Episode #91 - Daniel Paronetto aka FoilRat

Transcript:

Luc Moore (00:00.238)
think everything is off.

Luc Moore (00:21.636)
All right, Welcome.

Daniel Paronetto (00:25.891)
Thanks for having me.

Luc Moore (00:27.829)
Yeah, absolutely. Let's do that again. say absolutely every fucking time. Well, shit, Mike's falling down. All right. All right. All right. We're good. Hey, man. Hey, thanks for joining us.

Daniel Paronetto (00:43.841)
Yeah, no worries. Thanks for having me, Luke.

Luc Moore (00:46.541)
We're going to deep dive into Parawing Town tonight. I think that's going to be quite fun.

Daniel Paronetto (00:53.173)
Yes, yes, I've been frothing on the para wing very much so, so I'm happy to talk about para wing for as long as you want me to.

Luc Moore (01:00.205)
That's Foil rot. Where did that come out of?

Daniel Paronetto (01:06.019)
Yeah, foil rat. I think for when I was thinking about just getting a handle for Instagram or something like that, it was like, how do how do I kind of approach foiling in general? How do I, you know, want to to be thinking about this sport? And I kind of see myself as a little bit of a lab rat. So that's where I came from, thinking about just running experiments and like trying new things and not really having any any kind of

preconceived idea of what's gonna feel good or be good, you know, like I think foiling taught me a lot since the beginning I Looked at winging the first time. I'm like, my god, that's grim. I'm never gonna do it and then like a couple months later I was like all into winging right so I think for that comes from that idea of just experimenting and just not not just Not have not saying no to anything basically

Luc Moore (01:49.111)
Yeah.

Luc Moore (02:03.671)
Was this your first interaction with wind sports or?

Daniel Paronetto (02:07.926)
Yeah, so like my background with wind sports, my first wind sport was kite foiling. When I was younger, like in my teens, I kind of used to wakeboard and really enjoyed that. And I learned how to kite surf back in Brazil, but not really in a, like I was a weekend kind of kite surf. went to a location where kite surfing was, was good. I do it for a little while then be like three months without doing it. But then when I went to uni, I studied industrial design and I got.

I of got more into products and I really loved everything involved in kitesurfing and that's when kitesurfing became a thing for me. I developed like a board and a harness for my thesis. I was heavily into it. Really into like the wake style and all that stuff and was watching all the videos, space monkeys and Lou Wayman doing like these amazing things on a two line kite and I'm like, my God.

Luc Moore (03:03.062)
Nice.

Daniel Paronetto (03:06.028)
Cause like that crossover of wakeboarding into kite surfing. And then when I moved to Australia, that's when I saw foiling for the first time. There's a bunch of guys that do a lot of racing here with those big kites and like, you know, doing 50 Ks on the water and I'm like, my God, but I never liked it. I thought it was kind of an old person sport in a way. And I'm like, I'll get into it when I break my knees or, know, when I'm old or whatever.

Luc Moore (03:33.42)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (03:35.491)
And then one of our friends here, he's a professional kite surfer. He's like the park league champion. I don't know if you know him, you and Jasper, but he's the kite designer for national and he has family. lives here and he lives in the gorge now and he comes down every summer. And one of the summers he was kite foiling and I'm like, dude, what are you doing? Like you're a hardcore wake style rider. What are you doing on a foil?

Luc Moore (03:44.661)
Mm.

Daniel Paronetto (04:05.974)
and he's like, no, it's great. Like, you you should try it. So I tried it. And that summer I learned how to kite surf, kite foil, and I never touched a twin tip after that. I had two sessions on a twin tip after that day. And so I bit my tongue. Yeah. I bit my tongue big time on that one. and then spend kind of like a year just kite foiling. And it took me from this very small part of the Bay that we used to.

Luc Moore (04:21.161)
It looked good, huh?

Daniel Paronetto (04:35.714)
kitesurfing, like this flat water spot near the pier that it was cool to do, you know, the tricks and was, was a good little spot for that. And then when I got on the foil, I got out of that Marina and just started exploring the Bay doing longer runs. And I was like, my God, like there's, there's a lot here to, be, to be had. So started surfing little waves on a kite and loving that. And then I saw winging and again, took the same judgment approach and I like, dude,

Luc Moore (05:02.73)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (05:03.806)
And this was you in coming back again the next year with some wings. I'm like, God, that's a grim, man. What are you doing? And I would just watch people holding the wings and just standing on boards. I'm like, I'm never going to do that. And then I bit my tongue again and started winging. And that's all I did for the next year. So got really into winging. Winging is awesome. Winging is absolutely awesome. And for me here in the Bay,

Luc Moore (05:22.706)
It was fun.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (05:31.637)
It was the best way for me to surf. Like I really always looked at prone foilers and I'm like, my God, that's the ultimate, right? Like riding away on a foil with nothing really, like just that purity and you know, not having a wing, not having a kite, nothing to propel you was really attractive to me. So I found the wing the best means for me to do that on downwind runs. So once I started winging, the first thing that I wanted to do was go out in the bay and just flag the wing.

and just try to surf as much as I could. So that's kind of like how I got introduced to downwinding. And then after that, I got into prone, like, and I made, think at that time it was kind of like COVID during that time. And personally, I was going through a lot of stuff and I made a commitment to myself that I knew what would bring me happiness would just to be in the water every day. I just wanted to be in the water every day. And I think foiling allows you to do that if it's not windy.

we would go out and do dog starts. If it was windy, we would be on a kite or a wing. If there's no wind, we would go down the coast and prone and try to catch some waves. But then always trying to do what I wanted to do closer to home, which is in Melbourne, in a bay. That's when I was exposed to down windy and I'm like, my God, now I can surf without a wing because, know.

You know how it is going downwind with a wing. It gets in the way and it's a great way to get into the sport. But if you want that purity, like I was just trying to get as close as I could to proning, downwinding gave me that. And then I'm like, all right, I'm committed. I'm going to learn how to downwind. So I went through the whole process of learning how to paddle. Going through that is a mission on its own. And it is, and it's...

Luc Moore (07:02.899)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (07:24.007)
I've heard it's pretty tough,

Daniel Paronetto (07:27.936)
Like I had no paddling experience from my past sports, like apart from being on a little stop on a holiday, which is not really what you want. so for me, like I got out on the board the first day and I was literally paddling in circles and like, what is this? I put the foil on wrong. What is this? Like, why, why is this not going straight? So then I, you you go online and you're like, okay, J strokes. Okay, cool. So we, so I had to learn everything from, from scratch.

Luc Moore (07:44.84)
Yeah, me too. Me too.

Daniel Paronetto (07:56.311)
But I'm happy I did and it was, I think it's a great skill to have. but it takes a long time for you to be confident. Like it took me at least six to eight months to go out in the water and not think about, am I going to get on foil? Like with the foil that I have with the wind, you know, like it takes, you can get up, but you're on a huge foil. Then the performance is not what I wanted in my head. I wanted to surf and, you know, being on a

1200 or 1400 square meter foil wasn't really what I wanted, but those were the foils that would get me up. So it took me a long time to get to the point where I'm like not thinking about paddle ups anymore and thinking about performance. So I did that for, I don't know, another year or so. And that's when I had a little experience with a trainer kite. I had my son's trainer kite in my van.

And we were just mucking around at Brighton beach one day and I'm like, I'm just going to try to put this little trainer kite up and see what happens. And then I got on my downwind or board and I was just trying to get up on it. And it's a double skin kind of trainer kite. So like once it touched the water, like it was just horrible and heavy and wouldn't fly. But that was my first little hint of parowinging, like just playing around with my son's trainer kite. And I had, I really didn't pay too much attention to it, but it was.

something that I could be something and then maybe like four months later I saw the pocket wings and I don't know if you know the pocket wings but they were like a system that had two lines and two pulleys so you kind of like so you and yeah yeah so when I saw the pocket when I got my god look there it is like that that's that's the thing you know like and when I started looking into it a little bit more

Luc Moore (09:38.406)
Yeah, do you remember that? Yeah. I saw it at AWSI last year.

Daniel Paronetto (09:52.993)
I noticed that it was more for people to just get up and then go down-winding, but it didn't have that upwind ability. So I was like, it was, it's funny how something that it was like 5 % off of what I had in my mind and I completely dismissed it. And I should have, should have tried it, but not too long after that, I think another six months or whatever. That's when I saw the BRMs and what Greg developed.

Luc Moore (09:59.986)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (10:20.138)
and I saw some videos of the crew in Maui like going up wind and then when it's like when I saw someone lean on a para wing and I could see that like I'm like he's actually he's he's doing it he's going up wind so it was it was crazy I was like I was obsessed with it and I spent probably like two hours just looking into it online and then got some videos and it was just I couldn't believe that they were doing it and I was like

trying to understand how much upwind are they going upwind or they not and then I saw them catching waves and then I'm like all of sudden I saw them depower it and like get rid of it and my head just blew up I'm like what what is that and it was almost like everything that I wanted like in this little package that made sense it looked good it had the depowering it looked familiar because it was kind of like a kite

Luc Moore (10:58.952)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (11:18.742)
It had the upwind and the de-powering ability so you could surf without having the wind. Like everything came together. And then I literally went online and bought one. like that two hours that I was searching, I went on the BRM website and just got my first pair.

Luc Moore (11:26.705)
Hmm.

Luc Moore (11:39.464)
Sick. Wow. So that was your first experience. It is incredibly fun. like, yeah, like Enzis, thanks a lot for Enzis for sending one out for testing. We've been riding that one out here in Mexico. it took me a little bit of time to get used to it because I hadn't ridden, I'm not a kiter, so I can snow kite and stuff, but it so it took a little bit of an adaptation period, which I think it is for all of us. But what a fun little...

Daniel Paronetto (11:44.992)
It's good.

Daniel Paronetto (11:51.787)
Yep.

Daniel Paronetto (12:04.438)
Yeah.

Luc Moore (12:07.08)
past time to kind of, would climb up two kilometers and then my foil wasn't as conducive and we're gonna get into foils after as for pure riding, like I would need a bit of power, right? And the swell is a bit smaller, but yeah, super fun little thing stowed away and stuff. I just kind of pull it in. I don't have a pouch for it or anything, but so you started on the...

Daniel Paronetto (12:25.622)
Yep. What was the hardest thing initially when you first touched it? I always like to ask that because when people see it and they don't have a kiting background, I feel like the kite or the para wing control doesn't come instinctively. You kind of feel like you have to understand that you have to have a little bit of pressure on the real lines, on the front lines for it to actually be stable and...

So how did you find that first initial initial crack?

Luc Moore (12:58.407)
I probably have maybe four hours on a big kite and about, I don't know, a couple of winters snow kiting with a 1.7 or a two meter trainer. So I have that, but I wasn't expecting the vertical up and down. So like that threw me off. And then as soon as I did up and down, it's okay. then here's where I have to put my hand, right? And then once you figure that out, you're like, I steer it like a joystick. okay. That's not bad.

Daniel Paronetto (13:23.904)
Yeah, yep.

Luc Moore (13:26.341)
And then my first session, I was just too tight with my whole upper body, right? Like I was just too locked in, which then obviously fatigue muscles and I was exhausted and sore. But as I got better at it, then they were just little things that you would intuitively kind of pick up. this makes sense. like maybe when it's nuking out, what I would do is I would just pull the release, get on my board, pull it towards me, like all these little things that you learn.

Daniel Paronetto (13:30.946)
Hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (13:38.53)
You

Daniel Paronetto (13:51.936)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (13:55.96)
and then figuring out the first harness and how do I hook in and where do I put my line and all that was super fun. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (14:01.794)
Yep. Yeah, it's awesome. I love that beginning phase of any sport where you see the potential, you see what it could be, and you're trying to figure it out. And nobody knows. I love, like, I've never been part of a sport that we're actually seeing it in the inception. And surely there are people that did this like five years ago and there's photos coming up of all these kind of parowings back in the day. But I think now in like end of 2024, start of 25 is where parowinging is a thing.

Like it's a thing now. It's not like, it's not going to go away. There's enough momentum that it's going to become something. And to be part of something that's really starting and there's no way to do it. There's a right way to do it. I'm loving that. It's the best thing about it for me.

Luc Moore (14:43.526)
And you can do multiple things. So based on where you're at, I sometimes didn't feel like pumping out my wing. So I would just go for a kite cruise with it, right? Like I would go cruise kite and I would keep myself hooked into it. And then I would go downwind like you would in a kite, go across the window and stuff and do that. And that was fun. And then zip back up upwind. And other days when the swell was bigger, you unhook and you...

Daniel Paronetto (14:53.825)
You

Yep.

Daniel Paronetto (15:04.226)
Mmm.

Daniel Paronetto (15:12.343)
Yeah.

Luc Moore (15:12.634)
you stow it, so like there's so many different applications that are incredibly fun and it is just starting, like we're getting to see these V1s, like I'm curious and they're good, like they're stable, they're strong, like I was concerned about taking it in 25 some knots because you're looking at that and you're like, okay, all right, we're doing it.

Daniel Paronetto (15:24.887)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (15:37.411)
You're strapping on to what feels like a two line kite really because that thing is kind of like on and off and it is like once you put it up in the sky it's like okay here we go and it doesn't stop. You know it's on and there's no D power like a kite that you can just sheet out and alright it's at 12 it's fine. No at 12 it's pulling you in 25 knots.

Luc Moore (15:41.377)
Exactly. Yeah.

Luc Moore (15:48.791)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (15:57.006)
It's pulling. Yeah. But I found, so for the Enzis model, they do have that safety release that comes right into the center of the bar, which you know. So what I found the easiest way was just to pull the safety. The kite would sit there or the wing would sit there. I would get on my board, pull it towards me, pop it up and boom, I would be going. So that alleviated that initial pull concern, which I think every...

Daniel Paronetto (16:10.881)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (16:17.58)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (16:21.334)
Yeah, and you'd be on your board already.

Luc Moore (16:24.161)
Exactly, which I think a lot of them so that wasn't a big deal at all. everything else I think you just need to put in some time and figure out what angles to attack the wind on. And I think everything else just comes but for the three of them like you've ridden the Flow, you've ridden BRM, you've ridden the ENZUS. Are there any others that we don't know of that you've gotten to try?

Daniel Paronetto (16:47.434)
Not really apart from that little trainer kite. But yeah, I want to try to get my hands on everything that's coming out. There's, know, to Coombs coming out with one triple seven has one. There's another brand that came out with a double skin version of it, which has a very intricate bar that sheet like has a little bit of a deep power with pulleys. And I'm not quite sure the name of the brand, but they're all kind of kind of coming out with these new concepts and

Luc Moore (16:50.18)
Okay.

Luc Moore (17:00.43)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (17:10.311)
interesting.

Daniel Paronetto (17:16.702)
you can see how they're kind of going into different places where they will perform and outperform each other. But those are the three that I have written. BRM, Flow, and Ansys, the Roger.

Luc Moore (17:30.276)
Overall experiences with all of them fairly positive, like all three companies have put in so much work. I think we can kind of say that they've done a great job entering the market.

Daniel Paronetto (17:41.389)
look, absolutely. And look, they will all have things that they do better than like other pair wings and they outperform each other in different areas. But you just have to like give so much props to these companies that are putting so much money, time and launching things so quickly. Like from the first pair wing that came out, that was the BRM. And I think it was around like late last year.

Luc Moore (17:50.744)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (18:10.494)
And it kind of got the whole industry off guard. everybody, when they saw that, they're like, God, okay, we need to do one. Because he did something that I think, it was so close, it was there, it was kind of in front of everyone's face already, but he put it into a package and posted these videos that people could see how the whole thing could work with the upwind, with the stowing, riding a small board, you know, like all those things just opened up.

Luc Moore (18:18.436)
I know.

Daniel Paronetto (18:39.326)
all of these foilers are like my god we need to get into it but then you know flow i think was kind of like the second one launching their stuff and they come from a paragliding background so they have years of r &d in that space and they did a different approach and then ens is just kind of putting a lot of r &d and kind of changing like their whole year of development and i heard in one of their podcasts i think it was with you

Luc Moore (19:01.431)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (19:04.618)
Or was it with you? I kind of remember. But they were saying like, we didn't have the, the, the parowing in the plan. Yeah. And I watched that and I'm like, that's what we need. Right. So, huge props for all of those companies. These, all the parowings work and yeah, for sure. Like we, just need to, we need companies to think like that and to, want to put money into these new things. I think that's why foiling is so great. Like so much to explore and that willingness to try.

Luc Moore (19:06.475)
Yeah, it's true. Yeah, Patrick. Yeah.

Luc Moore (19:15.512)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (19:33.814)
Yeah, hats off to all of those companies.

Luc Moore (19:36.163)
Now getting into the basics of let's say board choice and foil choice. Cause currently right now, like I'm riding a 70 liter KT from 23 and it's five foot long. And I have a 1230 surf foil from North and it works. just need a bit more power to get going.

but I did try a board that was a bit narrower and a bit longer. And obviously you do get a bit more propulsion and it does help you get going a little bit. But my next question, which is what I've been talking to everybody about, I'm gonna sell my 1230 surf oil, cause I primarily ride an 830 or smaller now. What do I get in, let's say the North lineup for this new downwind trend? Like I'm still looking into it. I think they have a downwind 900 that I'm gonna look at.

Daniel Paronetto (20:08.108)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (20:18.657)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (20:30.423)
but I didn't know how big to go. And I think everybody is starting to ask those same questions.

Daniel Paronetto (20:30.454)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (20:35.818)
Yeah, look, think gear is a tough one to talk about because it involves so much. involves like what winds are you going to go out on? What type of parawing? Yeah, like what kind of parawing do you want to do? Do you want to do downwinding? Do you just want to zip around and do tacks and get technical with it, you know, and like be more of a winger that you go out and you just do a session in the same spot? Do you want to wide ride?

Luc Moore (20:40.716)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (20:44.767)
All that stuff, yeah.

Luc Moore (21:00.749)
Very true.

Daniel Paronetto (21:02.208)
waves and that's a different thing as well. So I think in general what I tell everyone is like when I learn I just put my biggest board and my biggest wing, my biggest foil right and I just want to get up. If you're not up you're not experiencing the sport so you can't really start understanding what's working or not. So having a big board is good but I think you can almost get away

by getting a demo at a shop and having those three sessions, which is really all you need, those three initial sessions on a big board to get used to it, very much like winging, and you kind of outgrow those boards pretty quickly. When you think about what is more of a performance style board, I think having something that's one-to-one weight to volume ratio is really good. So I'm like 82, 80 kilos with wetsuits and stuff. I'm counting 85.

Luc Moore (21:38.947)
That's right.

Daniel Paronetto (21:56.355)
So I have an 85 liter board that you get up on pretty much any wind right now And and that's working really well. I think a 60 liter board is where I want to get to So I'll just give the specs the the 85 liter board is a 510 by 18 wide and So it's a very narrow board So it tracks really well in the water and it's a little bit a little bit of a longer board. So that helps as well

Luc Moore (22:18.691)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (22:25.758)
And at 85 liters, even being narrow, you can balance on it. So I think it's great kind of way to think about it. One-to-one ratio, narrow and long, that'll work. And then if you want to get a little bit more performance out of it, I'm trying, I'm talking to Amos, which I get most of my boards done by Amos, to do something around a 6.0.

Luc Moore (22:37.218)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (22:52.77)
19 and a half, so just a little bit wider at 60 or 50 liters, but I want a thin. Yeah, like it's a it's those dimensions are in my head and I think I want something that's more of a thinner board to feel a little bit more connected to the foil. Nothing. I don't want something that's too too much thicker than four inches. I think it's just too much so.

Luc Moore (23:00.865)
interesting.

Daniel Paronetto (23:19.158)
That's where those are the specs that I have in my head. But if you're talking about the one board quiver, one to one volume to weight ratio I think is great, narrow and long. That'll get you going. And if you're a downwinder and you also paddle, I'm sure you have a downwinding board that you can use. Or if you sub-surf, you can also use that to start out with. And there are some light days that I still go out on my downwinder board.

Luc Moore (23:30.399)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (23:49.407)
Because I'm, yeah, what I'm liking more is a smaller power wing, not having to have a big power wing in my head and my hands to get up. And then once you're up, you're totally overpowered because of that wind range. So sometimes, because I'm used to a downwind or board, it's fine.

Luc Moore (23:49.632)
Yeah, it does.

Luc Moore (24:02.177)
Mm-hmm.

I'm on... Yeah. I'm on a three meter wing and a three meter pair of wing, that's all I ride.

Daniel Paronetto (24:12.404)
Yeah, that's perfect. I mean, that's what that's where it shines like in strong winds, like to go out in 12 knots on a pair of wing. You're going to you're going to swear that thing for the whole session. So the bigger pair of wings, like the five meters, I think they're more geared towards the bigger, bigger riders. So if. Yeah, I don't I don't like I I've written the five point five and it's a big pair.

Luc Moore (24:32.053)
Baker Riders, yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (24:41.122)
And I've written it in 10 knots, 12 knots, but you start running into some issues when you're like jiving and there's no wind to keep it up and you're jiving, you're going downwind. That apparent wind just goes to nothing. And the thing just kind of falls onto your head. Like you just wear the pair of wings and you're like, okay. So there's, think the bigger pair of wings for the bigger guys and anything over 15, 18 knots, you're going to start to

Luc Moore (24:50.389)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (25:06.689)
I find the same thing though, like I'm fortunate to be in a spot that's quite windy all winter, but six meters and five meter wings even, they do get quite big and heavy and cumbersome when flipping and turning around. So if you're fortunate enough to get some good wind, then that's definitely something. What were your initial thoughts about, because I know foil choices, could just, everybody is going to pick a different foil base for what they're looking at, but

Daniel Paronetto (25:35.49)
Hmm.

Luc Moore (25:36.811)
What about initial safety concerns or initial, any kind of thoughts in that area?

Daniel Paronetto (25:40.801)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (25:44.375)
Yeah, look, the parrowing is something that will allow you to put yourself in a great position to do downwinders in spots that for you to get to those spots without the parrowing, might take a little bit more skill. So if you're on a paddle, you have to kind of work a little bit to get two kilometers offshore, three kilometers offshore, whatever to...

to start getting into the high performance areas where the wind's pumping, the bumps are pumping, no flat spots or anything. So if you're a beginner and you're putting yourself in those kind of places without the appropriate understanding of the risks, I think that could be a concern. Three kilometers offshore, you need to have a life vest on. And full disclosure here, like a lot of the videos I'm not wearing are.

Luc Moore (26:24.523)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (26:35.082)
Life vest, but I'm doing shore runs like I'm literally 500 meters from shore Telling the drone pilot to get shots from the From the land out so it you know has that feeling that you're out there, but I'm not I'm like 500 meters from shore if I'm doing anything in open ocean down the coast or anything over 10 kilometer downwind er I have a life vest on and we have to kind of

try to set an example about it because we had a very close call here where two downwinder, probably one of the two best downwinder guys here in Melbourne, they were riding together and they crashed and the board kind of, you know, the foil just picked up and kind of hit the guy in the head and he got knocked out. So if he was riding alone, like what do you do if you don't have a life vest? know, you're in.

Luc Moore (27:24.479)
well

Daniel Paronetto (27:30.381)
pretty big trouble and even then with someone with him, if you don't have any means to communicate to shore, how do you get out of that situation? So they always ride with a phone. I think that's always important to have a waterproof case if you're doing these downwinders. And I have this one, I just separated some gear so you guys can see. I have no affiliation with anything, but this is just like the cheapest one I found and it works pretty well. And I just have it like in my wetsuit.

Luc Moore (27:31.049)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (27:51.13)
Nice.

Daniel Paronetto (27:59.335)
around the neck in my wetsuit. And if I'm doing a long run, I'll share my locations with my partner. I'll share my location with a group of downwind guys that we have here. So everybody knows that you're out there. they track your runs and make sure that you get to shore. Those kind of provisions, if you're a beginner to the sport, might not know how important they actually are. And having some visibility, this is just a rashie that we have.

Luc Moore (28:12.594)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (28:26.279)
Yeah, that's true too.

Daniel Paronetto (28:28.374)
I just a high fizz, you know, like it, I had an experience on the wing that I was doing a downwind or a very long one, trying to cross the bay from the top to the bottom. And in the middle of the bay, the wind dropped and I couldn't get up. And it took me three and a half hours to get to shore and I was dehydrated. Like it was okay. But if I was uncomfortable in that situation, I would have freaked out. Like

Luc Moore (28:54.173)
Yeah, that takes years to get to the point. I think it took me sick. was terrified of water before I started all this stuff, but it took me probably six or seven years to sit in the Great Lakes. And I remember it, because it was like three years ago or something. I was sitting there in 25 knots and like head high swell and I was calm. And I was like, what's going on here? What happened? I'm either going to die real soon, because you won't have that fear anymore. Or I can

Daniel Paronetto (29:15.169)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (29:20.384)
Yeah

Luc Moore (29:23.943)
finally start now to sit there, because that's one of the funnest things about foiling, wing foiling and stuff, is you can sit in a bay and just let the swell roll from under you and just sit there and relax, right? And be there with the elements and be out there and it's super peaceful. So when that happened, then I was like, okay, so now you have to take precautions for your precautions that were there, you don't think about them anymore because you feel safe.

Daniel Paronetto (29:31.234)
Mm.

Luc Moore (29:47.902)
So that's one thing to note. And I know there's a few people that got caught with foils and I know brands are coming out with some more foil proof wetsuits. That'll be a bit more cut proof, all of that kind of thing. Yeah, helmets obviously are a huge thing because you never know. So I always have like a very kind of shiny light green helmet that I wear. It's still doesn't, it'll still be difficult to spot you, but at least you have something on your head just in case.

Daniel Paronetto (29:48.214)
Hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (29:57.955)
Hmm. that's pretty cool.

Daniel Paronetto (30:09.57)
Mm.

Luc Moore (30:17.182)
Cause the one thing with the parowing is the first time I went out is when I was winging, I fell and obviously I let go of stuff or with the parrowing I held onto it. So I fell off and my board kept running. And then because it kept running, I didn't cross my arms in front of my face. And then the first time in like four years of winging, the board cracked me just below the nose.

Daniel Paronetto (30:32.214)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (30:42.892)
Yeah.

Luc Moore (30:43.161)
knee starts bleeding and I was like, did I break it? Am I okay? Whatever. And then, but I'm still holding onto the pair of wings. So was like, you can let it go. It's okay. It's not going to sink. amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (30:46.274)
You

Daniel Paronetto (30:52.31)
You can. Yeah, you can let it go. And Ensys did a good job with that little leash that you can connect it to. I think if you don't have that, all you need to do as well is put something, connect something to the brake lines. And if you just let go, it'll work. It'll also work. I don't wear a leash because to me, it's such a tangle hazard when I'm trying to de-power and all that stuff. And honestly, if I'm in a bad situation, I let it go.

Luc Moore (31:05.381)
An end. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (31:22.26)
It doesn't sink immediately. It'll take like at least five, 10 minutes to actually collect water and begin to sink where you can't recover it anymore. If you're in a shore break with waves, maybe that time is a little bit different. But I don't see it as something that you let go and it just sinks. So I just don't wear any leash. I just rather get rid of it if I need to. Haven't had that happen to me yet. But I did fall into the para wing, which was totally unexpected.

I was riding and I don't know what happened. I think I just going too fast down a wave and I was trying to depower it and I fell into it in the water and it just kind of wrapped around my face and with all the lines and then I'm like, all right, this is how I die. Cool. And it was just a weird feeling to have something wrapped around your face. So like you don't know what you don't know until you face it. So yeah, like get out with some safe gear. I have

Luc Moore (32:04.632)
No way.

Daniel Paronetto (32:22.67)
In my life vest, I carry the POB, so the personal location beacon. So that's what you can activate if you're in really a distressful point in your pair winging journey that you're like, okay, I need to get a chopper here. I'm not going to get out of this. It'll send the signal and rescue can find you through GPS. It's a little beacon that I highly recommend everybody having it. And the other thing that I carry now...

Luc Moore (32:47.984)
What's the brand of that, sorry? What is it? Do you have one on you? Yeah, that'd be awesome to see it.

Daniel Paronetto (32:52.354)
I have it here. Yeah, so this like this is the vest that I carry. So it's this It's called rescue me from Ocean Signal And I just have it in the vest like it's it's connected there. It doesn't go anywhere in the vest. I carry now this cat tourniquet as well

Luc Moore (33:12.732)
So for folks just on audio, you can hop over to YouTube. Dan's just showing us his vest right now.

Daniel Paronetto (33:21.216)
Yeah, so, this just lives there and it's kind of hard to get out. like, I'm not going to go out without this. I carry a cat tourniquet as well. There was, the story of this guy in the gorge that, he had a really silly fall where he kind of stalled his wing and fell backwards. And I think his tail caught his leg and like ruptured an artery. And he was just like having a really bad time out there. And I think he like bystanders were there, helped them out of the wall.

Luc Moore (33:27.868)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (33:43.802)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (33:51.319)
wrapped a tourniquet around his leg. So this is something small, look, that's easy enough to carry. I have a whistle in here as well. So like that's kind of all the stuff that I carry. There's water in the back, which is good for those long runs. But you can see how like, if you're a beginner, you're like, you don't need any of that. And you do have to invest a little bit in the vest and like that person, personal location beacon is around.

$300 Australian, something like that. it's not that bad, it's, yeah, it's a bit of money, but it's your safety. So for sure, like.

Luc Moore (34:21.611)
all right. It's not crazy. No, it's something good to have. Because here in Mexico, we're just doing shore runs. it might be, you could be a hundred meters off or 200 meters off, like nothing big. So we can stay close to shore. But even then I wear a helmet and an impact all the time that floats me. But I can't imagine.

Daniel Paronetto (34:40.194)
Mm.

Daniel Paronetto (34:44.673)
Yeah.

Luc Moore (34:46.305)
going out further. So it's nice to see kind of the precautions that you're taking that people might not see on videos or Instagram or elsewhere.

Daniel Paronetto (34:54.08)
Yeah, like, and we try to do, like you said, in these videos, you know, we have to be close to shore so the drone can actually get to us. and we film in certain angles that it looks kind of like, you know, cinematic and all that stuff. if we're doing runs that are significant, anything over 10 Ks or even smaller, like if it's 10 Ks and I'm going out, have a live live fest, you know, it's not gonna, it's not gonna hinder the performance and you just, you know, making sure that you're safe.

Luc Moore (35:01.135)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (35:21.467)
What about pumping the thing? Like I've been trying that and practicing that and it actually pumps like I would just pump vertical towards pulling towards me and it actually does decent. The Ensis does that fairly well. I haven't tried the other two. I've seen a couple of guys kind of do it as well. I know you have that wind range where it works, but what's your experience with getting it in light wind or even heavy winds for these V1s?

Daniel Paronetto (35:33.473)
Mmm.

Daniel Paronetto (35:37.004)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (35:44.321)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (35:51.169)
Yeah, so the pumping, I think there's a way to pump that's very efficient with the Parawing because it's not like a wing that you could just like really be aggressive with it. I think there's a little slot in getting out of the water and in that foiling motion that is good for the pumping. The bigger the Parawing, the easier it is to pump as well. The 5.5 in 12 knots, I can pump and it's just a truck, like it'll pull.

Luc Moore (36:00.548)
Hmm.

Luc Moore (36:19.579)
really? Hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (36:20.618)
Yeah, and the smaller the parrowing, the less of that pull you have. It's more of a short snap of force being applied and then it kind of, you know, loses a little bit of power until the wind fills it up again. So the way I kind of pump and try to get up and get on foil is once I move up with the foil, when I'm going down, that's when I actually give the parrowing a pump to produce that speed. And then I work my way up.

with the pump again and when I'm at the highest point of the pump, I'll pull it again and just having that motion happen in synchronicity where you're going down with speed and trying to get up with speed. So you can pump the parawing, but getting up on it, it's more of a leg pumping movement than pumping the parawing like you pump a wing. You see some people pumping the wing super aggressively and that works well. But with the parawing, I think you're like,

Luc Moore (37:15.982)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (37:18.018)
30 % reliant, 40 % reliant on the pair of wing and the rest you're kind of making that motion and gaining speed through the foil, through the board to actually get you higher and then you can get up on foil. So it's bit of a different technique and I'm still exploring that as well. But I think it's a cautious pump on the pair of wing. Otherwise you can lose control, you lose that power sometimes and it depends on the...

Luc Moore (37:40.57)
Yep.

Daniel Paronetto (37:48.161)
on the conditions, if it's gusty, it's, I just wait for a gust. I'm just patient with it, you know, like there's no reason to rush it. I think when I came into winging from kiting, that was something that I needed to learn. Cause if I wanted to kite, I would loop the kite and I'm out, right? It's instant every time. And with the wing, I would fall and I would get up quickly on the board and I would get up quickly and I would try to get like, just relax, right? You don't have to.

Luc Moore (38:07.246)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (38:16.083)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (38:17.568)
Do it quickly. You can wait for your moment. Like you mentioned, you could sit on your board, have a look back. You could see the gusts coming towards you like in a day that, you know, it's not really good wind. And then when you see it, you're like, all right, this is my opportunity. You get up, you try it. If you don't do it, just get back, wait for that moment again, and make sure that you still have the stamina to keep going.

Luc Moore (38:40.269)
What have you done for harness and harness line?

Daniel Paronetto (38:44.982)
So harness, I'm not running a harness anymore. So I dropped it again because of the tangling kind of hazard that it causes, like the little hook in that harness. And I just put a little DeKind hook, a DeKind hook that actually flaps. So it's not like a solid piece of plastic. It has just a hook connected to...

Like a leash and if I'm prone on the board, it'll just move into the board not scratch the board that kind of stuff And I would use it at the in the front of the belt I don't have one with me right now, but I would put that in front of the belt and then if I turn the belt around That's where I'd stash it. But what I found was when I was riding And I'm doing turns and I have the parrowing in my hand. Sometimes that hook would get one of the parrowing lines and again

you're riding the last thing you want is things to get tangled. So I dropped the hook and I just got used to riding the Parallel Wing unhooked all the time. Even if I'm doing an upwinder, I'm happy with that feeling and I kind of got used to the arm pump that it gives you because it's physical. I think people that get into it, they'll be like, okay, this is actually quite, it's like riding unhooked on a kite for the whole session.

Luc Moore (40:00.097)
It is.

Daniel Paronetto (40:08.066)
I'm happy with that and also the one thing that I'm changing now is my leash. So I had those coil leashes, the waste leash that are coiled from the start of the leash all the way to the board. The lines get caught on that all the time. So I dropped that leash. I moved to an Invisaliche by Kaohi and that worked well, but it still has a little bit of a section that has the coil and it's the section that you connect to the waste.

you know, the section that you're going to get your lines wrapped into. And unfortunately, I still wrap my lines in that coil. So what I did was I removed the coil with the screws and I just got a normal surfboard leash. And I'm using that with a carabiner straight onto the waist harness, waist belt. And that's working really well.

Luc Moore (41:00.025)
All right. I haven't had too many tangle issues yet. So I'm running a ride engine kind of wingfoil harness. I got a mono line windsurfing stuff set up on my bar, which is working fine. And the ride engine has a sliding hook on it. So that just goes side to side. I've been surprised how easy they are, the ends this one, cause that's the only one that I've tried so far.

how easy it gets out of the water, how easy it repowers, even if it falls. Like my initial time I was in such light wind. So I didn't, but as soon as you have a decent breeze, that thing pops right out. So all those initial concerns that I had kind of went away. So far I can wing up wind 6K with no harness, but I feel a lot more relaxed, but I'm more kiting with it, right? Like if you're going on a true run, you're finding that

Daniel Paronetto (41:53.217)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (41:55.796)
All those things gone for you has been the easiest transition.

Daniel Paronetto (41:59.659)
Yeah, if you're doing a downwind run and you're doing the whole shuttle with a crew, just less is more. All I want to use the parowind for is to get up and I don't want to see it for the rest of the run. If I'm seeing it during the run, means that something's not going the way I want it to go. So yeah, if you're doing, but I, I'm kind of changing a little bit my, my like, not because I am focusing on it just because of what the parowind is allowing me to do. I'm doing a lot less.

Luc Moore (42:00.695)
Yeah.

Luc Moore (42:06.538)
Mm-hmm, that's

Luc Moore (42:11.522)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (42:16.236)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (42:29.236)
shuttling with people, which you have to figure out logistics and availability and all to, just go to a high performing spot and I do what you were saying. I'll go up wind and I don't even do like five case. I'll go two or four tax up wind and I'll get the best part of that section where the bumps are the highest and it's like shallow water and all like it where the bumps pick up. And I just session that area and I'm finding that well, if

Luc Moore (42:42.52)
Hmm.

Luc Moore (42:55.646)
fun.

Daniel Paronetto (42:58.43)
I used to do like in the downwinders here in the Bay, like let's say in 10 kilometer run, there are little sections that are high performing sections that if you know where they are, you know, for whatever reason, there's a sandbank or whatever, and the bumps get really good there. We would go on a downwind or we would try to aim for that section, ride it, but you keep going, right? With the paddle. But with the pair one now, like you just go to the high performing spot that you love to.

Luc Moore (43:08.897)
Hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (43:26.508)
to aim for in the downwind you're running, you just do that.

Luc Moore (43:27.957)
Yeah, you're right. Actually just keep laughing at that's true.

Daniel Paronetto (43:31.423)
Just keep lapping it 100 % so that's why i'm not wearing like the belt that much anymore as well if I go up when i'm doing like 300 400 meter upwind Let's say half a k And then i'm going downwind and yes, you can stow it in the belt. But when you put it into the belt If you don't really take care of how you're packing it It can when you take it out be like a spaghetti

You know, and there are ways for you to do that, that improve that, but it's not bulletproof. It's not like a hundred percent, you know, that you're going to get it out and it's going to be nice for you to redeploy. So I just forget about it. I'm like, if I'm going to spend 20 seconds doing that properly, it makes sense for a 10 kilometer run. But if I'm spending 20 seconds putting that thing in the bag and a little belt properly for a run, that's going to take, I don't know, a minute.

I know. I don't think it's worth it. So then I just keep it in my hand and you kind of get used to it as well. And I think if it's not, if it's not impeding your turns, it's fine. If it's getting in the way and you feel like, yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

Luc Moore (44:30.379)
Yeah.

Luc Moore (44:43.37)
What do you?

What did it take you a little bit of time to get used to kind of pulling in the lines and depowering? Like, do you just run straight down wind, depower? Do you pull one of the lines? Like, what was your experience with that?

Daniel Paronetto (44:53.026)
Hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (45:01.322)
Yeah, yeah, it definitely took me a little bit of time and I, the first few times that I did it, it was just a mess. Like I would do it too fast in a rush and I would just want to get rid of it as fast as I could because if you're down-winding, there's a lot for you to think about. Like you have to obviously stay on foil for those 20 seconds, half a minute, whatever it is, if it's taking a while. So it took me a little bit to get used to it.

I practice on shore to try to get a good technique and what I do today is... So let's go from the start, right? So if you're getting into a bump, I find that brushing off a little speed before you actually get into the bump is good. Like you don't fang it into a bump because when you're downwinding, you're very, let's say if you're a lot faster than the bumps, you put yourself in a position where you have to slow down.

and then work your way backwards to get back into it. And you can lose, yeah, yeah, you lose a little bit the flow with the speed of the bumps. So I try to match my speed to the bumps initially, and then like you're towing, get to a bump in a position that you're gonna ride it down, but not all the way down, right? You wanna be able to release that energy in the power wing. I grab all the lines from the real lines first, all the way to the canopy.

Luc Moore (46:01.578)
Yeah, you run out of hill.

Daniel Paronetto (46:26.786)
And by then, as soon as I do that, I'm already turning. I don't want to get to the low trough, right? I don't want to get to that spot because you put yourself in a little bit of a tricky place there. And by then, you know, if I'm tucking it in, then I go straight to putting the bar under my armpit and I grab. So I'm grabbing the lines with my left. I'll go to the backside of the parrowing and I'll grab the canopy and I'll grab all the lines from the back. So then I have.

all the lines in my other hand, and I tried to feed the rest of the parrowing into that little package. And then I stow and then if I redeploy, instead of trying to like chuck it, chuck it up in the air and like hope for the best, I just, I just opened it up and I let it sit there going down wind. So you don't activate it. Cause if you go across when it'll pick up when then it'll power up. I just let it sit for a while. Sometimes it just untangles. It kind of starts to like twist.

little twist in the line. And then when I feel it's good and the good thing about some of the pair of wings like the enses and the flow, they have that leading edge, which is a different color, which helps a lot. it helps so much. The BRM is great, but I would always look at my hand. I'm like, I have this ball of white cloth. Where is the leading edge? So when I see that the leading edge is kind of in a good position, then I start angling up wind and then it just catches air. Like it goes up pretty easily, but

Luc Moore (47:35.402)
Very true.

Daniel Paronetto (47:53.707)
It takes a little bit of time. So all of those things are worthwhile doing. If you're doing a downwind run, if I'm waves or something like I just hold on.

Luc Moore (48:01.3)
Now holding onto it, that in itself as well as another skill, because when I started, I would just hold onto the lines and I wouldn't hold onto enough of the material. And I found it would start to twirl and then you're into like, I mean, we're into a megaloop obviously when it comes down, loop when it comes out. Right? Yeah. You're like, all right. All right. But, what did you find with that? you pull further on it? So you grab, did you develop a technique that works the best for you?

Daniel Paronetto (48:06.014)
It is,

Daniel Paronetto (48:12.481)
Yes.

Daniel Paronetto (48:20.234)
It just starts to... Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (48:29.474)
Mmm.

There's two things there. There's one, where are you running the lines first? So if you grab from the rear lines, you're going to end up in the trailing edge of the power wing. If you ride, if you depower it and you grab from the top down, you end up in the leading edge. So regardless of how you do it, if you're grabbing it from the back, I like to, once you know, you have it in your hand, you can grab the leading edge and just put it under your thumb.

Luc Moore (48:43.623)
Yes. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (49:02.774)
That helps me heaps because it kind of inhibits the parowing from catching a little bit of air, wanting to fly, wanting to catch power. You kind of like break the, where it like fills up with air. So that helps doing a little bit of a pack down. Like if you grab it, just get the air out and then hold it. That also helps because you're bunching it up into a smaller package and then air doesn't get into it. So it doesn't really want to fly.

Luc Moore (49:30.708)
Yeah, good point.

Daniel Paronetto (49:32.615)
but yeah, with, with riding the lines up or down, it's hard because if it's really hard to get all the lines starting from the leading edge, you really have to like, just have it fall to do that. Sometimes it happens because you're going down and it just falls and you, you catch it. But normally I ride my lines all the way from the back. you can also just grab the front lines, which is something that, Greg, actually this is worth mentioning.

Luc Moore (49:43.378)
Hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (50:01.868)
Greg, he launched so many good videos when he launched the BRM that are on his website on how to depower, like just handling stuff like that that's so helpful. And he has something that's called the Surf Depower, where he just grabs the front lines. And when you do that, you're 100 % sure that what you have in your hand is the leading edge. You're not grabbing any other lines. But I tried that a few times.

is a little bit more prone to tangling with your gear like your hook and your coils and all that stuff. That's why I kind of scrapped using those things. And if you're riding for a very long wave for a long time, like you said, things start to happen with the lines and when you want to redeploy it, it's not really there. I personally, I like having all my lines in my hand. I stretch it out.

Luc Moore (50:38.109)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (50:53.696)
And I just balance myself with it. You know, if I'm doing turns, I just kind of have it as if I had a paddle in my hand and I keep those lines tension. That helps a lot.

Luc Moore (51:03.876)
Okay. So we've talked safety, getting up with it. Do you have them in front of you right now? All three pair wings?

Daniel Paronetto (51:14.068)
I have, I can grab them. I've got the flow. I got the flow with me. This is a three meter.

Luc Moore (51:20.445)
Yeah, we can give a quick show and tell. So they're going with different color leading edge, trailing edge, and then lines for the bar as well.

Daniel Paronetto (51:30.466)
Yeah, so these color-coded lines are a godsend for you to untangle. If you get into a really bad tangle, and I think you know what I mean when you get the lines wrapped around the back of the kite.

Luc Moore (51:41.939)
Yeah, I've had that before. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (51:45.013)
Yeah, it really helps for you to know what's the leading edge, what you're trying to chase. So this is really good. What else? mean, there's nothing really apart from the color coding and that leading edge. I think that's super helpful. ENSYS has that as well. BRM is just a white canopy. It makes it a little bit harder. And I think the other thing that the ENSYS did that was super smart, both the BRM and the flow of the bar.

Luc Moore (51:54.215)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (52:02.333)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (52:13.058)
They have these webbing like these little Velcro straps and yeah, you have the Ensys with you. If you pull that out, you'll notice that the bar has a little bit of a catch there, right? So if the lines get tangled and sometimes they do, they can snag in that little loop. But what Ensys did was they integrated the bar and the lines where the end of the bar has a little bit of a curvature.

Luc Moore (52:18.013)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (52:43.335)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (52:43.456)
that right there. So if the lines get snatched around that, they'll just run off that. And that's really smart. That was really good. It helps with when you're redeploying and sometimes one line is just one line is in the wrong position and you want to like just grab that line and sneak it out of there and keep going. Sometimes it gets caught in those little Velcro webbing there. And the the NCCS is really good that way. It just allows those lines to run off the bar.

So that's something that I think was really smart from them.

Yeah.

Luc Moore (53:19.686)
very very smart they have a nice little bag too like I like this little it's pretty nice and clean and easy and yes not bad

Daniel Paronetto (53:27.338)
Yeah, do you know what I have? I have here, have some, it's just like a show and tell session now, but so this is just like a regular kite bag, right? And this has a seven meter kite in and this is a four meter flow. Just the form factor of that. Like you can fit three of these in that space. for travel, traveling with a pair of wings is so easy.

Luc Moore (53:33.648)
Yeah, a little show and tell, yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (53:55.767)
Like you can chuck that in a board bag, like a whole quiver, three sizes. And I wouldn't travel with anything else as well. Like it makes it so easy for you to, like, if you have a little hatchback as well, you know, have a big car, like all those things, like it's not having to pump, like getting into the, to the beach. just put the way I go out is I just put it in my belt. If I have a belt or I just chuck it under my rashie, if I'm not using a belt, I just paddle out and I launch it in the water.

depending on the wind, it's across when I start from the land, but normally we get on shore and then I just paddle out a little bit and just chuck it in the air. Like all those things, not having to pump something is so nice. It's a small thing, but it's good.

Luc Moore (54:36.977)
Have you, yeah, it definitely is. Have you encountered Shore Break or any of that other stuff? Oh, just here one second. I think I got my neighbor wanting in here for second.

Daniel Paronetto (54:45.986)
Yeah. No worries.

Luc Moore (55:00.689)
What do we got here?

Daniel Paronetto (55:06.187)
Ooh.

Luc Moore (55:06.513)
Oh, we got some good Mexican food for later. Yes. I I'm getting spoiled with all the different flavors that we have here. It's pretty good stuff. Yeah, it's good stuff, Sorry, so we were, we, we're gonna cut, but shore break.

Daniel Paronetto (55:11.297)
nice.

Daniel Paronetto (55:19.459)
I'm a sucker for Mexican food.

Daniel Paronetto (55:32.098)
Mmm.

Luc Moore (55:32.365)
any kind of encountering that. Cause at my local launch here, I just kinda, it's super nice to just body drag over the reef and then you're out. But what is it like for, do you body drag over it? Do you stow it? Do you kinda?

Daniel Paronetto (55:41.162)
Yeah, there is.

Look, even in the bay...

So a shore break for us in the Bay is onshore winds, right? It just makes it really hard to get out. And if I am getting out in a certain spot that's onshore, I do exactly what I just told you. I still it in my belt. I make it through that shore break with my board. Once I'm out, I'll launch it and I'll just give, you know, an appropriate distance from the shore so I can get up and I'm not gonna get bogged down in the shore break again. In waves, and we've experienced this already in the coast here.

If you get caught in a big wave and I had like three sets come past once and I couldn't get out of there because unlike the wing, right? So you fall and you can grab the wind quickly and get out of that critical spot. Launching the parrowing takes a little bit of time, especially if it's in the water. And in a wave situation, if you get dragged by a wave and you get tumbled into the wave, the parrowing is not going to be in a good condition. You're going to have to untangle and all that stuff.

it is very tricky to be riding in a high performing wave spot. Cause if you get caught on the inside, you're going to get smoked for a little bit until you have enough of a break to get out of there. So what I want, what I think about doing is just, if I am in that situation, I don't try to relaunch. All I try to do is put the pair of wing in on top of my board and paddle out of that critical section because

Daniel Paronetto (57:15.758)
chances are you're going to get another one in the head and then it's just a mess. If you get three waves with the pair of wing and your tumbling in it, you're probably going to have to go to shore, untangle, reset and get out there again. So waves is tricky. but I also like kind of change where I ride. Like if I am on a wave and it's a big enough wave, you could always write that shoulder and not be in the whitewash. Cause if you get in the whitewash, the, you know, your foil is not going to work well either. So

depending on your spot, yeah, I don't know. The spots that we have here, when it gets big, it gets big and I just tend to ride a different part of the wave. So I'm not in that critical area. Getting out in wave situation is, yeah, I never have it deployed before I get out. I'd like to deploy it on the water where I'm in a safe spot.

Luc Moore (58:05.421)
Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, I haven't been in anything too crazy yet, maybe shoulder kind of high swell and then there's no short break to get out. So it is nice to be able to kind of body drag out in those situations, but I haven't been down to the beach yet to see what that would, that could be interesting, definitely. Is there anything else that you think people should know or would like to know about kind of getting into it?

Daniel Paronetto (58:15.074)
Mm.

Daniel Paronetto (58:27.052)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (58:34.882)
Uh, getting into it, think like anything like it will take some time. If you don't come with a winging background or a kiting background, it's a lot to learn. It's a lot to take in. think para winging will take off a lot with wingers like 2025. I'm sure that like 30 % of people who wing will own one pair of wing by the end of this year. Like I guarantee you, everybody will have at least one in their quiver. And I think the next year that

that number might double. they will. It's the best way for people who wing to get into downwind and a lot of people do that on the wing. They flag their wing and they want to serve. So you could do that with a very good understanding on how to get up and all that balance, all that stuff's kind of sorted. You know how to do that. So you're just changing the medium. And I think that's going to be great. So if you're coming from that background, like you can go into it with a lot of confidence that you're going to have fun and you're going to be able to

Luc Moore (59:24.079)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (59:33.997)
progress and get up and experience it quickly. If you're coming from a kiting background, I think you probably have a little bit less advantage in that regard because you still have to learn that balance on the board, that initial clunkiness of winging. You have to get over that. So you probably have to start with a bigger board and go through that route. Wingers, get whatever you're riding on the wing, whatever foil set up, whatever board, just buy a para wing.

Luc Moore (59:57.89)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (01:00:02.722)
Good, you don't have to buy a down-winding board, a paddle, learn how to paddle. All those things take time and they take money as well. Down-winding boards are expensive, paddles are expensive. They're like 600 bucks for a good one. And I'm like, God, okay.

Luc Moore (01:00:18.048)
Yeah. And your whole travel bag set up changes. Like if I'm going to sell, cause I went, I'll have my day bag plus my travel bags and I got to sell two board bags and then get two more plus a new board. It's like, goodness. this is a quite the, it's a big change over investment. If I want to get a one quiver board that I can travel with that is a little bit longer, a little narrower that does, that is still fun and not too long for, for

Daniel Paronetto (01:00:40.308)
Mm-hmm. 100%.

Luc Moore (01:00:47.534)
winging and like all of those kind of questions I'm running through and because I don't want to travel with but then you end up in windsurf land right with two boards and six masts and seven sails like I always do so it's like

Daniel Paronetto (01:00:48.716)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (01:00:58.27)
is 100%.

Daniel Paronetto (01:01:03.338)
A mast. my god, I didn't get into that. Like that would have been tough back in the day to travel with masts. Yep.

Luc Moore (01:01:09.098)
It's fun. It's a marriage. say kiting is, I mean, nevermind. But anyways, it is, you gotta work at it. You gotta definitely put in your time. And I am looking forward to windsurfing. It's been a while, but that's cool. Okay, so we kind of going over a lot of the basics then. And it's nice to know that all three, you give your thumbs up for all three. They're just unique in their design. And some people might like one more, might like the other one more.

Daniel Paronetto (01:01:17.442)
Mm.

Luc Moore (01:01:36.671)
Do you think the V2s are going to come out with, cause I'm sure there's a lot of people asking, some D power more so with kind of like a kite bar or hooking in stuff with kind of a little bit more kite-like, or do you think they're going to continue on this more trend towards simplicity, more downwind style?

Daniel Paronetto (01:01:50.422)
Mmm.

Daniel Paronetto (01:01:58.529)
Yeah, look, I think the evolution now will start to branch out a little bit. I see like a really good space for people who just wanted to like a pair of wing for downwinding for the power wing to have the thinnest materials, the least amount of bridles, you know, the smallest bar, but it doesn't really fly that well. You know, you can't have all the aspects of a high performing power wing. It's going to be a compromise here and there.

Luc Moore (01:02:11.191)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (01:02:27.67)
But if I'm just downwinding with it, I don't care how it flies upwind. I don't care how stable it is. Like if I can get up and it will shoot me into a bump, great. Right. So there's like that area where it could be super thin, super light, super minimal. for people who want to go and do like a session. you're, you know, going out spot a coming back to spot eight, but you want to go upwind and come downwind possibly something that's a little bit more high aspect.

Luc Moore (01:02:31.831)
Yeah, exactly.

Luc Moore (01:02:38.7)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (01:02:57.558)
that'll have a better angle up wind will be more appropriate for that. But it's going to be a little bit more cumbersome to maybe stow because it's a bigger, longer, you know, canopy there in front of you. And then look, I'm sure there'll be racing, you know, this is going to go into racing, double skin, people going 50K an hour on this thing will happen pretty quickly. Freestyle, like you see what the guys from Ences are doing, like backflips, like

Luc Moore (01:03:25.889)
Yeah, insane.

Daniel Paronetto (01:03:27.116)
They're probably doing mobs already and we don't even know about it, like handle passes and all that stuff. It will happen. And I think there will be a different kind of paralleling for that that might have that hooking, unhooking thing, like a kite. I don't know. So yeah, with regards to the D power, it's weird because you have to kind of put together two different products, like it's a kite.

Luc Moore (01:03:30.733)
Yeah. yeah.

Luc Moore (01:03:41.067)
Hmm. Yeah, maybe.

Daniel Paronetto (01:03:54.625)
where you do depower and you release those rear lines to let the air go through the kite a little bit more. But then you have to think as a paraglider where the rear lines are the brakes and you kind of ride the brakes a little bit for stability. So you can't just let go. And some of the pair wings have that ability for you just to let go of the rear lines and it'll fly, right? And that's a certain characteristic that will make the pair wing a certain shape.

Luc Moore (01:04:06.765)
you

Daniel Paronetto (01:04:22.39)
and a certain size on the leading edge. has to have maybe a little bit of a thicker leading edge for it to be able to do that. And if you don't have that, it'll have a little bit less stability, a little bit less deep power, better, you know, stowing, better stashing like ability. So it'll be, it'll be interesting what the brands come up with. see definitely different disciplines, like already having different pair of wings for and different, different, different features or needs.

Luc Moore (01:04:52.012)
Yeah, different applications based on where you're living, what you want to do. Yeah. Well, hey, thanks, man. It's been a fun little venture into pairwing. Let's talk a bit about Foil Rat. What's your goal or mission behind your Instagram channel?

Daniel Paronetto (01:05:10.37)
With the Instagram, I just didn't want to post my stuff in my personal Instagram because it's like people would be like, God, stop talking about foiling. So then I started the foil rat thing on Insta. But I think, you know, starting the YouTube to me was like the different thing this year. And when I started doing sup down winding, I was like, I'm going to record every session from start to finish because I can't see anybody posting something that is like the journey, you know, like

Luc Moore (01:05:17.932)
Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (01:05:40.481)
really sucking at it first and going from there. And I filmed like my first 10 sessions and I never posted anything about it. Like I have all the files, I have all the videos. I just didn't have time. Like I was in part of my life that I didn't have time to do the editing and all that stuff. And then when the Parawin came out, it was kind of the same problem. I was like, where's information about this? Where can I find more? Where can I learn who's doing it? And I found very little. So.

I just said, look, I'm going to start filming. have my first session up on YouTube, like from my first session up to my six, seven session, I kind of work, I was counting them. And then I just stopped and like, this is kind of what to expect those first few sessions. Really raw, like it's not glossy stuff. It's just like very little editing, 20 minute videos, God knows who's watching them. But I'm like, just put it out there. Cause if you're learning,

It's helpful if there was something like that and I was learning, I would have watched it. so then I did that. And then later on, I had access to these different wings and power wings. was just, I just wanted to experience them all. So I started posting a little bit more of those reviews. And I think the reviews we mentioned on this, like, I don't like comparing them and I, it's inevitable to compare them when you're doing a review. so I think it's, it's again, worthy saying that all these power wings are very capable. They all work.

Luc Moore (01:06:56.949)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (01:07:03.574)
They have strengths and weaknesses. And I want to get away from the comparison because I don't want to say that one's better than the other. One brand is better. Like they all are freaking awesome. And again, props to all of these brands developing it. I want to get into tutorials about like techniques, know, how to, how to do attack, how to do a jive, how to do, how to stow, like how I stow like, and by doing that, of course you gave me that information, but I get so much information back as well.

Luc Moore (01:07:14.251)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Paronetto (01:07:33.047)
people send me stuff saying like, I'm trying this, like check this out, this is working for me. So to me, it's a learning tool. I'm doing it to obviously share information, help people out, but I get so much out of it as well. People getting in touch, like, you know, this conversation right now. And I ultimately wanna like start talking to brands. I have so much ideas of what to do with Parawings. And I'm like, God, I wanna own an outlet for it. So.

Luc Moore (01:07:33.503)
Mm-hmm.

Luc Moore (01:07:58.89)
Yeah.

Daniel Paronetto (01:08:00.067)
As a frustrated industrial designer, that's what my bachelor degree is in, and having very little chance to work on that. I would love to get into that. So that's another thing on its own. But yeah, just learning, making sure that I have information and people have information, I think it's been awesome.

Luc Moore (01:08:20.84)
nice man. Yeah. So it is at foil rat vids on YouTube. And what's your Instagram handle?

Daniel Paronetto (01:08:30.697)
Just foil,

Luc Moore (01:08:32.52)
All right, cool. Nice little logo there. Who designed that little picture for you?

Daniel Paronetto (01:08:37.327)
I guess it was something I vectorized from an image online. I just traced over it and chucked some years and it's a freaky little rat.

Luc Moore (01:08:47.242)
Yeah, exactly. All right, hey man, thanks for coming on. Thanks for the chat. Hope you had a good time.

Daniel Paronetto (01:08:55.986)
I did, man. Thanks again for the invite and thanks for putting this information out there, man. think 2025 is the year of the parowing.

Luc Moore (01:09:03.412)
That's it, get one, go get one. Doesn't matter what. All right, brother, we'll talk soon and bye everybody.