Wing Life Show #3 - Wing Foil Safety and Wind Basics

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Wing Life Podcast where we talk about Wing Foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Hi, welcome back guys. I'm Stock to have you joining us again for another episode today. We are going to talk something very important.

[00:00:23] How to go out there and be safe. So let's get into it. Thanks guys for joining. If anybody knows me, I should probably leave because I'm right out of the same spot. Here I got a good entry point to this.

[00:00:39] I was given my mom a lesson on the lake. I don't think of her. I had one leash to my board, right? And I'm like, you know what, mom, don't worry about it. You can have my leash. We're at about 13 knots. There's no chance of anything happening.

[00:00:52] So I go, I'm tacking, I'm tacking, I get up, whatever. I happen to fall and what happens the classic. My wing flips. I get caught on the trailing edge. So away from my wing, I'm all buckled in there. I can't move. It pushes my board away.

[00:01:08] By the time I get to catch my board, it's another foot and it's like a slow motion action movie. And sure enough, it made its way down to the lake. Thank God we didn't have an outflow. It's stuck in a sandbar. But there is safety.

[00:01:27] So you never know what's going to happen when it's going to happen. So what if you guys seen as the most basic fundamentals that we should all abide by? This is a big one. So here's what I'd say.

[00:01:40] I'd say first off, when you get into this awesome sport, I would say, you know, we've highlighted this many times. But you know, speak to your local, speak to your local shops, get knowledgeable.

[00:01:52] But when you're ready to rock and roll, it's not going to hurt to even know you may not look cool. You may lose some friends, whatever maybe, to have whether it's tights or a wed suit

[00:02:04] or booties because you are in time climbing up on the board a lot and kind of rubbing your knees and knee pads and that kind of stuff like don't be afraid to just like, it's okay if you use it. I wish I did in the beginning.

[00:02:19] I'm sure when I gave him his setup when I didn't even know who going to as I just gave my stuff and he was all bloody and people are sending me videos of him. All bloody up, and he was learning.

[00:02:29] But I would say, look, it's not going to hurt anything to throw on some gear impact vest. Highly recommend to helmet at the beginning. It's not going to hurt anything. All that is good safety precautions that honestly, I think everybody should.

[00:02:44] I mean, we always fall back on and I'm just going to say this because there's a lot of supports out there that you do and when something bad happens are like, I didn't know

[00:02:53] I could do this and it's like, well, you can literally stand up and fall and hit your head and hopefully that doesn't matter how happen to anybody. But I'm just saying, we can have any potential side effect of anything else that you can have bad happen.

[00:03:08] So take whatever precaution you feel comfortable with whether it's a helmet, whether it's a mouth guard, whatever feel comfortable with. I would just say that I think the biggest things I see are people chafing up there.

[00:03:21] They're knees in their feet and I'd say the number one tip that I would just highlight in the very beginning here, including tapping into the safety is take breaks like literally when you're learning take breaks.

[00:03:35] Take a break, take some water because you're so amp to learn it that you don't take a break. I'm not going to take a break, I'm going to get this and usually leads to more better.

[00:03:46] I think there is also you are so into it, you're in the fight and you feel like you are getting closer, but as you get tired, you're going to make more mistakes.

[00:03:54] So sometimes we feel like, I'm so close, I'm going to go again, I'm going to go again. But there is another day and so just you are in it for the long run. But yeah, for sure, I mean, helmet impact vest.

[00:04:10] I feel like the most like dangerous part when you take a fall is because the foil is lifting and when you are not used to it at the beginning is you kind of fall sideways, you hit the rail or you hit the foil, that's the most dangerous.

[00:04:32] So impact vest, often you're going to fall on your ribs if you fall on the rail, impact vest 100% helmet and then yeah, like when I started, I had my knees or bloody, I had

[00:04:46] the top of my feet or bloody because you spend so much time on your knees and that deckpad is grippy so you don't slide but it's also taking your skin off sometimes you spend too much time on it moving around. So that's definitely important point.

[00:05:06] I've seen some people that like like to have gloves just because of the wing handling and their fingers rubbing and as you get more experience, you're going to be more efficient with it but again at first you are just gripping everything so hard and fighting it.

[00:05:23] So that's when you need the most protective equipment and then slowly as you get more comfortable and you get used to it, you're going to be able to remove the knee pads because you're not spending as much time on your knees, remove the glove.

[00:05:36] And it's a valid point about booties as well because if your brand new coming into win sports and water sports every single beach is different, some will have clams, some will have razors,

[00:05:50] some will have big boulder, some you have like algae built on and if you're getting in and out based on whether or not you're going to have any short break or any current.

[00:06:00] A pair of booties is always a really, really good place to start because then at least you're going to be you can get in and in the water a little bit faster without that if you're going

[00:06:12] to crawl on something and you've got to figure all these techniques if you happen to be in areas with reefs like it's you don't want to get an urchin like I got two weeks ago and that was

[00:06:23] definitely definitely something that you got to be careful about and you don't really think about it until you get put into that position. Well, with the booties like you know I've you

[00:06:34] spent some time like riding like winter riding when you need like you know 8 mm booties if you want your feet to be like still warm and it's so hard to ride with thick booties when you cannot

[00:06:45] feel the burn. So also in annoying for beginners you know if it's not that cold you don't have to go extreme and where buddies that are like they have a sword that's too thick otherwise you have

[00:07:03] you know how time feeling your burn and feeling where your feet are on the burn so yes you want to protect you know your your feet but don't like numb them. Yes very good point you can

[00:07:15] get some really good summer booties or even winter surf booties that I've seen that have very, very thin bottoms yes they might wear it a little bit faster but you're getting some of that

[00:07:26] protection so that's something that I've seen. Yeah I would say another super key point that we always forget about that everybody forgets about is when you go and you've been trying a few times

[00:07:41] make sure that you take all your leashes that you have and know how they work, know how I would take my leash off my board or my wing or you know if something goes wrong like what do I do think about it

[00:07:55] and and think about these because you never use them until you need to use them and when you need to use them you need to know how to react and if you've never done it you don't know how to react

[00:08:07] and so it's really good to just take one time and and you should do this throughout your career of playing with wings and foiling or anything you do is just make sure you try and understand how they work

[00:08:20] how a leash, how do I detach myself from my wing to maybe my wrist leash or to maybe my waist leash and the only reason I say it is there's scenarios for instance let's just say I crash

[00:08:34] and I happen to drag myself around a buoy and now my leash is tied to the buoy the wings trying to fly away and it starts pulling me underwater maybe and I'm now drowning and I need to get done

[00:08:44] that's a super extreme and I'm just painting a picture but in theory things do happen and when they happen quick and you don't know and it happens to the most experience you just want to make

[00:08:55] sure you know or you have a solution so if you if you kind of go through a few scenarios to just know what I would do it's really good to do in the beginning and have an understanding of it because

[00:09:06] you know some of the most experienced people in most sports usually have a setback and that setback is because when it happens it happens quick and you have to make a quick decision and if you never

[00:09:16] activated your safe fees or you never know you may delay and that delay may be a challenge yeah a few weeks ago I was in Guadalupe and we were like shooting some winging

[00:09:29] it was kind of like offshore wind really nice looking waves and the waves were like out there outside the reef and it was like a small pass to like access you know the outside and

[00:09:41] anyway coming back the wind was in the way that I was kind of like difficult to get back through the pass and I hit the the reef and so fell the reef was really shallow and my leash

[00:09:56] but I got stuck on the reef so I was like stuck on the reef and the waves were like breaking so I had to remove my bird leash and to get away because I was like just like stuck I couldn't do anything

[00:10:11] so you know knowing you know how to like operate in in a way that when it's going to happen you're not going to be in the most like ideal conditions you know you might be like kind of like

[00:10:25] under what you're being pulled so you have that like any amount of like urgency and you need to act quick you don't have to like time to like figure out how this works and for sure as I see a lot of

[00:10:39] people in lessons you know when we are done okay you know yet just take your your bird leash off I'm going to you know carry your bird and it takes them like a minute to figure out how to remove

[00:10:49] the bird leash and so getting familiar with like you know how you know where your leash is and and how you can remove it quickly hopefully you don't have to but you know have you guys seen any kind

[00:11:03] of top favorites for how boards and wings get attached to them is there something you guys have seen? Yeah I mean you know that's kind of like a tricky like thing and I don't know if there is like

[00:11:16] a best way I feel like that's like a lot of like personal preference you know you want like a leash, a waist leash you want your wing you know like for uh for teaching I find that

[00:11:32] I like to keep people have like a wrist leash and an ankle leash, a wrist leash for the wing ankle leash for the the burn that keeps the leash away from each other kind of like they don't get

[00:11:44] wrapped up as much I found that like if I put them on like a waist leash for the wing there's more chance that it's going to cross at some point but again I feel like there is not like a

[00:12:02] clear rule of like one setup is better than the other I think you know if you talk to your local guys I'm sure everybody has a different setup and they're going to be like this is the best setup

[00:12:13] so it's like you know try it see what works for you but I like to keep it simple and I say like you know for beginners that was wrist leash for your wing and ankle leash for your burn for the burn

[00:12:28] I like to have a coil leash so it's not too long and it doesn't go as much getting caught on your foil so yeah coil coilish for the burn is is helpful valid points and especially with your

[00:12:45] board if it is a coil what I found is I think last week I was doing a big downwinder and I always put my hands up in front of me whenever I fall but we can go into fall techniques because there's a whole

[00:12:56] series of techniques of how to fall properly and this like little skating rank and stuff it's insane because I've seen some people when they fall they kick their board or they put all their pressure on their heels but anyways in this particular safety series and safety question

[00:13:12] I was like ah I don't need to put my hands up this time I'm perfectly okay the boards way far from me first time I've ever got hit in the top of it by the nose of the board got my bucket on got my

[00:13:24] vest on but then it's like track bam and I was like oh wow if that hit hit me somewhere else I'm able by myself ish I have people around me but still like it's very difficult to see

[00:13:37] somebody's position in the water so it's like okay so like one technique for safety as well that's stemming a little bit off of the equipment but just make sure to protect your

[00:13:46] your face and your head because you don't know where the board is or the leash is or any obstacles are there's plenty of people out there winging with hockey masks on guard stuff just kidding I think

[00:14:01] I personally think that look you know it's kind of a situational awareness and I think when you're learning something you're going to have falls you're going to have these these the goal is

[00:14:12] amiticated or put it at the least amount possible to have these scenarios and I would say what I would say that usually leads to a lot of these is and I would just say let's help mitigate it

[00:14:26] so when you're out there if you're feeling like you're getting overpowered or you're feeling like the winds picking up or you're feeling like you're uncomfortable all these are signs that yeah

[00:14:37] you should go in it's hard again tomorrow because what happens I do see a lot with safety in this sport is people just keep going I'm going to learn it I'm going to keep going today like the waves

[00:14:49] are building I don't like waves but I'm out here this is my day like and they keep pushing and I would say you know those are those those are taking your safety precautions and they're going lower and lower

[00:15:03] and lower so your your potential of injuries or potential of step-ax could go much higher faster so be aware of usually your your your common sense tells you pretty quick like hey I'm not

[00:15:16] comfortable with windy whoa it's just black cloud well it's snow and I don't know those are signs that like you should listen to yeah I mean it's kind of like that feel of missing out you see

[00:15:30] everybody's out like the good guys are having a great time and you are like you know I don't want to miss out on that I want to be too but you know you always have to for sure like check like

[00:15:39] you know do you feel comfortable and if you don't that's definitely a good sign that like okay you know let's let's really think about this and and that makes me think also just like kind of like

[00:15:51] you know understanding the weather maybe you need to have like a weather app or something so you know where you are getting into because conditions can change you know quickly hopefully if you have

[00:16:03] beginner you know you are not like way out there but just knowing like you know if you are on the day where the wind is supposed to switch like one alien that you are not like out there when all

[00:16:14] of a sudden it's like offshore and now you are like struggling to come back so before you go on your session safety equipment is also you know making sure you are like checking the forecast and you know

[00:16:26] what what what is going to happen out there community based when checking I think is always a super good idea because there will be some people that have taking that learning to another level

[00:16:38] where they can figure out high pressure and low pressure systems and why is there wind today? What's going to happen like I've seen one situation in the like a town of Toronto where

[00:16:50] we were writing in another area and a lot of people knew there was this big squal system coming through but some people didn't know so they got caught in it so one of the first things I think safety

[00:17:03] wise as well is what does the water look like? What does 10 knots look like? What does 20 knots look like? What's a squal? What's this great line coming towards me and it just keeps cranking like

[00:17:16] this stuff like none of us knew at least from coming from a non-windsport and but I think that's something that you can really fall in love with you can sit on the shore and you can get a

[00:17:26] little application for your phone with a little winter bind and just put it up and see if you can guess how strong the wind is. Does this feel like 10 knots? Does it feel like 20? And with it shifting

[00:17:37] you can start to put it in relation to a compass like as it come from the north as it coming from the south like why is it changing? I think these sports because we're out there kind of like with friends

[00:17:50] but you still have to take a great element of safety onto your shoulders so something happens like yes there's the Coast Guard yes you're your friends to tell you to shore this is worst case

[00:18:01] scenarios but I think taking on that responsibility to learn a bit more I think is a pretty good idea. Yeah I think I mean I think that's what makes these sports so special too is your you get

[00:18:13] you're not just going to the gym in like 20 pounds of 20 pounds in the same place as 20 pounds over there to the same same weight you don't really have weather conditions it's not raining in the gym so

[00:18:24] it's you know so so the same and I would say with these type of sports there's elements that are a little bit of more risk here unknown but I would say a general rule of thumb there's a million

[00:18:38] apps out there I would say I use and I'm just I'm not plugging this I'm just saying I use I kite but I would recommend a few things for people that is talk to your locals watch with the locals

[00:18:48] are doing if they're all getting off the water there's a reason and then the other one is visual video so like live videos live videos of this feature live videos off this hotel you can

[00:18:59] visually see what the ocean is doing what the conditions are so you visually see what's happening and then and then it app to know the wind or weather and just take a look to see if on the radar

[00:19:10] what's coming on the radar to know the radar everything's moving in the directions coming at us so that's going to be here and so and so forth time and knowing your conditions is super important

[00:19:22] so safety you know one of one I would say Gwen said that I think and that's in the very beginning is before you go on your day I know is there a front coming is there something that's going

[00:19:32] to change or is it going to be all day this perfect wind but know that that's part of that whole adventure into learning that day but super important to make sure and I totally shout out

[00:19:45] to all you guys and say Gwen what's your top things you use for weather and and Luke same thing because I think all this helps people I never I use iKites or if I think it's great

[00:19:55] and then I just use like marine forecast like NOAA to just see what's going on with the ocean and then I always look at live camps that's what I do yeah I think I think it depends on like

[00:20:05] your area like I also use iKites because it works really well for us but depending on which country you are in like you know all of that is going to change but also you know have a plan

[00:20:18] like don't just go out and figure out you know have to have to like come up with a plan while you are out there knowing you know your spot and it can happen that sometimes okay you know

[00:20:33] the wind dies and okay what's my plan you know can I exit somewhere else that would be save me two hours swim back you know it's going to make you more confident if you know you have

[00:20:49] options out there when something happens that if you just haven't even think about that something could go wrong and then you are out there and then you didn't think about the plans

[00:21:02] and you are thinking my only option is to go back there and I can't so now I'm like freaking out so if you are in this situation you know I can't get back to the spot where I started okay

[00:21:15] noris I had this plan if I can make it back I could go here yeah I'm gonna drop my gear here and walk back or I'm gonna you know give a call or whatever but you know have a plan before you go out

[00:21:28] of what could happen and it's gonna be okay often we get maybe scared that like if we can't get back to where we started it's kind of like you know Emma and John scene now you know there

[00:21:40] is all the options that you know you can consider I was just gonna say that we should shout out Zane Shwaiturk because he he assessment shows up at a spot, assess the location, assess that day, assess

[00:21:52] everything safety where am I going to be you know my safety to get out here the win the conditions look at your situational awareness and know what I think Zane mentioned that a lot

[00:22:06] I think that's a lot of things that we start to take for granted but every time we go to a new spot there's like a series of questions you just ask everybody at the start my brother and I would go

[00:22:16] and we're going to this new location it's like wow there's nobody here this is gonna be sick and you're like why isn't there anybody here is there an undertow is there a rapids is there a

[00:22:26] damn and you're like nah are there boats but I think it's a very valid point from the both of you ask questions to the local people maybe there's a big rock in the center with a lot of these areas

[00:22:37] and your foils gonna hit it and then you don't know how you're gonna fall or maybe there's a bit of a reef there and you can get caught on it practice on land put your safety's on take your

[00:22:46] safety's off figure out what's the best make sure that when you fall you are gonna protect something because you do have a bit of a foil there that could be sharp all very very valid points

[00:22:57] and I think it's the immersion that makes the most sense out of this like just a nurse yourself and delirning as much as you can it's like learning a new language yes this is a hard language it sounds like gibberish

[00:23:10] things are gonna happen you know but you know if I think if you if you you know take precautions like you're gonna limit the risk the risk is always there you know you might be you know you might

[00:23:19] wear like everything or your helmet your impact vest your body is you have like extra everything and then the foil is gonna hit you exactly the spot that is not covered that's spall of it you know

[00:23:31] but at least you took the precaution to like limit the risk and if you do that you know most likely you know you you're gonna be fine so just turn this use a eye you stay in the wing you don't have to wing

[00:23:51] we actually never all of us have never done it that's just really good a. Alright so we've gone over the kind of basics of maybe wind strength to start off

[00:24:01] there can what are the best conditions that you guys have seen to go out in by conditions I mean wind direction on shore side shore side off offshore what if I'm learning what is all that stuff mean and what is it relate to me and my safety.

[00:24:20] I would say in general I would say actually all conditions can work depending on everybody's location right now that that's a that's a hot that's a that's a loaded loaded explanation because you know maybe I can ride straight offshore because I have 300 yards of perfectly knee deep or

[00:24:41] you know just foil deep enough water and I can walk back but I would say you know in general I would say the safest thing you can do is is do side winds or or sideways to your beach so that

[00:24:57] you can go and come in at any given time at one side or direction versus on shore can be a lot harder because it's pushing you on shore offshore is beautiful usually calmer looks less windy usually less wavy but again you know do can you come back

[00:25:17] but I would say in general it's a side shore is usually the safest in general. Yeah and probably 15 not I think is probably the most ideal conditions. You know past 20 it gets you know maybe harder and then and then under 10 it's it you just don't

[00:25:42] have quite enough wind so 15 I feel like would be your sweet spot if you can find that. But I would say go ahead and would say this and both of you guys would say this if it's blowing 10

[00:25:54] and you can stand on that board and you can get on the water and moat the lawn and learn it's got to help you promise just more time you can put that wing in your hands a more time you can

[00:26:05] you can try this sport the more times you can do the walker shame you're learning something. Yeah taxing actually really really good point and learning how to bob on that board can let's say the wind does shut off talking about different kind of fronts or something coming out

[00:26:22] and then if you haven't spent a lot of time let's say on your knees or even trying to stand up in marginal conditions then it goes from a very safe situation to a more hazardous situation.

[00:26:35] Pretty quickly and there's nothing wrong with going out in eight knots or 10 knots and trying to practice standing up just like just the basics and then you at least understand what happens if my wing blows up how do I swim back like can I paddle that long?

[00:26:53] What happens if the wind does? How do I wrap this wing into my feet for example to swim back? What happens if I lose my board? All of those points I think are valid have there been any tips

[00:27:06] that you guys have seen that have been the best. Do you practice full deflates just in the situation like that? Now lessen hasn't been something that people should do at home?

[00:27:16] I would say don't rush into deflating your wing because it would be a bummer if like you deflate your wing and then five minutes later the wing picks up again but now you can't blow it up.

[00:27:27] So I would say deflating your wing might be your last result but you know just like learning how to swim with your wing inflated like you lay on your

[00:27:39] board like a surfboard your wing is behind you and you put your feet on the leading edge to hold your wing and we have a video on how to body drag back to your board using your wing. It's a very simple

[00:27:54] technique where your leading edge is on the water pointed to a kind of downwind and you just hold the back handle and that's going to help you drag you downwind so with your

[00:28:08] other hand you can just like help and swim. You can watch what's that video to learn how to do. It's very very simple technique and maybe practice it before you need it that way you know that

[00:28:23] you can do it but again for sure like try not to put yourself in a position where you went so far out something happened and now all of the options become more complicated.

[00:28:41] So just play it safe you don't need to go super far out too learn or to have fun you can get right there close enough to show that you can swim and just a general role is don't go

[00:28:56] fail and you know what you don't feel comfortable swimming. I would capitalize real quick on that and say there's a valid point that needs to be said that people forget about and that is

[00:29:06] when your first learning and you're going through this whole operation of picking my safety zone and assessing everything and maybe I'm right foot dominant or left foot dominant but I maybe

[00:29:19] one way really dominant usually people are. So I may go out to my left and I'm pretty good to my left and I'm like yeah I'll just turn around to do the same thing the other direction. No that

[00:29:31] maybe that is not going to be as easy as that direction that you just went so in the beginning make sure to stay close where it's distance of swimming or walking to to comfortable because other direction maybe more that's huge because that's pretty natural actually like anybody who's

[00:29:47] done snowboarding or any kind of their either yeah left or I would say so yeah definitely or even on the beach right like even on the beach like there's one you're holding the wing with

[00:29:59] your left hand forward or right hand forward there's one dominant kind of zone yeah that's huge actually and we forget about that and we see a lot because people are getting it on their good way I'm

[00:30:10] getting it I'm almost there I'm almost falling and then they're like 50 miles out and then they turn around they can't even hold the wing yes and I think like we're highlighting these points right now and I think those of you listening or watching might think that some of

[00:30:23] this stuff is extremely basic but I'm telling you when you get out there and your brand new and you're so focused on it all we're trying to do is kind of slowly bring all of these points into

[00:30:34] your consciousness so these are things that might not be apparent at the start because when you're out there your mind goes blank if you get a little scared because you fell and you don't

[00:30:44] know if there's big fish in the area everything else goes blank so by talking about this stuff and slowly adding your little like pre-safety checklist almost like an airplane does before they

[00:30:54] take off I'm sure those pilots don't like going over absolutely everything but at the start I think it'll become much a lot easier later on but I think these are pretty much other any other safety

[00:31:07] points that you guys have seen or you would recommend for somebody brand new. I was just gonna say you could download the wing life podcast is 199 safety checks that you have to do before you go wing for like it's it's linking the description only 199 takes

[00:31:23] about 15 hours before you start and then you're good to go. Well the other thing is you know and that applies to many things you know um outdoor everything but just you know try not to go out on your own you know if you can have a friend

[00:31:39] you know make sure somebody knows you are here somebody's with you maybe that's definitely you know I idea. Yes let's let somebody know where you're going let them maybe know the anticipated

[00:31:50] time watches are always a good idea right like Apple Watch or other watch where you can have some communication or at least have GPS or something on there it's always a good idea and then make sure

[00:32:00] you check and tides especially because tides could have a big impact like if it's switching from a high tide to a and the tide is kind of sweeping out or if you have a lot of current.

[00:32:09] I think everybody in your local community will be able to tell you where there's a safe spot to learn and where this is medium advanced intermediate and don't be afraid to put

[00:32:19] in the time I think is what we're all trying to say here and try to enjoy that time because you might reach 10, 15 years into your journey where you've kind of hit a bit of a ceiling plateau

[00:32:30] and surpassing that will require x amount of skills that could take a long time and maybe you don't have that time to do it safely so I think enjoying the process is huge. Yeah I would say

[00:32:40] Luke you tapped on a big one but um you don't know when and I've said this in this podcast but you know things do happen out there all the time when you start learning stuff and I'd say

[00:32:53] to the Apple Watch we have our dear friend of the legend Harry he actually had a situation where he needed to use his watch and and that's what saved him and it can be a normal day, it can be

[00:33:09] anything and I always good even you know somebody listening to this it's like this is in for a beginner and this is for everyone because there are all these reality checks that we even

[00:33:21] sometimes maybe don't think about and their reality checks to remember for every session to be better to be safer to you know help somebody else but it's important to remember that because

[00:33:32] I truly think that um you know there are perfect scenario was he had a situation and he needed it and that's what what helped him be here today so. Alright guys good points and thanks everybody

[00:33:46] for joining us on episode number three guys what do you want to talk about in episode number four. We want to see everybody so we are getting clips sent in and we're going to start break

[00:33:58] in down as we start we started this general conception of the start of wing-fling and we're going to get more and more into diving into people's hopefully your challenging mistake that you're

[00:34:11] making or problem that you're trying to overcome because we want to dive into it we want to dissect it hopefully give you the tips and tricks to help you in that little hurdle and then on to the

[00:34:21] next one. Alright everybody thanks for joining us in episode three and we're looking forward to the next one.