Wing Life Show Episode #9 - Gybing Basics

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Alright, thanks so much for joining us. Today we have a very exciting episode where we're going to talk about one of the biggest

[00:00:25] challenges that you're going to face after being able to foil, turning around, gybing. It comes with a lot of challenges that actually all happen at once and you kind of like have to overcome so many aspects that are coming together.

[00:00:43] So buckle up, this one is going to take about three hours. Get ready to jab. I hope you are ready. It's a really difficult process. It's insanely difficult. It's because you have to actually glide a little bit if you're flying.

[00:01:02] We did recommend last time that you do the touchdown because touchdown is a bit safer, but it's the first time you might glide without using some power in your wing and then you got to figure out when do I flip the wing if we make it that far.

[00:01:15] I'd say man, if you made it this far, you could sell your gear, call it done, I mean you're foiled. Tell all your friends I wing foiled. Or get ready for the next big challenging adventure that keeps you going for a long time.

[00:01:35] Yes, so what were the first things I guess, first recommendations, first steps that you've seen? Even taking yourself back. First, I would say I think it's important to have put in quite a bit of time before you get to this point.

[00:01:54] That way you are very comfortable foiling both ways. You have no problem with that. You can stay upwind and now you are ready to attempt the jib. If you still can't jib one way, if you still have a hard time staying upwind,

[00:02:14] I would say keep that jib for a bit later. Because the thing about jibing is there are so many moving parts that you have to handle. There is the wing switch of your hands. When do you do it? There is the shift of edge.

[00:02:36] There is riding in a new way where it's backward in your brain. Your front foot is now your back foot. Now you have to get used to that where forward and back, how you would manage how high you are, now it's all reversed.

[00:02:55] Now you were used to for a long time if you made it this far, you've put in quite some time on foil, wing foiling. You are used to leaning back against your wing. You are still going to be leaning back, but now not on your heel.

[00:03:10] You are going to be on your toes, which is a new feeling. When you combine all of that, you have to overcome a lot of new situations. There are a lot of mistakes that are linked with all of that that can make you can't really jib.

[00:03:26] So step one I think is understanding that there is a shift of edge. You basically went from your heels, now you are going to go to your toes and you have to stay there to have a turn.

[00:03:44] If one of the most common mistakes is you go to your toes, you engage the turn halfway through, that's when you have to like somewhere, halfway you have to switch your hands, your brain gets confused, you forget to keep your toe side edge.

[00:04:03] Now you are back on your heel, your body is going the other way, but now your hands are switched already and now everything is wrong. You're not going to get the jive without falling. You're going to have to fall and you're going to have to make the mistakes,

[00:04:22] but slowly you are going to be able to make it further along in the process. I'm not going to go through the entire process, but if somebody wants to add something to that. I'd say hopefully that helped you. We're done for the day. We're done?

[00:04:37] We're going to Tim Hortons. Let's break it down to that first part of the jive. How do you engage the jive? First and foremost, I would start with walk through this on the beach. Take your wing, walk through what you're going to do with your hands

[00:04:54] so it becomes repetition. So at least you know because you can stand on the beach, I can go through it, I can understand where to put the wing, what's going to happen. That's so key because then you're going to eliminate the struggle on the water.

[00:05:07] You're still going to have a struggle in the water, but it's going to be a lot easier because you're not thinking about the wing because you already know at least the movements of what I'm supposed to do with the wing.

[00:05:16] So that would be number one for me would be, man, do it a lot both directions, not just one, both directions, both directions, both directions. Get it to where you're really comfortable with how you maneuver that wing

[00:05:27] and what you're looking to learn on the beach is to do the maneuver with the wing more above your head, but I would say learn how to get power in it, lose power in it, and understand how that works. You'll understand that when you go to the beach

[00:05:45] and you start to play with that turn where I grab too much and it yanks me. Now just put yourself on a foil, you're likely going to crash at that moment. So understand how I can do these movements with no power in it,

[00:05:59] gain a little power in it, and then you're going to have that knowledge to know that if I'm going through those foot placements on the water, I can gain or lose power. That would be first step for me with the wing.

[00:06:12] And then you got, am I entering this turn regular footed? Am I entering this turn switch stance? All of those things you can practice on the beach to get used to right like walking switch stance, all those things.

[00:06:27] Now because your first turn, let's say if you come around, you touch down, you turn, you're going to be now riding like we mentioned last time, switch stance, which is a bit awkward. So I guess maybe your first ever job, you would touch down, turn, switch your feet,

[00:06:42] and then try to get back up on foil slowly work. What do you think, Gwen? So first, I think you got to put like the best chances on your side. And we all have a good way and not so good way. Everybody's like is your regular goofy?

[00:06:59] So there is a direction that you feel better and a direction that you don't feel as comfortable. So in my opinion, your first drive should always be going in your right direction, in your good direction, the direction you feel the most comfortable with.

[00:07:19] Leave the other way like don't for until you got the first drive. So to me, it's almost like you work on that drive. So let's say I'm regular. I'm always going to go regular. I'm going to work on that drive.

[00:07:34] And what I'm going to do is once I finally get that drive dialed, now I'm riding to a side and I drive again. So I'm always driving in my good stance. I would say it's not necessary.

[00:07:50] I don't recommend it to work on your drive in your wrong stance. At some point, you can include a foot switch in that process so that you would be able to go from let's say I'm regular, but I'm going the other way. So I'm riding goofy.

[00:08:12] What I'm going to do is I'm going to switch feet to put myself in a regular position and now I'm going to drive. You don't have to, and again, I don't recommend to necessarily learn to drive in your wrong stance.

[00:08:27] You just have to dial it in your right stance. So that's the first thing. And so in that process, one way you're going to always attempt your drive and then the other way to me, you would just put the bone down and then turn around.

[00:08:46] But the thing is you want speed even though when you do a maneuver, sometimes you just want to go slow, but with the gybe, you are going through a phase of when you switch hand, you have no power.

[00:09:03] And so at the beginning, you are not very efficient with that phase. So for quite a while, maybe you don't have power for a few seconds. So if you don't have speed, you won't be able to glide through that phase and you're going to come down.

[00:09:17] So it's important to ride comfortably fast, not out of control fast, but approach your gybe with enough speed so that you are going to make it through that phase where you have no power. The other thing is make sure you keep power in your wing

[00:09:33] as long as possible in the process. Don't ride along as fast as you can and literally let go of your back end and not drive because you've wasted time that you could still have power. I would say the first small bit of your turn,

[00:09:51] you are still pulling on your back end for power. That way you get power in your turn as long as possible before. Now you are going downwind. There is no more power in your wing. That's when you switch hand. And the key there is to keep your pressure,

[00:10:11] toe side pressure so you get to the other side. If during your switch hand you forget to keep pressure on your toe side, easier you go back or you get stuck downwind and now you don't have enough speed, you run out of your glide, you are coming down.

[00:10:29] The, you know, it's important to be consistent with your turn. So you don't want to go too aggressive in your turn. That's harder. So you want to start kind of like wider. But if you go too wide, you might not have enough glide to get through it.

[00:10:46] So you kind of like want to find just the perfect radius so that it's comfortable, it's consistent, but you also can make it through. Often, I would say it also depends on the wind. If you have tons of wind, you can take a really wide turn

[00:11:04] because you have tons of power. No problem. When it's lighter, you can do a super wide turn because you just don't have that much power. Maybe you have a bigger fold that has more drag. It's going to, it's not going to glide as much.

[00:11:17] So in lighter wind, you are going to have to make that turn a tiny bit tighter. So that's the thing. So I'm not going to go too far here. But it's better to make it consistent than to make it like, you know, wide.

[00:11:36] But then I'm realizing it's too wide. So then I'm trying to finish it tight or tight. I can't handle it. So now I'm like straight down wind and then tight again. You want to try to have a really nice curve, consistent, so that everything feels more predictable.

[00:11:51] You always reacting to what's going to happen. If everything is very consistent, you can kind of like know what's going to happen and be ready for it. So one of the, we talked about it before, but one challenge that's linked to driving

[00:12:12] is the fact that you are not used to riding toe side. And so, you know, you went from your heel side, you were riding heel side. You went to your toe side, you engaged your turn, you keep power in your wing.

[00:12:27] You are straight down wind, no more power in your wing. You switch hand. Now you are slightly finding yourself toe side. It's a new situation. And so the key is that you're going to be able to edge again.

[00:12:41] If you can't edge, and that's one of the main problems, once you find yourself toe side, people are going to say, there is no power in my wing. And that's because you are going down wind. Why are you going down wind? It's because you are not edging anymore.

[00:12:56] So you have to keep that toe side pressure so you kind of like almost go, you try to go upwind essentially again on your toe side. That's going to give you power. That's going to give you something to hold onto. And it takes time to build up.

[00:13:15] So I think slowly, little by little, you're going to complete your drive and totally down wind and then a bit less down wind. And then the goal in your mind is almost to get used to it. Should be that when you come out of your drive,

[00:13:31] you should almost try, your goal is to go upwind. If your goal is to go upwind, then you're going to get used to like, I need to edge more. And once you get used to edging more, you find that power in your wing.

[00:13:45] So it's definitely a tricky one and getting used to riding toe side, in my opinion, unfortunately, it's like, you can't get used to riding toe side until you can drive. But not being used to riding toe side is stopping you from driving. So it's like they come together.

[00:14:07] Yeah. Yes, they do. I would say an important point to think about is, I would say going into two things, but I'm going to lead into it with this is, whatever direction you're riding along, your wing is a wing and you have a strut down the center

[00:14:25] and then you have your leading edge. I would always just picture your leading edge if that is pointing directly into the wind. And whatever you do whenever you make these movements, as long as that's directly into the wind,

[00:14:39] that's going to keep the most, we'll call it level wing versus if that starts changing, it's going to change a lot of things. But I guess the reason I'm saying this is because if you can have that wing where it's controlled

[00:14:58] and always in the direction of the wind, the most important thing that you're going to learn is one that's probably not said, maybe it's basic, your hand, when you switch hands, you always switch to where that front leading edge is and not further back.

[00:15:15] Because if I let go of anything in the back, the wing just opens up and it's game over. So it's important to know that if I have it into the wind, leading edge, that strut directly into the wind, that whatever my hand switches are,

[00:15:28] as long as it's in the top part and on that leading, it'll stay dead center right there. But if I were to switch a little lower, it may open up and grab a ton of wind. So it's really important to, when you switch your hands,

[00:15:41] which you're going to have to switch your hands, make sure it's at that where the leading edge meets that strut high on the end. It's important just to note when you do that. But I would say, vaguer picture,

[00:15:55] there's two ways to do this, which we're speaking about both in this, and that is you go into your toe side, which I would say 90% of people from what I gather or see do this. They just end up going toe side.

[00:16:08] And then the next one would be you go toe side, maybe tap the water, put the board down, switch your feet, and then you go back to learning your standard other heel side direction. And I would say those are the first moves that I would make jibing,

[00:16:25] we'll call it, or making your turn. But I would say most people end up always going a toe side, whatever your toe side direction is. And it's important for you to know. And if you don't really know, an easy way to find out is stand straight up

[00:16:38] and have somebody come up behind you and just shove you. And whatever foot goes out and forward is usually the one that's going to be your dominant direction forward. That's usually a way to find out or whatever way you skateboard. And there's people that skateboard, snowboard different directions.

[00:16:52] But I would say if somebody shoves you and your reaction is whatever foot forward goes, that's usually your dominant foot. But leading into this challenging area, I would just say that- What do you do if you fall on your face?

[00:17:06] Well then you're definitely going to be really good at winging. Obviously a lot of this information is vague because we're trying to break it down and give you guys a lot of... There's a lot there. But I would say important points are...

[00:17:24] I mean, Gwen nailed it really, really well. But I would say commit to your turn. Very important. Just commit. You'll be surprised if you commit. Keep the power in the wing, like he said. The other one that happens a lot is everybody when they first go into it,

[00:17:38] they either go super hesitant or they go, I need more speed and go too much and they just breach. It's like one or the other. Usually, and if you're on that, whether you go too slow or too fast, just calm down, try to pick a speed.

[00:17:53] You may be struggling, and this is something that isn't said a lot, but it is a part of it. You may struggle with your jive because maybe I have a super lifty, super slow wing that's very stable.

[00:18:06] Now that becomes tricky because you can't keep speed up through the turn. It just goes and then just drag down. So that becomes trickier. That means you have to roll through this edge pressure on my heel side

[00:18:20] to the toe pressure much quicker because I got to re-engage it. I think the best advice was said in here, in my opinion, spot on. If you can make your turn, whether you're riding that toe side around,

[00:18:35] we'll call it, to engage to go upwind because I promise you, you will never go upwind enough. You just won't. When you're first learning this, you're going to go and you're going to be like, there's no wind, the wind died because you're just going too far downwind.

[00:18:51] Because when you roll over to your toe side, you're not used to that toe side pressure, but it's important to just engage it and try to go super hard. Look at where you're going, see if you can look back to where you were on the

[00:19:04] beach and really angle that way. Then I would say if you come off foil, that can be the time when you're standing there toe side to just switch my feet back to heel side and I can start going in my direction that I once knew.

[00:19:17] That's how you build on this. I would say it's going to be a process of repetition over and over and over and over and over and over and then you'll still be struggling with it. Actually, I had an interesting lesson in that made me realize something.

[00:19:40] We talked about it in the previous episode where we are like, how do you direct yourself? How do you go upwind? How do you go upwind? You edge more. But to edge more, you need to have power in your wing.

[00:19:52] If you depower your wing, you can't edge otherwise you would fall. If you depower your wing, you can't edge. I had this lesson where the student could not go upwind after the drive.

[00:20:13] We found out that in your good direction, I'm riding regular, I have my backhand on the wing. That's the hand I'm pulling with to get power. His brain after the drive kept this hand being like, this is the hand I need to pull to get

[00:20:37] power. He was riding toe side. Now this backhand was now the fronthand. When he would pull in, he's actually pulling the wing flat. Because in his brain, you're kind of confused when everything gets reversed.

[00:20:54] His reaction always after the drive was, I need more power, I'm going to pull. Except now that hand that used to be pulling for power, now is the fronthand which is literally pulling his wing flat. Because he couldn't get power in his wing, he couldn't edge.

[00:21:11] Otherwise, you fall so you don't let yourself do it. You don't want to make yourself fall. As soon as we realized that and he kept his new fronthand open, exposing more of the wing into the wind, now he had more power.

[00:21:32] Now he was able to lean and now he was able to go upwind. I fixed that situation. Now, it doesn't happen to everybody but if you feel like you don't have power after your drive, you probably are going downwind.

[00:21:52] But can you get enough power in your wing so you can edge to go upwind? Then check how you are holding your wing and make sure that you are holding your wing in a way that you are getting power in your wing. Yeah, very good point actually.

[00:22:08] Because it's going to be completely reversed, completely awkward. Do we want to then talk a little bit or do we want to keep it for the next episode about this switch stance stuff? That comes later down the journey. So we want to talk about it next episode?

[00:22:25] I think the switching fit is quite the challenge that deserves its own episode. Its own episode. Alright, Damien take it over then. Do you think what would come next then if we are starting to edge, we are kind of flying in that different direction?

[00:22:38] Any other tips and tricks that you guys have seen to help through this bucking Bronco process? Yeah, I would just say to finish that up, I would say I think we really nailed the reason

[00:22:50] why people go toe side or the reason why they just ride it around the corner is because you don't necessarily have to, there's less movement. Now I got to change my feet and go through all this.

[00:23:08] So in theory, just when you go into these, when you're first attempting them, it's kind of a scary process because you're like, okay, I'm going to like, I'm used to this and now I got to go like this. And there's a lot there.

[00:23:18] You'll see when you get there. It's kind of a little, you're nervous to do it so you go slow or some go fast. I would just say, it's important to keep pressure on your wing. It's important to roll over onto your edge and commit.

[00:23:33] And then when you do get around the corner, it's important to know that likely you're going downwind or likely you're, what Gwen was explaining I think is really important is your front hand, just because your back hand opened and closes, your front hand,

[00:23:51] just because maybe you're sitting comfortable like this could be closed, but it could be open. Know that these things do a lot, whether it's your front or your back hand. And so practice that on the beach because you're going to learn it right away.

[00:24:04] When I turn toe side, what's that like? What's going on and how does that feel? And look at your arms because you're going to learn a lot right there and it's going to help you a ton because if you think you're just going to go right into it

[00:24:16] and learn it on the water, a lot is going to happen quick and you're going to be like, whoa, I don't know what just hit. But I would say, you know, if you're making around that corner, the biggest thing that

[00:24:28] I think would be the helpful tips would be just grab more power than you think. And sometimes that means that when I'm riding toe side, I may actually lengthen my arms out on the handles or the boom because I can get a more leverage on the wing

[00:24:45] than if I'm really close. I may be able to grab more and you can generate more power with the wing by grabbing more. So that's something to think about or to try again, try it on the beach.

[00:24:59] And then I would just say, if you feel really, really awkward riding toe side, that's when we'd maybe go into the next step of switching feet. But I would say in general, I'd say most people end up riding toe side.

[00:25:12] And just know what's beautiful about this is you can totally go into that toe side, ride downwind as long as I get a little bit of pressure in the wing and I'm up on foil. It may not be perfect, but I'm on edge.

[00:25:24] I'm on my toe side edge and I go as much as I can. And when I'm ready, roll right back onto the heel side and I'm back on my comfortable side. And you can play with those.

[00:25:34] So maybe it's a 10 second tack on my heel side and it's a two second tack on my toe and I'm back onto my heel. But it's okay to go through that rolling process to find your comfort. Don't feel like you have to go heel side, toe side forever

[00:25:49] because you can always just play with it. I end up out to sea and I drop in the water, turn my boat around, start the other direction and come back. But it's a baby step way to really start to feel it out.

[00:26:03] The good news is usually once you get that first jive, it's the most difficult part. And once you find yourself riding toe side, going back to heel side is a lot easier because the challenge was to try to figure out how to ride toe side.

[00:26:23] At that stage, you can kind of do it, but not super comfortable. Going back to your heel side feels so much better. It's more natural. So usually, once you get over that challenge of doing your first jive and figuring out how to decently ride toe side,

[00:26:44] the next jive is going to come with less trouble because now you are going back to your stance that feels better. So just spend the time and it's going to come. Know that in light wind, it's going to be more challenging

[00:27:08] because now maybe you are riding with a bigger wing. You can run into the situation where you run into your wing when you go downwind. So that wing is in your way. So light wind with everything is, I feel, a bit more challenging.

[00:27:28] So finding the right just enough wind is ideal. You don't want to go in 40 knots. That's going to be hard too. But have enough wind so that when you switch hand, it gets your wing out of the way, makes it fly. That's going to be an easier situation.

[00:27:48] You will have more speed as well, so easier. But for sure, what you mentioned is a great point of like when you have a foil that's really big and maybe flies really well at slow speed, so that means it has a pretty thick profile,

[00:28:07] that those kind of foils just don't glide very well. As soon as you kill the power, they slow down because they have so much drag. And it is going to be a challenge when you gybe because now you can't make it through that phase

[00:28:22] where you have less power. And I remember that foil I mentioned that I learned foiling on. That was the big spoon, super thick, great for learning. I couldn't gybe on it even though I could gybe on other foils. I took that one.

[00:28:41] And it just never gave me the time to go to the other side without coming down because as soon as you would come down, have less power in your wing, boom, it was like always required power. So that's something. I would say most of the newer foils,

[00:29:02] even the bigger foils are not going to do that. It would be some of the first generation foils that used to be super thick. Those are going to be hard to gybe with. And I think for those only on audio, Damien was mentioning flagging over your head.

[00:29:22] Do you want to take over what were you meaning? Yeah, I was just saying, like Gwen said, when lighter winds, your wing is bigger usually or maybe you have a bigger wing and a lot of times it always ends up in front of you

[00:29:33] or you're going to run into it. And I would say that's where it's really important to learn on the beach and also when you're on the water, to really get that wing above your head. You'll be surprised with how much easier things

[00:29:44] get in winging when you get your wing higher up because you can still generate power with it, but it's also out of your way and I can always bring it in front of me. But it's another thing when it is in front of you

[00:29:58] and now you're backwinding or you're running into it, you're going at it. So just really important to always try to really play with your wing up high. You'll be impressed with how much easier it is to maneuver things with it.

[00:30:11] And then I would just say that, yeah, I mean, I would say an important one to just lastly sort of is the limbo of heel side to toe side. Like just don't spend a long time on like people always will start heel side

[00:30:29] and then when they go to transition, it's like a long flat of like, okay, I'm switching hands. I'm doing all this stuff. Like engage heel side, engage toe side because then you skip the limbo. That limbo generates all sorts of stuff up, back down, side to side.

[00:30:47] Like you kind of get wishy washy. So heel side, toe side, engage. I think you'll see a quicker success rate. And that comes down to what you mentioned earlier, commitment. You kind of like have to commit. If you commit halfway, that's what's going to happen.

[00:31:05] You're going to get into it. You're going to hesitate. That's when you are like flat, go side to side hesitation and then you lost it. So it's not online dating folks. It's back to the old days. Yeah, it's a hard process. No, you're going to struggle,

[00:31:20] but you're going to get it. It's definitely, it's cool. It's super rewarding too, because you're going to start getting glimpses and then you're going to be able to go toe side for a second, glide and quick get back on your heel.

[00:31:35] And you're like, boom, I just did it. I'm like, I'm there. And then it escalates. So it's a really cool process. It's hard, but it's a cool process. All right, fellas. We finally get to talk about foot switches next. All right. Thanks everybody for joining us

[00:31:53] in the next episode of foot switches. So send us your clips, right? Yeah, we want to see it. Send us your clips. We can talk about it and put you on the main stage and do some special episodes with some of our guests.

[00:32:07] So looking forward to seeing you guys soon. And yeah, thanks for joining. Thanks everybody. Thank you guys.