in Spain. Uh, I, I was there like four weeks, three, three or four weeks ago.

[00:34:28] And for the first time, and it's, it's just impressive. It's very beautiful. And the wind

[00:34:32] is crazy strong. It's that special spot where you have the Atlantic and the Mediterranean sea.

[00:34:38] So you can, you can, it's crazy. You can decide where you want to go. Uh, there are some,

[00:34:43] some good waves, some good downwind days. It's sandy. It's beautiful. It's green. Uh, very, very nice,

[00:34:50] but to read the forecast, it can be a little tricky because there's a lot of stuff going on that you

[00:34:57] have to keep an eye on. So it's good if you know a local or if you have a friend there who can help

[00:35:02] you out, um, and then be in the right spot. Um, and then I think my top favorite sport for

[00:35:10] water sport, uh, in winter is the Canaries where I'm now. Um, because you're in Tenerife,

[00:35:16] it's impressive. You go in board shorts in the winter, you have like huge ocean. It's in the middle

[00:35:21] of Atlantic. So you've got some proper swell, you've got proper waves, uh, like good,

[00:35:27] good, strong wind. Uh, and yeah, being out there in warm weather, it's just super nice.

[00:35:32] And you're just working from there running your, your company.

[00:35:36] Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The kids, the kids are still pretty young, so they're not in school that

[00:35:42] we were trying to, to enjoy that, that, that freedom. And, uh, I'm, I'm running my company

[00:35:48] from here, like working remote nowadays. I mean, if I'm at home, I sit most, most of my time and I'm in

[00:35:55] front of my laptop, uh, even if I'm in the office. So I try to change my office a bit to,

[00:36:02] to the office on the beach and yeah. Oh yeah. No, for sure. That's the dream of a lot of us are

[00:36:08] chasing. Like, um, even this allows me to be here in, in Mexico and get some afternoon sessions

[00:36:16] on the laptop working and stuff during the day. Um, I think it provides you with a nice amount of

[00:36:22] freedom and it's awesome that your family can come in and do that with you, which is pretty special.

[00:36:26] Yeah. Yeah. It is for sure. It requires some, some extra work. It's not, it's not super easy. Um,

[00:36:33] it's pros and cons and, um, but, but it's, for me it's worth it. It's like going out after work or

[00:36:40] like getting your head free, going out, enjoying a session in the water. It's just,

[00:36:44] it's just so, so cool. Yeah. Does your wife do it as well?

[00:36:51] Yeah. Yeah. She, she, she does it. She, we learned behind the boat. We have a small boat and

[00:36:56] at home. So she learned there, then she went into the winging and was ringing a bit, but I'm

[00:37:03] actually pretty lucky that she's not super addicted now. So we don't have to share sessions, you know?

[00:37:11] Um, she's happy staying on the beach, playing with the kids. Um, but, but it, it's, it's kind of a

[00:37:17] family game, not like she's not super addictive, but she, she, when the conditions are good and she

[00:37:22] wants to enjoy, she, she does it. Um, but I just got a, got my son like a little into it, you know,

[00:37:28] he's not foiling, but I can share sessions with him and that's super cool. We just built it, the

[00:37:32] dock here to put like a proper dock that we put on the beach and, uh, do some dock startings in the

[00:37:38] wave. And then he's just jumping off that dock on his little boogie board, you know, bodyboard style.

[00:37:45] Um, so yeah, just being around in the ocean and playing like kids is, is a huge fun.

[00:37:51] Especially starting them so young that they'll have a whole lifetime of, of enjoyment. Cause these

[00:37:57] sports, yeah, I don't know. We'll have to see where they all go. Um, so how long are you in the

[00:38:03] spot that you're in? How long are you in Tenerife? Oh, basically we were not traveling for at, I think

[00:38:10] in the end three months. So we, but not TNT reef. So we went from Genova to Sicily to Malta. I had a

[00:38:18] job in Malta. Then we went back to Sicily, Italy, then, um, heading over to Barcelona with a ferry,

[00:38:26] um, which is also like a very, very good sport for foiling. Barcelona is amazing. There's a downwind

[00:38:32] crew. There are some good shops, good, good shops, foil shops. There's winds paradise or wind

[00:38:37] paradise from Shavi. Um, yeah, there's, it's, it's amazing. And they have actually, they actually

[00:38:42] have waves so you can serve there and they're not the best for surfing, but for foiling, they're

[00:38:47] amazing. Um, so we spent there one week, then we continued to Tarifa. Uh, we had two weeks in Tarifa

[00:38:54] with my friend Fred Bonneff. He's, he's there. He's a legend in water sport, legend, water man.

[00:38:59] So he, he was taking care of us and showing me around and we did some, some good surf,

[00:39:05] some good downwind action. And then we took the ferry to Tenerife where I'm right now. And here,

[00:39:10] now we spent here like two weeks with like not the best forecast. And then suddenly the forecast

[00:39:16] turned around in like proper two weeks of really, really strong wind. And then you see all the guys

[00:39:21] coming from all over Europe. They fly here. They just booked the tickets because they're actually

[00:39:26] pretty cheap and pretty easy to get. So I have a lot of friends coming from Germany and from all over,

[00:39:31] all over the place. And we do some, some good downwind action here together. We are a large crew

[00:39:37] always shuttling around and yeah. And now we are here for until Christmas. So we go back and then after

[00:39:43] Christmas for the very first time, I go to Fuerteventura, um, in also Canaries. Yeah. Super nice. I'm

[00:39:52] more than stoked and excited to see how that is. I just met, uh, Julia from Fuerte, Fuerte, Julia,

[00:39:59] it's her Instagram. Um, and she invited me to come and she will show me around and it must be amazing

[00:40:06] for wing foiling, also for surf foiling. There are some outer reefs, um, which I want to discover with

[00:40:13] my fall drive. So I think it's not the best for downwinding. So far as I know, let's see,

[00:40:18] I will figure it out, but for winging and for surfing, it must be epic. You'll have to talk

[00:40:24] to Frank cause he just came back from there. Not that long ago. He had a bit of a, he took a week

[00:40:30] off, I think, and ended up going there and absolutely loves it. He's been there a bunch of times. Um,

[00:40:36] but it's definitely one of the spots on our radar as well. Have you ever made it Hawaii way or kind of

[00:40:42] East coast, North America kind of stuff yet? I have that shirt, which says on my back, I need

[00:40:49] money for Maui because it was a, it was a fun thing. There was this Voyager camp. I don't know if you

[00:40:56] have heard about that. There's the Voyager crew who is the, the biggest, uh, falling crew, I think in the

[00:41:02] world, like a foiling downwind falling crew. So, um, and they are, um, there, they were running retreats and

[00:41:11] there are just pure legends. It's came to wild it's Jack from town. It's, uh, Simeon. So I was more than

[00:41:19] stoked to go there and just discover and in some kind, this, this all started there. What we do here,

[00:41:26] it's coming from there, all the development and all the, um, the new sports it's born in, on Hawaii.

[00:41:33] So I was, I was trying to, to discover, um, this, this, uh, this Island, but, uh, yeah,

[00:41:40] I didn't made it. Um, so I'm super expensive to go there and it's just far away. So I, I try to,

[00:41:47] to first let's see what we can do in Europe and, uh, around here. So, and then I go there at some point.

[00:41:54] And you have so many beautiful spots where, where you're from. Um, with that,

[00:41:59] with access to flying closely. Um, it's definitely a massive Mecca, like even in North America,

[00:42:05] it's popular, but it's, it's very isolated. Like the people that are in Mexico and Lavantana

[00:42:10] are the same people that'll be in hood river all summer. So it's the same crew. Um, those of us in

[00:42:16] the great lakes, it is a fairly small group there as well. And then if you go even more east in Canada,

[00:42:22] through like New Brunswick or New York state or all that kind of stuff, there are some people,

[00:42:27] but it's cool to see all that development coming. Well, and to give a bit of a shout out to Adrian,

[00:42:32] like I've met him and Evan a couple of times at AWSI and super nice guys and, uh, very, very

[00:42:38] technical. Like if you want to know anything, you just ask Adrian and he answers emails and he answers

[00:42:44] messages and it's just like, the dude is awesome. Um, at helping push this sport and community.

[00:42:50] Yeah. So there are so product driven. Um, I mean, this company's all about the product,

[00:42:56] you know, they just want to deliver the best product they could, they can make, you know,

[00:43:03] and Adrian is a, is a crazy guy about, uh, the, all the tech stuff on falling. And he digs really deep

[00:43:10] into simulations and, um, yeah, all this technical aspects. Um, and yeah, they are, it's, it's,

[00:43:18] it's an impressive company. It's basically two guys making the best voice in the world.

[00:43:23] That's pretty cool. And they are, they have been so supportive, you know, I'm not like,

[00:43:28] I'm not a, I'm not a team rider in these terms of, um, because I told them exactly what I was

[00:43:34] explaining you in the beginning. Like I want to be free, you know, and if there is a foil coming out

[00:43:39] and if people are asking me, Lucas, have you seen the code? Have you tried it? I want to be allowed

[00:43:44] and able to, to, to talk about that, you know, and for all the athletes and the team riders,

[00:43:50] I know it's a bit different. Um, so, and I, but I just want to have that freedom to be, um, able to

[00:43:58] choose whatever I ride, you know, and I want, I also want to have that freedom to, um, to make content

[00:44:04] that I want, would like to do and not like thinking about, okay, this is a good session

[00:44:10] to go out for pump falling, but I still have to make content for four drives. So maybe I take the

[00:44:14] four drives. No, it's not, that's not the way I want to do it. I just want to be absolutely when I

[00:44:19] have time, uh, in the water, I want to enjoy it as much as I can. And exactly in, in the way that I

[00:44:27] want to enjoy it. So, and there have been very, very supportive with that and saying like, yeah,

[00:44:32] and they're actually, I just use access because I, I, even if I would ask another brand to support me

[00:44:40] with a foil, I'm sure they would, they would do it just because of my Instagram, you know, or because

[00:44:44] of followers. It's it, it counts for sure. If I say, wow, this is the best foil in the world and I'm using,

[00:44:50] I don't know, an Armstrong or whatever it, it, it would work for sure. Um, but, but that's not why

[00:44:56] I'm writing access. I'm not getting paid or anything. Um, I just use it because I like them

[00:45:01] and, and they've been very supportive to, to let me go that way, you know, and going that way together,

[00:45:09] not with a contract or whatever. So just be very, I'm still very free in terms of what, what I use

[00:45:14] and what I can talk about. And I, I just used recently, I just, I tried the, this,

[00:45:20] huge Indiana for that. I don't know if you've seen it, like it's a, it's a two, two meter Indiana

[00:45:24] pump for it. And there was the record, like one guy was pumping it for five, no, four hours, 15.

[00:45:30] Wow. Like five hours pumping. He did like, I don't know how many kilometers on a lake just circling

[00:45:36] around. Um, so he could basically stay up on four forever. And this was taking my attention. I was like,

[00:45:43] man, I want to try this foil. And, and then I reached out to Indiana and they're like, yeah,

[00:45:48] you're more than welcome, come, come and try it. Or we're going to send you a foil. And, um,

[00:45:53] and, and I tried it. I could not pump for five hours. It was not possible, but it was impressive.

[00:45:59] And then, you know, and then having that freedom to, to, and the, and also that trust from,

[00:46:04] from the brand that they say from access that they say, yeah, sure do it. I mean, we want,

[00:46:09] to know it. We, we want, we want to hear it. Um, and I, I could, I was able to, to share this,

[00:46:15] uh, on, on my Instagram without any restrictions from that side. So that was pretty cool.

[00:46:20] That's the same way. Cause we've had some questions obviously about the companies that

[00:46:23] support our show cause there's expenses and that's just normal to have operating expenses.

[00:46:29] That's sort of the same way that we've set up our sponsors as well. Like we do have sponsors like

[00:46:34] North has been incredibly supportive, but we ride the gear that we want to ride that we like.

[00:46:40] And, uh, we're not boxed into only riding it, but we want to let everybody know that North is one of

[00:46:47] the brands that has been extremely supportive of actually helping make this show possible.

[00:46:52] It's not only about the money for them. It's not only about the return on their investment. It's

[00:46:57] about the community and about them allocating a portion of the money that they make to community

[00:47:02] initiatives like us who are on the beach, who are talking to people who are not, uh, pro athletes

[00:47:09] with two, 300,000 followers. Um, so that's the way we wanted to set it up where we weren't boxed in.

[00:47:16] We are a little bit more free and then we can enjoy the products that we want to ride.

[00:47:22] Cause in essence, we're all a big family. So we have to try, even though the industry is small

[00:47:25] and hyper competitive, we want to try to be as supportive and to help it grow as much as possible.

[00:47:31] Cause if we could double the fan base, like if we could double this fan base or triple the fan base

[00:47:36] of people who are coming in and buying gear, like that's doubling and triple everybody's money.

[00:47:42] And we will like over time, it's a, it's a big cake out there.

[00:47:47] Yeah. That's what I mean. Right? Like it's a massive, massive pie with so many people who are

[00:47:51] just starting to take a look at it. We're still very early on. Uh, do you think that let's say

[00:47:58] WSL world surf league or any of those bigger kind of surf organizations will ever consider adding in

[00:48:05] like a foil discipline? Why not? Why not? I think it's, it's such a, it's such an interesting sport. So

[00:48:14] yeah, I think so. Why not?

[00:48:16] Yeah. Cause we got what John, John and stuff starting to work at producing some foils

[00:48:20] and some other surfers like big name surfers are getting on board.

[00:48:24] Yeah. And also I, I think all the events there and the races there now, like it's just in the,

[00:48:31] in the starting and it's just figuring out how we can make, uh, how we can make races,

[00:48:36] how we can make, uh, disciplines or com competitions. Um, it's, it's super exciting,

[00:48:43] but it's just right in the beginning and it's, it's, it's also not, not easy to, to, to make it

[00:48:48] properly, you know, to make proper events and proper, proper disciplines, proper tours, like, you know,

[00:48:56] but, uh, yeah, I'm not, I'm not very deep into all that racing stuff. Um, I've never done competitions

[00:49:03] before, like not a competitive guy. Um, when I went to the downwind four competitions in the

[00:49:11] start, I was just sitting there and watching all the other guys taking off the legends, you know,

[00:49:15] because it was the best, the best position to, to watch them, you know, they're so close to you.

[00:49:20] And I enjoyed the start and then I took off and did my own run. Um, so for me, it's always more

[00:49:26] about the community, but I also see that coming like, and I hope it will come soon because I,

[00:49:31] I would love to see camps. You know, there are so many people reaching out to me and say,

[00:49:36] Lucas, I really would love to go where you are in Tenerife or in Tarifa. Um, but I don't know,

[00:49:41] then I go there and what, what can I do? There's, I book a hotel or an Airbnb and then I walk on the

[00:49:46] beach. Um, but I think it helps a lot, especially when it comes to foiling. It's not just one spot

[00:49:52] where you go out winging in the bay. They want to discover more. They want to be guided, you know,

[00:49:57] maybe there's a nice well and you find a wave over there. So someone brings you there. And I,

[00:50:02] I see that coming that we have like foiling events. Um, like maybe let's say now we see it in

[00:50:10] Croson in, in, in French and Brittany, they, they, they already did a competition in multiple

[00:50:17] disciplines. So there was downwind foiling. It was pump foiling for the first time was a

[00:50:23] proper competition than it was surf foiling. So, and I see that coming that you have maybe a few

[00:50:29] weeks or the Voyager crew, I trying to bring them to, to Tenerife here in Europe to make a camp, you know,

[00:50:35] um, and to, to, to, to make this more accessible to more people out there, because it's hard if you are

[00:50:44] alone and you want to go out alone and you don't have that community, it can be pretty hard to find

[00:50:50] the right sports and the right ways to go. And you need some guidance. It's, it just makes it so much

[00:50:55] better. It makes it safer, way more fun and yeah, definitely better. And then you build friendships

[00:51:00] with people from around the world and, and you get to build a community. Yeah. Yeah. And I think

[00:51:05] that's something that's, that we've been a little bit now with, we're a little bit more isolated to

[00:51:12] begin with, uh, with technology, it's isolated us a little bit more. So it's nice that we're having

[00:51:17] kind of these things that are starting to bring us back to being, yeah, we need friends.

[00:51:22] And the good thing about falling is that there's tons of space out there. I mean, imagine we're

[00:51:27] doing downwind and you can place a thousand foilers in there and it's not crowded, you know what I mean?

[00:51:34] So, um, it's not like we are all in the same surf sport at, at exactly the right point. Um, so even if

[00:51:42] we go surf falling, there's, there's so much more space compared to regular surfing, you know?

[00:51:48] True. Um, so, so that, that also helps to bring people together because, um, yeah, it's, it's easier

[00:51:54] to share if you have more, more space. That's very true. Anything else you want to chat about today?

[00:52:00] No, I'm, I'm, that's good. Well, Hey, I want like, thanks a lot for coming on and,

[00:52:06] and sharing your story and, uh, just hanging out and just getting to know kind of one another.

[00:52:12] That's one of the things I love about hosting is I just get to meet cool people and listen and,

[00:52:16] uh, our community does as well. So thanks a lot for coming on.

[00:52:20] Yeah. Thanks for having me. And, um, yeah, follow for only

[00:52:24] Actually, let's finish by that. Like what are, what's your handle? Do you have a website as well?

[00:52:29] No, no website, no, nothing, no YouTube, just go on Instagram and follow at foil only.

[00:52:36] All right, everybody. Let's get her done. That's where I share my stories and my, that's my diary.

[00:52:42] We'll put up a link on the, on the show notes and stuff, but, uh, but yeah, man. All right. We'll talk soon.

[00:52:48] See you.